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(s)Elections
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Title: McCain/Palin vs. Obama/Biden - how they compare academically
Source: Various
URL Source: [None]
Published: Aug 31, 2008
Author: Various
Post Date: 2008-08-31 00:08:49 by a vast rightwing conspirator
Keywords: None
Views: 1881
Comments: 109

Palin
- Bachelors of Arts in Sports Journalism from Idaho.

McCain
- Bachelors from Naval Academy rank 5th from the bottom of his class of 800.

Biden
- BA University of Delaware in both History and Political Science.
- Juris Doctor (JD) from Syracuse University College of Law.

Obama
- BA in International Relations form Columbia University.
- Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude from Harvard in 1991. (That’s top of his class at arguably the best school in the country/world.) While at Harvard he was also president of the Harvard Law Review.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 106.

#4. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#0) (Edited)

Harvard was already going downhill in the 1950s.

These days, grade inflation there makes State Universities look tame in comparison.

The Ivy League is not what it once was and Yale Law blows away Harvard Law any day of the week. Even Stanford Law beats it.

BTW, Magna Cum Laude does not mean "top of the class". That would be maxima cum laude. At Harvard, "Magna Cum Laude" means a 3.3 GPA. Top of the class? Not even close.

mirage  posted on  2008-08-31   2:47:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Magna Cum Laude does not mean "top of the class". That would be maxima cum laude. At Harvard, "Magna Cum Laude" means a 3.3 GPA. Top of the class? Not even close.

I made a mistake.

Obama graduated with SUMMA CUM LAUDE at Harvard, not MAGNA.

To recap:

OBAMA: SUMMA CUM LAUDE at HARVARD.

McCain: bottom of class.
Palin: degree in sports journalism with a minor in chocolate chip cookies.

Need we say more?

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-31   13:32:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Need we say more?

Affirmative Action.

Also, per Wikipedia:

He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991

Not summa cum laude as you stated. That means a 3.3-3.5 GPA.

mirage  posted on  2008-08-31   13:41:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991

I believe that this is correct.

Obama graduated as MAGNA CUM LAUDE, not SUMMA CUM LAUDE. The source that cites 'SUMMA' is not as credible as several other sources that mention MAGNA. That's not too bad, when compared with Palin's degree in sports commentary and McCain at the very bottom of his class.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-31   13:55:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

That's not too bad, when compared with Palin's degree in sports commentary and McCain at the very bottom of his class.

So let's stack up your argument here.

Palin got a degree in Sports Journalism, worked as a Sportscaster, and then changed careers. She started in the city council, became mayor, and then became Governor. Sounds like a promotion path to me.

Are you claiming that people are not allowed to change careers or something? I don't understand the argument here. Are people supposed to be locked into a job for life?

McCain did graduate near the bottom of his class, that is not disputed, and he also got into USNA as a legacy admission. This is also not disputed. I'll throw you another bone. A family member of mine was in the same class at USNA with the Senator's father. I met Admiral McCain and he made quite an impression on me. The son is nothing like the father. Admiral McCain was someone who would blow you out of the water just with his presence. The man had it all together - intelligence, poise, stature, bearing - you name it, he had it.

I guess the problem is your issue with Palin who trained for a career she entered and then decided to switch careers. You seem to think that people aren't allowed to change their occupation for some reason. Why is that?

mirage  posted on  2008-08-31   14:03:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I have no problem with McCain's daddy or with Ms. Palin. Well... I do have a problem with Ms. Palin. She is guilty of allowing McCain to turn her into the 'pony' of his dog and pony show. If she had any principles or deeply-held conservative beliefs she threw it all off the window the moment she became McCain's prop.

Now, getting back to the topic of this thread: education-wise, Obama/Biden are showing some serious education credentials. McCain/Palin are not.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-08-31   17:40:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Now, getting back to the topic of this thread: education-wise, Obama/Biden are showing some serious education credentials. McCain/Palin are not.

So let me ask a question - why is this important?

The best IT people I've ever hired came either from no-name Universities or had degrees in liberal arts.

The best tech writer I know has a high school diploma, but he has been at it for more than 30 years and can document anything in such a manner that you will know everything you need to about it quickly.

The single best systems integrator I know has a GED and "some" college, but not even enough to claim two years.

So is education or ability more important?

In the tech industry, I've seen people from Harvard who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag that had in the instructions written on the inside. On the reverse, anyone from Brown seems to be top-notch. I've also seen people coming from working on oil derricks who taught themselves networking at night and could rewire your car in a heartbeat, but no college degree.

The best IT architect I know got a CS degree from U Idaho in Moscow. He got four promotions in three years, setting a new promotion record (breaking mine of four in four years) in the department.

So what's the deal here? Why is it so important? Is education more important than ability? If so, why?

mirage  posted on  2008-09-01   1:22:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So let me ask a question - why is this important?

You are asking why education and academic performance are important?

Hmmm... I don't know. Maybe they aren't but, I believe, we've already established that Palin's advanced degree in photo journalism and McCain's not failing to graduate are way better than a magna cum laude at Harvard. So, education is important.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-09-01   8:06:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

So, education is important.

Now you're heading into an argument my schoolteacher mom uses all the time :)

Bear with me, I'm going to just throw facts here and then ask for your reaction.

Bill Gates dropped out. Was education important?

George W. Bush has a Harvard MBA. How does that education work out for him? Is he a competent manager or not?

Now take a high school kid on a 504 (behavior modification) and an IEP with a 40% modification. That means the kid can blow 40% and still get an "A". Also throw into the IEP that the kid gets 8 hours of individual attention per day AND make him Hispanic so he gets more special programs just to get him through the system because the district is under fire for their Hispanic dropout rate.

The kid then gets a 4.0 but the diploma doesn't say he had a modified plan.

Is that kid any more qualified than Joe Average who got a 3.5 GPA with no help whatsoever?

The point is, these days, with Affirmative Action, legacy admissions, graduation rate goals, modifications, and individual education plans (and yes, you can do 'independent study' at a University; friend of mine did that for 75% of her degree) - educational qualifications become less relevant than talent.

Now, let's look at the business world where to be a manager in most shops, you not only have to have a BS in "something" but also a PMP Certificate.

A PMP Certificate is a "Project Management Professional" certification. I have one of those. You file your resume' saying you've done some number of hours of PM work, read a study guide, take a multiple choice exam, pay your $500, and you get the certificate.

So what does the certificate mean? It means you jumped through hoops and crammed for a multiple-choice exam which you passed with 60%. It doesn't mean you really know how to manage a project. It doesn't mean you're any good at managing projects either.

So, what good are credentials nowadays other than just to show you can jump through hoops?

mirage  posted on  2008-09-01   12:35:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I agree that applying education on dumbasses such as W or McCain is not as good as applying lipstick on a pig's ass.

I understand that Bill Gates and Edison were not well schooled but they are exceptions. I am not suggesting that education is everything but academic achievements could be good indicators of one's intellectual abilities. By no means do they completely measure one's humanity or one's abilities.

I just heard on the news that one of Palin's daughters is in high school, 17 and pregnant. What does this tell you about her parenting skills?

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-09-01   13:41:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I just heard on the news that one of Palin's daughters is in high school, 17 and pregnant. What does this tell you about her parenting skills?

I heard a similar rumor about her latest kid, that her daughter was pregnant for two years and that Palin covered it up.

I did some quick math and determined that it was BS unless an evolutionary leap had been made where human females can gestate for two years instead of the usual nine months.

As for the teenage pregnancy just announced, with the current laws in place, you can't force a kid to do anything anymore. All you can do is tell them what's going on but you can't actually punish them.

Child Protective Services has been called before when a parent has taken a Nintendo away from a kid.

So....parenting skills go out the window because the Government gets involved. That's what I think.

I also think that because we subsidize teenage pregnancies, provide nurseries in public schools (which is done everywhere BTW) and - in New England not too long ago, a couple hundred girls got into a "pregnancy pact" that the problem is larger than just one family.

That's what I think.

mirage  posted on  2008-09-01   13:55:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Alright, so let's do the summary:

- Palin is better educated than Obama
- She is totally ready to act as the prez of the US [because]
- She has more experience
- She is also a very good mother who educated her daughter wonderfully
- McCain picked the best possible VP because... see above

This entire discussion could be scripted as some absurd Monty Python sketch and it would make lots of people laugh.

Parenthetically speaking, I have kids too but I never heard from the child protection or anyone else. So far, I was able to do my best to prepare them for life and no one interfered. Do you think that Palin was under some child protection watch that prevented her from explaining the facts of life to her daughter.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-09-01   14:04:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do you think that Palin was under some child protection watch that prevented her from explaining the facts of life to her daughter.

That I don't know, but I do know that kids tend to buck their parents.

Have you noticed that the kids of Preachers or Police tend to be pretty badly behaved or that the kids of psychologists and psychiatrists tend to be screwed up? I don't really understand why but it seems that is the case.

As a society, we give approval to teenage pregnancies because we subsidize it and provide them with free daycare so that the teen moms don't have to actually suffer consequences for their actions.

To get back to your first point, nobody will disagree that Obama has an education. But does he have talent? Where is the executive experience? Has he ever run a business, been a mayor, been a governor, or ... ?

That's the question. A freshly minted PhD has a lot of academic knowledge, but no real-world experience. Do you hire a 28 year old freshly minted PhD for CEO or do you find someone with real management experience?

Your line of commentary seems to indicate that academic credentials are all that is needed. If that is the case, then Ben Bernanke will be the finest Fed Chairman of all time, the economy will hum along with no problems, there will never be a banking crisis, and inflation will be nonexistent forever.

How's Bernanke working out?

mirage  posted on  2008-09-01   14:29:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I didn't say that academic achievement is everything. It's only one aspect of one's makeup. I do find statements that 'Obama is a moron' or that 'Palin is more qualified to be prez' somewhat absurd.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-09-01   14:38:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I do find statements that 'Obama is a moron' or that 'Palin is more qualified to be prez' somewhat absurd.

No offense intended, but Palin does have more real-world executive experience than Obama does.

Heck the mayor of Clover SC (population 120) has more executive government experience than Obama does.

Let's not kid ourselves; Obama has never been a manager and he has never been an executive of anything.

NONE of our candidates currently in the race with the exception of Ralph Nader have any significant executive experience. NONE of them.

mirage  posted on  2008-09-01   14:44:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#107. To: mirage (#106)

No, she does NOT. She is qualified to run Alaska because she was voted by the people there to be their governor.

Maybe you didn't notice, but Obama did run a national campaign (his own) for the past couple of years. He did represent his state in the senate and his neighborhood - larger than Palin's town - in the state assembly. While Palin was busy fishing and neglecting her daughter's education, Obama was defeating Hillary. He DID get some 20 million votes while at it, traveled all over the country, met with hundreds of thousands of Americans. What did Palin do to qualify her for a national level executive job?

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-09-01 14:51:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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