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Title: Obama's Years at Columbia Are a Mystery - He Graduated Without Honors
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obama ... -columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/
Published: Sep 8, 2008
Author: ROSS GOLDBERG,
Post Date: 2008-09-08 21:26:36 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1324
Comments: 93

Obama's Years at Columbia Are a Mystery

He Graduated Without Honors

By ROSS GOLDBERG, Special to the Sun | September 2, 2008

//new Dialog.Box('feedback'); new Dialog.Box('article_email');

Senator Obama's life story, from his humble roots, to his rise to Harvard Law School, to his passion as a community organizer in Chicago, has been at the center of his presidential campaign. But one chapter of the tale remains a blank — his education at Columbia College, a place he rarely speaks about and where few people seem to remember him.

Contributing to the mystery is the fact that nobody knows just how well Mr. Obama, unlike Senator McCain and most other major candidates for the past two elections, performed as a student.

The Obama campaign has refused to release his college transcript, despite an academic career that led him to Harvard Law School and, later, to a lecturing position at the University of Chicago. The shroud surrounding his experience at Columbia contrasts with that of other major party nominees since 2000, all whom have eventually released information about their college performance or seen it leaked to the public.

For better or worse, voters have taken an interest in candidates' grades since 1999, when the New Yorker published President Bush's transcript at Yale and disclosed that he was a C student. Mr. Bush had never portrayed himself as a brain, but many were surprised to learn the next year that his opponent, Vice President Gore, did not do much better at Harvard despite his intellectual image. When Senator Kerry's transcript surfaced, reporters found that he actually had a slightly lower average at Yale than Mr. Bush did.

Some political observers cite such disclosures as proof that candidates' intelligence cannot be judged solely by their political careers or the schools they attended. Grades provide a rare measure of intellect that is immune to political spin, proponents say.

"We like to pretend IQ doesn't matter, but it really does with a lot of jobs, including the presidency," a professor at Smith College who studies the effects of human intelligence on the economy, James Miller, said. "We can't trust the information that candidates give us, so it's important to look for objective data that they can't falsify or distort."

Mr. Miller acknowledged that Mr. Obama displayed academic achievement at Harvard, where he graduated magna cum laude and led the Harvard Law Review. Still, Mr. Miller said, he would like to see information about how Mr. Obama performed in various subjects at Columbia.

That view is not shared by other election observers, including some who have themselves indulged the public's interest in candidates' academic records. One of them is Geoffrey Kabaservice, a political historian who in 2000 published Senator Bradley's relatively low score of 485 on the verbal SAT. Mr. Bradley, a Rhodes Scholar who was a star basketball player at Princeton, was running for the Democratic presidential nomination.

"It's awfully hard to correlate anything, really, about a person on the basis of their grades," Mr. Kabaservice said, explaining that he published Mr. Bradley's score to highlight limitations in intelligence testing. He said he doubted that candidates' grades have affected the outcome of any recent presidential elections.

"For people who didn't like George W. Bush, for example, the grade aspect only confirmed what they thought about him," Mr. Kabaservice said. "And for everybody else, it made him more of a regular guy."

The Obama campaign declined to comment for this article and did not offer an explanation for why his transcript has not been released. But observers speculated that one reason might be the racially charged nature of the election. Mr. Obama has acknowledged benefiting from affirmative action in the past, and details about his academic performance might open him up to critics eager to accuse him, probably unfairly, of receiving a free ride, Mr. Kabaservice said.

"Anyone who is a minority and who's come up partially through the meritocracy — getting into good colleges, and subsequently good law schools — is going to come under suspicion that there was some kind of affirmative action boost," he said. "I suspect this is an area of discomfort for Obama."

In contrast with the rest of Mr. Obama's life story, little is known about his college experience. He attended Occidental College in Los Angeles for two years before transferring to Columbia in 1981. The move receives only a mention in Mr. Obama's 1995 memoir, "Dreams from My Father," which instead devotes that chapter to his impressions of race and class struggles in New York.

An article in a Columbia University publication, Columbia College Today, reported that Mr. Obama has portrayed Columbia as a period of buckling down following a troubled adolescence. He did not socialize much, he has said, instead spending a lot of time in the library, "like a monk." He has also stated that he was involved to some extent with the Black Students Organization.

Federal law limits the information that Columbia can release about Mr. Obama's time there. A spokesman for the university, Brian Connolly, confirmed that Mr. Obama spent two years at Columbia College and graduated in 1983 with a major in political science. He did not receive honors, Mr. Connolly said, though specific information on his grades is sealed. A program from the 1983 graduation ceremony lists him as a graduate.

More is known about Mr. McCain's experience at the United States Naval Academy, where he was a self-described troublemaker and graduated in the bottom 1% of his class. The McCain campaign has declined to release his transcript, saying that his performance at the academy can only be viewed in the context of his larger military career.

"His record stands on its own," a McCain spokesman, Peter Feldman, said. "His time spent in college was part of the transformative years that made him who he was."

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#53. To: Jethro Tull (#50)

The case for *neither branch of the National Party* has been made on this forum since it's inception.

amen. if you had a penny for each of your posts alone, you'd be a rich man. ;)

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-09   9:37:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#45)

All I said is I would prefer my tax dollars to be used for those type things as opposed to being spent on immoral and unnecessary wars. That is all I said. And when it comes to helping others, we have no problem.

as an America(ns) Firster, i would agree.

But we earn enough to have bought a house for my parents and make the monthly payments for my mom (my dad passed away 3 years ago from cancer), the monthly house payment, utility bills and cable bills for my daughter and her 4 children

you made the choice to help and take care of your own. you weren't forced by government. that's the way it should be and that's the point i was trying to make.

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-09   9:42:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: angle, Jethro Tull (#47)

You're making the case for Obama.

No, he wasn't. When someone makes a case against boneheaded stuff that your hero is planning it automatically makes them in favor of equally boneheaded $#it that someone else has done or is doing? Why can't they be against both?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   9:46:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: christine (#52)

surely you're not saying that's exclusive to the neocons

I think the republican party was hijacked by the neocons and is now defacto, neo con. The democrat party was also hijacked by the neocons initially to a lesser extent and the neocon corruption has now infiltrated and spread far and wide so that the dem party is now controlled by the neocons for the most part, ie, Nancty Pelosi and her faction which is the ruling faction.

The unwitting good dems signed onto war before the 911 false flag was exposed and so did some good pubs. For the most part, this plan/coup was hatched and carried out for years under guise. Some are now catching on, (us and others) but is it too late? I don't know. That's where the Obama people are coming from...that their guy is the only hope to halt or slow this madness.

It's a bad bad situation.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   9:47:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#38)

Harvard Law School recognizes the achievement of attaining and maintaining high grades through graduation honors.

Yes, but the 3.3 is per one of the profs there for Magna Cum Laude.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   9:48:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: James Deffenbach (#55)

Why can't they be against both?

We can.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   9:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: mirage (#57)

Yes, but the 3.3

My god.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   9:49:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#42)

But then again, I am a Christian who understands the difference between the fake right wing radical Christians and what Jesus taught.

Jesus didn't teach you to hire armed tax collectors to enforce welfare laws.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   9:49:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: christine (#54) (Edited)

that's the way it should be and that's the point i was trying to make.

Haven't we passed the point of no return?

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   9:50:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: angle (#59)

Sorry....I know the place too well. Four generations of Harvard grads and professors here.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   9:51:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: angle. all (#56)

Some are now catching on, (us and others) but is it too late? I don't know. That's where the Obama people are coming from...that their guy is the only hope to halt or slow this madness.

It's a bad bad situation.

Bad, bad, bump.

A nation of mullets, ruled by inbred, moronic tyrants.

Lod  posted on  2008-09-09   9:56:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Jethro Tull (#50)

The case for *neither branch of the National Party* has been made on this forum since it's inception.

I'm just saying. Your critique of absolutely every suggestion or idea is quick and pointed. But where's a solution? How do you propose we move forward as a nation and a people.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   9:56:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: mirage (#62)

Four generations of Harvard grads and professors here.

I'd like to have these great minds here come up with some solutions. The ragging about the gpa is beneath your smarts.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   9:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: mirage (#62)

What I posted came directly from the Harvard Law School. Now do I believe what they post on their law school site or you? I think you know who I believe.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   10:02:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: James Deffenbach (#55)

No, he wasn't. When someone makes a case against boneheaded stuff that your hero is planning it automatically makes them in favor of equally boneheaded $#it that someone else has done or is doing? Why can't they be against both?

exactly

Do You Know What Freedom Really Means? Freedom4um.com

christine  posted on  2008-09-09   10:04:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: angle (#64)

But where's a solution? How do you propose we move forward as a nation and a people.

Not politically my friend. To turn to the very class of people who have us nearly in chains is insanity. I suggest the answer to your question lies in the study of history, specifically revolutions. Whether you care for the eventual result of a particular revolution isn't important; learn what caused them, who fought them, who led them. Start with ours.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-09-09   10:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#45)

But we earn enough to have bought a house for my parents and make the monthly payments for my mom (my dad passed away 3 years ago from cancer), the monthly house payment, utility bills and cable bills for my daughter and her 4 children (her bum of an ex doesn't pay any child support and she maybe makes $35,000 a year)and still give $200.00 a week to our church and some to charity. All of these excluding the charity come to about $28,000 a year and if we were to be asked do we regret doing this, the answer would be a definite NO!

Matthew 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Matthew 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

Matthew 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   10:06:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: angle (#58)

We can.

I thought so too.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   10:17:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: mirage (#60)

Jesus didn't teach you to hire armed tax collectors to enforce welfare laws.

Exactly right. Jesus was a great proponent of the ten commandments, one of which was and is, thou shalt not steal. And if your neighbor has no right to rob you then why do people you don't even know have a right to rob you to give a part of it--after they take their cut--to your neighbor?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   10:19:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Jethro Tull (#68)

OK, a revolution. Even revolutions were planned and organized. I don't see a plan, JT.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   10:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#66)

What I posted came directly from the Harvard Law School. Now do I believe what they post on their law school site or you? I think you know who I believe.

I believe what I know for a number of reasons.

1) In the 1980s and up until the late 1990s, many schools at Harvard didn't even give grades.
2) Harvard changed their honors system within the last three years.
3) When did you get your data and when did Obama graduate so which system did he graduate under? Do you even know?

I await your response to #3.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   20:45:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: angle (#65)

The ragging about the gpa is beneath your smarts.

True, but popping an ego is a vice I'm not yet ready to give up.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   20:47:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: mirage (#73)

Don't waste my time. It is obvious you know very little about Harvard or you applied there and was rejected.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   20:57:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: James Deffenbach (#69)

Don't start. I am stating a fact. You have no idea what I'm talking about.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   20:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#76)

You have no idea what I'm talking about.

Considering the fact that you don't know what you are talking about a good part of the time I don't find it too surprising when other people don't know what you are talking about.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   21:03:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: James Deffenbach (#77)

Shouldn't you be over at LP or Freepers? Again, you have no idea what I am talking about. If you knew you might understand.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   21:07:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#78)

Shouldn't you be over at LP or Freepers? Again, you have no idea what I am talking about.

With your support for the clown with the jug ears shouldn't you be posting on the Daily KOS? And again, it appears to me that you don't know what you are talking about a big part of the time so why would you expect other people to?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   21:17:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: James Deffenbach (#79)

Tell what you mean by support? Is it wrong to want to know the truth and facts? Your logic is "let's see, I don't like somebody so the worst thing I hear or read about them has to be the truth, even if it isn't" That type of thinking is what has helped the neocons virtually destroy our country, our economy and our constitutional protections/rights. And your comment about Obama's ears? You a racist?

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   21:33:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#80)

Oh, the fact that I can recognize jug ears when I see them makes me a "racist"? wtf have you been smoking? I have seen white people with jug ears too--you ever see the Britcom, Are You Being Served? One of the characters on that show, a "Mr. Rumbold" had the same kind of ears (he was white) and members of the staff called him jug ears. You are going to have to do better than that.

And there is nothing wrong with my logic. What have I said about your hero that isn't true?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   21:45:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#75)

It is obvious you know very little about Harvard

Its obvious you don't know much about anything but claim an outdated internet reference is how Harvard has always done things.

Do some real research. Learn something about the place.

In 1966, 22% of Harvard undergraduate students earned A's. By 1996, that figure rose to 46%. That same year, 82% of Harvard seniors graduated with honors.

So much for what you THINK you know. Eight of ten graduate with honors? Golly gee, so much for "top ranked" and that's just the undergrads!

What about Columbia or other places?

In a study for the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, former Harvard Dean Henry Rosovosky found that in 1950 about 15 percent of Harvard students got a B+ or better. Today, it's nearly 70 percent. Last year 50 percent of the grades at Harvard were either A or A-, up from 22 percent in 1966, and 91 percent of seniors graduated with honors. Eighty percent of the grades at the University of Illinois are A's and B's, and 50 percent of Columbia students are on the Dean's List.

WOW! 50 percent are on the Dean's list? Talk about Grade Inflation!

Care to explain this?

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   22:10:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: mirage (#82)

What does undergrad GPA have to do with their law school GPA?

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   22:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: mirage (#82)

I wonder, could it be those that attend Harvard earn those higher grades? Oh, that's right... if you go to Harvard you automatically earn an A in all classes.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   22:13:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#83)

What does undergrad GPA have to do with their law school GPA?

Those are just a couple of articles I pulled up googling "harvard grade inflation" but the grade inflation, by 2000, had infected Harvard up and down.

Harvard set, as a policy, that the "average" grade would be a B+, not a C.

Here's another article from Purdue:

Two thirds of the graduates from Harvard Law School walk out with honors.

Wow, two thirds? Kinda blows up the thought that honors at Harvard Law are special.....

Keep learning, you're getting there.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   22:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: James Deffenbach (#81)

My hero? If I decide to vote this year I will be voting either for Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin. Again, you are not interested in facts and truth... you are controlled by your personal political agenda and belief. In other words, facts mean nothing to you. And your attempt at covering up for your ignorant remark about ears is pretty pitiful. Just because I like or don't like a person's politics doesn't mean I am going to insist they did A when in fact they did B. You seem to have a problem with that. It's called TRUTH AND FACTS.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   22:18:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: mirage (#85)

That's right.. it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that those with the highest GPAs and SAT scores go to schools like Harvard, Yale etc. If they are getting better grades it can't be because they earn them. The school knows how smart they really are so they just give them the grades to keep them happy. Go back to FR where you are more at home.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-09   22:22:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#87)

He can't let it go. You made your point. His incessant posting on the topic reveals his weakness.

angle  posted on  2008-09-09   22:23:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#87)

it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that those with the highest GPAs and SAT scores go to schools like Harvard, Yale etc

You ignore legacy admission to Harvard. You don't have to have top-flight grades to get in there. In fact, under their diversity program, if you can show that you have OK grades and come from an impoverished background, you can get in to Harvard. They have a program for that too. Then there is Affirmative Action or Daddy can just endow a chair and you get in anyhow.

Keep trying. Some day you'll come up with an argument can't be refuted and dismissed in short order.

"A leader, for a change." - Jimmy Carter, 1976 campaign slogan. Sound familiar? Here it comes again!

mirage  posted on  2008-09-09   22:25:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#84) (Edited)

Harvard, Yale and to a far lesser degree Columbia and Princeton all graduate their students with a first rate left wing indoctrination in social policy, a constellation of insider connections and a high degree of hubris. I'm not as impressed with Obama's education as you are.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-09-09   22:41:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#86)

As I told you, you will have to do better than you have so far to prove your statement that I am a racist. What I said was not an "ignorant remark," it was the truth, a fact you can verify for yourself if you can get that show I mentioned--it is on public TV where I live. I have no problem with the truth (and you don't have to say "TRUTH AND FACTS"--if it is true it is a fact).

As for being "controlled" by my personal political agenda and beliefs I am "controlled" no more or less by that than anyone else is. And show me where I have lied about Obama. I can wait (and wait, and wait).

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-09-09   23:50:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: mirage (#89)

You have not refuted anything.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-10   0:58:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: angle (#88)

You're right. I have a feeling that if he went to college he perhaps applied to an IVY league school and was rejected.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2008-09-10   1:00:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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