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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Who is Jesus Christ?
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Sep 23, 2008
Author: Bible
Post Date: 2008-09-23 14:35:21 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 807
Comments: 41

Who is Jesus Christ?

Proverbs 30:6; Add nothing to his words, that he may not reprove you, and that you may not have to be proved a liar.

To begin with, it is best that all understand that I consider myself a Christian.

What does that mean? It means that I accept Jesus Christ as my savior, and as my King, but in addition, it means that I will try my best to live according to His Word, which, in the Words of Jesus Christ, are not His Words, but the Words of His Father.

John 14:23; In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him. 24 He that does not love me does not observe my words; and the word that you are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me.

But if I am a self-proclaimed Christian, should I not know, exactly as is possible, who is Jesus Christ, according to the Word of Jehovah God?

John 1:1; In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in (the) beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

Now bear with me, please. I understand that some have a problem with this translation. However, as I have mentioned a number of times, the Bible is harmonious. That simply means that the Bible can not contradict itself. Therefore, let us examine the Scriptures in more detail that we may see the harmony of the Bible.

As we examine John 1, verse 1, we find that Jesus Christ is called the Word. Most understand this. We also see that the Word was with God in the beginning, which occurred before the Old Testament was written. Since we are told, clearly, that all things came into existence through him (the Word), does it make any sense that we hear nothing from Jesus in the Old Testament, before he came to live on earth as Jesus Christ?

Of course not, so let us see what He is called in the Old Testament;

Proverbs 8:22; “Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.

You will note that he is called the ‘master worker’ in this chapter. Now look at verse 35;

For the one finding me will certainly find life,

Anyone who has read the Bible will understand that this refers directly to Jesus Christ. Now, look at;

Proverbs 8:12; “I, wisdom, I have resided with shrewdness and I find even the knowledge of thinking abilities.

So in the Old Testament Jesus Christ is called wisdom, as well as master worker. You should also note how harmonious Proverbs Chapter 8 is with the above translation of John 1:1.

Now, let us look as what Jesus Christ had to say about His Father in the New Testament.

Matt. 4:10; “Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan! For it is written, “It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”’” (Jesus was obviously not saying that he himself was to be worshiped.)

John 8:54; “Jesus answered (the Jews): ‘If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is your God.’”

John 17:26; (Jesus prayed to his Father) “I have made your name known to them and will make it known, it order that the love which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

John 14:28; “… that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.”

John 5:19; Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to you, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”

John 5:30; “I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative, just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.”

The above is pretty clear, once you begin to take in the Bible in its entirety. Nothing in the Bible stands on its own; it must be in harmony with the rest of the Bible. This is the most difficult lesson for most to learn; I know because it was for me as well.

And that is why this next verse is so very, very important.

John 17:3; This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

Unless you are willing to PERSONALLY take in knowledge of Jehovah God, then you are depending on other men for your information. That is NOT a solid foundation for salvation. Only you are responsible for you.

And then we have, in the Bible, knowledge of how the disciples of Jesus Christ worked;

Acts5:42; And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.

And we also have a warning about those who do not act as disciples;

Revelation 3:16; So, because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth.

Please, if there are questions, perhaps I can answer them. If I can not, I have sources who can. Blessings, Richard Subscribe to *Bible facts*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 34.

#1. To: richard9151 (#0)

Do you read Greek? If not then your scholarship on the Bible is suspect and your opinions are as meaningless as those of any slack jawed yokel from the Bible Belt.

Destro  posted on  2008-09-23   15:53:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Destro (#1)

Do you read Greek?

Do you read Aramaic? Or don't you know what I'm talking about?

Turtle  posted on  2008-09-23   17:46:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Turtle, richard9151 (#6)

Do you read Aramaic? Or don't you know what I'm talking about?

The New Testament was not written in Aramaic nor in Hebrew first. It was in Greek. And my point if someone can't read the original Greek, then on what authority does he speak?

Christ warned against false teachers who set themselves up on their own authority.

When he was about to be taken into the barracks, Paul said to the Tribune, "May I speak to you?" "Do you know Greek?" the Tribune asked. Acts 21:37

Destro  posted on  2008-09-23   21:16:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Destro (#22)

Christ warned against false teachers who set themselves up on their own authority.

Obviously, there is something that you do not like about the information. Why do you not just come out and say what it is, and, supply your counter-point?

Or is it that you just have to have something to bitch about?

richard9151  posted on  2008-09-23   23:00:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: richard9151 (#28)

Obviously, there is something that you do not like about the information.

I am asking you what makes your opinion valid - I am asking for your BONA FIDES.

Destro  posted on  2008-09-23   23:29:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Destro, *Bible facts* (#30)

I am asking you what makes your opinion valid - I am asking for your BONA FIDES.

You still do not read, do you.

I am a student of the Bible; nothing more. I am simply more serious about it than most, which is why I have 12 different translations of the Bible.

Plus, I do not listen to the traditions of man, most of which have come out of Babylon originally, and through the Roman church, nor do I accept what man says unless it can be proved in the Bible, which, of course, most things that man says can not be. Oh, and one more thing; unlike most, I know how to use the Bible.

Now you have my bona whatevers.

Only four hundred years ago, the Protestant reformers were vocal in identifying the Roman Catholic Church with the prophecies of Revelation, "the whore" of Revelation 17 and the mystical "Babylon" of Revelation 18.

Ancient Babylon is the spiritual mother of Rome with many parallels between their religion, the cities and the festivities they encouraged, Alexander Hislop, in his volume, The Two Babylons, makes clear comparisons between both mighty cities. Therefore, there is no doubt as to the identity of Rome.

Rome was the only "great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth" (Revelation 17:18) at the time of the writing of Revelation (AD 96). Rome is also the great trader in goods and the "souls of men" (Revelation 18:13) and "in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Revelation 18:24). These words of the Lord Jesus are recorded by the apostle John (Revelation 1:1), warning his followers to remain true and faithful to him, and not be entangled with the church and the politics of the world.

Now, what happened to those Protestant reformers? They went and joined the Roman church, and will share in her destruction, for all time. And if you truly do not understand that, then you have little knowledge of the dogma and traditions of the Roman church, such as Xmas, Easter and all of the rest.

richard9151  posted on  2008-09-24   10:22:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: richard9151 (#31)

I am a student of the Bible; nothing more.

Why are Americans infatuated with non expert experts? Your opinion is no more valid then the next American's and in fact such speculation by so many different people over these matters is an affront to God. The very gall of someone who can say that he has insights into the Bible that are unique is disrespecting the mystery that is the Triune God.

Destro  posted on  2008-09-24   13:20:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Destro, *Bible facts* (#32)

that he has insights into the Bible that are unique is disrespecting the mystery that is the Triune God.

Amazing. Jehovah God wrote through men for 2,000 years and never mentioned anything about a Triune God.

Jesus Christ, the Teacher, spent his entire time on earth and never mentioned a Triune God.

Now, is this my opinion?

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” – (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

The Catholic church admits that the Triune God did not come from Scripture, and it was not thought of until the end of the 4th century.

We have another witness to this;

The New Encyclopedia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4)…. The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies…. By the end of the 4th century … the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.” – (1976), Micropaedia, Vol. X, p. 126.

People tell me that they do not understand the mystery, but accept it. Why is that?

1 Cor. 14:33; For God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace.

Yet the Roman church killed 100s of thousands of people who would not accept the Trinity. If you want chapter and verse on this, simply google the inquistion.

2 Timothy 3:16-17: "All scripture is inspired by God, and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

There is no escaping the meaning of these words. The Scriptures are inspired by God, and are the source of all doctrinal information.

The Authority of the Roman Church

But some will say "Surely, this is also the position of the Church. No Christian would deny that the Bible is the ultimate source of appeal in theological questions." It is true that this is the theoretical position, but in practice the authority of the Church itself is given equal or even greater weight than that of Scripture. One of the dominant ecclesiastical figures of the nineteenth century was John Newman, an Anglican vicar who in later life switched to Rome and eventually became a Catholic Cardinal. If he is at all remembered today it is for his hymn "Lead, kindly Light", but in his day he was well known for his prolific doctrinal writings. He wrote about the doctrine of the Trinity as follows:

"It may startle those who are but acquainted with the popular writings of this day, yet, I believe, the most accurate consideration of the subject will lead us to acquiesce in the statement as a general truth, that the doctrines in question (viz., the Trinity and the Incarnation) have never been learned merely from Scripture. Surely the sacred volume was never intended, and is not adapted to teach us our creed; however certain it is that we can prove our creed from it, when it has once been taught us ... From the very first, the rule has been, as a matter of fact, for the Church to teach the truth, and then appeal to Scripture in vindication of its own teaching".

Notice the clear implication of these words. The Church formulates the doctrines and then appeals to Scripture in an attempt to support them. This is very different from coming to the Bible with an open mind in order to learn what it teaches.

Another Catholic priest, the Rev James Hughes, was even more outspoken about the real source of Church doctrine in general and the Trinity in particular:

"My belief in the Trinity is based on the authority of the Church: no other authority is sufficient".

I could continue, but what is the use? You accept the authority of the Catholic church to define what you believe. That is a problem for you to solve; no one can do it for you.

richard9151  posted on  2008-09-24   13:40:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: richard9151 (#33) (Edited)

The Authority of the Roman Church

But some will say "Surely, this is also the position of the Church. No Christian would deny that the Bible is the ultimate source of appeal in theological questions." It is true that this is the theoretical position, but in practice the authority of the Church itself is given equal or even greater weight than that of Scripture. One of the dominant ecclesiastical figures of the nineteenth century was John Newman, an Anglican vicar who in later life switched to Rome and eventually became a Catholic Cardinal. If he is at all remembered today it is for his hymn "Lead, kindly Light", but in his day he was well known for his prolific doctrinal writings. He wrote about the doctrine of the Trinity as follows:

I am not Roman Catholic. You see what has happened here is that the Protestants in whatever form they mutate into were once Roman Catholics - the Roman Catholics themselves went into heresy. So when an orthodox perspective is injected into the mix a Protestant whose whole existence is designed to refute Catholicism fails when confronted with the acid test of Orthodoxy. Protestant just don't have any ammunition against the Orthodox because all their talking points are designed to be used to counter Roman Catholic talking points.

The Orthodox church predates the New Testament. In fact the Orthodox Church composed the New Testament a generation or so after Jesus by men who passed on their authority to bishops of their choosing. It was the Orthodox Church which then compiled the New Testament and told the rest of the faithful which books were gospel and which were not.

That is their bona fides - what is yours?

To deny the Holy Trinity makes you akin to a Muslim. Protestantism is pretty much the same heresy as Islam to an Orthodox Christian way of comparing the two.

Just like Islam - Protestants tend to deny the priesthood, deny the Trinity, deny sainthood, deny veneration of icons, advocate sola scriptura and many other similarities (including polygamy under the Mormon heresy - which in itself is an offshoot of Protestantism).

Destro  posted on  2008-09-25   9:40:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 34.

#35. To: Destro, *Big Pharma*, *9-11*, *Old Wives Tales*, *Bible facts*, *Agriculture-Environment*, *CAFR* (#34)

To deny the Holy Trinity makes you akin to a Muslim.

Yeah, right, worshipping one God. Pretty good company compared to those who worship three in one. Without having any Biblical foundation. In fact, in direct condradiction to the Bible. And, against everything that Jesus Christ taught.

History is very clear on this subject; there was no trinity in Christianity until the 4th century. And, it was not taught in the Old Testament, nor in the New.

The historical record also shows that ALL pagan religions had a triune god. I have posted the details about this, but is this all of the story? Not hardly.

http://www.paganchristianity.org/

Book Description

Have you ever wondered why we Christians do what we do for church every Sunday morning? Why do we "dress up" for church? Why does the pastor preach a sermon each week? Why do we have pews, steeples, choirs, and seminaries? This volume reveals the startling truth: most of what Christians do in present-day churches is not rooted in the New Testament, but in pagan culture and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles. Coauthors Frank Viola and George Barna support their thesis with compelling historical evidence in the first-ever book to document the full story of modern Christian church practices.

Many Christians take for granted that their church's practices are rooted in Scripture. Yet those practices look very different from those of the first- century church. The New Testament is not silent on how the early church freely expressed the reality of Christ's indwelling in ways that rocked the first- century world. Times have changed. Pagan Christianity leads us on a fascinating tour through church history, revealing this startling and unsettling truth: Many cherished church traditions embraced today originated not out of the New Testament, but out of pagan practices. One of the most troubling outcomes has been the effect on average believers: turning them from living expressions of Christ's glory and power to passive observers. If you want to see that trend reversed, turn to Pagan Christianity . . . a book that examines and challenges every aspect of our contemporary church experience.

Endorsements

"Most contemporary Christians are massively ignorant as to how the church got to where it is today and of how much current church practice is due simply to accumulated tradition, with little or no roots in Scripture. This book provides a useful service in peeling back the layers of tradition, showing the origins of much that we today call "church." Christians who want to be biblically faithful, regardless of their particular tradition or church form, can learn and benefit from the book."

Howard Snyder, Professor of History and Theology of Mission, Asbury Theological Seminary, author of "The Problem of Wineskins" and "The Community of the King."

Now, I am going to repeat what I said before; the ONLY people I know that adhere to the Bible in their daily lives are the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is why I am joining with them. I care NOTHING for the traditions of men; I do care about what Jesus Christ taught.

What you need to do, if you have any hope for resurrection and the promises that Jehovah God has made to us, is to go back and review this thread. And, try and clean yourself of the garbage of men.

richard9151  posted on  2008-09-25 10:37:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 34.

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