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Title: Sarah Palin's pastor exorcises witches, condemns Jew Bankers Source: YT/MSNBC URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esSAVnn2ye0 Published: Oct 4, 2008 Author: AntiConformist911/Olberman Post Date: 2008-10-04 16:06:49 by buckeye Keywords: NoneViews: 1069 Comments: 74
Palin once blessed to be free from 'witchcraft' video surfaced Wednesday showing Sarah Palin being blessed in her hometown church three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who prayed for her protection from "witchcraft" as she prepared to seek higher office. The video shows Palin standing before Bishop Thomas Muthee in the pulpit of the Wasilla Assembly of God church, holding her hands open as he asked Jesus Christ to keep her safe from "every form of witchcraft." "Come on, talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from Satan," Muthee said as two attendants placed their hands on Palin's shoulders. "Make her way my God. Bring finances her way even for the campaign in the name of Jesus. ... Use her to turn this nation the other way around." Palin filed campaign papers a few months later, in October 2005, and was elected governor the next year. Unlike most other Christians — including most evangelicals — Pentecostals believe in "baptism in the Holy Spirit." That can manifest itself through speaking in tongues, modern-day prophesy and faith healing, which includes the laying on of hands. On a visit to the church in June 2008, Palin spoke fondly of the Kenyan pastor and told a group of young missionaries that Muthee's prayers had helped her to become governor. "Pastor Muthee was here and he was praying over me, and you know how he speaks and he's so bold," she said. "And he was praying 'Lord make a way, Lord make a way' ... He said, 'Lord make a way and let her do this next step.' And that's exactly what happened." The Rev. Zipporah Ndiritu, who studied under Muthee in the Kiambu, Kenya-based Word of Faith Church, said the bishop is revered among evangelicals there. In a phone interview from Mombasa, Kenya, she said church doctrine focuses on ridding the world of demons — and witches. "Even in the days of Jesus Christ, according to the Bible there were witches who were manifesting through demonic forces," she said. "You can seek from the Lord, and if you find demonic forces you cast them out." http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gv... Sarah Palin has a new problem with Jewish voters. Ive written before about the appearance of Jews for Jesus leader David Brickner at Palins Wasilla Bible Church and how on August 17, 2008, with Palin in the audience, Brickner described terrorist attacks on Israelis as Gods judgment of unbelief on Jews who have not converted to Christianity. Ive also written about the video of Kenyan witch-hunter Thomas Muthee exorcising witches from Sarah Palin at her church, showing Muthee praying over Sarah Palin and calling on God to make her Alaskas governor, drive away the witches who are attacking her, and saying that the Devil himself is behind the opposition to Palin in the Alaska gubernatorial election. Now video has surfaced of Rev. Muthee at Palins church again with Palin present and in the video — telling the congregation that the Christians need to take over control of the business world, especially banking, from the Jews ("Israelites"). Heres what Muthee said in his sermon where he told the church congregation "the reasons why" they needed to "pray for Sarah": The second area whereby God wants us, wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area. The Bible says that the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. Its high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity running the economics of our nations. Thats what we are waiting for. Thats part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the — you know — if you look at the Israelites, thats how they work. And thats how they are, even today. When we will see that, you know, that the top transporters (?) in the lands, we see, you know, the bankers, we see the people holding the parts (?), they are believers, we will not have the kind of corruption that we are hearing in our societies." http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid... Poster Comment:Nothing follows.
Palin once blessed to be free from 'witchcraft' video surfaced Wednesday showing Sarah Palin being blessed in her hometown church three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who prayed for her protection from "witchcraft" as she prepared to seek higher office.
The video shows Palin standing before Bishop Thomas Muthee in the pulpit of the Wasilla Assembly of God church, holding her hands open as he asked Jesus Christ to keep her safe from "every form of witchcraft."
"Come on, talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from Satan," Muthee said as two attendants placed their hands on Palin's shoulders. "Make her way my God. Bring finances her way even for the campaign in the name of Jesus. ... Use her to turn this nation the other way around." Palin filed campaign papers a few months later, in October 2005, and was elected governor the next year.
Unlike most other Christians — including most evangelicals — Pentecostals believe in "baptism in the Holy Spirit." That can manifest itself through speaking in tongues, modern-day prophesy and faith healing, which includes the laying on of hands.
On a visit to the church in June 2008, Palin spoke fondly of the Kenyan pastor and told a group of young missionaries that Muthee's prayers had helped her to become governor.
"Pastor Muthee was here and he was praying over me, and you know how he speaks and he's so bold," she said. "And he was praying 'Lord make a way, Lord make a way' ... He said, 'Lord make a way and let her do this next step.' And that's exactly what happened."
The Rev. Zipporah Ndiritu, who studied under Muthee in the Kiambu, Kenya-based Word of Faith Church, said the bishop is revered among evangelicals there. In a phone interview from Mombasa, Kenya, she said church doctrine focuses on ridding the world of demons — and witches.
"Even in the days of Jesus Christ, according to the Bible there were witches who were manifesting through demonic forces," she said. "You can seek from the Lord, and if you find demonic forces you cast them out." http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gv... Sarah Palin has a new problem with Jewish voters. Ive written before about the appearance of Jews for Jesus leader David Brickner at Palins Wasilla Bible Church and how on August 17, 2008, with Palin in the audience, Brickner described terrorist attacks on Israelis as Gods judgment of unbelief on Jews who have not converted to Christianity.
Ive also written about the video of Kenyan witch-hunter Thomas Muthee exorcising witches from Sarah Palin at her church, showing Muthee praying over Sarah Palin and calling on God to make her Alaskas governor, drive away the witches who are attacking her, and saying that the Devil himself is behind the opposition to Palin in the Alaska gubernatorial election.
Now video has surfaced of Rev. Muthee at Palins church again with Palin present and in the video — telling the congregation that the Christians need to take over control of the business world, especially banking, from the Jews ("Israelites").
Heres what Muthee said in his sermon where he told the church congregation "the reasons why" they needed to "pray for Sarah":
The second area whereby God wants us, wants to penetrate in our society is in the economic area. The Bible says that the wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous. Its high time that we have top Christian businessmen, businesswomen, bankers, you know, who are men and women of integrity running the economics of our nations. Thats what we are waiting for. Thats part and parcel of transformation. If you look at the — you know — if you look at the Israelites, thats how they work. And thats how they are, even today. When we will see that, you know, that the top transporters (?) in the lands, we see, you know, the bankers, we see the people holding the parts (?), they are believers, we will not have the kind of corruption that we are hearing in our societies." http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid...
Poster Comment:
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#24. To: buckeye (#0) Brickner described terrorist attacks on Israelis as Gods judgment of unbelief on Jews who have not converted to Christianity. What terrorist attacks? When you fight back against an oppressor and murderer of your people you are a terrorist? The only terrorist attacks over there are by the state of Israel. God's judgment on unbelievers has NOT occurred yet, if it had they would know it. RickyJ posted on 2008-10-05 5:04:11 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #31. To: RickyJ (#24) God's judgment on unbelievers has NOT occurred yet, if it had they would know it. God punished unblieving Israelites all the time in the O/T. I think Brickner's statement is a bit of a stretch as it regards 'because they didn't convert to chr5istianity, because the Bible indicates they will when Messiah returns.They were unbelieving and disobeying God's instructions--that is why they went thru so many diasporas. And from my reading of Scripture and other materials, they still owned the land, but God refused to let them possess it. rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 12:20:21 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #33. To: rowdee (#31) God punished unblieving Israelites all the time in the O/T Punishment and judgment are two different things. The present state of Israel has experienced neither. Dead Jews can't convert to Christianity and I see nowhere in the Bible where it says all the live ones will convert to Christianity when Jesus returns. Also the Bible is referring to real Jews, not the pretenders in Israel today. RickyJ posted on 2008-10-05 12:27:08 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #37. To: RickyJ (#33) I don't presume to know what blood flows through each and every Jew in Israel....nor do I presume to know their heart. To be punished, God would have judged that they did not do as they were supposed to do.......otherwise it would be an odd God that would punish first, doncha think? Of course, this is not the final judgement."Real Jews".........was Jesus a real Jew? I ask because he came along long after the diaspora to Babylon, and certainly the Assyrian diaspora.Furthermore, there were jewish communities in many cities all over the place before the Khazar storyline. So exactly how do you determine who has the right 'blood'.......and are you speaking religiously or ethnically/racially? And lets see your proof that each and every one of them are not 'jews'. rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 12:37:54 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #43. To: rowdee (#37) And lets see your proof that each and every one of them are not 'jews'. The relevant point would be whether they were ISRAELITES/HEBREWS ... most "jews" today are actually gentiles (ashkenazi descendants of Japeth) that have converted to Judaism, have no ethnic relationship to Abraham (who was not a Jew) or Jacob/Israel (who was not a Jew) ... and are not entitled to claim the inheritance belonging to Israelites. noone222 posted on 2008-10-05 13:00:15 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #48. To: noone222 (#43) I've not closed the book on this assertion, as I continue to read and study. There is much confusion and bs because of how the words have been intermingled all these years, i.e., Israelite/Hebrew/Jew.And stick in there ashkenazi and sephardic and khazar and yiddish and all other sorts of 'stuff', like diasporas of both the northern and southern kingdoms--and more than one. And there's a lot to sort through.In the meantime, I'll refrain from hating and despising, nor will I gush with pride and wishful desire to be a part of the mess.....thats been my position all along. I'm on a quest for truth, as far as I can determine it. rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 13:30:52 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #51. To: rowdee (#48) (Edited) Genesis 10 2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Ezekiel 38 (doesn't mention ashkenaz directly, but mentions the rest of the Japethetic lineage, Gomer and Togarmah) 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of [a] Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of [b] Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush [c] and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you. Genesis simply describes the descendants of Japeth, while Ezekiel describes THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL in the last times ! noone222 posted on 2008-10-05 14:36:06 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #53. To: noone222 (#51) noone, I've read this............I believe it. And Genesis also says, in 9:27 that God would enlarge Japeth and he would live in the tents of Shem--this was after Shem and Japeth clothed Noah's nakedness. Thus a familial relationship developed between these two tribes.That said, I've also read where when the kingdoms split that NOT ALL the northern tribes went into exile via Assyria==they went elsewhere, and they went southward, like as towards Judea.Furthermore, as trade developed, one saw Israelites, including Judeans, forming communities all over the known world..and that was before Christ was born. Do you have information that none of the Judeans went into Europe? Do you have information showing there was no intermarriage between 'shirttail relatives'. Can you prove that everyone in Israel is NOT of the tribe of Judah? Recall that Abraham, as well as Isaac sent for wives for their son(s) or sent the son(s) themselves to marry relatives in PadanAram. Scriptures talk often about 'remnants'....and that God will not forget the remnants. EVen when Nebuchadnezzar took the Judeans away into Babylon, not all Judeans were taken......some escaped into the desert, and some were left behind, and some were out of the area at the time of Jerusalem being taken. rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 16:03:14 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #61. To: rowdee (#53) (Edited) And Genesis also says, in 9:27 that God would enlarge Japeth and he would live in the tents of Shem--this was after Shem and Japeth clothed Noah's nakedness. Thus a familial relationship developed between these two tribes. This has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or promises made to his descendants. [Older Bibles used to have a map that showed Ham locating in Africa, Shem in the Middle-East and Japeth in Eastern Europe/Asia]. Ezekiel 38 is end times prophecy, and this book names the enemies of (true) Israel and it's not likely that the enemy of Israel would be Israel itself, is it ??? You ask for proof that inter-marriages didn't occur. We can assume that they did occur. The better question regarding "proof" should be asked of those that have invaded and have committed genocide against the Palestinians for the sake of installing some Eastern European/Russian people calling themselves Jews there. These People should have had PROOF that they descended from Abraham if they were to be given land Biblically promised to his descendants. [However, you're mentioning the tribe of Judah indicates that you're thinking that the State of Israel should have been instituted for the benefit of one tribe (maybe 2 if you count Benjamin) of 12 that were to share the promise doesn't it ]? Can you name one other nation founded by international force in support of a biblical claim ??? International Law has never upheld scriptural claims by force. The UN (God's enemy) has never supported scripture, but mandated this Jew fraud. Yes, Japeth does reside in the tents of Shem. That's why the Ashkenazi Jews (Japethites) are all over our government. No one can definitively say that inter-marriages didn't occur. It is pretty common knowledge that they were frowned upon clear up until this generation in America. Marriage licenses were instituted in America to LEGALIZE inter- marriage between blacks and whites, even though there were marriages between Indians and American settlers that weren't LICENSED. The establishment of the State of Israel should have required definitive proof of the claim made that these people were RETURNING to a land they or their ancestors once occupied. This proof was never required and has never been demonstrated even though millions have died. The Ashkenazi branch weren't converted to Judaism until 750 AD. Lastly, to institute/impose a SECULAR NATION STATE by invasion and warfare against an indigenous population that can prove they have lived there for well over a thousand years, based upon a religious determination contained in the Torah/Bible, a RELIGIOUS belief system NOT SHARED UNIVERSALLY, based upon an UNWITNESSED PROMISE, made by an INVISIBLE GOD, to a man 4000 years ago IS BEYOND LUDICROUS and most certainly an international CRIME committed by an international bully called the U.S. and Britain. However, to be completely truthful, Britain had a legitimate claim as the British (Brit-Ish means covenant man in Hebrew) are descendants of Abraham through Isaac, Israel, Judah. I believe they lost their claim based upon promises made to Abraham just like any other nation would if they departed the area for whatever reason. noone222 posted on 2008-10-05 19:36:33 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #63. To: noone222 (#61) Believe as YOU wish, noone........And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't as you nor I what should have been done, did they?YOu should recall that Doc said so many times that God has his own way of doing things, and that they are not mans ways. As vehemently as you fight it, there is the chance that this is, indeed, God's will being worked in one of those 'mysterious' ways. He certainly won't be asking you or I for our approval or agreement. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across, or something...........geeze.......imagine that. rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 20:58:52 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #67. To: rowdee (#63) And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't ask you nor I what should have been done, did they? There are still people being slaughtered and WW III looms large because of the State of Israel. Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks proves that the debate isn't over. Maybe we should ASK even though they haven't asked us. Taxpayers are expected to financially support this foreign state and should have a voice. My generation is supposed to stand still for the mistakes of those prior generations ??? I think the Federal Reserve System, The Income Tax and the State of Israel are just three examples of errors we have a duty to correct. What about future generations being forced to accept our errors ? $850 Billion or more bailout of criminal bankers comes immediately to mind. YOu should recall that Doc said so many times that God has his own way of doing things, and that they are not mans ways. As vehemently as you fight it, there is the chance that this is, indeed, God's will being worked in one of those 'mysterious' ways. He certainly won't be asking you or I for our approval or agreement. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across, or something...........geeze.......imagine that. This last comment referencing Doc is of a fatalist nature . The conditions causing so much dissatisfaction today exist because so many were willing to accept or go along to get along with bad decisions made in their name. My vehement fight is against those claiming that the State of Israel is fulfillment of scripture. My prayers conclude with "your (God's) will be done, not mine" ... so, please don't confuse my position as one opposed to God's because it is in opposition to those claiming a scriptural basis for establishing the State of Israel. (Doc also said that we needn't leave our brain at the door). Doc tip-toed around this (Jewish) issue and probably for very good reasons. Being tagged as a proponent of "British- Israelism" or "Christian Identity" being the primary one, in my opinion. He did say "don't throw the baby out with the bath water". [Here I agree with Doc, and am not a Christian Identity or British-Israelism proponent, just a Bible student that thinks it important that we separate God's Will from what scripture states because by confusing the two things we may be imposing our will based upon a false understanding of scripture.] Truth being the all important issue for me since God said "I am Truth". Whether the State of Israel is God's will or not (which it very well might be) has no bearing upon what the BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS or what people believe or what's acceptable according to man's secular (International) law. If one is to believe the Bible is God's word, then one should believe what it "actually" says. The end times prophecy of Ezekiel leaves very little room for interpretation as regards who are the enemies of Israel and it happens that they are primarily Japeth's descendants along with the Arabs. To think that these named enemies of Israel are at the same time Israel itself is an impossibility and NOT BIBLICAL. The scripture that most Christians resort to when confronted about this subject is one where God tells Abraham that anyone cursing "HIS DESCENDANTS" (here most Christians insert the word Jews, which isn't Biblical and Abraham's descendants weren't Jews with the possible exception of the single tribe of Judah) will be cursed. This one scripture being misinterpreted causes many people to ignore the terrible deeds done by the so-called Jews, when Jesus instructed his followers to judge them (everyone) by their deeds. Judge the tree by its fruit. If this is applied to the State of Israel as we know it today it is a poison apple, instituted through fraud and murder by men not God. The conclusion being drawn amongst Christian/Zionist supporters of the State of Israel while unproven is that modern day Jews are actually descended from Abraham (which according to Christ/God would mean that they would hear Christ's voice but can't because they are not of his and are primarily atheists) and at best would make-up only two of the twelve tribes given the promise. These disputations relative to scripture should be based upon solid scriptural evidence and not upon interpretations of men. Even then, these scriptural determinations between Christians, even if agreed upon, shouldn't have any more effect upon International Law than other religious writings that are sometimes believed by more people than believe the Bible. In other words, the my God is bigger than your God theory would rule the day and the religious choice of the victor would (and has been) be imposed upon non-believers. [What people choose to believe and what is truth are very often two completely different things aren't they ?] Let me be clear in what I'm saying. If you were to ask me if I believe that the State of Israel's existence is God's Will, I would answer "it exists so it must be God's Will" with this caveat, it exists by and through fraud contrary to traditional practices of law, defies logic, has man's finger prints all over it, has been a boil upon mankind since its inception, and I don't think it has a basis in scripture. That is not to say it isn't God's Will. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across No argument from me about this statement at all. If something exists its difficult, if not impossible, to say it does so in opposition to God's Will. However, just because something might be God's Will doesn't make it scriptural. We are admonished to study the scriptures to "show ourselves approved". When the issue of Abrahamic Covenant vs. The State of Israel is thoroughly studied we can hardly avoid noticing that the people we call Jews today haven't fulfilled any of the promises contained therein. The tendency within Christianity is to simply accept the teachings of men to the exclusion of scripture. Simply put, God's Will is one thing and Scriptural (documentation) evidence is another. If, as in your case, you want to believe that the State of Israel is God's Will I wouldn't argue for a second. If you said that the State of Israel as we see it today is scriptural, I'd say I think you're wrong. noone222 posted on 2008-10-06 5:01:40 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply #71. To: noone222 (#67) , as in your case, you want to believe that the State of Israel is God's Will I wouldn't argue for a second. If you said that the State of Israel as we see it today is scriptural, I'd say I think you're wrong I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth.And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic'.......I may eventually arrive at the answer they seemingly have, but I'm sick of all the bullshit and hate one has to wade thru with way too many people to get to their position, or supposed position.So, if it takes me 20 years, so be it. The concept that the current state of Israel may be a part of God's plan, may be what we consider fatalistic; no doubt God would think otherwise--as Doc stressed, mans ways are not Gods way.I don't much give a damn for labeling anything and everything I come across. That Doc presented much of the Lost Tribe information was interesting and informative; I didn't sit here and try to analyze whether he was a zionist, a britishite, or just a man of God. It really isn't important to me. It wouldn't change my opinion of him one way or the other.You said a lot more, but i don't feel like responding much more this morning..........cheers. rowdee posted on 2008-10-06 12:28:06 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply Replies to Comment # 71. #72. To: rowdee (#71) I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth. And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic' I truly believe you. I've grown weary of all the religious hatred spewed too. (And truthfully, the more I think I've learned the less I realize I know. Many of these issues have sane, bright, intelligent people on both sides and shouldn't be reduced to name calling squabbles. Doc was undeniably a Paulinist and he had a way of being all things to all people as prescribed by Paul. Rowdee, don't feel like this conversation needs to be extended. All things in their own time is good by me ! noone222 posted on 2008-10-06 12:38:04 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply End Trace Mode for Comment # 71. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Brickner described terrorist attacks on Israelis as Gods judgment of unbelief on Jews who have not converted to Christianity. What terrorist attacks? When you fight back against an oppressor and murderer of your people you are a terrorist? The only terrorist attacks over there are by the state of Israel. God's judgment on unbelievers has NOT occurred yet, if it had they would know it.
Brickner described terrorist attacks on Israelis as Gods judgment of unbelief on Jews who have not converted to Christianity.
What terrorist attacks?
When you fight back against an oppressor and murderer of your people you are a terrorist? The only terrorist attacks over there are by the state of Israel. God's judgment on unbelievers has NOT occurred yet, if it had they would know it.
RickyJ posted on 2008-10-05 5:04:11 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
God's judgment on unbelievers has NOT occurred yet, if it had they would know it. God punished unblieving Israelites all the time in the O/T. I think Brickner's statement is a bit of a stretch as it regards 'because they didn't convert to chr5istianity, because the Bible indicates they will when Messiah returns.They were unbelieving and disobeying God's instructions--that is why they went thru so many diasporas. And from my reading of Scripture and other materials, they still owned the land, but God refused to let them possess it.
God's judgment on unbelievers has NOT occurred yet, if it had they would know it.
God punished unblieving Israelites all the time in the O/T. I think Brickner's statement is a bit of a stretch as it regards 'because they didn't convert to chr5istianity, because the Bible indicates they will when Messiah returns.
They were unbelieving and disobeying God's instructions--that is why they went thru so many diasporas. And from my reading of Scripture and other materials, they still owned the land, but God refused to let them possess it.
rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 12:20:21 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
God punished unblieving Israelites all the time in the O/T Punishment and judgment are two different things. The present state of Israel has experienced neither. Dead Jews can't convert to Christianity and I see nowhere in the Bible where it says all the live ones will convert to Christianity when Jesus returns. Also the Bible is referring to real Jews, not the pretenders in Israel today.
God punished unblieving Israelites all the time in the O/T
Punishment and judgment are two different things. The present state of Israel has experienced neither. Dead Jews can't convert to Christianity and I see nowhere in the Bible where it says all the live ones will convert to Christianity when Jesus returns. Also the Bible is referring to real Jews, not the pretenders in Israel today.
RickyJ posted on 2008-10-05 12:27:08 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
I don't presume to know what blood flows through each and every Jew in Israel....nor do I presume to know their heart. To be punished, God would have judged that they did not do as they were supposed to do.......otherwise it would be an odd God that would punish first, doncha think? Of course, this is not the final judgement."Real Jews".........was Jesus a real Jew? I ask because he came along long after the diaspora to Babylon, and certainly the Assyrian diaspora.Furthermore, there were jewish communities in many cities all over the place before the Khazar storyline. So exactly how do you determine who has the right 'blood'.......and are you speaking religiously or ethnically/racially? And lets see your proof that each and every one of them are not 'jews'.
To be punished, God would have judged that they did not do as they were supposed to do.......otherwise it would be an odd God that would punish first, doncha think? Of course, this is not the final judgement.
"Real Jews".........was Jesus a real Jew? I ask because he came along long after the diaspora to Babylon, and certainly the Assyrian diaspora.
Furthermore, there were jewish communities in many cities all over the place before the Khazar storyline. So exactly how do you determine who has the right 'blood'.......and are you speaking religiously or ethnically/racially? And lets see your proof that each and every one of them are not 'jews'.
rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 12:37:54 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
And lets see your proof that each and every one of them are not 'jews'. The relevant point would be whether they were ISRAELITES/HEBREWS ... most "jews" today are actually gentiles (ashkenazi descendants of Japeth) that have converted to Judaism, have no ethnic relationship to Abraham (who was not a Jew) or Jacob/Israel (who was not a Jew) ... and are not entitled to claim the inheritance belonging to Israelites.
And lets see your proof that each and every one of them are not 'jews'.
The relevant point would be whether they were ISRAELITES/HEBREWS ... most "jews" today are actually gentiles (ashkenazi descendants of Japeth) that have converted to Judaism, have no ethnic relationship to Abraham (who was not a Jew) or Jacob/Israel (who was not a Jew) ... and are not entitled to claim the inheritance belonging to Israelites.
noone222 posted on 2008-10-05 13:00:15 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
I've not closed the book on this assertion, as I continue to read and study. There is much confusion and bs because of how the words have been intermingled all these years, i.e., Israelite/Hebrew/Jew.And stick in there ashkenazi and sephardic and khazar and yiddish and all other sorts of 'stuff', like diasporas of both the northern and southern kingdoms--and more than one. And there's a lot to sort through.In the meantime, I'll refrain from hating and despising, nor will I gush with pride and wishful desire to be a part of the mess.....thats been my position all along. I'm on a quest for truth, as far as I can determine it.
And stick in there ashkenazi and sephardic and khazar and yiddish and all other sorts of 'stuff', like diasporas of both the northern and southern kingdoms--and more than one. And there's a lot to sort through.
In the meantime, I'll refrain from hating and despising, nor will I gush with pride and wishful desire to be a part of the mess.....thats been my position all along. I'm on a quest for truth, as far as I can determine it.
rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 13:30:52 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
Genesis 10 2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. 4And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Ezekiel 38 (doesn't mention ashkenaz directly, but mentions the rest of the Japethetic lineage, Gomer and Togarmah) 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of [a] Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of [b] Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush [c] and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you. Genesis simply describes the descendants of Japeth, while Ezekiel describes THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL in the last times !
2The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
3And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
4And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and
Ezekiel 38 (doesn't mention ashkenaz directly, but mentions the rest of the Japethetic lineage, Gomer and Togarmah)
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of [a] Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of [b] Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush [c] and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.
Genesis simply describes the descendants of Japeth, while Ezekiel describes THE ENEMIES OF ISRAEL in the last times !
noone222 posted on 2008-10-05 14:36:06 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
noone, I've read this............I believe it. And Genesis also says, in 9:27 that God would enlarge Japeth and he would live in the tents of Shem--this was after Shem and Japeth clothed Noah's nakedness. Thus a familial relationship developed between these two tribes.That said, I've also read where when the kingdoms split that NOT ALL the northern tribes went into exile via Assyria==they went elsewhere, and they went southward, like as towards Judea.Furthermore, as trade developed, one saw Israelites, including Judeans, forming communities all over the known world..and that was before Christ was born. Do you have information that none of the Judeans went into Europe? Do you have information showing there was no intermarriage between 'shirttail relatives'. Can you prove that everyone in Israel is NOT of the tribe of Judah? Recall that Abraham, as well as Isaac sent for wives for their son(s) or sent the son(s) themselves to marry relatives in PadanAram. Scriptures talk often about 'remnants'....and that God will not forget the remnants. EVen when Nebuchadnezzar took the Judeans away into Babylon, not all Judeans were taken......some escaped into the desert, and some were left behind, and some were out of the area at the time of Jerusalem being taken.
That said, I've also read where when the kingdoms split that NOT ALL the northern tribes went into exile via Assyria==they went elsewhere, and they went southward, like as towards Judea.
Furthermore, as trade developed, one saw Israelites, including Judeans, forming communities all over the known world..and that was before Christ was born. Do you have information that none of the Judeans went into Europe? Do you have information showing there was no intermarriage between 'shirttail relatives'. Can you prove that everyone in Israel is NOT of the tribe of Judah? Recall that Abraham, as well as Isaac sent for wives for their son(s) or sent the son(s) themselves to marry relatives in PadanAram.
Scriptures talk often about 'remnants'....and that God will not forget the remnants. EVen when Nebuchadnezzar took the Judeans away into Babylon, not all Judeans were taken......some escaped into the desert, and some were left behind, and some were out of the area at the time of Jerusalem being taken.
rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 16:03:14 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
And Genesis also says, in 9:27 that God would enlarge Japeth and he would live in the tents of Shem--this was after Shem and Japeth clothed Noah's nakedness. Thus a familial relationship developed between these two tribes. This has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or promises made to his descendants. [Older Bibles used to have a map that showed Ham locating in Africa, Shem in the Middle-East and Japeth in Eastern Europe/Asia]. Ezekiel 38 is end times prophecy, and this book names the enemies of (true) Israel and it's not likely that the enemy of Israel would be Israel itself, is it ??? You ask for proof that inter-marriages didn't occur. We can assume that they did occur. The better question regarding "proof" should be asked of those that have invaded and have committed genocide against the Palestinians for the sake of installing some Eastern European/Russian people calling themselves Jews there. These People should have had PROOF that they descended from Abraham if they were to be given land Biblically promised to his descendants. [However, you're mentioning the tribe of Judah indicates that you're thinking that the State of Israel should have been instituted for the benefit of one tribe (maybe 2 if you count Benjamin) of 12 that were to share the promise doesn't it ]? Can you name one other nation founded by international force in support of a biblical claim ??? International Law has never upheld scriptural claims by force. The UN (God's enemy) has never supported scripture, but mandated this Jew fraud. Yes, Japeth does reside in the tents of Shem. That's why the Ashkenazi Jews (Japethites) are all over our government. No one can definitively say that inter-marriages didn't occur. It is pretty common knowledge that they were frowned upon clear up until this generation in America. Marriage licenses were instituted in America to LEGALIZE inter- marriage between blacks and whites, even though there were marriages between Indians and American settlers that weren't LICENSED. The establishment of the State of Israel should have required definitive proof of the claim made that these people were RETURNING to a land they or their ancestors once occupied. This proof was never required and has never been demonstrated even though millions have died. The Ashkenazi branch weren't converted to Judaism until 750 AD. Lastly, to institute/impose a SECULAR NATION STATE by invasion and warfare against an indigenous population that can prove they have lived there for well over a thousand years, based upon a religious determination contained in the Torah/Bible, a RELIGIOUS belief system NOT SHARED UNIVERSALLY, based upon an UNWITNESSED PROMISE, made by an INVISIBLE GOD, to a man 4000 years ago IS BEYOND LUDICROUS and most certainly an international CRIME committed by an international bully called the U.S. and Britain. However, to be completely truthful, Britain had a legitimate claim as the British (Brit-Ish means covenant man in Hebrew) are descendants of Abraham through Isaac, Israel, Judah. I believe they lost their claim based upon promises made to Abraham just like any other nation would if they departed the area for whatever reason.
And Genesis also says, in 9:27 that God would enlarge Japeth and he would live in the tents of Shem--this was after Shem and Japeth clothed Noah's nakedness. Thus a familial relationship developed between these two tribes.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Abraham or promises made to his descendants. [Older Bibles used to have a map that showed Ham locating in Africa, Shem in the Middle-East and Japeth in Eastern Europe/Asia].
Ezekiel 38 is end times prophecy, and this book names the enemies of (true) Israel and it's not likely that the enemy of Israel would be Israel itself, is it ??? You ask for proof that inter-marriages didn't occur. We can assume that they did occur.
The better question regarding "proof" should be asked of those that have invaded and have committed genocide against the Palestinians for the sake of installing some Eastern European/Russian people calling themselves Jews there. These People should have had PROOF that they descended from Abraham if they were to be given land Biblically promised to his descendants. [However, you're mentioning the tribe of Judah indicates that you're thinking that the State of Israel should have been instituted for the benefit of one tribe (maybe 2 if you count Benjamin) of 12 that were to share the promise doesn't it ]?
Can you name one other nation founded by international force in support of a biblical claim ???
International Law has never upheld scriptural claims by force. The UN (God's enemy) has never supported scripture, but mandated this Jew fraud.
Yes, Japeth does reside in the tents of Shem. That's why the Ashkenazi Jews (Japethites) are all over our government.
No one can definitively say that inter-marriages didn't occur. It is pretty common knowledge that they were frowned upon clear up until this generation in America. Marriage licenses were instituted in America to LEGALIZE inter- marriage between blacks and whites, even though there were marriages between Indians and American settlers that weren't LICENSED.
The establishment of the State of Israel should have required definitive proof of the claim made that these people were RETURNING to a land they or their ancestors once occupied. This proof was never required and has never been demonstrated even though millions have died. The Ashkenazi branch weren't converted to Judaism until 750 AD.
Lastly, to institute/impose a SECULAR NATION STATE by invasion and warfare against an indigenous population that can prove they have lived there for well over a thousand years, based upon a religious determination contained in the Torah/Bible, a RELIGIOUS belief system NOT SHARED UNIVERSALLY, based upon an UNWITNESSED PROMISE, made by an INVISIBLE GOD, to a man 4000 years ago IS BEYOND LUDICROUS and most certainly an international CRIME committed by an international bully called the U.S. and Britain.
However, to be completely truthful, Britain had a legitimate claim as the British (Brit-Ish means covenant man in Hebrew) are descendants of Abraham through Isaac, Israel, Judah. I believe they lost their claim based upon promises made to Abraham just like any other nation would if they departed the area for whatever reason.
noone222 posted on 2008-10-05 19:36:33 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
Believe as YOU wish, noone........And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't as you nor I what should have been done, did they?YOu should recall that Doc said so many times that God has his own way of doing things, and that they are not mans ways. As vehemently as you fight it, there is the chance that this is, indeed, God's will being worked in one of those 'mysterious' ways. He certainly won't be asking you or I for our approval or agreement. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across, or something...........geeze.......imagine that.
And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't as you nor I what should have been done, did they?
YOu should recall that Doc said so many times that God has his own way of doing things, and that they are not mans ways. As vehemently as you fight it, there is the chance that this is, indeed, God's will being worked in one of those 'mysterious' ways. He certainly won't be asking you or I for our approval or agreement. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across, or something...........geeze.......imagine that.
rowdee posted on 2008-10-05 20:58:52 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't ask you nor I what should have been done, did they? There are still people being slaughtered and WW III looms large because of the State of Israel. Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks proves that the debate isn't over. Maybe we should ASK even though they haven't asked us. Taxpayers are expected to financially support this foreign state and should have a voice. My generation is supposed to stand still for the mistakes of those prior generations ??? I think the Federal Reserve System, The Income Tax and the State of Israel are just three examples of errors we have a duty to correct. What about future generations being forced to accept our errors ? $850 Billion or more bailout of criminal bankers comes immediately to mind. YOu should recall that Doc said so many times that God has his own way of doing things, and that they are not mans ways. As vehemently as you fight it, there is the chance that this is, indeed, God's will being worked in one of those 'mysterious' ways. He certainly won't be asking you or I for our approval or agreement. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across, or something...........geeze.......imagine that. This last comment referencing Doc is of a fatalist nature . The conditions causing so much dissatisfaction today exist because so many were willing to accept or go along to get along with bad decisions made in their name. My vehement fight is against those claiming that the State of Israel is fulfillment of scripture. My prayers conclude with "your (God's) will be done, not mine" ... so, please don't confuse my position as one opposed to God's because it is in opposition to those claiming a scriptural basis for establishing the State of Israel. (Doc also said that we needn't leave our brain at the door). Doc tip-toed around this (Jewish) issue and probably for very good reasons. Being tagged as a proponent of "British- Israelism" or "Christian Identity" being the primary one, in my opinion. He did say "don't throw the baby out with the bath water". [Here I agree with Doc, and am not a Christian Identity or British-Israelism proponent, just a Bible student that thinks it important that we separate God's Will from what scripture states because by confusing the two things we may be imposing our will based upon a false understanding of scripture.] Truth being the all important issue for me since God said "I am Truth". Whether the State of Israel is God's will or not (which it very well might be) has no bearing upon what the BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS or what people believe or what's acceptable according to man's secular (International) law. If one is to believe the Bible is God's word, then one should believe what it "actually" says. The end times prophecy of Ezekiel leaves very little room for interpretation as regards who are the enemies of Israel and it happens that they are primarily Japeth's descendants along with the Arabs. To think that these named enemies of Israel are at the same time Israel itself is an impossibility and NOT BIBLICAL. The scripture that most Christians resort to when confronted about this subject is one where God tells Abraham that anyone cursing "HIS DESCENDANTS" (here most Christians insert the word Jews, which isn't Biblical and Abraham's descendants weren't Jews with the possible exception of the single tribe of Judah) will be cursed. This one scripture being misinterpreted causes many people to ignore the terrible deeds done by the so-called Jews, when Jesus instructed his followers to judge them (everyone) by their deeds. Judge the tree by its fruit. If this is applied to the State of Israel as we know it today it is a poison apple, instituted through fraud and murder by men not God. The conclusion being drawn amongst Christian/Zionist supporters of the State of Israel while unproven is that modern day Jews are actually descended from Abraham (which according to Christ/God would mean that they would hear Christ's voice but can't because they are not of his and are primarily atheists) and at best would make-up only two of the twelve tribes given the promise. These disputations relative to scripture should be based upon solid scriptural evidence and not upon interpretations of men. Even then, these scriptural determinations between Christians, even if agreed upon, shouldn't have any more effect upon International Law than other religious writings that are sometimes believed by more people than believe the Bible. In other words, the my God is bigger than your God theory would rule the day and the religious choice of the victor would (and has been) be imposed upon non-believers. [What people choose to believe and what is truth are very often two completely different things aren't they ?] Let me be clear in what I'm saying. If you were to ask me if I believe that the State of Israel's existence is God's Will, I would answer "it exists so it must be God's Will" with this caveat, it exists by and through fraud contrary to traditional practices of law, defies logic, has man's finger prints all over it, has been a boil upon mankind since its inception, and I don't think it has a basis in scripture. That is not to say it isn't God's Will. Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across No argument from me about this statement at all. If something exists its difficult, if not impossible, to say it does so in opposition to God's Will. However, just because something might be God's Will doesn't make it scriptural. We are admonished to study the scriptures to "show ourselves approved". When the issue of Abrahamic Covenant vs. The State of Israel is thoroughly studied we can hardly avoid noticing that the people we call Jews today haven't fulfilled any of the promises contained therein. The tendency within Christianity is to simply accept the teachings of men to the exclusion of scripture. Simply put, God's Will is one thing and Scriptural (documentation) evidence is another. If, as in your case, you want to believe that the State of Israel is God's Will I wouldn't argue for a second. If you said that the State of Israel as we see it today is scriptural, I'd say I think you're wrong.
And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't ask you nor I what should have been done, did they?
And a lot of good it does to sit here some 60 odd years later and debate what should/shouldn't/could/couldn't/would/wouldn't be done is what is ludricous. They didn't ask you nor I what should have been done, did they?
There are still people being slaughtered and WW III looms large because of the State of Israel. Palestinian kids throwing rocks at tanks proves that the debate isn't over. Maybe we should ASK even though they haven't asked us. Taxpayers are expected to financially support this foreign state and should have a voice.
My generation is supposed to stand still for the mistakes of those prior generations ??? I think the Federal Reserve System, The Income Tax and the State of Israel are just three examples of errors we have a duty to correct.
What about future generations being forced to accept our errors ? $850 Billion or more bailout of criminal bankers comes immediately to mind.
This last comment referencing Doc is of a fatalist nature . The conditions causing so much dissatisfaction today exist because so many were willing to accept or go along to get along with bad decisions made in their name. My vehement fight is against those claiming that the State of Israel is fulfillment of scripture. My prayers conclude with "your (God's) will be done, not mine" ... so, please don't confuse my position as one opposed to God's because it is in opposition to those claiming a scriptural basis for establishing the State of Israel.
(Doc also said that we needn't leave our brain at the door). Doc tip-toed around this (Jewish) issue and probably for very good reasons. Being tagged as a proponent of "British- Israelism" or "Christian Identity" being the primary one, in my opinion. He did say "don't throw the baby out with the bath water". [Here I agree with Doc, and am not a Christian Identity or British-Israelism proponent, just a Bible student that thinks it important that we separate God's Will from what scripture states because by confusing the two things we may be imposing our will based upon a false understanding of scripture.] Truth being the all important issue for me since God said "I am Truth".
Whether the State of Israel is God's will or not (which it very well might be) has no bearing upon what the BIBLE ACTUALLY SAYS or what people believe or what's acceptable according to man's secular (International) law.
If one is to believe the Bible is God's word, then one should believe what it "actually" says. The end times prophecy of Ezekiel leaves very little room for interpretation as regards who are the enemies of Israel and it happens that they are primarily Japeth's descendants along with the Arabs. To think that these named enemies of Israel are at the same time Israel itself is an impossibility and NOT BIBLICAL.
The scripture that most Christians resort to when confronted about this subject is one where God tells Abraham that anyone cursing "HIS DESCENDANTS" (here most Christians insert the word Jews, which isn't Biblical and Abraham's descendants weren't Jews with the possible exception of the single tribe of Judah) will be cursed. This one scripture being misinterpreted causes many people to ignore the terrible deeds done by the so-called Jews, when Jesus instructed his followers to judge them (everyone) by their deeds. Judge the tree by its fruit. If this is applied to the State of Israel as we know it today it is a poison apple, instituted through fraud and murder by men not God.
The conclusion being drawn amongst Christian/Zionist supporters of the State of Israel while unproven is that modern day Jews are actually descended from Abraham (which according to Christ/God would mean that they would hear Christ's voice but can't because they are not of his and are primarily atheists) and at best would make-up only two of the twelve tribes given the promise.
These disputations relative to scripture should be based upon solid scriptural evidence and not upon interpretations of men. Even then, these scriptural determinations between Christians, even if agreed upon, shouldn't have any more effect upon International Law than other religious writings that are sometimes believed by more people than believe the Bible. In other words, the my God is bigger than your God theory would rule the day and the religious choice of the victor would (and has been) be imposed upon non-believers. [What people choose to believe and what is truth are very often two completely different things aren't they ?]
Let me be clear in what I'm saying. If you were to ask me if I believe that the State of Israel's existence is God's Will, I would answer "it exists so it must be God's Will" with this caveat, it exists by and through fraud contrary to traditional practices of law, defies logic, has man's finger prints all over it, has been a boil upon mankind since its inception, and I don't think it has a basis in scripture. That is not to say it isn't God's Will.
Why, we might evene have gotten that damnable Dubya because God was trying to get a point across
No argument from me about this statement at all. If something exists its difficult, if not impossible, to say it does so in opposition to God's Will. However, just because something might be God's Will doesn't make it scriptural.
We are admonished to study the scriptures to "show ourselves approved". When the issue of Abrahamic Covenant vs. The State of Israel is thoroughly studied we can hardly avoid noticing that the people we call Jews today haven't fulfilled any of the promises contained therein. The tendency within Christianity is to simply accept the teachings of men to the exclusion of scripture. Simply put, God's Will is one thing and Scriptural (documentation) evidence is another.
If, as in your case, you want to believe that the State of Israel is God's Will I wouldn't argue for a second. If you said that the State of Israel as we see it today is scriptural, I'd say I think you're wrong.
noone222 posted on 2008-10-06 5:01:40 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
, as in your case, you want to believe that the State of Israel is God's Will I wouldn't argue for a second. If you said that the State of Israel as we see it today is scriptural, I'd say I think you're wrong I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth.And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic'.......I may eventually arrive at the answer they seemingly have, but I'm sick of all the bullshit and hate one has to wade thru with way too many people to get to their position, or supposed position.So, if it takes me 20 years, so be it. The concept that the current state of Israel may be a part of God's plan, may be what we consider fatalistic; no doubt God would think otherwise--as Doc stressed, mans ways are not Gods way.I don't much give a damn for labeling anything and everything I come across. That Doc presented much of the Lost Tribe information was interesting and informative; I didn't sit here and try to analyze whether he was a zionist, a britishite, or just a man of God. It really isn't important to me. It wouldn't change my opinion of him one way or the other.You said a lot more, but i don't feel like responding much more this morning..........cheers.
, as in your case, you want to believe that the State of Israel is God's Will I wouldn't argue for a second. If you said that the State of Israel as we see it today is scriptural, I'd say I think you're wrong
I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth.
And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic'.......I may eventually arrive at the answer they seemingly have, but I'm sick of all the bullshit and hate one has to wade thru with way too many people to get to their position, or supposed position.
So, if it takes me 20 years, so be it.
The concept that the current state of Israel may be a part of God's plan, may be what we consider fatalistic; no doubt God would think otherwise--as Doc stressed, mans ways are not Gods way.
I don't much give a damn for labeling anything and everything I come across. That Doc presented much of the Lost Tribe information was interesting and informative; I didn't sit here and try to analyze whether he was a zionist, a britishite, or just a man of God. It really isn't important to me. It wouldn't change my opinion of him one way or the other.
You said a lot more, but i don't feel like responding much more this morning..........cheers.
rowdee posted on 2008-10-06 12:28:06 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
#72. To: rowdee (#71) I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth. And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic' I truly believe you. I've grown weary of all the religious hatred spewed too. (And truthfully, the more I think I've learned the less I realize I know. Many of these issues have sane, bright, intelligent people on both sides and shouldn't be reduced to name calling squabbles. Doc was undeniably a Paulinist and he had a way of being all things to all people as prescribed by Paul. Rowdee, don't feel like this conversation needs to be extended. All things in their own time is good by me ! noone222 posted on 2008-10-06 12:38:04 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply End Trace Mode for Comment # 71. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth. And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic' I truly believe you. I've grown weary of all the religious hatred spewed too. (And truthfully, the more I think I've learned the less I realize I know. Many of these issues have sane, bright, intelligent people on both sides and shouldn't be reduced to name calling squabbles. Doc was undeniably a Paulinist and he had a way of being all things to all people as prescribed by Paul. Rowdee, don't feel like this conversation needs to be extended. All things in their own time is good by me !
I don't want to believe any preset concept, noone.......I am only searching for the truth. And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic'
And as an aside, when I hear/see/read people going bonkers with all the name-calling, label-calling, crap, I turn off to their 'argument' or their 'logic'
I truly believe you.
I've grown weary of all the religious hatred spewed too. (And truthfully, the more I think I've learned the less I realize I know.
Many of these issues have sane, bright, intelligent people on both sides and shouldn't be reduced to name calling squabbles.
Doc was undeniably a Paulinist and he had a way of being all things to all people as prescribed by Paul.
Rowdee, don't feel like this conversation needs to be extended. All things in their own time is good by me !
noone222 posted on 2008-10-06 12:38:04 ET Reply Untrace Trace Private Reply
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