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Title: Judge denies stay, orders discovery of Obama's birth certificates
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 9, 2008
Author: Starwind
Post Date: 2008-10-09 12:18:48 by Starwind
Keywords: None
Views: 3167
Comments: 101

Follow it free at BERG v. OBAMA et al (Justia) (not updated yet)

Follow it via Pacer at United States District Court Eastern District of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia) CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 2:08-cv-04083-RBS (current as of this AM)

This AM, Judge R. Barclay Surrick, J. ordered (document #18):

ORDERED and DECREED as follows:

1. Defendants Motion for Protective Order Staying Discovery pending the Court's Decision on Defendants dispositive Motion is DENIED;
2. Defendants are hereby ORDERED to Answer Plaintiff's Discovery Requests by way of Admissions and Request for Production of Documents by October 15, 2008.

Poster Comment:

This could be a game changer.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

And you know, he was born in Hawai'i. And I don't give a shit about this circle jerk you all are doing in here with one of many Swift Boat style liefests about Barack Obama.

Stop bothering me with it.

What is Obama Hiding?

Why won't he present his documents?

America does not need another "sneaky" president.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-14   23:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

"Now, go climb a very tall tree and with some luck, you'll fall out."

Too late, already did that; have the scars to prove it too.

And I like Tori Amos a hell of allot more then I like a dead Soviet leader.

"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-10-14   23:46:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If you can't get a clue, buy a vowel.

Do you fucking think that by spamming me I am going to suddenly take nonsense seriously?

No. Now your delusions and myopia are your problem, you deal with it, I cannot help you.

"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-10-14   23:48:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If you can't get a clue, buy a vowel.

The heart of Berg’s lawsuit claims three things.

1. Senator Obama is not a naturalized citizen and/or

2. Lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia and/or

3. Has dual or conflicting national loyalties because of his citizenship with Kenya and Indonesia.

Senator Obama is not a naturalized citizen and/or 2. Lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia and/or 3. Has dual or conflicting national loyalties because of his citizenship with Kenya and Indonesia.

Berg alleges Obama’s Hawaiian birth certificate from the state of Hawaii is a forgery per three independent document forensic experts. He alleges Obama was born in Kenya as his mother (Stanley Ann Dunham, aged 18) traveled there with her husband, Barack Obama, a Kenyan national, but was prevented from flying back to Hawaii because of the late stage of her pregnancy. [Wiki trivia: Obama, Sr. and Dunham married in 1961 while Obama, Sr. was still married to his first wife from Kenya, whom he never divorced. Obama, Sr. is dead now, but divorced from Dunham in 1964. So the Barackcuda is literally a son of a bigamist.] Berg claims Obama's own paternal grandmother, half-brother and half-sister have also claimed the same; that Barack was born in Kenya and his mother subsequently flew to Hawaii to register the birth. If Obama was truly born in Kenya, Berg claims, the contemporary laws hold that U.S. citizenship may only pass to a child born overseas to a U.S. citizen parent and non-citizen parent if the former was at least 19 years of age. As Ms. Dunham was too young, therefore citizenship could not legally be passed on to him. Therefore Obama could not be registered as a "natural born" citizen and would therefore be ineligible to seek the presidency pursuant to Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-14   23:51:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Now your delusions and myopia are your problem, you deal with it, I cannot help you.

What is Obama Hiding?

Why won't he present his documents?

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-14   23:52:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Why don't motorcycles have doors?

Why don't ducks come with talons?

"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-10-14   23:55:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Spam scrollby. Didn't read it of course, but I am amused by your anal behavior, Perry Mason.

"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-10-14   23:56:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What is Obama Hiding?

Why won't he present his documents?

Those are good questions. You would think that if Obama is actually an American citizen, born in Hawaii as he claims he was, that it shouldn't be a big problem to produce an original birth certificate proving it. The fact that he hasn't done so seems to indicate a problem with his citizenship OR a lack of character. Wouldn't any sane person running for president produce a real birth certificate if their eligibility were questioned?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-10-14   23:58:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Didn't read it of course.

You probably wouldn't understand it.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-15   0:00:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What is Obama Hiding?

Why won't he present his documents?

Those are good questions. You would think that if Obama is actually an American citizen, born in Hawaii as he claims he was, that it shouldn't be a big problem to produce an original birth certificate proving it. The fact that he hasn't done so seems to indicate a problem with his citizenship OR a lack of character. Wouldn't any sane person running for president produce a real birth certificate if their eligibility were questioned?

Obama is hiding for sure.

It is a long time until election day.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-15   0:02:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama said he was born in two-different Hawaii hospitals.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-10-15   0:07:01 ET  (6 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Now, now. Let's not insult Times Square hookers. They at least make an honest living, if not a sincere one.

Eggzacutigly! I see no reason to insult hookers with comparisons to lying politicians.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-10-15   0:10:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Conservative radio hosts repeat discredited claim that Obama has not produced valid U.S. birth certificate

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-15   0:12:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Note carefully, the video was made before the Judge denied Obama's move to stay discovery, and the Judge just two days ago Ordered Obama and the DNC to produce the documents and answer the questions as part of Berg's discovery. The Judge gave Obama until Wednesday, Oct 15th to provide documents and answers. Given a couple days grace, by Friday Obama will: a) Appeal, which in itself will be newsworthy b) Provide answers, which will again be newsworthy c) do nothing, missing the deadline, which will again be newsworthy

Are you sure? There was some confusion about this when people who read the order prepared by Berg (that's how its done-the attorney requesting an order prepares it for the judge's sig) didn't realize that it was not signed, but, they reported it as if the judge had written the order instead of Berg as part of his original filing.

And, according to the docket (with it's latest entry being 10/09) the only order so far is the denial of the motion for TRO below:

August 22, 2008 4 ORDER THAT UPON CONSIDERATION OF PLAINITFF'S MOTION FOR TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORDER (DOC. NO. 2) AND AFTER HAVING A HEARING IN OPEN COURT IT IS ORDERED THAT THE MOTION IS DENIED. SIGNED BY HONORABLE R. BARCLAY SURRICK ON 8/22/08. 8/22/08 ENTERED AND COPIES FAXED FROM CHAMBERS. (jpd) (Entered: August 22, 2008)

___________________________

It is my belief that besides the routine denial of the restraining order nothing else has been ordered by the court to date.

Here's a link for someone who made the mistake then apologized.

Here's the same mistake with the second poster setting the first one straight on his boo boo.

And, one more.

Judge Orders Obama to Produce Birth Certificate

08 Oct

Posted by MacRanger as 2008 Election, Barack Obama, Election 2008

Hmmmmm…

” This article is a rewrite of last week’s article on Philip J. Berg’s lawsuit to force Barack Obama to produce a certified copy of his original birth certificate. On Sept. 24 the DNC filed a motion to dismiss the Berg action, which sent Berg scrambling to file a response, which was filed on Sept. 29, providing the date and material which led to my confusion that the order had been signed. Accept my mea culpas. The moment I realized the error I called News With Views and had the article pulled, and posted a recant on my website as well. Here is the most current information on the case, taken from court documents. — Jon Christian Ryter

On September 29, 2008 Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg, filed a response to a motion to dismiss by defendant Barack Obama who was joined in his effort to quash Berg’s lawsuit by the Democratic National Committee, claiming it has no standing to proceed. Berg argued in the brief response that he has provided the precedents which establish the standing and petitioned US District Court Judge R. Barclay Surrick of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania to pursue the case. In his Sept. 29 filing, Berg said: “Plaintiff served discovery in way of Admissions and Request for Production of Documents, on Defendants on September 15, 2008 and has attempted to obtain verification of Obama’s eligibility through subpoenas to the government entities and the hospital’s in Hawaii. To date, Plaintiffs and two of (2) the locations, which subpoenas were served upon, refused to honor the subpoenas.

“For the above aforementioned reasons, Plaintiff respectfully request Defendants and the Democratic National Committee’s Motion to Dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) be denied and order immediate discovery (the unsigned order requiring Obama to produce…” within three (3) days{

The judge ordered, “Having reviewed the motion and plaintiff’s opposition to said motion and for good cause shown, it is hereby ordered that the motion to dismiss pursuant to F.R.C.P. 12(b)(1) and 12(b)(6) is denied. It is further order of this court that the following discovery is to be turned over to plaintiff within three (3) days.

1. Obama’s “vault” version (certified copy of his “original” long version) birth certificate; and 2. a certified copy of Obama’s Certificate of Citizenship; 3. a certified copy of Obama’s oath of allegiance.”

The certified copy of the citizen of the world’s “oath of allegiance” to the United Sates is a document attesting to the fact that the newly “naturalized” citizen (usually an immigrant who has just been granted citizenship) or for native born Americans who have forfeited or otherwise surrendered their citizenship, and have requested reinstatement at their majority, usually 18, has sworn allegiance to the United States and its Constitution.”

October surprise? 10 Responses

1.

Larry Sheldon

October 8th, 2008 at 9:41 am 1

I have not bothered to check it again this morning, but for every previous time I have seen this, I have checked, and found:

The only evidence for this “order” is the draft of the desired order in Berg’s filing.

I have not found court records of a signed and recorded order.

There is enough wrong with Obama in the stuff Obama has said in recent times. We don’t need this crap that is so easy to shoot down. 2.

clarice

October 8th, 2008 at 9:44 am 2

DITTO–This is the Lie that will not die! 3.

Larry Sheldon

October 8th, 2008 at 11:53 am 3

Just by way of comparison, here is what ab order looks like.

Note date, signature, and absence of other matrerial in the PDF 4.

Larry Sheldon

October 8th, 2008 at 11:53 am 4

Ooops. (He forgot the link)

link

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-15   0:13:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Conservative radio hosts repeat discredited claim that Obama has not produced valid U.S. birth certificate

How has it been "discredited"? Has he, in the eleventh hour, actually produced a VALID, authentic original birth certificate? If so, I haven't heard about it and I have been trying to keep up with it.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-10-15   0:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Conservative radio hosts repeat discredited claim that Obama has not produced valid U.S. birth certificate

How has it been "discredited"? Has he, in the eleventh hour, actually produced a VALID, authentic original birth certificate? If so, I haven't heard about it and I have been trying to keep up with it.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-15   0:22:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And, according to the docket (with it's latest entry being 10/09) the only order so far is the denial of the motion for TRO below:

No, the latest entry on 10/09 (which it seems you've not read yet) is in fact the Judge's Order denying Obama's move to stay discovery, and Obama is Ordered to answer Berg's discovery requests and produce documents by Oct 15th (tomorrow).

The Judge has deferred his decision on Obama's motion to dismiss, pending the discovery which the Judge ordered. i.e. the Judge might yet dismiss if the results of discovery warrant it, or the Judge might proceed to trial if discovery (or lack thereof) demonstrates Berg's case has merit.

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-15   0:37:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Just listened to that on the other thread. I agree, he should just stand in front of the cameras with a legitimate, authentic, Hawaiian birth certificate IF HE HAS ONE. And if he doesn't he should get out of the race. It ain't complicated--if he is not an American by birth he is not eligible to be president (and that is not saying that he would be a good president, only that if he is an American he is eligible to run for the office and if he isn't he is not eligible). That should be simple enough even for a "brilliant Harvard lawyer" to understand.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-10-15   0:39:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

America Betrayed

October 14, 2008 (10:00 )

Phil J. Berg will appear on America Betrayed, hosted by John Clark

10 p.m. - 11 p.m. Eastern

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-15   0:39:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Thanks.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2008-10-15   0:40:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Well great!

But I have to ask.

If it hasn't been posted to the docket yet, then, you know this HOW?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-15   0:47:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If it hasn't been posted to the docket yet, then, you know this HOW?

Because it has been posted to the docket, doc #18 on 10/9/08

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-15   0:49:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2008-10-15   0:50:48 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

by the PTB to unseat obama and replace him with guess who

I seriously doubt that--are they really crazy enough to think that the blacks would take such an action just laying down? Between riots from coast to coast, along with destruction of polling places where voting couldn't take place, I doubt HC would get much more than a wave as the military passed by in APCs or Strykers or tanks.

rowdee  posted on  2008-10-15   0:55:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Because it has been posted to the docket, doc #18 on 10/9/08

Entry # 18 is Berg's response to Obama's and the DNC's motion for protective order. (entry 15)

Does your docket entry 18 differ from this one?

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-15   0:57:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

are they really crazy enough to think that the blacks would take such an action just laying down?

Whose to say that isn't part of the plan?

farmfriend  posted on  2008-10-15   0:58:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Entry # 18 is Berg's response to Obama's and the DNC's motion for protective order. (entry 15)

Not entirely. Doc #18 is the Judge's order and also attaches Berg's response

Read the order and stop assuming.

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/ district-courts/pennsylvania/ paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/18/0.pdf

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-15   1:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Not entirely. Doc #18 is the Judge's order and also attaches Berg's response

Read the order and stop assuming.

I think the words you're looking for are,

"I apologize Dawg. I was mistaken. I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

And then you included a link for the original filing?

Lemme guess. You've never personally prepared or filed a court case, have you?

I'll try one more time to explain things to you.

Had the judge signed the order prepared by Berg in the original filing 6 days ago it would be listed on the docket as ORDER like entry # 4.

It isn't. He didn't and you are mistaken.

I hope you'll be Christian enough to apologize when it finally sinks in.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-15   1:15:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I hope you'll be Christian enough to apologize when it finally sinks in.

If you're proven right, absolutely.

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-15   1:17:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Apparently you didn't read the links I posted where other novices read the original filing and assumed they were court orders.

There's even a link for a court order that's signed by the judge (for illustration purposes) which the link you provided wasn't by the way. And, why wasn't it signed? Because it was the original filing by Philip Berg, not a court order!

I've educated many people who want to learn and there's no shame in being confused about the gibberish employed by the courts.

But, I resent your smokescreen, telling me to "stop assuming" after you said it was docket entry #18, I showed you that it wasn't and then you implied that court orders can somehow exist for 6 days without being recorded on the docket, or that a filing in response to a motion would be somehow more important than a court order and therefore displace or include without reference a judge's order on the docket. That's just plain silly.

I've been filing in federal courts for over 20 years. It's not a religious belief, it's a system with no surprises (at least to me) about the procedures used.

You obviously heard a rumor or misread the same court filings without knowing the difference between an attorney's prepared motion and a signed court order, and you haven't the character to admit when you're obviously wrong.

(I'll give you the benefit of any doubt about your intelligence and assume you know you are mistaken. Everyone else reading this does)

An insult is a poor substitute for proof. And, federal court orders don't exist for 6 days without being added to the docket.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-15   1:31:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

There's even a link for a court order that's signed by the judge (for illustration purposes) which the link you provided wasn't by the way.

Yes I read that one, I agree #4 has the Judges sig whereas #18 doesn't.

And, why wasn't it signed? Because it was the original filing by Philip Berg, not a court order!

Agree there as well.

But, I resent your smokescreen, telling me to "stop assuming" after you said it was docket entry #18,

It wasn't a smokescreen. It thought you were assuming there was no order within doc #18.

You obviously heard a rumor or misread the same court filings without knowing the difference between an attorney's prepared motion and a signed court order,

Judges often ask attorneys to prepare orders for their signature, language is reviewed by the clerks, and filed. Then the Judge signs it. I will grant you a signed order is not on the docket and I may well have prematurely assumed the Judge had signed it and it wasn't yet filed.

and you haven't the character to admit when you're obviously wrong.

Both when I'm possibly wrong, as well as obviously wrong, as the case may be.

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-15   1:44:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I've been filing in federal courts for over 20 years.

I'm sure you have. Selling kiddy porn is getting harder all the time, isn't it?

It's the second mouse that gets the cheese

Flintlock  posted on  2008-10-15   2:51:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Its possible, of course, but I believe unlikely, as mobs are not easily controlled, nor is the destruction they cause, nor are they very selective in who or what is destroyed. You have only to look at the LA riots to see that as the truth.

rowdee  posted on  2008-10-15   13:35:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Its possible, of course, but I believe unlikely, as mobs are not easily controlled, nor is the destruction they cause, nor are they very selective in who or what is destroyed. You have only to look at the LA riots to see that as the truth.

You missed my point. That distruction is what they want. Like 9/11 it gives them the excuse they need to instill more fascism. It is the racial divide that helps to feed the fascist machine. The details of what or who gets distroyed is immaterial.

farmfriend  posted on  2008-10-15   13:41:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So they wipe out all the usa.....then what........do you think the ptb would be content with trying to train the continent of africa to learn to cater to their needs--whatever their needs would be.

As the game plays out, power concentrates more and more into a smaller and smaller group---but there is always someone a little hungrier for the top post than the rest. And while they might get that post based on their intellectual hankypanky, they will need their minions to keep it, regardless of whether it is against just a handful of opponents or a mass of opponents.

As 'brilliant' as those are at the top, they still need the drones to keep the trains running....I guess that is what I am trying to say.

rowdee  posted on  2008-10-15   19:16:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

So, the "defendants" (respondents) didn't answer by the 15th, and Berg did not enter a motion for summary judgment or a motion for a writ of mandamus to disqualify Obama from running for president.

In fact, no entries have been made to the docket despite the default deadline being three days past.

Hmmm, I don't want to "assume" anything so, I'll wait for Starwind to explain this to all of us stoopids.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-18   23:27:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

In fact, no entries have been made to the docket despite the default deadline being three days past.

Indeed not. I was clearly mistaken in my expectation that the Judge would have signed what I understood he had requested.

Nor has there been any status on Obama's motion to stay discovery and Berg's response. There is a hearing scheduled on the 21st. Perhaps some information on what has or hasn't transpired will be forthcoming then.

Hmmm, I don't want to "assume" anything so, I'll wait for Starwind to explain this to all of us stoopids.

Nowhere did I state or imply you, Christine or flintlock were "stoopids", but then this also seems to have gone well beyond your simple desire to correct my mistake.

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-19   13:07:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

FWIW, I note with further chagrin that Obama has today filed a motion to dismiss accompanied by unsigned Order from the Judge.

As both unsigned Orders are contradictory, ostensibly the Judge asked for neither, and I incorrectly assumed he had requested and would sign the one prepared by Berg ordering discovery.

(Be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves)

Starwind  posted on  2008-10-20   21:19:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

FWIW, I note with further chagrin that Obama has today filed a motion to dismiss accompanied by unsigned Order from the Judge.

As both unsigned Orders are contradictory, ostensibly the Judge asked for neither, and I incorrectly assumed he had requested and would sign the one prepared by Berg ordering discove

And, the more familiar you become with the gibberish lawyers employ (in order to mystify and over charge us) the more certain you'll become that they deliberately complicate the system to keep it a closed shop.

Justice is an amazingly simple concept and a fair, impartial Christian man would have little trouble settling disputes.

But Justice as we understand it is a negative concept, i.e. the absence of injustice.

THEY define it as "The systematic and perpetual disposition of legal disputes rendering each man his due." (Black's Law Dictionary) Can you see the difference? Where we seek the absence of injustice, their definition is a fervent prayer for a "systematic and perpetual" source of income like the grinding out of link sausage, and the truth is not the ultimate goal for them.

Obviously the system does not "render each man his due" and in fact it's heavily weighted in favor of the wealthier adversary and the better connected attorney(s).

It is perfectly understandable why you'd assume that reason would prevail and that you'd mistake a motion drafted by counsel as a court order. After all, you're a fair, impartial man and assume the system was based on justice, as did I when I started wrangling with the feds decades ago.

Once I essentially learned a second language (a tedious process in order to understand well enough to file as a pro se litigant-defendant) I realized that just like the pre-Vatican II Latin Mass this legal gibberish could be completely simplified if they wanted us to understand it.

HOUNDDAWG  posted on  2008-10-26   18:15:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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