See other Immigration Articles
Title: GOP bill would force illegal aliens to leave [another amnesty plan]
Source:
Seattle PI
URL Source: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/233283_border20.html
Published: Jul 20, 2005
Author: PATRINA A. BOSTIC
Post Date: 2005-07-20 16:21:49 by Mr Nuke Buzzcut
Ping List: *The Border*
Keywords: [another, illegal, amnesty
Views: 374
Comments: 41
By PATRINA A. BOSTIC WASHINGTON -- Two border-state Republican senators proposed legislation yesterday that would require every illegal immigrant -- estimated at 10 million -- to leave the United States and return to the nation they came from within five years. The bill, by Sens. John Cornyn of Texas and Jon Kyl of Arizona, would establish temporary work permits renewable for up to six years and would require employers to provide health insurance to workers. It also calls for tougher border security and law enforcement measures. Undocumented immigrants would be required to depart the United States voluntarily and re-enter through legal channels, by applying for permanent residency or a temporary work permit. "We have promised, as part of this bill, to remove the obstacles to the qualifying individuals to re-enter the country and to establish themselves legally," Cornyn told reporters. He said most of the immigrants would "realize that we really are serious, not just about forcing them to leave the country, but we're serious about opening legal channels so that people who want to work and who are needed by the American economy can work and live in the United States, that we will provide them a path to do so." The measure, which the senators hope to bring to a full vote in the fall, contrasts with the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill introduced in May that would pave the way for illegal immigrants already in the United States to obtain legal employment status and citizenship. John Keeley, director of communications for the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington, D.C.-based group that advocates stricter immigration controls, said the Cornyn and Kyl bill gives illegal immigrants too much time to leave the country. "One level of concern is that it gives illegal immigrants five years to leave the country. We would have preferred to see the lawmakers support a stricter spirit of enforcement, as opposed to this generous leeway for lawbreaking. Five years is a long period of time during which a lot can happen politically for this population."
Poster Comment:GOP bill would force illegal aliens to leave
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#1. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
They insist upon wrecking this place and driving everybody out of business..
By "leave the country", I'll bet that setting foot onto the grounds of a Mexican consulate, embassy, or fast food joint would satisfy their requirements.
Truth is like sunshine, people use to think it was good for them - Nancy Gribble
So long as it is *just* a work permit *and* the work permit has *no* channels to citizenship, I'm for it simply because it will put the screws to employers. Although, five years is a long time.... No permanent residency or citizenship on a work permit and NO AUTOMATIC CITIZENSHIP FOR OFFSPRING. Then I'm happy.
Deportation is the only thing that would make me happy. Anything less is a slap in the face to all who enter the country legally. Not to mention that each and every time we grant another amnesty it just invites millions more to break the law.
Absolutely! What makes me happy about this is that they have to GO HOME to apply for the work permit. This is a first and this part makes the folks that came legally I know very happy. Although, unless this sucker has REAL teeth in it, like public tar and feathering/flogging/carrying signs/public stocks etc. of employers AND illegal aliens - and any other enabler thereof - what good is it?
This plan is a mirage,Mirage.The old bait and switch that fools the sheeple every time.Have you ever heard Gwb's fool me once statement?This plan is just as laughable.
how stupid do they think we are?
Its the best we have right now. It is *barely* acceptable.
Very stupid.The constant re-election of these Bozo's is proof positive.
I hate to say this, but we need to stop and take a big breath here. Many of us are awakening to the propostion that there is a coming conflict - perhaps a great and protracted one - over resources & energy. God help us if our neighbors cannot be counted upon as friends. Travel around a modern European city like Antwerp and see how Muslim immigrants crowd former Flemish nieghborhoods and how resistant they are to assimilation. I would MUCH, MUCH rather have to deal with the immigration problem that we have in our country than the one the French, the Germans, the Dutch or the Belgian are saddled with. Mexicans are by and large hard-working, appreciate the generally law-and-order society that we represent, where day-to-day corruption is rare, and where they get a fair break most of the time. They are mostly Catholic and celebrate the same cultural virtues that we do. On average they are less criminally inclined than most of our poor white and black folks. Their homeland also possesses large reserves of that stuff we burn in our SUV's.
Travel around a modern European city like Antwerp and see how Muslim immigrants crowd former Flemish nieghborhoods and how resistant they are to assimilation. I would MUCH, MUCH rather have to deal with the immigration problem that we have in our country than the one the French, the Germans, the Dutch or the Belgian are saddled with. Mexicans are by and large hard-working, appreciate the generally law-and-order society that we represent, where day-to-day corruption is rare, and where they get a fair break most of the time. They are mostly Catholic and celebrate the same cultural virtues that we do. On average they are less criminally inclined than most of our poor white and black folks. 100% bullshit. Not only that but a tired and pathetic line meant to soften any defense of what's left of Western Civilization. Only someone with an agenda would pull that shit. Who gives a flying rat-fuck if they are Catholic, Lutheran or Moonie? They are making a mockery of US domestic law and making me a second class citizen. They get free emergency room care, can open a bank account without a SSN and drive without car insurance. This doesn't relate to what France or Germany are going through, but you seem to want to soften us with that "relativitism" also. Tell you what, Action, they are showing up with the government and big businesses explicit consent to suck on the public teat (they are a net drain on services) when real Americans can't pay their fucking health care costs. And I know personally how they stare down Gringos on the street and how their prone to violence so don't piss down my back and say it's fucking raining. We're past the point where you can bullshit us with these soothing falsehoods. No, we've seen the shit ourselves.
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Amen to what you said.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed... Everyone who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry
I agree. If Jon Kyl is a sponsor, then it is a New World Order initiative. They want indentured servants working jobs, free labor is to be reduced in our economy in favor of indentured servants. that is the goal. These people who apply for these visas will only be able to live in the US if their employer wants them, then they are indentured servants, semi-slaves to their work sponsors.
Another f**king lie. How can there be
an abundance of crude when PEMEX uses 1.2 billion cubic feet a day of nitrogen
for their oil extractions? link Did you
know that? No you didn't because you're an asshole and you get your jollies
from insulting our intelligence. Matter fact, after three readings of your
post in slackjawed amazement I had to search for your prior posts since I don't
recognize you. I figured you were a banned Freeper or AssclownPosse member.
Looks like you don't post much more than 3 or so lines on average and usually
don't come out too strongly on a position. Except this one. I know the
aCP brags about having a few active members here. I wonder if you aren't one of
them?
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Thanks man. We're past the point of bullshitting. We know the score.
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I ain't no man, but you are quite welcome anyway! And even though I do not live in a border state - I KNOW the score. The last time I was in our little local ER I had a four hour wait because it was filled to overflowing with mexicans who did not speak english and they had no interpreter on hand (welcome to SW Ohio). On the other hand - the INS did recently bust ABX for employing over 300 undocumented illegal aliens and made ABX fire them. So I guess at least for once, a goverment agency did something right (well partially - the newly jobless still live here and have their own Mexican Staffing Agency).
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed... Everyone who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry
I'm pretty sure you are misreading it. They don't have to go home and it effectively guts any attempt to deport them or any more that come in for the next five years.
It's WORSE than what we have right now.
I went shopping today and next to me were a group of men from some French speaking African country.. speaking French.. a group of Mexicans speaking Spanish and a family from some oriental country speaking some oriental language.. I felt like I was in 3rd world hell.. it was SO strange..
"...when a society believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda..."
And we wonder why the employment prospects in our area reeks????
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force you are ruined... The great object is that every man be armed... Everyone who is able may have a gun." -- Patrick Henry
Not really.. if you read the statistics on the #s of the incarcerated: http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=1252&c=17
"...when a society believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda..."
Tell me about it.
"...when a society believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda..."
amen to what you said again. that man randge is a racist. trying to divide our country up by race. speaking all these horrible imaginations about race.
Sorry, but I don't buy the "Mexicans as Noble Savages" bit. I've been around them too much. Unlike some, I don't ascribe their shortcomings to race, but rather culture.
WORSE than we have right now with nothing? Ye gods, man. Putting my 'political hat' on, I have to like this because what we're likely to actually get is going to be much much worse than anything either of us can ever dream of. Just wait until Teddy Kennedy starts tossing amendments out and getting those passed!
Nothing? Balderdash! The laws currently on the books are sufficient -- if only we could get the damned government to enforce them. Granting an amnesty that guts any hope of enforcement is a step in the WRONG direction. I prefer to avoid the "We've got to do SOMETHING, even if it is the wrong thing" mentality.
I rescind what I said here. But my birthright of living in an American America is being slowly and definitively taken away and I remove the gloves for people who laud and make excuses for it.
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Ah, but that IS the current state. Nobody will do anything. At least this plan allows for more people (one of the big complaints is lack of resources) and whatnot. If we could get a bill that gave us another *fifty thousand* enforcement agents and beefed up the deportation budgets along with additional hardware for the borders without anything else that would be the best thing. We *need* more resources! However, what we've got is enough people screaming about labor shortages that we're going to get a Guest Worker System regardless of whether we want it or not. That's just political reality. It sucks but what can you do?
That may be the political reality, but it doesn't mean I have to pretend that the turd is a rose. As far as your call for more resources, it leads me to ask a question: What branch of the government do you work for?
I am a 'customer' of the IRS. That's what branch of the Government I work for. However, if one looks at the news media, one finds daily instances of police departments finding - shall we say - self-selected deportation candidates - and ICE declining to handle the call claiming "Lack of resources!" and the states and local governments all saying "Not my problem! Its a Federal thing!" You have company in not liking the situation one bit.
It's policy and the cry for more resources is the mantra of every government agency. Heck, the standard M.O. is to manufacture a crisis and then scream for more resources to deal with the crisis while effecting policies that can only exacerbate the crisis so that more resources can be demanded. How much is enough? We honestly will never know until policy changes. We just might find that we have more than enough resources in ICE to do the job. As for local jurisdictions, we once again face a policy crisis. Heck many cities have declared themselves safe havens for illegals and prevent law enforcement from touching them.
In Oregon, the standard MO is for Government to divert funding from needed services (police, fire, etc) into boondoggle welfare systems and then scream for more tax revenue. Heck, Multnomah County has a jail they can't open because they blew the money elsewhere. Yes, I am well aware of how this works. Personally, I like the concept behind how California put their legislature in a box. By initative, they locked the budget into percentages and minimum funding for things they wanted. In reality, Sacramento can only play with less than 5% of the California budget because the rest of it is locked down by statute. Would that we could get away with doing that here. Would that we could do that to the Feds as well, but they have put social services ahead of everything. In ten years, the Fed budget will double without anyone having done anything due to automagic escalators in social programs. With any luck, the economy will not grow to meet so some of this will be sliced and diced - but - that's likely wishful thinking. More likely is that everything BUT the social services will be defunded and we'll wind up screwed as usual.
Have you read about the local yokel police chief in New Ipswich, NH and what HE DID about them? Arresting them for illegal trespass after repeatedly being forced to RELEASE THEM because INS simply wasn't interested... Another police chief in Hudson, NH followed suit. It's AMAZING how folks jump up and down about RIGHTS OF ILLEGALS.... Huh? Rights? WHAT RIGHTS? They are illegals who DO NOT BELONG HERE... Simple as that. As soon as the guy wins/loses his case, he should be DEPORTED... but don't hold yer breath... the MEXICAN government has taken up his cause and has informed King Georgie boy how unhappy they are about all this fuss... (grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... there are times that I feel like biting someone) I live in NH so it's BIG NEWS hereabouts... It's made national news too... Some links below... http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/05/22/nh_p olice_ch iefs_tactics_stir_a_storm_on_immigration/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp- dyn/content/article/2005/06/09/AR2005060902035_pf.html http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login? URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/national/13immigrants.html&OP=27fa9a1bQ2F Q2AtDVQ2AF_4KE__GYQ2AY33- Q2A3Q24Q2AvQ23Q2AQ3CuGe_Q3CuMQ2AvQ23e55eQ5BEuQ3CGKOzG5M http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/06/11/huds on_conti nues_to_use_trepass_law_against_illegal_immigrants_1118498473/ I'm not a terrorist just because I think GWB may very well be the greatest threat to America right now.
dammit... cut and paste the links... they are valid... but my posting skills here are sadly lacking and there's NO EDIT function... grrrrrrrrrr... OUCH, I bit myself~!!
I'm not a terrorist just because I think GWB may very well be the greatest threat to America right now.
Yes, and his efforts are applauded - and being duplicated in other towns in NH as well. Would that the entire country would follow this lead. However, the problem therein is that paying for incarceration becomes an issue as well as jail space. However, there is a county sheriff in Arizona who solved that with a tent city so there is still hope. There is no really good solution, alas, unless it is also coupled with massive border enforcement. The 50k figure was pulled from an estimate of what it would take to get the Military on the borders to seal it.
I got other shit to do besides post here, but I'll give it one more try. I am no communist. I celebrate the fall of every red regime. I hope that Mr. Castro chokes on his own vomit. However, my point was that we cannot continue to run a game on Latin America in the way that our ancestors have. The worst thing that we do is act toward them with disrespect. The peoples of that region have been punished for their leadership in the same way that the Iraqi people have, and I hate to say, the way that we well might some day be if we are not careful. A lot of shit has been done in our name, and we have spent a grievous amount of political, not to mention financial, capital in the past few years. In my time working in Mexico, I've seen that Mexicans are quite conscious of the history of our machinations in their neighborhood - at least among the educated - but while I was there, I heard no word of hostility toward me on account of my where I come from, and I found people to be courteous and hospitable. And, I do know where I come from, and I do hallow the blood of patriots that made this country what it is just as I abhor the cabal that has landed us in the troubles that we are currently in. They have subjugated us and subjected us to an invasion of perhaps 10 million aliens, and left us no alternatives but wholesale forced repatriation or surrender. Yes, by right, all illegal aliens should be put on buses and be sent home. That would cause a circus that our enemies would use gleefully against us. Blame our masters, "left" and "right" who have been carefully cultivating political power over the last century and who have put us in this spot. However, don't hate those that come here for the same reasons that many - most - of our ancestors did. Few of them came here with a silver spoon in their mouths. What we see of Mexicans are the poor and the desperate that make it across our borders. Certainly that skews our image of Mexico. I heard a woman speak last year who has a ranch on the Texas-Mexico border and who was stabbed by illegals and had teeth knocked out defending her ranch from invasion. It makes me hot. It makes me angry. These La Raza idiots fry me too with their arrogance. It is easy to get hot. The leaders of what we laughingly call political parties in this country play us all like a flute and use our anger against us. I am afraid that the tempo of things will begin to pick up soon. We may soon face some serious adversaries in this world and will wake up one morning to find that we are no longer the biggest alligator in the pond. If we continue to lash out at Mexicans a la Michael "Savage" we risk alienating their country as we have alienated Venezuela. We may some day need our neighbors. We may be fighting for our survival. I just wanted to throw that proposition into the waters. I see that I hit a nerve. We are in a hard position, and venting our spleens may be therapeutic, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I certainly don't pretend to know what the answers are, and I apologize for pissing you all off. I shill for no one and always speak my mind.
fine post, randge. i think there was just a bit of a misunderstanding of your point of view, but you articulate it well here. you make some good points.
You are a gracious lady, and that is one of the reasons why I always consider it a privilege to post here.
You didn't piss ME off. I'm always open to new ideas on old topics. You've shed a somewhat different shadow on Mexico & Mexican illegals that I'd not considered before... The idea of NECESSARY ALLIES in a world war that could be on OUR doorstep next time. That said, I don't think we should allow MILLIONS of Mexican illegals to flood our country and do nothing about it on the chance that we'll need their help in the future. Mexico will or will not "help" us based on ONE THING and ONE THING ALONE: how will it benefit Mexico to do so? Even if we cultivate Mexico as the nearest and dearest of "friends", they cannot disregard their OWN INTERESTS in favor of ours no matter how much they might grow to like us. Also, they can't disregard their OWN INTERESTS in favor of retaliation against us for not living up to their expectations. That's a political reality. To think otherwise is to be politically naive. It's a fact that the U.S.A. needs its international friends BUT our friends only care about us to the limits that WE can be good friends to them i.e. HELP TO THEM... If we cease to be the biggest alligator, we will lose most of our friends. Mexico and Canada will fight WITH us to keep their OWN BORDERS safe from whatever aggressors attack us. They won't be asking themselves if we've been nice enough to their stowaway citizens. (the Mexican government doesn't care about them now, why should they suddenly care then? UNLESS IT'S PROFITABLE TO PRETEND TO CARE) I fear that if we continue on the path we are on, we WILL soon be on the sharp end of the stick with the world we've alienated all delighting in our downfall and all of our friends all wringing their hands over whether to help us or to be pragmatic about what happens later on IF WE LOSE. Our only friends will be those who will benefit from helping us no matter how "nice" or "lousy" we have been to them in the past.
I'm not a terrorist just because I think GWB may very well be the greatest threat to America right now.
The headline seems designed to rattle the open borders crowd. The headline should have ended 'within 5 years'. That would have produced a more accurate description of the bill. But it wouldn't have rallied the open borders crowd.
Actually it doesn't even force them to leave in 5 years. All it really accomplishes is subverting any attempt at enforcement for 5 years.
The bill, by Sens. John Cornyn of Texas and Jon Kyl of Arizona, would establish temporary work permits renewable for up to six years and would require employers to provide health insurance to workers.
#2. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
#3. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
#4. To: mirage (#3)
#5. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#4)
Deportation is the only thing that would make me happy. Anything less is a slap in the face to all who enter the country legally.
#6. To: mirage (#3)
#7. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
Two border-state Republican senators proposed legislation yesterday that would require every illegal immigrant -- estimated at 10 million -- to leave the United States and return to the nation they came from within five years.
#8. To: griper (#6)
This plan is a mirage
#9. To: christine (#7)
how stupid do they think we are?
#10. To: griper (#9)
#11. To: randge (#10)
God help us if our neighbors cannot be counted upon as friends.
#12. To: Dude Lebowski (#11)
#13. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
This is nothing but a veiled shot at amnesty for the criminals.
#14. To: randge (#10)
Their homeland also possesses large reserves of that stuff we
burn in our SUV's.
#15. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#12)
Amen to what you said.
#16. To: Dude Lebowski (#15)
Thanks man. We're past the point of bullshitting. We know the score.
#17. To: mirage (#5)
What makes me happy about this is that they have to GO HOME to apply for the work permit. This is a first and this part makes the folks that came legally I know very happy.
#18. To: mirage (#8)
Its the best we have right now.
#19. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#16)
#20. To: Zipporah (#19)
#21. To: randge (#10)
Mexicans are by and large hard-working, appreciate the generally law-and-order society that we represent, where day-to-day corruption is rare, and where they get a fair break most of the time. They are mostly Catholic and celebrate the same cultural virtues that we do. On average they are less criminally inclined than most of our poor white and black folks.
#22. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#20)
#23. To: Dude Lebowski, Randge (#11)
#24. To: randge (#10)
#25. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#18)
It's WORSE than what we have right now.
#26. To: mirage (#25)
WORSE than we have right now with nothing?
#27. To: All, Randge (#14)
I know the aCP brags about having a few active members here. I wonder if you aren't one of them?
#28. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#26)
The laws currently on the books are sufficient -- if only we could get the damned government to enforce them.
#29. To: mirage (#28)
That's just political reality. It sucks but what can you do?
#30. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#29)
What branch of the government do you work for?
#31. To: mirage (#30)
However, if one looks at the news media, one finds daily instances of police departments finding - shall we say - self-selected deportation candidates - and ICE declining to handle the call claiming "Lack of resources!" and the states and local governments all saying "Not my problem! Its a Federal thing!"
#32. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#31)
It's policy and the cry for more resources is the mantra of every government agency. Heck, the standard M.O. is to manufacture a crisis and then scream for more resources to deal with the crisis while effecting policies that can only exacerbate the crisis so that more resources can be demanded.
#33. To: mirage (#28)
#34. To: All (#33)
#35. To: siagiah (#33)
Have you read about the local yokel police chief in New Ipswich, NH and what HE DID about them?
#36. To: Dude Lebowski (#14)
#37. To: randge (#36)
And, I do know where I come from, and I do hallow the blood of patriots that made this country what it is just as I abhor the cabal that has landed us in the troubles that we are currently in. They have subjugated us and subjected us to an invasion of perhaps 10 million aliens, and left us no alternatives but wholesale forced repatriation or surrender. Yes, by right, all illegal aliens should be put on buses and be sent home. That would cause a circus that our enemies would use gleefully against us. Blame our masters, "left" and "right" who have been carefully cultivating political power over the last century and who have put us in this spot. However, don't hate those that come here for the same reasons that many - most - of our ancestors did. Few of them came here with a silver spoon in their mouths.
#38. To: christine (#37)
#39. To: randge (#36)
We are in a hard position, and venting our spleens may be therapeutic, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I certainly don't pretend to know what the answers are, and I apologize for pissing you all off. I shill for no one and always speak my mind.
#40. To: Mr Nuke Buzzcut (#0)
GOP bill would force illegal aliens to leave
#41. To: Bayonne (#40)
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