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Title: Forrestal Incident
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 11, 2008
Author: salemguy
Post Date: 2008-10-11 17:08:50 by salemguy
Keywords: Forrestal, McCain, hotdog
Views: 378
Comments: 21

I have some open questions I think are important. They are about the truth of the Forrestal accident John McCain was involved in, in 1967. I believe a resolution of them can provide insight into his true character.

I learned about it from a friend a month ago and googled a lot of material, mostly inconclusive, often conflicting. One of the better comment sets I found was here, but I can't find it now, so I'm sending this as a general post, not really an article.

I've read zionist nut interpretations and murky, early morning hangover-like assertions, and seen "official" videos, but a former carrier flight deck navy man whose name I can't remember provided good information here on actual operational logistics that still leave me with questions.

The central question is and has been whether or not McCain, with his "hot dog" behavior and reputation, caused the accident, resulting in loss of many lives on the ship, and millions of dollars in loss of planes and damage to the ship.

Cutting to the chase through my own confusion...

A4's of that era were started with external air power. Who controls the fuel switch? It still seems to me that a pilot who wanted to haze other pilots with a "wet start" (big flame on ignition) could effect that.

Where did the errant missle that started the fires hit McCain's fuel tank come from, and why? The only credible explanation I've seen is that it was a result of a McCain wet start, from the plane behind, or another not behind?

Why was McCain transferred from the Forrestal to the Oriskany? I've read two versions of that transfer... one that it happened immediately and another that it happened after a couple weeks of R&R in Saigon (why?), but in either case he left the Forrestal that day, as far as I can tell.

That suggests to me a "fragging" might have occurred? Fragging, for those who may not know, is the killing of officers by enlisted personnel for perceived wrongs.

I would really like to hear from Forrestal vets who were there. I think a set of reflections from them may help resolve these questions.

McCain lost four planes in his Naval career with his hot dog attitude, it appears, and a fifth when he was shot down. Most pilots would lose their flight status after one or two, I'd think.

In any event, I still think the Forrestal incident bears some scrutiny.

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#12. To: salemguy (#0)

www.gregoryafreeman.com/template.html

For information on Sen. John McCain's experience
during the fire on the USS Forrestal on July 29, 1967,
read these excerpts from

Sailors to the End: The Deadly Fire on the USS Forrestal
and the Heroes Who Fought It

by

Gregory A. Freeman

See the book for full references
to source material for information in these excerpts.

… [On the day of the fire] Two of the crew members working with Bangert’s plane were busy checking the missiles and rockets to ensure that they were properly installed and that the systems were safe. One man began conducting stray voltage checks on the weapons systems, to make sure the electrical system was not malfunctioning in a way that could accidentally trigger the weapons. He found no stray voltage in any of the systems on the port side and then went to the starboard side to conduct the same tests. Having found no stray voltage or other potential problems with the weapons systems, he plugged in the “pigtails,” cable connectors that linked the rockets and the plane’s launching device. This was the shortcut approved by the ship’s administration for the sake of speed. Plugging in the pigtails armed the weapons on the port side.

At 10:51 a.m. and 21 seconds, Bangert had just started his starboard engine. With the engine running, Bangert reached out to press the button that would switch from the external cart’s power supply to the plane’s internal system. As his gloved finger hit the button, Bangert and McKay both felt a mild explosion shake the plane. Bangert looked up in time to see a small rocket flying across the deck with a yellow-orange exhaust flame....

...The rocket was flying across the deck at chest height, at hundreds of miles per hour, headed towards a fuel chief who was standing just behind the number 4 arresting wire, pretty much in the middle of the deck between Bangert’s plane and those parked on the other side of the ship. He was knocked off his feet by the rocket as it passed without touching him.

Another sailor on deck was much less fortunate. An ordnanceman, he was walking along the flight deck in front of a group of A-4 Skyhawks when the Zuni rocket hit him in the shoulder, passing through and instantly severing his arm but leaving him standing.

The rocket then continued on, its course altered to the right by the collision with the ordnanceman. Having traveled about 100 feet, the rocket then struck the A-4 Skyhawk piloted by John McCain....

... McCain felt a huge impact as the Zuni rocket tore through his plane on the right side and exited the left side, ripping open his fuel tank with 400 gallons of JP5 jet fuel. Two crewmen nearby were set on fire as the hot rocket exhaust passed by them. They were already rushing forward toward the island before the jet fuel spreading over the deck ignited.

Just below the flight deck at the very rear of the ship, Edmond McGrew was on man overboard watch, keeping his eyes trained on the water in his sector, looking for anyone who had fallen overboard. As McGrew watched the water on the port side of the ship, another sailor had joined him on the fantail for a cigarette. Now they both saw the Zuni rocket hit the water on the port side, never exploding. They could tell that the object was not a man overboard, but they had no idea what it was.

The fuel poured out of McCain’s torn plane, spreading to the rear of the ship rapidly as it was pushed not only by the 37 mph wind but by the exhausts of at least three jets positioned immediately in front of McCain’s plane. The jet fuel was ignited soon by fragments of burning rocket propellant, but there was a delay of a second or so as the fuel spilled from the plane, giving some crew members enough time to realize the danger they were in. With a sudden, deafening “whoomp!” sound, the fuel ignited and soon engulfed all of the A-4 Skyhawks parked on the port side....

...The pilots strapped inside their planes needed help to get out. As they l ooked out of their canopies, they saw nothing but flames and black smoke, which was so thick that some of them could not see well enough to tell what awaited them if they opened their canopies. And others who could see knew that they were surrounded by a burning lake of jet fuel. In that instant, dozens of crewmen around those planes found themselves soaked in burning jet fuel. Several men stumbled outof the fire scene, covered head to toe in flames. One pilot jumped out of his plane and made his way out of the fire, his entire flight suit in flames. Once he got out of the fire and headed toward safety, he inexplicably turned around and walked back i nto the fire. Probably disoriented, he disappeared into the heart of the fire and never came back out.

The fire had erupted so quickly that no one had a chance to warn those on the rear portion of the deck to run toward the safety of the center deck and the island structure. The men trapped in the fire had little or no opportunity to escape the huge fireball that grew ever larger as the fuel poured out of the planes, each one adding hundreds of gallons of fuel to the fire.

The rocket’s flight was almost caught on film by the plat camera, a television camera located on the island structure. The plat camera was used to record all flight deck operations for future study, and also to provide images of flight deck activities to monitors throughout the ship. When the rocket and the subsequent fire caught the camera operator’s eye, he was focused farther forward on a plane about to be launched off a catapult. He immediately swung the camera back to the rear of the ship and trained it on the fire, where it remained for hours, but he missed the actual launch of the rocket. The camera operator had to abandon his post after a while becauseof shrapnel penetrating the space, but the camera continued to record the events. Later analysis of the film showed the reflection of the rocket in a window as it traveled across the deck. …

[snip]

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-10-12   3:13:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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