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Title: Forrestal Incident
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 11, 2008
Author: salemguy
Post Date: 2008-10-11 17:08:50 by salemguy
Keywords: Forrestal, McCain, hotdog
Views: 454
Comments: 21

I have some open questions I think are important. They are about the truth of the Forrestal accident John McCain was involved in, in 1967. I believe a resolution of them can provide insight into his true character.

I learned about it from a friend a month ago and googled a lot of material, mostly inconclusive, often conflicting. One of the better comment sets I found was here, but I can't find it now, so I'm sending this as a general post, not really an article.

I've read zionist nut interpretations and murky, early morning hangover-like assertions, and seen "official" videos, but a former carrier flight deck navy man whose name I can't remember provided good information here on actual operational logistics that still leave me with questions.

The central question is and has been whether or not McCain, with his "hot dog" behavior and reputation, caused the accident, resulting in loss of many lives on the ship, and millions of dollars in loss of planes and damage to the ship.

Cutting to the chase through my own confusion...

A4's of that era were started with external air power. Who controls the fuel switch? It still seems to me that a pilot who wanted to haze other pilots with a "wet start" (big flame on ignition) could effect that.

Where did the errant missle that started the fires hit McCain's fuel tank come from, and why? The only credible explanation I've seen is that it was a result of a McCain wet start, from the plane behind, or another not behind?

Why was McCain transferred from the Forrestal to the Oriskany? I've read two versions of that transfer... one that it happened immediately and another that it happened after a couple weeks of R&R in Saigon (why?), but in either case he left the Forrestal that day, as far as I can tell.

That suggests to me a "fragging" might have occurred? Fragging, for those who may not know, is the killing of officers by enlisted personnel for perceived wrongs.

I would really like to hear from Forrestal vets who were there. I think a set of reflections from them may help resolve these questions.

McCain lost four planes in his Naval career with his hot dog attitude, it appears, and a fifth when he was shot down. Most pilots would lose their flight status after one or two, I'd think.

In any event, I still think the Forrestal incident bears some scrutiny.

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#13. To: salemguy (#0)

The central question is and has been whether or not McCain, with his "hot dog" behavior and reputation, caused the accident, resulting in loss of many lives on the ship, and millions of dollars in loss of planes and damage to the ship.

A4's of that era were started with external air power. Who controls the fuel switch? It still seems to me that a pilot who wanted to haze other pilots with a "wet start" (big flame on ignition) could effect that.

While it was possible to wet start McCain's aircraft which had no afterburner, in the launch position on a carrier there is a blast door raised behind the aircraft. McCain's parked aircraft was facing inward (standard position) with its exhaust to sea. In that position, it is impossible to do much with a wet start except shoot a flame at the ocean.

Shooting a jet wash or wet-start flame across the flight deck would seeming blast crewmen overboard or leave crispy critters.

Where did the errant missle that started the fires hit McCain's fuel tank come from, and why? The only credible explanation I've seen is that it was a result of a McCain wet start, from the plane behind, or another not behind?

There seems to be no argument about what aircraft the rocket came from. It came from an F-4 on the other side of the ship. Its exhaust faced to sea, its nose faced McCain's plane, and the rocket went in the direction of McCain's plane. The rocket may have struck McCain's plane or one next to him, or both. The rocket did not detonate and proceeded over the side of the ship and into the sea.

Why was McCain transferred from the Forrestal to the Oriskany? I've read two versions of that transfer... one that it happened immediately and another that it happened after a couple weeks of R&R in Saigon (why?), but in either case he left the Forrestal that day, as far as I can tell.

That suggests to me a "fragging" might have occurred? Fragging, for those who may not know, is the killing of officers by enlisted personnel for perceived wrongs.

I have separately covered why McCain went to Oriskany for medical treatment, as did many others that day. There has never been any evidence that anybody was trying to frag anybody that day. When big bombs are blowing up on a ship, and GQ is called, crewmen are fairly preoccupied with putting out the fire. Fragging is not a Navy term. Generally it refers to shooting an officer and generally seamen do not carry anything to shoot with.

McCain lost four planes in his Naval career with his hot dog attitude, it appears, and a fifth when he was shot down.

I am aware of two aircraft lost which may possibly have been due to pilot error, although not officially found as such. On the Forrestal he was parked when hit by a rocket. His hot dog attitude had nothing to do with it, and there is no evidence he did anything to cause it. There is no evidence that getting shot down over Vietnam was the result of hot dog attitude. Planes get hit and go down. James Stockdale (Perot's running mate) was also shot down and spent a few more years than John McCain as a POW. In a fifth incident over Spain, McCain did not lose his plane but clipped a power line. I'd say he was hot dogging and flying low on that one.

Most pilots would lose their flight status after one or two, I'd think.

His daddy and granddaddy were admirals. Officially, two planes were lost due to mechanical malfunction but could well have been McCain's fault. He owns that clipped power line. But he also owned a whole lot of juice. Nobody down the food chain is likely to take on the admiral.

One could well question how McCain was selected for flight school in the first place, but then we are back to his daddy and grandaddy.

In any event, I still think the Forrestal incident bears some scrutiny.

Unless someone can turn McCain's aircraft around about 180 degrees and throw a wet start flame from one side of the ship to the other, there just isn't much to scrutinize.

I don't see how McCain could possibly have caused the Forrestal fire with a wet start.

Things like The Keating Five and the United States Council for World Freedom are worth some scrutiny, however.

nolu_chan  posted on  2008-10-12   3:21:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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