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Title: Who says men need to get married to be happy?
Source:
London Times
URL Source: http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ ... lationships/article4922052.ece
Published: Oct 19, 2008
Author: LT
Post Date: 2008-10-19 10:03:31 by robnoel
Keywords: None
Views: 3273
Comments: 124
There comes a point in every man’s life when he must check out of Guyland, wrote Martin Deeson two weeks ago in these pages. This, for those of you who missed it, is the place in a man’s life when he lives singly and without responsibility. A place where he is no longer a boy but not yet a man; where he trips over beer cans in the morning on his way out the door, and asks for the woman he wakes up with to jot down her e-mail rather than her phone number to save him the embarrassment of having to ask her name. It’s also known as bachelorhood and, according to Deeson, the age at which he should make his way to the departure gate is 35. This is when a man should start thinking about finding a good woman and settling down. Shortly afterwards, he should also consider trading in the sports car for a Volvo, donate the Xbox to a children’s charity and decommission the DVD collection. The reward for doing so is a life of simple bliss, where he lives longer and happier, snuggled up in the warm embrace of a loving relationship. Well, not so fast, Deeson. Not everyone feels this way. George Clooney seems to be pretty happy in Guyland. Bruce Parry, the TV adventurer, is 39, and when he’s not rampaging through the Amazon, he hangs out in a beach hut in Ibiza, partying like a dervish. In fact, Clooney shows no sign of wanting to change: when Nicole Kidman bet him $10,000 that he would be married by 40, he mailed the cheque back after his birthday, with a note saying, “Double or nothing for another 10 years”. He’s 47 now. Readers agree. “Stay single and see her at the weekends. Man is not meant to be caged,” wrote Lucas from London. “It’s a great lifestyle choice,” wrote Rob D, also from London. “As for married men living longer, well, the indoor cat lives longer too. But it’s a fur ball with a broken spirit looking out on a world that it will never enjoy.” And I agree, though it is becoming increasingly apparent that many people close to me don’t. Now in my mid-thirties, I am used to my mother asking where various ex-girlfriends were, but then, last weekend, she sat me down and told me that finding a “life partner” was like looking for a job: you had to be determined and focused, she said, before finishing with “and stop faffing”. I’ve lost count of the number of times a friend’s girlfriend has taken me aside and asked me when I am going to “come in from the cold”. Usually I yawn and say, “When I meet the right person”, but even I don’t believe it any more. Truth is, I probably have met the right person, probably more than one. But I’ve been in a couple of long-termers and I’ve seen what marriage can do to my friends, and I’ve decided I am happy in Guyland and I want to hang out here longer. This should be a bit of a worry. Under Deeson’s rubric, if I continue walking single file, I will — in a few years — be suicidally unhappy and statistically more likely to be heading for an early grave. I will drink more, smoke more and slowly go to seed. Women will stop regarding me as an “eligible bachelor” and begin seeing me as, well, a sad spinster. Problem is, I just don’t buy it. For a start, bachelors are different now. Traditionally they can be one of two things: a toxic bachelor who spends his evenings with a bucket of KFC and a can of lager, or a career bachelor who is too busy to socialise because he is working until 3am. Over the past five years, however, a third type has emerged. Dubbed “city adventurers” (which, I grant you, sounds a bit naff — Bear Grylls in pinstripes?), these are single men aged 25-39 with an average wage of more than £40,000. They spend their spare time eating out, going to the pub and the cinema and taking weekend breaks. They will probably ski or snowboard and, when asked, they will say they are knowledgeable about wine (though they probably aren’t). In short, they lead interesting and fulfilling lives. “We have the time to pursue things that we really want to,” says Duncan, a 33-year-old art director who has found a new lease of life since breaking up with his girlfriend. “My friends who are settled have almost every minute of every day accounted for. Because all of my time is not taken up by a relationship, I can write that script, play some squash, chase dreams and enjoy the finer things in life.” Too many feeble men give in to the supposed security of marriage. They see it as panacea to their problems (including, but by no means limited to, alienation, indecision, and lack of direction and motivation). “I don’t want to be the oldest father at the school gates,” lamented one friend recently, explaining why he was getting engaged to his girlfriend, who we all know will make his life a misery. Marriage like this is for wimps. “I genuinely pity most of my married friends, who feel trapped, bored and frustrated,” wrote Mike from Hong Kong. “The only men I know who are happily married are the laid-back guys who need a woman for direction. Marriage is not a smart idea for the alpha male.” My old flatmate, Zar, a 32-year-old lawyer, agrees: “The best thing for me is realising that I have not been panicked into thinking I have met the right person and then discovered that I have married the wrong person, with whom I have a child and am in debt and losing my hair about what school I am going to send them to.” Being single, solvent and in charge of your own life is fun. And then there’s the sex. “When I first found myself a bachelor at 33, I hadn’t realised how much women in their mid-twenties enjoyed the company of a man of that age,” said James, 35. “More cash, more charm and more of the benefit of the trial and error of what women like.” The fact that you probably have a flyer place that isn’t full of deadbeats playing Nintendo only adds to the appeal. Incidentally, dating younger girls draws a curiously bitter response from single women my own age. I remind them that there is nice symmetry in this: every schoolboy remembers the moment at 15 when all the best-looking girls in his year decided they didn’t fancy their spotty-faced contemporaries and began dating the sixth-former with a Vauxhall Astra. It’s not revenge, exactly, but they started it. There are downsides, naturally: having to go out with your married mates on a “pink ticket” when all they want to do is hit pathetic strip clubs because they are so severely rationed by their Mrs; listening to similarly aged single female friends bang on about being left on the shelf; fear of shotgun weddings. And then there’s the part about dying early. It’s true: bachelors die younger than their married counterparts. When I dug deeper, though, I discovered this has a lot to do with smoking, drinking and diet. And if you can keep these things under control, you can hang out in Guyland, well, indefinitely.
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#33. To: Hayek Fan (#32)
Maybe I'm lost. I thought 4um was once a political discussion board.
I didn't post the article. I just made a comment. A comment that directly related to the article.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
You don't need to give me excuses. I'm not the moderator. I'm a lowly female poster. From my point of view all the posts on this thread have progressively become more misogynistic. And yes, misogyny is in keeping with the intent of the article poster. It's just that I would have expected better from you, Hayek Fan.
Why is it that when people disagree with the liberal lefties that the disagreer 'hates'? Ever think about that, Mike? Is it only the 'middle and the right' that can hate?
It's just that I would have expected better from you, Hayek Fan. Well I can honestly say that it was not my intention to offend anyone, man or woman. When he told me that I thought it was funny. I thought others would too. Maybe it loses something in writing. Anyway, I've been married 17 years and feel no shame in saying that my life would be over if anything ever happened to her. She IS my happiness. I am the luckiest man alive. However, it is a fact that not everyone is as lucky as me. Some men have been shit on by their wives and/or girlfriends and are bitter over it. That's my friends problem. His wife left him and their kids for another man half their age and the courts screwed him royally even though she was the one who screwed around on him and he's the one who kept custody of the kids. He's rightfully bitter and probably is misogynistic at this point in his life.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
I thought you might be as you describe yourself. Your posts are measured and thoughtful - from a centered person with a good outlook on life. That's why I was surprised you chimed in with such crudeness on robnoel's article thread, that's all. The opposite is also true of women being treated shabbily by men. People's moral values are shaped by pre-school. Bad values are not intrinsic to only one sex. But I'd agree with you that the feminists have certainly done a bang-up job of educating women to be less the fairer sex than they once might have been. Also affirmative action has given women a sense of entitlement.
'cuse me, but y'all are about enough to gag a maggot. For instance, why is it so important, and apparently the goal, to have your marriage be just like a friends--as though there is some pattern? Hello! You and your spouse are unique unto one another. If you have to compare your marriage to someone else's, it is definitely YOU that have the problem--this need to copy cat, to be a clone, to need to emulate someone else is YOUR problem. You are NOT privy to everything, and I mean everything in their lives/marriage, so why think yours is or should be like theirs? Where was your spine when you determined you had goals/ideals/stars to reach? You telling us she flat out ordered you NOT to proceed? I can certainly understand the need for so many men to have a scapegoat..obviously, they aren't man enough to admit that they aren't exactly God's gift to wimmen! I'm getting a kick out of reading this crap--sort of like an inside look at the wimpy men and how they think/whine. Isn't this like those guys that get together and bang drums--male bonding or some such tommyrot? Carry on' y'all-- no need to ping me. I'm getting my laughs for the day. Worse than teenagers in the locker room........sheesh.
I guess it was one of the "you had to be there" conversations. He said it so matter of factly that it was really funny at the time. I guess it doesn't translate well onto paper.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
I think they're into their 'men's weekend campout mode with drums--they sit around the campfire, banging on drums, and doing the 'male bonding' thing! LOL........
male bonding
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
I hate it when someone hits me with a lame line that that. Everyone can hate, and I don't hold the contention ideology makes one immune to the emotion. So, what are you bothering me with again? I contend and have contended over and over and over again that no one part of the political spectrum has a monopoly on being right, wrong or in between. I contend everyone needs everyone else's wisdom and myopia in a debate or hash out of an issue to get the best answer in how to deal with it.
Guess that is a reason I can't stand football.
And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot
You live in the right state. Your teams blow.
Ah come on Mike, that video was funny! LOL!
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
Tell that to the Oregon State Beavers, if they beat the University of Oregon Ducks they go to the Rose Bowl. Both teams are in the top 25 BTW. ;-)
Heh, I'll take your word for it. I found it disgusting and only got halfway through that.
I used you and your hate this time, Mike.....because apparently this guy with the dog was going against something you've told us you wholeheartedly approve. Were you able to get inside his heart/mind to determine what was there? Or your idea of hate was just based on what you think he hates, or loves, whichever the case may be. Other times, its been the righties making the accusation, and I've bitched just as much, perhaps more in that I consider myself a part of the right side--certainly not a goper, but a very conservative conservative. You can check with Chrissie on this........I'm sick to death of the tossing around of the 'hate' word. It lessens its value and importance. Hate is a very strong emotion. Furthermore, it would take mindreading to know what everyone who is declared a 'hater' loves or hates.
When your Beavers showed up here in central PA we beat them like a base drum. Seriously, we pulled our starters in the 3rd quarter. We have HS teams that could compete w. the Beavers.
I expect heavy tears here in the People's Republic of Eugene after the Civil War game between the State schools. I predict the Beavers are going to have roast duck. Oregon's problem is it is a party school. Top grade weed and some of the best microbrews in the country here are too tempting for the guys who wind up here to turn down and concentrate on their game. Police issue slew of citations at party with alcohol near UO campus
Oh, come on, rowdee! You KNEW this thread could only head in one direction!! ;-)
So, why do they even bother with football? Why not have college smokeouts to crown the King Toker?? ;-)
I'm hoping Oregon wins so we get to play the kids from Hollywood (USC) in the Rose Bowl.
What you have just demonstrated is a classic psychological shaming tactic which is classified as real abuse.. Do you use this tactic at home with hubby or worse yet, your boys, if applicable? Your "jest" is a classic abuse pattern used by women against men. Abuse can be either mental or physical, as any woman (except you) will tell you. And yes I am deadly serious. Look in the mirror and get help. Your disdain for men is showing. This is no laughing matter, except of course when men are involved, right hypocrite? Ever been abused? I have. (And it has nothing to do with looks or manhood or being "God's gift" as you so ignorantly say). YOU are one of the reasons abuse against males is so rarely reported. Would you like to see some studies on it, or do you give a shit? So cool your jets. You're acting guilty. And no, I didn't start this thread or say anything derogatory against women. YOU opened this can of worms with your obvious abuse pattern...AND ADDRESSED YOUR POST TO ME. I can tell you're well practived in it. Without an apology, I AM GONE from 4UM. Forever. I'm sure YOU will be glad.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition SILENT RUNNING Well, duh! Sheet......YOU are the one who pinged ME----I didn't go looking to jump your ass! You wanted comments, based on YOUR comment on #25--which was just after YOU pinged ME on #24! YOU were the one that said the article had a lot of good points--it wasn't ME who made that statement. For your edification, not that I particularly care that you know or not, I am a widow and have been for a number of years. Happily married for 21+ years, together for 24+ years as friends, lovers, soulmates, husband and wife. We had no children between the two of us for fear the disease he had would be perpetuated. So stuff your whining about verbal abuse of men. Grow a set and get on with your life.....don't let that ex-wife have any sort of oneupsman over you. Oh, and by the way, don't run off with your tail tucked because I responded to you. 4um needs good men.
i concur and, Indie, you are one of them...one of my compatriots.
i concur What am I? Wood?
I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise. um..hehehehe, are you? ;P
Only for you baby! :p
I shall not vote for evil, lesser or otherwise. More of the same from you. It is abuse and you've used the SAME technique of shaming and ostracizing manhood you used the first time. Do you know what you can do with that? And what would you know about "good men" when you yourself are abusive. Adios.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition SILENT RUNNING Indie - rowdee is right on all counts and especially the last point she made. You are a good guy and I'm sorry for your bad experience with a woman who was not so nice. Until robnoel's article and subsequent thread ensued, I had no firm knowledge of which male posters were divorced or married or negative towards women. Frankly I didn't care or have an interest in that regard. Anytime I've posted at 4um, if I received a negative response, I always assumed it was because that poster disagreed with my opinion. That's why I spoke up when I did to Hayek Fan - I didn't want us to cross lines where we might no longer be responding to one another's opinions in the future. Rowdee's comments, I think, were to reassure me that things would not change - that a few male posters were just letting off steam, that's all, don't take it to heart, scrapper. For sure, rowdee was not putting you down, I know that. Rowdee is definitely one of the good guys just like you are, Indie.
The Beaver team that the Nittany Kittens beat early in the season is not the same team that they will face in the Rose Bowl. The defense has matured, and the offense is not just Jaquizz Rogers (who ran for 144 yards against the Penn State Defense - and will be back for the Rose Bowl). Remember that this is the same team that led #1 USC 21-0 going into the half and held on to win 27-21 never trailing in the game. The Beavers have a habit, a bad one, of playing up to the level of their competition - which means that a few teams they should have blown out were able to stay close. Penn State was the only lopsided (against the Beavers) game that they played all season. The only other losses were to #7 Utah (after leading the entire game they let it get away in the final 2:20) and a fluke win by yo-yo Stanford in the first game of the season. Penn State cannot run against the Beaver Defense and so they have to go to the air. The Corners have matured, and smothered USC's receivers, and the Defensive backfield has tightened up the coverage. The real battle will be in the trenches to see if the Penn State Offensive line can keep the Beaver Defensive Line from collapsing the Pocket. I don't think they can, but that will be one of the keys to the Beaver win i.e., penetration through the Penn State Offensive Line. The Beaver Offense is balanced and they are quite capable of breaking a long run or long pass on any given play. However, they are just as capable of mounting a long drive and patiently working it down the field before delivering the coup de grace. The only weakness on the Offense is the kicking game where the FG/PA kicker is green and a bit erratic. I make it: Beavers: 38 Penn State: 17
"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken
Observe: Now this, and a few other examples here, is what is known as "shaming language". We are now "wimpy" and we "whine", and we "bang drums". We are now "misogynists" (sp? I dont care enough to look it up) It is SOP for women to do this. It is just one trick they use to get what they want. Do I hate women? No. Christine is a woman, and from what I have seen she is one of the few good ones out there, and I am not just saying that.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”
LOL! That site is a little too hard core for me. I prefer to just ignore the "feminist pig bastards" while occasionally and figuratively spitting in their faces for fun.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”
Of course it was. That was the point. You have to put the video in context with Rowdee's post about male bonding.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976
Penn State: 17 Not the same team, eh? Well thank god, what I saw here was a HS level team. In fact they quit in the 4th quarter. Nobody here wants a rematch, as it will be ratings disaster. I can't imaging anyone tuning in except for the fans of the respective teams. I'm not a betting man, but I'll take PSU and lay the points. Does $200 work?
In zero context am I into real or simulated male masturbation. Sorry. Masturbation is like farts, your own smell fine, everyone else's are horribly malodorous and disgusting. If any guy I knew touched my ass like these "male bonder" do, I'd take a baseball bat to them.
It is SOP for women to do this. It is just one trick they use to get what they want. miz1;sogz1;yz1;ny 34; 34;/mjÈsRd’Yni, maj-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-] Show IPA Pronunciation –noun hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women Please tell me what the point was of the article and the thread posts if it was not to show various examples of misogyny. Frankly rowdee was being diplomatic in her remarks about what was being said about women to the tune of 33 posts some of which contained links to other equally disagreeable sites. Robnoel posted the article for the single purpose of eliciting posts and links as yours so female posters at 4um could read it all. None of you suggested to take the thread offline. None of you restricted the crude and negative remarks to focus on specific females in your lives. No, the remarks were a scatter shot put-down of women in general. And now you have the hubris to pretend that you're "offended" by the few comments that rowdee and I made as questions, rebuttals on that 200% off-color thread whose sole purpose was to denigrate women? My my what a thin skin you have. You delight in using free speech to showcase your attitudes to women but your boxers get in a twist when female posters exercise their free speech to respond. Do you think free speech is a one-way street? Maybe you should have used the bozo feature to protect yourself from the remarks of women like rowdee and scrapper whose "SOP" is to use "tricks" like "shaming language" on your gentle sensitive intellectual male self.
i concur and, Indie, you are one of them...one of my compatriots. Bump this one.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI had a single buddy of mine tell me that as long as he had internet porn and a hand he didn't need a woman.
#34. To: scrapper2 (#33)
Maybe I'm lost. I thought 4um was once a political discussion board.
#35. To: Hayek Fan, robnoel (#34)
I didn't post the article. I just made a comment. A comment that directly related to the article.
#36. To: Ferret Mike (#10)
#37. To: scrapper2 (#35)
You don't need to give me excuses. I'm not the moderator. I'm a lowly female poster. From my point of view all the posts on this thread have progressively become more misogynistic. And yes, misogyny is in keeping with the intent of the article poster.
#38. To: Hayek Fan (#37)
(Edited)
Well I can honestly say that it was not my intention to offend anyone, man or woman. When he told me that I thought it was funny. I thought others would too. Maybe it loses something in writing. Anyway, I've been married 17 years and feel no shame in saying that my life would be over if anything ever happened to her. She IS my happiness. I am the luckiest man alive...However, it is a fact that not everyone is as lucky as me. Some men have been shit on by their wives and/or girlfriends and are bitter over it.
#39. To: IndieTX (#24)
#40. To: scrapper2 (#38)
(Edited)
That's why I was surprised you chimed in with such crudeness on robnoel's article thread, that's all.
#41. To: scrapper2 (#33)
#42. To: rowdee (#41)
#43. To: rowdee (#36)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#44. To: Hayek Fan (#42)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#45. To: Ferret Mike (#44)
#46. To: Dakmar (#45)
#47. To: Ferret Mike (#44)
Guess that is a reason I can't stand football.
#48. To: Ferret Mike (#44)
Guess that is a reason I can't stand football.
#49. To: Jethro Tull (#47)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#50. To: Hayek Fan (#48)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#51. To: Ferret Mike, Christine (#43)
#52. To: Ferret Mike (#49)
Tell that to the Oregon State Beavers
#53. To: Jethro Tull (#52)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#54. To: rowdee (#39)
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#55. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#56. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
#57. To: rowdee, scrapper2, ALL MEN, christine, ALL (#41)
(Edited)
I can certainly understand the need for so many men to have a scapegoat..obviously, they aren't man enough to admit that they aren't exactly God's gift to wimmen!
To: scrapper2 I think they're into their 'men's weekend campout mode with drums--they sit around the campfire, banging on drums, and doing the 'male bonding' thing! LOL........
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#58. To: IndieTX (#57)
#59. To: rowdee, Indietx (#58)
4um needs good men.
#60. To: christine (#59)
4um needs good men.
Body Art Cobleskill, NY
#61. To: Critter (#60)
#62. To: christine (#61)
are you?
Body Art Cobleskill, NY
#63. To: rowdee, ALL (#58)
So stuff your whining about verbal abuse of men. Grow a set and get on with your life
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#64. To: rowdee, IndieTX, Hayek Fan (#58)
Well, duh! Sheet......YOU are the one who pinged ME----I didn't go looking to jump your ass! You wanted comments, based on YOUR comment on #25--which was just after YOU pinged ME on #24!...get on with your life.....don't let that ex-wife have any sort of oneupsman over you...
#65. To: Jethro Tull (#52)
When your Beavers showed up here in central PA we beat them like a base drum. Seriously, we pulled our starters in the 3rd quarter. We have HS teams that could compete w. the Beavers.
#66. To: rowdee, IndyTX, Christine, All (#41)
I'm getting a kick out of reading this crap--sort of like an inside look at the wimpy men and how they think/whine. Isn't this like those guys that get together and bang drums--male bonding or some such tommyrot?
#67. To: who knows what evil (#30)
From the header: "Rebuke The Sadistic Feminist Pig Bastards"
#68. To: Ferret Mike (#50)
Heh, I'll take your word for it. I found it disgusting and only got halfway through that.
#69. To: Original_Intent (#65)
Beavers: 38
#70. To: Hayek Fan (#68)
"Of course it was. That was the point. You have to put the video in context with Rowdee's post about male bonding."
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#71. To: PSUSA, rowdee, robnoel (#66)
(Edited)
Now this, and a few other examples here, is what is known as "shaming language". We are now "wimpy" and we "whine", and we "bang drums". We are now "misogynists" (sp? I dont care enough to look it up)
#72. To: christine, rowdee, IndieTX, a few good men, all (#59)
4um needs good men.
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