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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: A SYMBOL -- the “lake of fire”
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 28, 2008
Author: Richard -- various
Post Date: 2008-10-28 12:23:02 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 513
Comments: 29

A SYMBOL

In examining these texts we readily see that the “lake of fire” is not a literal pool of flame. The “wild beast” is symbolic, as earlier shown in Revelation chapter 13, the “image” of it being described in chapter 17, where we are told that the seven heads of the “beast” represent seven ‘mountainlike’ kingdoms. These are understood by Bible commentators to be the seven world powers of Bible history. The five that had “fallen” were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that “was” at the time the apostle John wrote was Rome. The seventh has proved, from historical events, to be the Anglo-American World Power.—Rev. 17:9, 10; compare Daniel chapter 8.

Similarly the “false prophet” is not a person, but is a system or an organization. A “prophet” claims to have inspired information for the direction of others. A “false prophet” would mislead others, to turn them away from God and toward false worship. What does this “false prophet” do to accomplish such purpose? He is shown in another guise in Revelation 13:11-17 as a two-horned “wild beast.” As such he is depicted as performing in front of the seven-headed “wild beast” the signs with which he misleads “those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.”—Rev. 19:20.

Since the “wild beast” and the “false prophet” are symbolic, the “lake of fire” is necessarily symbolic.

Further supporting this conclusion is the fact that the abstract thing, “death,” is also hurled into the “lake of fire.” Death cannot be literally burned.

Moreover, the demons are thrown into the “lake.” These are angels, spirit persons. Being spirit, they cannot be hurt by literal fire, which is a physical product of chemical combustion. In fact, we read often of spirit persons manifesting themselves to humans in a flame.—Ex. 3:1-5; Acts 7:30; Judg. 13:20; Ps. 104:4; Dan. 7:9, 10.

Of what, then, is the “lake of fire” a symbol? The Bible says that it is, or that it means or symbolizes, the “second death.” (Rev. 20:14) This cannot mean that everything that goes into it dies a second time, for “death and Hades” have not died or gone out of existence in the past. The expression “second death” distinguishes this death, which is permanent and everlasting and from which there is no resurrection, from the death brought upon the human race by Adam. Adamic death is one “kind” of death, a death that all men inherit through no personal fault of their own. The “second death” is another “kind” of death. Individuals that go into the “second death” merit it because of their own deliberate choice of sin and enmity toward God. This is evident by the action of those the Bible speaks of as being sentenced to the “second death.”

Further evidence or testimony as to what the “lake of fire” represents and who finally receive the judgment of this death is found in Revelation 21:7, 8. After describing the good effects that the New Jerusalem will bring about in the earth, the prophecy quotes the words of God, saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.” All persons who choose such a way of life and spurn God’s provision of Christ’s atonement sacrifice for recovering from such a degraded condition will thus be obliterated forever from existence.

So God’s fiery judgment comes upon all those who are his avowed enemies. Of those of the “Gog and Magog” crowd who follow the Devil in his renewed attack on God’s sovereignty at the end of the thousand years, we read: “Fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.” They go into the “second death.” The “lake of fire” likewise burns up all humans who do not obey the “things written in the scrolls” of instruction during Christ’s thousand-year rule. None of these finally find their names written in the “book of life.” (Rev. 20:9, 12, 15) The same punishment of “second death” is executed upon Satan and his demons, who are hurled into the “lake of fire.” All are everlastingly dead.

There is not a spark of life in the “second death,” which is the everlasting punishment for those who willfully disobey God. There was not a bit of life in the first kind of death, that which came to Adam’s offspring by his first sin. That first kind of death would have been permanent had it not been for the love and undeserved kindness of Jehovah God in providing Christ’s sacrifice. The “second death” is permanent, for there is no atonement sacrifice for those going into it. The apostle Paul wrote:

“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.”—Heb. 10:26, 27.

NO CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Those in the “lake of fire” do not have life. Their names are not written in any “book of life.” And life is life, whether spent in pleasure or in suffering pain. Accordingly, there is no consciousness or feeling of pain or suffering in the “lake of fire,” because there is no life there at all. Why, then, does the Bible speak of the Devil, the “wild beast” and the “false prophet” as being “tormented day and night forever and ever” in this “lake”?—Rev. 20:10.

It is because they are under the torment of restraint. When Jesus was on earth, the demons entreated him not to order them to go away into the “abyss.” (Luke 8:31) In a parallel account of the same incident, the demons asked Jesus: “Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” (Matt. 8:29) This being put into the “abyss” will be a “torment” because it will be a restraint.

Satan and his demons are, therefore, to suffer the “torment” of restraint by being hurled into the “abyss” just prior to the thousand-year reign of Christ. They will be restrained from all activity during that thousand years. Then they will be loosed after the thousand years end. (Rev. 20:7; compare Revelation 11:7; 17:8.) After the final attack on God’s sovereignty, the Devil and his demons are hurled into the “lake of fire,” where they suffer the “torment” of everlasting restraint, without letup, in the “second death.” They are completely annihilated, never to appear again. Moreover, all that they accomplished, all their works, will be erased from the universe.—1 John 3:8.

The truth that this being put into the “lake of fire” does not mean conscious pain of torment is shown in that the “wild beast” and the “false prophet,” both symbolic of systems or organizations, are spoken of as being “tormented day and night.” But systems or organizations cannot suffer pain. The “lake of fire” annihilates, destroys them. They are restrained from operating, forever. Never will such wicked organizations rise up to dominate or disturb mankind.

Also, death and Hades, mankind’s common grave, are done away with in the “lake of fire,” in that Adamic death will have been completely wiped out and Hades will have been emptied and will receive no more such dead. (Rev. 20:14) Certainly these two inanimate things can feel or experience no conscious suffering, but they can be restrained, put out of the way, forever.

ITS PURPOSE

The “lake of fire,” which means, or symbolizes, the “second death,” also ‘burns with sulphur.’ (Rev. 21:8) Sulphur ignites at a low temperature and burns quickly, thus tending to consume things that would not otherwise burn so readily. Sulphur was anciently used in fumigation. Thus the “lake that burns with fire and sulphur” would well represent a complete, everlasting destruction universally of everything and everyone that has “contaminated” it, carrying on filthy practices, challenging God’s sovereignty and bringing reproach upon his name. The “lake of fire” or “second death,” though always possible for God to use on the willfully disobedient, will not hold any threat to those who have been proved everlastingly loyal through the test of Satan’s loosing after the end of the thousand years of Christ’s reign. The faithful survivors of that test will have God’s guarantee of protection and the sustaining of their lives forever.—Rom. 8:21.

Thus the “lake of fire” is an important factor in God’s purposes. It is not something contrary to the personality of Jehovah God, who never conceived nor would ever countenance the eternal conscious torment of anyone. (Jer. 19:5; 32:35) It is in harmony with his personality of justice and loving-kindness, however, for God to clear out wicked troublemakers forever. For it is essential that justice be carried out in the universe for the sake of peace and order in behalf of those who want to do what is right.—Ps. 145:20.

Jehovah is not a ruler who is going to let crime and criminals continue to run rampant, taking away all peace and joy of living from law-abiding people. Neither is God harsh, so that there is no help for those who want to change their ways. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4) He allows full and fair opportunity for all. Those who go into the “lake of fire,” which is the “second death,” actually choose everlasting death rather than life, of their own free will and accord, because they selfishly violate the laws of the Universal Sovereign. He rightly requires respect and exclusive devotion. This cleaning out of such hardened rebels is the only way the universe can have peace. May all who want life learn about Jehovah’s ways so as to have their names written in the “book of life” for everlasting happiness. Subscribe to *Bible facts*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

#1. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

Neither is God harsh, so that there is no help for those who want to change their ways. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4) He allows full and fair opportunity for all. Those who go into the “lake of fire,” which is the “second death,” actually choose everlasting death rather than life, of their own free will and accord

That is absolutely no different than someone saying that people choose to go to hell. Granted, your ideas are a little more palatable to the average person. But it is still not true.

Tell me how God can be "all in all" ...

1 Co 15:28 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

... when a vast majority of that "all" is destroyed? It can't happen. All means all, except to theologians.

BTW, that single scripture rips to shreds another favorite churchianity doctrine that says Christ will rule forever. How many have seen that, and not just skipped over it?

Isaiah 26: 9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Is that a prophecy? Has it ever happened in the past?

Who are those people that will learn roghteousness via judgement?

"Individuals that go into the “second death” merit it because of their own deliberate choice of sin and enmity toward God."

Merit it? Deliberate choice?

Sorry, but no one has ever made a deliberate choice to sin. Name 1 person except Christ that has never sinned. Just one. We are sinning machines.

We are made that way. Romans 8 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

This scripture explicitely states that God is in charge, and He made us that way. Period.

Enmity towards God? Whose kindness leads us to repentence? Can you name 1 other way someone can repent? Apart from that, how many seeks after God? Scripture says no one, not one. So, how is this a choice that someone can make?

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   13:17:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1)

So, how is this a choice that someone can make?

A little cynical, aren't you?

According to you, there is no difference, for example, between you and Stalin.

Or you and the nearest mass murderer.

Or you and Hitler.

Or you and George Bush -- either one.

Paul who originally was Saul, of course, and who was a Phar., said himself that he was a sinner, but he still had a heavenly hope. To be one of the 144,000.

So to take this a step further, you are also saying that Paul is the same as Stalin, Hitler, George Bush, and that nearest mass murderer.

Right? You can see no distinction between them, at all.

Amazing.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   13:27:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#2)

You ever hear "there but for the grace of God go I"?

If I had been born and lived under the same circumstances as Hitler, Stalin, Gacy, Bundy, or anyone else, I'd have done the same things. So would you.

You are patting yourself on the back for your own righteousness. You are boasting. You think that just because you aren't as bad as another more infamous person, that makes it all OK? That is a dangerous position to be in.

So, can you answer the question?

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   13:36:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: PSUSA (#3)

So would you.

No, I would not. Absolutely not. And neither would most people. Which is why there are so few mass murderers, and so few who seize power. Most turn away, and rightfully so.

I already did. You can not draw a distinction between evil and those who willingly choose evil and sinners.

I really do not understand those who say that Hitler will enjoy everlasting life along side other lawless men such as Stalin. Where is the Perfect Justice in that?! And, I might add, where it the everlasting peace in such an arrangement?

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   13:49:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: richard9151 (#7)

No, I would not. Absolutely not. And neither would most people. Which is why there are so few mass murderers, and so few who seize power. Most turn away, and rightfully so.

No,

Most aren't born psychopaths. Psychopaths do not just turn away.

If you were born like that, and lived their screwed up lives, you would do the same kinds of things. You are not a "special case".

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   14:21:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PSUSA (#11)

"special case".

Show me anywhere that I claimed to be. I make mistakes, and have asked for correction here in the 4um as well as elsewhere. But, it has to be shown how I am in error first, then I will repent and change. I just did, after a year and a half of Bible study with a Jehovah's Witness, where he showed me how little I understood.

I have been around others who understood as much or more than I do, but I have NEVER been around a group of people who understand more than I do, until now. Care to guess who that group of people is, or, do you already know?

Do you know what stops most people from doing a good, through Bible study? Fear, fear that they may be faced with changes in their comfortable lives. For such people I hold not much hope, because the Truth is for everyone except those who can not handle it. Who can not change. Who fear change. Who fear repentance, and such as that have no hope for everlasting life.

Such would rather celebrate Christmas than celebrate Almighty God and His Wonders and Promises.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   15:53:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: richard9151 (#13) (Edited)

"special case". Show me anywhere that I claimed to be.

You are so much better than Hitler and Stalin.

You arent better. You break one law, you are guilty of all.

"Care to guess who that group of people is, or, do you already know? "

No, who are they? :)

"Do you know what stops most people from doing a good, through Bible study? Fear, fear that they may be faced with changes in their comfortable lives."

Book, chapter and verse, please? What does scripture say?

"For such people I hold not much hope, because the Truth is for everyone except those who can not handle it. Who can not change. Who fear change. Who fear repentance, and such as that have no hope for everlasting life. "

Cannot handle it? Really? I dont know about you, but with me, truth was not handed over on a silver platter. You wouldn't believe me if I told you the things I checked out.

Now, what scripture says is that God has blinded them to the truth. It's His "fault".

John 12 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

If you want to blame someone, blame God.

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   16:53:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: PSUSA (#17)

You are so much better than Hitler and Stalin.

I certainly hope so. I have made decisions in my life that turned me away from evil, rather than towards it. Just how much time do you figure Stalin, or Hitler or Mao, spent worrying about what Almighty God thought of their actions? Or Gacy or Bundy.

"Do you know what stops most people from doing a good, through Bible study? Fear, fear that they may be faced with changes in their comfortable lives."

I will address this separately, in a second answer to this in this thread.

Cannot handle it? Really? I dont know about you, but with me, truth was not handed over on a silver platter. You wouldn't believe me if I told you the things I checked out.

I was not referring to you, and yes, I would believe you. It took a year and a half of weekly (and more) Bible study for the info to get through to me. I had also checked out a LOT and done more research than I cared to remember, always searching. So yes, I believe you having been through it as well.

If you want to blame someone, blame God.

Nope. Not going there. I have no right to blame or judge Almighty God; that is His department, and I want nothing to do with that responsiblity. AT ALL. It is said in the Bible that He reads the hearts, and the kidneys and makes His decision on what He reads. I am not capable of that, and never will be. His department and responsiblity, thanks by to Him.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   23:02:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: richard9151 (#21)

It is said in the Bible that He reads the hearts, and the kidneys and makes His decision on what He reads.

What Bible are you referring to?

I was just passing through and that caught my eye.....another pretty good indication of where JW comes from:

quick search:

A History of Medicine - Google Books Result by Plinio Prioreschi - 1995 - Medicine ... and cannot be simply eliminated by assuming a false textual reading."54 Here is a capsule of Talmudic physiology: The kidneys prompt, the heart discerns ... books.google.com/books?isbn=1888456035...

The Role of the Kidney as a Religious, Cultural and Sexual Symbol kidneys. In the Judaic tradition of the Talmud we read,. ‘There are two kidneys in the man, ... heart and kidneys. The examination alone of these organs ... content.karger.com/Produk...be=227786&ArtikelNr=63747

The Kidneys, and other Internal Organs | sixthirteen.org O God of Hosts, O Just Judge, who tests the kidneys and the heart. .... Boyarin, Daniel, Carnal Israel: Reading Sex in Talmudic Culture. University of ... sixthirteen.org/blog/2002...ys_and_other_internal.php

The history of nephrology in the Talmudic corpus. [Am J Nephrol ... 1: Am J Nephrol. 2002 Jul;22(2-3):119-29. Click here to read ... The Talmudic corpus considers the kidneys to be the origin of secret counsels--"the kidneys ... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097728

The Kidneys in the Bible: What Happened? -- Eknoyan 16 (12): 3464 ... This use of the heart and kidneys in parallel seems to have its roots in Egypt ..... kidneys give advice"—Some thoughts on nephrology in the Talmud and the ... jasn.asnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/12/3464

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-10-29   10:20:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#24)

I was just passing through and that caught my eye.....another pretty good indication of where JW comes from:

Simply amazing the flights of fancy you get into.

The “Kidneys” and the “Heart” in the Scriptures

THE literal kidneys represent a region of the body lower than the fleshly heart. According to one of the definitions, the kidneys are the seat of human feelings, affections and passions. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary links the kidneys with the person’s “temperament.” At Revelation 2:23 the resurrected, glorified Jesus Christ says: “I am he who searches the kidneys and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds.” (See also Jeremiah 11:20, footnote, NW, Reference Bible.) The kidneys and the heart are different organs of the body and are in different locations. The physical kidneys are lower down in the body than the physical heart. These also have different reactions to different stimuli. These reactions would signify something. Thus such reactions could be read or observed as denoting different qualities that indicate what sort of person the searched individual is. Is one’s literal heart moved to beat faster or, as it were, to grow cold? Are his kidneys stimulated to function at an unusual time and in an odd manner? The Searcher of the hearts and kidneys is able to interpret such reactions and more thoroughly understand the person, as to what sort of kidney he is.

At Psalm 16:6-8 the composer David writes: “The measuring lines themselves have fallen for me in pleasant places. Really, my own possession has proved agreeable to me. I shall bless Jehovah, who has given me advice. Really, during the night my kidneys have corrected me. I have placed Jehovah in front of me constantly. Because he is at my right hand, I shall not be made to totter.” How, in fact, did David’s kidneys correct him during the nights when he would be awake? Well, if David had had any misgivings as to Jehovah’s attitude toward him, what sort of person he really was, his figurative kidneys would give him a correct assessment of Jehovah’s purpose toward him. That is why David went on to say: “For you will not leave my soul in Sheol. You will not allow your loyal one to see the pit.”—Psalm 16:10.

Of course, David will have a resurrection from the grave, or Sheol, in Jehovah’s due time; but, under inspiration on the day of Pentecost of 33 C.E., 50 days after the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the apostle Peter applied Psalm 16:10 to Jesus Christ, Peter saying at Acts 2:25-28: “For David says respecting him, ‘I had Jehovah constantly before my eyes; because he is at my right hand that I may never be shaken. On this account my heart became cheerful and my tongue rejoiced greatly. Moreover, even my flesh will reside in hope; because you will not leave my soul in Hades, neither will you allow your loyal one to see corruption. You have made life’s ways known to me, you will fill me with good cheer with your face.’”

The cheerful heart enlivened the psalmist David, and likewise the cheerful heart made the earthly life of David’s great antitype, Jesus Christ, active. The natural heart also affects the body, just as Proverbs 14:30 says: “A calm heart is the life of the fleshly organism.” The heart of the Greater David, Jesus Christ, could remain calm with a steady heartbeat and blood flow even under provocative circumstances, yes, under persecution and physical mistreatment, up until the time of his impalement. It was only then that he died of a broken heart.—Psalm 69:20.

At Hebrews 4:12 it is stated that “the word of God . . . is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” This signifies that “the heart” is the thing that induces and motivates the thoughts and intentions, which are discerned by “the word of God.”

[Footnotes]

Regarding “kidney,” see also The Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary; The Concise Oxford Dictionary; The Random House Dictionary of the English Language (Unabridged); The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language; Webster’s New World Dictionary of the American Language.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-29   10:56:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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