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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: A SYMBOL -- the “lake of fire”
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Oct 28, 2008
Author: Richard -- various
Post Date: 2008-10-28 12:23:02 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 491
Comments: 29

A SYMBOL

In examining these texts we readily see that the “lake of fire” is not a literal pool of flame. The “wild beast” is symbolic, as earlier shown in Revelation chapter 13, the “image” of it being described in chapter 17, where we are told that the seven heads of the “beast” represent seven ‘mountainlike’ kingdoms. These are understood by Bible commentators to be the seven world powers of Bible history. The five that had “fallen” were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that “was” at the time the apostle John wrote was Rome. The seventh has proved, from historical events, to be the Anglo-American World Power.—Rev. 17:9, 10; compare Daniel chapter 8.

Similarly the “false prophet” is not a person, but is a system or an organization. A “prophet” claims to have inspired information for the direction of others. A “false prophet” would mislead others, to turn them away from God and toward false worship. What does this “false prophet” do to accomplish such purpose? He is shown in another guise in Revelation 13:11-17 as a two-horned “wild beast.” As such he is depicted as performing in front of the seven-headed “wild beast” the signs with which he misleads “those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image.”—Rev. 19:20.

Since the “wild beast” and the “false prophet” are symbolic, the “lake of fire” is necessarily symbolic.

Further supporting this conclusion is the fact that the abstract thing, “death,” is also hurled into the “lake of fire.” Death cannot be literally burned.

Moreover, the demons are thrown into the “lake.” These are angels, spirit persons. Being spirit, they cannot be hurt by literal fire, which is a physical product of chemical combustion. In fact, we read often of spirit persons manifesting themselves to humans in a flame.—Ex. 3:1-5; Acts 7:30; Judg. 13:20; Ps. 104:4; Dan. 7:9, 10.

Of what, then, is the “lake of fire” a symbol? The Bible says that it is, or that it means or symbolizes, the “second death.” (Rev. 20:14) This cannot mean that everything that goes into it dies a second time, for “death and Hades” have not died or gone out of existence in the past. The expression “second death” distinguishes this death, which is permanent and everlasting and from which there is no resurrection, from the death brought upon the human race by Adam. Adamic death is one “kind” of death, a death that all men inherit through no personal fault of their own. The “second death” is another “kind” of death. Individuals that go into the “second death” merit it because of their own deliberate choice of sin and enmity toward God. This is evident by the action of those the Bible speaks of as being sentenced to the “second death.”

Further evidence or testimony as to what the “lake of fire” represents and who finally receive the judgment of this death is found in Revelation 21:7, 8. After describing the good effects that the New Jerusalem will bring about in the earth, the prophecy quotes the words of God, saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.” All persons who choose such a way of life and spurn God’s provision of Christ’s atonement sacrifice for recovering from such a degraded condition will thus be obliterated forever from existence.

So God’s fiery judgment comes upon all those who are his avowed enemies. Of those of the “Gog and Magog” crowd who follow the Devil in his renewed attack on God’s sovereignty at the end of the thousand years, we read: “Fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.” They go into the “second death.” The “lake of fire” likewise burns up all humans who do not obey the “things written in the scrolls” of instruction during Christ’s thousand-year rule. None of these finally find their names written in the “book of life.” (Rev. 20:9, 12, 15) The same punishment of “second death” is executed upon Satan and his demons, who are hurled into the “lake of fire.” All are everlastingly dead.

There is not a spark of life in the “second death,” which is the everlasting punishment for those who willfully disobey God. There was not a bit of life in the first kind of death, that which came to Adam’s offspring by his first sin. That first kind of death would have been permanent had it not been for the love and undeserved kindness of Jehovah God in providing Christ’s sacrifice. The “second death” is permanent, for there is no atonement sacrifice for those going into it. The apostle Paul wrote:

“If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and there is a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition.”—Heb. 10:26, 27.

NO CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Those in the “lake of fire” do not have life. Their names are not written in any “book of life.” And life is life, whether spent in pleasure or in suffering pain. Accordingly, there is no consciousness or feeling of pain or suffering in the “lake of fire,” because there is no life there at all. Why, then, does the Bible speak of the Devil, the “wild beast” and the “false prophet” as being “tormented day and night forever and ever” in this “lake”?—Rev. 20:10.

It is because they are under the torment of restraint. When Jesus was on earth, the demons entreated him not to order them to go away into the “abyss.” (Luke 8:31) In a parallel account of the same incident, the demons asked Jesus: “Did you come here to torment us before the appointed time?” (Matt. 8:29) This being put into the “abyss” will be a “torment” because it will be a restraint.

Satan and his demons are, therefore, to suffer the “torment” of restraint by being hurled into the “abyss” just prior to the thousand-year reign of Christ. They will be restrained from all activity during that thousand years. Then they will be loosed after the thousand years end. (Rev. 20:7; compare Revelation 11:7; 17:8.) After the final attack on God’s sovereignty, the Devil and his demons are hurled into the “lake of fire,” where they suffer the “torment” of everlasting restraint, without letup, in the “second death.” They are completely annihilated, never to appear again. Moreover, all that they accomplished, all their works, will be erased from the universe.—1 John 3:8.

The truth that this being put into the “lake of fire” does not mean conscious pain of torment is shown in that the “wild beast” and the “false prophet,” both symbolic of systems or organizations, are spoken of as being “tormented day and night.” But systems or organizations cannot suffer pain. The “lake of fire” annihilates, destroys them. They are restrained from operating, forever. Never will such wicked organizations rise up to dominate or disturb mankind.

Also, death and Hades, mankind’s common grave, are done away with in the “lake of fire,” in that Adamic death will have been completely wiped out and Hades will have been emptied and will receive no more such dead. (Rev. 20:14) Certainly these two inanimate things can feel or experience no conscious suffering, but they can be restrained, put out of the way, forever.

ITS PURPOSE

The “lake of fire,” which means, or symbolizes, the “second death,” also ‘burns with sulphur.’ (Rev. 21:8) Sulphur ignites at a low temperature and burns quickly, thus tending to consume things that would not otherwise burn so readily. Sulphur was anciently used in fumigation. Thus the “lake that burns with fire and sulphur” would well represent a complete, everlasting destruction universally of everything and everyone that has “contaminated” it, carrying on filthy practices, challenging God’s sovereignty and bringing reproach upon his name. The “lake of fire” or “second death,” though always possible for God to use on the willfully disobedient, will not hold any threat to those who have been proved everlastingly loyal through the test of Satan’s loosing after the end of the thousand years of Christ’s reign. The faithful survivors of that test will have God’s guarantee of protection and the sustaining of their lives forever.—Rom. 8:21.

Thus the “lake of fire” is an important factor in God’s purposes. It is not something contrary to the personality of Jehovah God, who never conceived nor would ever countenance the eternal conscious torment of anyone. (Jer. 19:5; 32:35) It is in harmony with his personality of justice and loving-kindness, however, for God to clear out wicked troublemakers forever. For it is essential that justice be carried out in the universe for the sake of peace and order in behalf of those who want to do what is right.—Ps. 145:20.

Jehovah is not a ruler who is going to let crime and criminals continue to run rampant, taking away all peace and joy of living from law-abiding people. Neither is God harsh, so that there is no help for those who want to change their ways. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4) He allows full and fair opportunity for all. Those who go into the “lake of fire,” which is the “second death,” actually choose everlasting death rather than life, of their own free will and accord, because they selfishly violate the laws of the Universal Sovereign. He rightly requires respect and exclusive devotion. This cleaning out of such hardened rebels is the only way the universe can have peace. May all who want life learn about Jehovah’s ways so as to have their names written in the “book of life” for everlasting happiness. Subscribe to *Bible facts*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 28.

#1. To: richard9151 (#0) (Edited)

Neither is God harsh, so that there is no help for those who want to change their ways. (1 Tim. 2:3, 4) He allows full and fair opportunity for all. Those who go into the “lake of fire,” which is the “second death,” actually choose everlasting death rather than life, of their own free will and accord

That is absolutely no different than someone saying that people choose to go to hell. Granted, your ideas are a little more palatable to the average person. But it is still not true.

Tell me how God can be "all in all" ...

1 Co 15:28 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

... when a vast majority of that "all" is destroyed? It can't happen. All means all, except to theologians.

BTW, that single scripture rips to shreds another favorite churchianity doctrine that says Christ will rule forever. How many have seen that, and not just skipped over it?

Isaiah 26: 9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Is that a prophecy? Has it ever happened in the past?

Who are those people that will learn roghteousness via judgement?

"Individuals that go into the “second death” merit it because of their own deliberate choice of sin and enmity toward God."

Merit it? Deliberate choice?

Sorry, but no one has ever made a deliberate choice to sin. Name 1 person except Christ that has never sinned. Just one. We are sinning machines.

We are made that way. Romans 8 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

This scripture explicitely states that God is in charge, and He made us that way. Period.

Enmity towards God? Whose kindness leads us to repentence? Can you name 1 other way someone can repent? Apart from that, how many seeks after God? Scripture says no one, not one. So, how is this a choice that someone can make?

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   13:17:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1)

So, how is this a choice that someone can make?

A little cynical, aren't you?

According to you, there is no difference, for example, between you and Stalin.

Or you and the nearest mass murderer.

Or you and Hitler.

Or you and George Bush -- either one.

Paul who originally was Saul, of course, and who was a Phar., said himself that he was a sinner, but he still had a heavenly hope. To be one of the 144,000.

So to take this a step further, you are also saying that Paul is the same as Stalin, Hitler, George Bush, and that nearest mass murderer.

Right? You can see no distinction between them, at all.

Amazing.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   13:27:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#2)

You ever hear "there but for the grace of God go I"?

If I had been born and lived under the same circumstances as Hitler, Stalin, Gacy, Bundy, or anyone else, I'd have done the same things. So would you.

You are patting yourself on the back for your own righteousness. You are boasting. You think that just because you aren't as bad as another more infamous person, that makes it all OK? That is a dangerous position to be in.

So, can you answer the question?

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   13:36:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: PSUSA (#3)

So would you.

No, I would not. Absolutely not. And neither would most people. Which is why there are so few mass murderers, and so few who seize power. Most turn away, and rightfully so.

I already did. You can not draw a distinction between evil and those who willingly choose evil and sinners.

I really do not understand those who say that Hitler will enjoy everlasting life along side other lawless men such as Stalin. Where is the Perfect Justice in that?! And, I might add, where it the everlasting peace in such an arrangement?

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   13:49:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: richard9151 (#7)

No, I would not. Absolutely not. And neither would most people. Which is why there are so few mass murderers, and so few who seize power. Most turn away, and rightfully so.

No,

Most aren't born psychopaths. Psychopaths do not just turn away.

If you were born like that, and lived their screwed up lives, you would do the same kinds of things. You are not a "special case".

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   14:21:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PSUSA (#11)

"special case".

Show me anywhere that I claimed to be. I make mistakes, and have asked for correction here in the 4um as well as elsewhere. But, it has to be shown how I am in error first, then I will repent and change. I just did, after a year and a half of Bible study with a Jehovah's Witness, where he showed me how little I understood.

I have been around others who understood as much or more than I do, but I have NEVER been around a group of people who understand more than I do, until now. Care to guess who that group of people is, or, do you already know?

Do you know what stops most people from doing a good, through Bible study? Fear, fear that they may be faced with changes in their comfortable lives. For such people I hold not much hope, because the Truth is for everyone except those who can not handle it. Who can not change. Who fear change. Who fear repentance, and such as that have no hope for everlasting life.

Such would rather celebrate Christmas than celebrate Almighty God and His Wonders and Promises.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   15:53:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: richard9151 (#13) (Edited)

"special case". Show me anywhere that I claimed to be.

You are so much better than Hitler and Stalin.

You arent better. You break one law, you are guilty of all.

"Care to guess who that group of people is, or, do you already know? "

No, who are they? :)

"Do you know what stops most people from doing a good, through Bible study? Fear, fear that they may be faced with changes in their comfortable lives."

Book, chapter and verse, please? What does scripture say?

"For such people I hold not much hope, because the Truth is for everyone except those who can not handle it. Who can not change. Who fear change. Who fear repentance, and such as that have no hope for everlasting life. "

Cannot handle it? Really? I dont know about you, but with me, truth was not handed over on a silver platter. You wouldn't believe me if I told you the things I checked out.

Now, what scripture says is that God has blinded them to the truth. It's His "fault".

John 12 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

If you want to blame someone, blame God.

PSUSA  posted on  2008-10-28   16:53:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: PSUSA (#17)

You are so much better than Hitler and Stalin.

I certainly hope so. I have made decisions in my life that turned me away from evil, rather than towards it. Just how much time do you figure Stalin, or Hitler or Mao, spent worrying about what Almighty God thought of their actions? Or Gacy or Bundy.

"Do you know what stops most people from doing a good, through Bible study? Fear, fear that they may be faced with changes in their comfortable lives."

I will address this separately, in a second answer to this in this thread.

Cannot handle it? Really? I dont know about you, but with me, truth was not handed over on a silver platter. You wouldn't believe me if I told you the things I checked out.

I was not referring to you, and yes, I would believe you. It took a year and a half of weekly (and more) Bible study for the info to get through to me. I had also checked out a LOT and done more research than I cared to remember, always searching. So yes, I believe you having been through it as well.

If you want to blame someone, blame God.

Nope. Not going there. I have no right to blame or judge Almighty God; that is His department, and I want nothing to do with that responsiblity. AT ALL. It is said in the Bible that He reads the hearts, and the kidneys and makes His decision on what He reads. I am not capable of that, and never will be. His department and responsiblity, thanks by to Him.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-28   23:02:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: richard9151 (#21)

It is said in the Bible that He reads the hearts, and the kidneys and makes His decision on what He reads.

What Bible are you referring to?

I was just passing through and that caught my eye.....another pretty good indication of where JW comes from:

quick search:

A History of Medicine - Google Books Result by Plinio Prioreschi - 1995 - Medicine ... and cannot be simply eliminated by assuming a false textual reading."54 Here is a capsule of Talmudic physiology: The kidneys prompt, the heart discerns ... books.google.com/books?isbn=1888456035...

The Role of the Kidney as a Religious, Cultural and Sexual Symbol kidneys. In the Judaic tradition of the Talmud we read,. ‘There are two kidneys in the man, ... heart and kidneys. The examination alone of these organs ... content.karger.com/Produk...be=227786&ArtikelNr=63747

The Kidneys, and other Internal Organs | sixthirteen.org O God of Hosts, O Just Judge, who tests the kidneys and the heart. .... Boyarin, Daniel, Carnal Israel: Reading Sex in Talmudic Culture. University of ... sixthirteen.org/blog/2002...ys_and_other_internal.php

The history of nephrology in the Talmudic corpus. [Am J Nephrol ... 1: Am J Nephrol. 2002 Jul;22(2-3):119-29. Click here to read ... The Talmudic corpus considers the kidneys to be the origin of secret counsels--"the kidneys ... www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12097728

The Kidneys in the Bible: What Happened? -- Eknoyan 16 (12): 3464 ... This use of the heart and kidneys in parallel seems to have its roots in Egypt ..... kidneys give advice"—Some thoughts on nephrology in the Talmud and the ... jasn.asnjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/12/3464

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-10-29   10:20:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#24)

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake [it] not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade [them] not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mar 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and [of] the leaven of Herod.

] Luk 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

On the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven,Matthew 13, Luke 13 [Jesus planted the good seed in the field; the field is the world; the good seed is the wheat/mustard seed; the bad seed [or LEAVEN] was planted by the wicked one, the Devil]:

Luk 13:21 It [Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven] is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

1Cr 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

] 1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

The Zionist Jew, According to the Jewish Encyclopedia. The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent, without a break, through all the centuries, from the PHARISEES.... www.sweetliberty.org/zionism.htm

Cornwallis to George Washington: A holy war will now begin against America...HER CHURCHES WILL BE USED TO TEACH THE JEWS' RELIGION [read "LEAVEN"]....and she will be working for divine government...the BRITISH EMPIRE [Judeo-"British-Israel"]...under the all seeing eye of [Judeo] Freemasonry [paraphrased]. [see: The Scepter of Judah http://www.freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=75182 ]

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/hoax/greatesthoax.htm

".... "Jonathan Williams recorded in his LEGIONS OF SATAN, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington that "a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown." Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction: "Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry." And indeed George Washington himself was a Mason, and he gave back through a false religion what he had won with his army.

"Cornwallis well knew that his military defeat was only the beginning of world catastrophe that would be universal and that unrest would continue until mind control could be accomplished through a false religion. What he predicted has come to pass. A brief sketch of American religious history and we have seen Masonry infused into every church in America With their veiled Phallic religion.

"Darby and the Plymouth Brethren brought a Jewish Christianity to America. Masons Rutherford and Russell started Jehovah Witnesses' Judaism which is now worldwide with their message of the divine kingdom. Mason Joseph Smith started Mormon Judaism with its Jewish teaching of millennialism.

"At the turn of the twentieth century there appeared the Scofield Bible with a Jewish interpretation of the prophecies. With wide use of this "helpful" aid all the American churches have silently become synagogues. We now have Baptist Jews, Methodist Jews, Church of God Jews, apostate Catholic Jews, and many Protestant Jews throughout America. We are aliens in our own country because of false religion. All are praying for divine deliverance into that "Divine Government" which Cornwallis knew to be the British Empire.

"A false religion has been used to deceive us into allegiance to our enemies of Yorktown and Bunker Hill. No! Not a gun has been fired but the invisible and malignant process of conquering America with the Jew's religion has gone on unabated. The Union Jack has been planted in our hearts with religious deception. All has happened "legally," "constitutionally," "freely" and completely within our most sacred trust -- our churches. Religious deception is painless innoculation against truth. It cannot be removed from the conscience with surgery, yet it is the motivator of our actions and directly controls our lives. Once man gives over to false religion, he is no longer rational because he originates no thought. His life is controlled by whomever controls his religion.

"The veil of false religion is the sword of Damocles and its power to control humanity defies even the imagination of tyrants who use it."

"This is not to say that George Washington was a traitor willingly, or knowingly. He was beguiled into a Satanic religious order that insidiously controls men's minds. So have American statesmen and military leaders down through the years given aid and allegiance to the enemies of the United States because they did not have knowledge of the invisible subterfuge that stalks this land. My eyes were opened the day my colleague from Ohio handed me Wagner's FREEMASONRY AN INTERPRETATION. If every American would read it, they would no longer ask why and how it has happened."

Given by Senator Joseph McCarthy, six months before his mouth was closed forever. End of quote from GEORGE WASHINGTON'S SURRENDER.

We have a final note for optimism. We sincerely believe that America can and will survive if her people are willing to come face to face with the propagandists who are trying to beguile us into World Government with a misuse of Bible prophecy. It is time to touch the untouchables and shake their ivory towers of constitutionally protected religion and lay open for all to see what is being done to us in the name of Christ. ......."

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issu...ax/unionjack_epilogue.htm

http://www.sweetliberty.org/pers...e/jewishpersecution18.htm

http://www.sweetliberty.org/pers...e/jewishpersecution19.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2008-10-29   10:56:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#27)

Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Leaven ... of the Pharisees and the Sadducees .... ummmm. Would that be like, you know, celebrating Xmas, the birth of Tammuz the son of god (Nimrod).... you know, kind of like that? Maybe? Perhaps? Ummmmm?

Or maybe Easter, you know, the goddess of fertility and sexual excess ... you know, kind of like that? Maybe? Perhaps? Ummmmm?

Or does it mean to baptize babies .... you know, kind of like that? Maybe? Perhaps? Ummmmm?

Or what other part of the apostasy of Christendom, like the trinity, that came through the Roman church .... you know, kind of like that? Maybe? Perhaps? Ummmmm?

Or maybe it means turning Jesus Christ into God Almighty, regardless of what the Bible says .... you know, kind of like that? Maybe? Perhaps? Ummmmm?

Am I missing anything here? I am quite sure I could write a book here, so just let me know if you want more.

richard9151  posted on  2008-10-29   15:34:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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