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(s)Elections
See other (s)Elections Articles

Title: Obama Must Stand Up Now or Step Down
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm
Published: Oct 29, 2008
Author: Edwin Vieira
Post Date: 2008-10-29 13:46:02 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 4358
Comments: 201

America is facing potentially the gravest constitutional crisis in her history. Barack Obama must either stand up in a public forum and prove, with conclusive documentary evidence, that he is “a natural born Citizen” of the United States who has not renounced his American citizenship—or he must step down as the Democratic Party’s candidate for President of the United States—preferably before the election is held, and in any event before the Electoral College meets. Because, pursuant to the Constitution, only “a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of th[e] Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 4). And Obama clearly was not “a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of th[e] Constitution.”

Whether the evidence will show that Obama is, or is not, “a natural born Citizen” who has never renounced his American citizenship is an open question. The arguments on both sides are as yet speculative. But Obama’s stubborn refusal to provide what he claims is “his own” country with conclusive proof on that score compels the presumption that he knows, or at least strongly suspects, that no sufficient evidence in his favor exists. After all, he is not being pressed to solve a problem in quantum physics that is “above his pay grade,” but only asked to provide the public with the original copy of some official record that establishes his citizenship. The vast majority of Americans could easily do so. Why will Obama not dispel the doubts about his eligibility—unless he can not?

Now that Obama’s citizenship has been seriously questioned, the burden of proof rests squarely on his shoulders. The “burden of establishing a delegation of power to the United States * * * is upon those making the claim.” Bute v. Illinois, 333 U.S. 640, 653 (1948). And if each of the General Government’s powers must be proven (not simply presumed) to exist, then every requirement that the Constitution sets for any individual’s exercise of those powers must also be proven (not simply presumed) to be fully satisfied before that individual may exercise any of those powers. The Constitution’s command that “[n]o Person except a natural born Citizen * * * shall be eligible to the Office of President” is an absolute prohibition against the exercise of each and every Presidential power by certain unqualified individuals. Actually (not simply presumptively or speculatively) being “a natural born Citizen” is the condition precedent sine qua non for avoiding this prohibition. Therefore, anyone who claims eligibility for “the Office of President” must, when credibly challenged, establish his qualifications in this regard with sufficient evidence.

In disposing of the lawsuit Berg v. Obama, which squarely presents the question of Obama’s true citizenship, the presiding judge complained that Berg “would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotly contested presidential primary in living memory.” This is exceptionally thin hogwash. A proper judicial inquiry into Obama’s eligibility for “the Office of President” will not deny his supporters a “right” to vote for him—rather, it will determine whether they have any such “right” at all. For, just as Obama’s “right” to stand for election to “the Office of President” is contingent upon his being “a natural born Citizen,” so too are the “rights” of his partisans to vote for him contingent upon whether he is even eligible for that “Office.” If Obama is ineligible, then no one can claim any “right” to vote for him. Indeed, in that case every American who does vote has a constitutional duty to vote against him.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 197.

#1. To: christine (#0)

Now that Obama’s citizenship has been seriously questioned

LOL - is the author building a straw man or... maybe a snow man? We got about a foot of wet snow here (PA) so, if anyone needs some to build the 'man', anyone is welcome. Bring a truck or 2.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-10-29   13:49:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#1)

When and to whom did the Messiah produce his birth cert?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-10-29   13:51:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Jethro Tull (#2)

When and to whom did the Messiah produce his birth cert?

You know, this is not one of them things that keep me from sleeping at night. Should we agree that there is a process that's in line with the constitution where one files to run for the US prez job? If such a process exists and if you are familiar with it, you may be able to find out when and to whom the Messiah produced his birth cert.

By the way, isn't there some commandment that says that thou shall not take the name of the Lord in vain? But, not everyone is a Xtian, right? Maybe you're a Mooslim so that commandment don't apply to you.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-10-29   13:56:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#3)

Should we agree that there is a process that's in line with the constitution where one files to run for the US prez job?

how about we consider that that process was most likely abated by the traitorous america hating powers who are in the process of showing us once and for all that they install who they want?

christine  posted on  2008-10-29   14:15:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: christine (#10) (Edited)

we consider that that process was most likely abated by the traitorous america hating powers who are in the process of showing us once and for all that they install who they want?

If Berg is the mensch that he claims he is, he should identify the traitorous person who accepted Obama's registration and challenge that traitorous enemy to prove that Obama met the qualifications.

I am sorry to say, but you are falling for the dogs and ponies shows. All this agitation means nothing and leads nowhere because there no 'where' for it to go.

And, one more thing. Do note that McCain did beat Paul and all the other GOPs running, fair and square. You may not like it and I don't like it for sure but, McCain earned his GOP nomination and so did Obama earn his Demo nomination, beating the crap out of Hillary. If you disagree with the 2-party system or with the system we call 'representative democracy' or 'democratic republic' that's fine. I do too. But, trust me, Obama showing or not showing his birth certificate to Berg is not going to solve a thing.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-10-29   14:27:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#15)

All this agitation means nothing and leads nowhere because there no 'where' for it to go.

Spoken like a true Obama idolatress, rather than a Constitutionalist.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-10-29   14:30:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#16)

O good a food fight heres my take first off a google search shows it is pretty much the "fringe" web sites that are still pushing this, I did however find a story in Newsweek from August now I'm not saying Newsweek does not lean left but it was the closest I could find of a main stream media source covering this story....for what it's worth this is what they say.....

In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

www.newsweek.com/id/154599

robnoel  posted on  2008-10-29   14:44:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: robnoel (#20)

"FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate."

And that means what exactly?

Hello, anyone home?

When did the staffers of FactCheck.org ( an organization funded by the Annenberg Foundation cough, cough) become synonymous with THE FEDERAL ELECTIONS COMMISSION? Sheesh.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-10-29   15:05:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: scrapper2 (#31)

Bingo!!!

So, you're saying, it's none of Berg's business to peek at Obama's papers.

Thank you.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-10-29   15:07:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#32) (Edited)

Bingo!!!

So, you're saying, it's none of Berg's business to peek at Obama's papers.

Thank you.

No I'm not saying "that" which you allege.

Philip Berg is a Democratic Party member and he is a US citizen and voter and he has every right to question Obama's eligiblity to run for President as the Dem Party's candidate.

FactCheck staffers do not have standing to assure Philip Berg or for that matter the electorate at large that they have seen Obama's original birth certificate and it looked okay by them. Who cares about what "staffers of FactCheck" claim to have seen or not seen?

It's obvious that you and other Obamphiles are terrified that Obama is in fact ineligible to run for office.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-10-29   15:28:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: scrapper2 (#36)

Philip Berg is a Democratic Party member and he is a US citizen and voter and he has every right to question Obama's eligiblity to run for President

Are you saying that the FactCheck people are not US citizens and voters and, quite possibly, members of the Demo party?

I can't see the difference. Other than they asked nicely and were allowed to see something to which they were not entitled to see while Berg's show was, most likely, for the sake of publicity.

As you noted, it's not the FactCheck's or Berg's business to check Obama's papers. That is FEC's business.

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-10-29   15:46:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, robnoel (#38) (Edited)

Are you saying that the FactCheck people are not US citizens and voters and, quite possibly, members of the Demo party?

I can't see the difference. Other than they asked nicely and were allowed to see something to which they were not entitled to see while Berg's show was, most likely, for the sake of publicity.

As you noted, it's not the FactCheck's or Berg's business to check Obama's papers. That is FEC's business.

FactCheck staffers do not represent Philip Berg or the US electorate at large. What FactCheck staffers see or don't see is of significance only to themselves and to those dupes like yourself and robnoel who allow FactCheck staffers' opinions about Obama's eligibility have standing in your lives.

Fyi, Philip Berg addressed his suit to the Federal Election Commission as well as the DNC et al.

Although the FEC is primarily a regulatory commission with regards to campaign finances, the FEC is also the official gov't receiver and custodian of Statement of Candidacy - FEC Form 2 - and at the bottom of this form it states:

"NOTE: Submission of false, erroneous, or incomplete information may subject the person signing this Statement to penalties of 2U.S.C.§437g."

When Obama chose to fill out and sign this form, he made himself subject to penalties if he violated our nation's election laws by submitting false or erroneous or incomplete information.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-10-29   16:05:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: scrapper2 (#41)

What I see you all doing is no different than before Bush's war on Iraq I was a minority then as I am a minority now and you guys are chasing ghosts if this was a big deal it would be all over the media not relegated to a few website's with a few hundred posters....it reminds me of Vince Foster affair

robnoel  posted on  2008-10-29   18:27:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: robnoel (#57)

if this was a big deal it would be all over the media not relegated to a few website's with a few hundred posters....

What becomes a "big deal" and what doesn't, doesn't seem to be based in logic or fact.

duckhunter  posted on  2008-10-29   18:33:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: duckhunter (#60)

big deal

Imagine,

A reporter found to be gay, with his own xrated graphic solicitation website, assigned to the WhiteHouse pool, enters the executive area after hours, and exits late, and seems to have extraordinary access to the inner sanctums....

Scandal? Crisis? Whatever.......

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-10-29   18:36:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: swarthyguy, robnoel (#62)

Scandal? Crisis? Whatever.......

"relegated to a few website's with a few hundred posters."

duckhunter  posted on  2008-10-29   18:38:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: duckhunter (#63)

I'll take a money bet on this if anyone is game...trying to save you guys from making fools of yourselves which you all done a pretty job of!

robnoel  posted on  2008-10-29   18:51:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: robnoel (#65)

i guess we can conclude that you think that Edwin Vieira (constitutional lawyer) is making a fool of himself too? i'm surprised at your attitude on this, robby.

christine  posted on  2008-10-29   19:37:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: christine (#82) (Edited)

You should know me by now I don't follow the herd or Edwin I respect him but yes I think he is causing a lot of folks to gets their panties in knot over a none issue I've looked at the documents if they fake they are very good ones....Edwin has time on his side to prove his point.....from now till Jan 20th .....

PS , the phrase "natural born Citizen" is not defined anywhere in the Constitution itself and its interpretation has never been the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling.

robnoel  posted on  2008-10-29   20:06:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: robnoel (#87)

natural born Citizen

Doesn't need to be defined. Physically born in the USA. Second, if father not a citizen, then mother has to reside in the US 5 years after birth as noted above. The citizenship laws took this possiblity into account.

Technically, legally, he's not eligible. It's the only elective office he's not eligible for.

But as I say, why quibble.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-10-29   20:28:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: swarthyguy (#93)

Bottom line Philip Berg filed suit for documented proof that Obama was qualified to obtain office of President if elected. The case was dismissed based on Berg did not have standing ergo he now has a appeal pending before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Who knows how long that will take I guess it will be well after Jan 20th 2009 ....so my question why is everyone getting so bent out of shape it's a worthless exercise

robnoel  posted on  2008-10-29   20:44:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: robnoel (#95)

Vieira addresses "standing' here:

The judge in Berg v. Obama dismissed the case, not because Obama has actually proven that he is eligible for “the Office of President,” but instead because, simply as a voter, Berg supposedly lacks “standing” to challenge Obama’s eligibility:

regardless of questions of causation, the grievance remains too generalized to establish the existence of an injury in fact. * ** [A] candidate’s ineligibility under the Natural Born Citizen Clause does not result in an injury in fact to voters. By extension, the theoretical constitutional harm experienced by voters does not change as the candidacy of an allegedly ineligible candidate progresses from the primaries to the general election. This pronouncement does not rise to the level of hogwash.

First, the Constitution mandates that “[t]he judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution” (Article III, Section 2, Clause 1). Berg’s suit plainly “aris[es] under th[e] Constitution,” in the sense of raising a critical constitutional issue. So the only question is whether his suit is a constitutional “Case[ ].” The present judicial test for whether a litigant’s claim constitutes a constitutional “Case[ ]” comes under the rubric of “standing”—a litigant with “standing” may proceed; one without “standing” may not. “Standing,” however, is not a term found anywhere in the Constitution. Neither are the specifics of the doctrine of “standing,” as they have been elaborated in judicial decision after judicial decision, to be found there. Rather, the test for “standing” is almost entirely a judicial invention.

True enough, the test for “standing” is not as ridiculous as the judiciary’s so- called “compelling governmental interest test,” which licenses public officials to abridge individuals’ constitutional rights and thereby exercise powers the Constitution withholds from those officials, which has no basis whatsoever in the Constitution, and which is actually anti-constitutional. Neither is the doctrine of “standing” as abusive as the “immunities” judges have cut from whole cloth for public officials who violate their constitutional “Oath[s] or Affirmation[s], to support this Constitution” (Article VI, Clause 3)—in the face of the Constitution’s explicit limitation on official immunities (Article I, Section 6, Clause 1). For the Constitution does require that a litigant must present a true “Case[ ].” Yet, because the test for “standing” is largely a contrivance of all-too-fallible men and women, its specifics can be changed as easily as they were adopted, when they are found to be faulty. And they must be changed if the consequences of judicial ignorance, inertia, and inaction are not to endanger America’s constitutional form of government. Which is precisely the situation here, inasmuch as the purported “election” of Obama as President, notwithstanding his ineligibility for that office, not only will render illegitimate the Executive Branch of the General Government, but also will render impotent its Legislative Branch (as explained below).

Second, the notion upon which the judge in Berg v. Obama fastened—namely, that Berg’s “grievance remains too generalized to establish the existence of an injury in fact,” i.e., if everyone is injured or potentially injured then no one has “standing”—is absurd on its face.

christine  posted on  2008-10-29   20:59:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: christine (#103) (Edited)

Don't take this as "gospel:"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_(law)

In the common law, and under many statutes, standing or locus standi is the ability of a party to demonstrate to the court sufficient connection to and harm from the law or action challenged to support that party's participation in the case.

Edited:

There are three constitutional standing requirements:

Injury: The plaintiff must have suffered or imminently will suffer injury

Causation: There must be a causal connection between the injury and the conduct complained of, so that the injury is fairly traceable to the challenged action of the defendant and not the result of the independent action of some third party who is not before the court.

Redressability: It must be likely, as opposed to merely speculative, that a favorable court decision will redress the injury.

I don't know what exactly the meaning of "injury," but if the election of a non-"natural citizen" is not an injury to the Constitutional rights of all, then what is it?

rack42  posted on  2008-10-29   21:30:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: rack42 (#117)

if the election of a non-"natural citizen" is not an injury to the Constitutional rights of all, then what is it?

I'm not a lawyer, did not sleep at a HolInn last night, but can't resist such softballs.

Depends on whether you have a "strict" "constructionist" view of the Constitution or whether you favor more "expansive" "penumbras".

He may not be a natural, but he certainly is a functional citizen, groomed by the best schools and a short stint in a rather exclusive club in the USG.

If functionality equals naturalness, then he's home free.

swarthyguy  posted on  2008-10-30   13:34:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 197.

#201. To: swarthyguy (#197)

but can't resist such softballs.

"softballs?" "functional citizen"

"Functional Citizen" is equal to "natural citizen" via the US Constitution?

Please stop shitting on me.

rack42  posted on  2008-11-04 21:55:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 197.

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