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Title: Obama Must Stand Up Now or Step Down
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URL Source: http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin84.htm
Published: Oct 29, 2008
Author: Edwin Vieira
Post Date: 2008-10-29 13:46:02 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 4325
Comments: 201
America is facing potentially the gravest constitutional crisis in her history. Barack Obama must either stand up in a public forum and prove, with conclusive documentary evidence, that he is “a natural born Citizen” of the United States who has not renounced his American citizenship—or he must step down as the Democratic Party’s candidate for President of the United States—preferably before the election is held, and in any event before the Electoral College meets. Because, pursuant to the Constitution, only “a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of th[e] Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President” (Article II, Section 1, Clause 4). And Obama clearly was not “a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of th[e] Constitution.” Whether the evidence will show that Obama is, or is not, “a natural born Citizen” who has never renounced his American citizenship is an open question. The arguments on both sides are as yet speculative. But Obama’s stubborn refusal to provide what he claims is “his own” country with conclusive proof on that score compels the presumption that he knows, or at least strongly suspects, that no sufficient evidence in his favor exists. After all, he is not being pressed to solve a problem in quantum physics that is “above his pay grade,” but only asked to provide the public with the original copy of some official record that establishes his citizenship. The vast majority of Americans could easily do so. Why will Obama not dispel the doubts about his eligibility—unless he can not? Now that Obama’s citizenship has been seriously questioned, the burden of proof rests squarely on his shoulders. The “burden of establishing a delegation of power to the United States * * * is upon those making the claim.” Bute v. Illinois, 333 U.S. 640, 653 (1948). And if each of the General Government’s powers must be proven (not simply presumed) to exist, then every requirement that the Constitution sets for any individual’s exercise of those powers must also be proven (not simply presumed) to be fully satisfied before that individual may exercise any of those powers. The Constitution’s command that “[n]o Person except a natural born Citizen * * * shall be eligible to the Office of President” is an absolute prohibition against the exercise of each and every Presidential power by certain unqualified individuals. Actually (not simply presumptively or speculatively) being “a natural born Citizen” is the condition precedent sine qua non for avoiding this prohibition. Therefore, anyone who claims eligibility for “the Office of President” must, when credibly challenged, establish his qualifications in this regard with sufficient evidence. In disposing of the lawsuit Berg v. Obama, which squarely presents the question of Obama’s true citizenship, the presiding judge complained that Berg “would have us derail the democratic process by invalidating a candidate for whom millions of people voted and who underwent excessive vetting during what was one of the most hotly contested presidential primary in living memory.” This is exceptionally thin hogwash. A proper judicial inquiry into Obama’s eligibility for “the Office of President” will not deny his supporters a “right” to vote for him—rather, it will determine whether they have any such “right” at all. For, just as Obama’s “right” to stand for election to “the Office of President” is contingent upon his being “a natural born Citizen,” so too are the “rights” of his partisans to vote for him contingent upon whether he is even eligible for that “Office.” If Obama is ineligible, then no one can claim any “right” to vote for him. Indeed, in that case every American who does vote has a constitutional duty to vote against him.
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#52. To: Zoroaster (#40)
i've heard that more than 90% of americans do not believe the lone gun tale told by the government. not that it matters since they got away with it. so what's a little thing like citizenship matter?
Where's your birth certificate Barack ? Thanks. And I would like to see that certificate too (not that I think he has a legitimate one to show or he already would have shown it).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Yes it is very sad. Most people seem to have been able to delude themselves about their level of discomfort concerning the many atrocities that have be perpetrated by the SARCs (Self-Appointed Ruling Class). The up-coming financial crisis will likely change all that and the myopic views of reality by many, who will be directly affected, will expand to include a vast litany of sins against them by the SARCs that they have heretofore been able to ignore in favor of false comfort. The SARCs know they have blundered and are very likely scared stupid.
Dont think most of the country could give a shit, nothwithstanding the very real possibility that his mother because of her age, residence, and laws of that time renders iffy the authenticity of Barack's US born claim in a strict interpretation of the laws of that time. The laws pertinent then could well have been changed by now, so different conditions, and the technical nature make it a moot point. It shouldn't be, and he should show whatever documentation he has. As he's not, it makes you wonder, but they've made a decision to not disclose, and the polls show no consequence. His passport records ought to show the details.
LOL! I like that.
What I see you all doing is no different than before Bush's war on Iraq I was a minority then as I am a minority now and you guys are chasing ghosts if this was a big deal it would be all over the media not relegated to a few website's with a few hundred posters....it reminds me of Vince Foster affair
That could change instantaneously if it were decreed. The mass media could hound him back to Africa if the will existed in the right places. It won't because he has already been selected.
great summation
What becomes a "big deal" and what doesn't, doesn't seem to be based in logic or fact.
I do not understand what you are saying. Not letting the "2-party system" get away with this most egregious insult to the American people is not "NOTHING", it is our duty as citizens.
Imagine, A reporter found to be gay, with his own xrated graphic solicitation website, assigned to the WhiteHouse pool, enters the executive area after hours, and exits late, and seems to have extraordinary access to the inner sanctums.... Scandal? Crisis? Whatever.......
"relegated to a few website's with a few hundred posters."
Here is a little gif I would like to show Obama, McCain and all their supporters. It is truly a sad day in America when what most people have to choose from is one guy who was most likely born in Africa--if he wasn't why won't he show the vault form of his birth certificate?--and another guy who is probably a Manchurian Candidate and has never seen a military expenditure he didn't approve. They are both un-American to the core.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I'll take a money bet on this if anyone is game...trying to save you guys from making fools of yourselves which you all done a pretty job of!
??
You think what? Ha! MSM have self-identified themselves as Democrat voters so why would they report on this issue which could end up disqualifying their favorite Pres candidate?
Many of us are the same fools who took the government 9-11 tale, asked questions, and demolished it (pardon the pun). If I were to dismiss most of the material I've been listening to on alternate radio, beginning w/shortwave years ago, I'd still be an R posting on the Free Republic. IMVHO, BO is a Marxist and therefore deserves a heavy dose of scrutiny. If not here, where?
If the government's star witness in the "Day of Terror" trial released an audio tape of his discussion with his FBI handler discussing his role in organizing,planning and executing the 1993 World Trade Center bombing for the FBI was a big deal, it would be all over the media. If the government's complicity in the mass murder of 168 Americans in the Oklahoma City bombing was a big deal it would be all over the media. If two of the 9/11 hijackers were living with a highly paid FBI asset was a big deal, it would be all over the media. If George Bush, Sr. dining with Osama bin Laden's brother on 9/10/2001 was a big deal, it would be all over the media. I don't think the media does what you think it does.
While it's true that both Obama and McCain's political policies are un- American, McCain is eligible to run for the Oval office. Voters can reject McCain if they don't care for his policies. But if Obama cannot prove his natural born US citizenship, he is then ineligible to run for President. And by filling out and signing a Statement of Candidacy, FEC form 2, with incomplete false erroneous information Obama would also be subject to penalties under 2USsection437g. Obama would be violating election law. He should not be throwing his hat in the ring. He should not be violating the trust of his party or the time of the electorate or showing such blatant disrespect for the US Constitution.
And if the fact that a pineapple bomb was what did the damage to the Murrah Building rather than an ANFO bomb that would be all over the media too. Nothing to see here, run along everyone.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. duckhunter: ?? I agree with you, duckhunter. Such arrogence and condescension from robnoel is pretty amazing. Just because we'd like Obama to show his original US birth certificate to the FEC to prove his eligibility to run for the Oval Office, we are foolish??? Who is the foolish one? Who is the dupe?
Do you think Michael Chertof DHS and the INS are just sitting by and watching this pass by unchallenged if he ain't a legal citizen then what is he a green card resident....get a grip!
Think I understand why the GOP is softpedaling this. Herr Schwarznegger, will you place your hand on the bible, please?
Good post. I agree with you on both points. People have the opportunity to reject McCain if they don't like how he has voted and at least he is eligible to run. Obama may very well be ineligible and if he were eligible I don't believe he would find it so hard to produce the documentation. Hell, I had to provide a birth certificate--that is, an actual AMERICAN birth certificate--to get a passport. Surely the documents necessary to prove you are qualified to run for President are at least as strict as they are to get a passport, wouldn't you think?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. It's not quite that, is it? It's not being naturalized, which automatically disqualifies one, but the fact of his natural born status. If in US, A-OK. If not, Ineligible. Technically, according to the laws of that time, that's not strictly true, the birth mother has residency requirements to fulfill if the father was not a citizen, but why quibble. No one's questioning his citizenship. It's whether he's entitled to run based on the criteria of the constitution.
that's what i predict
My point was more a viewpoint of the extreme cynic. I don't think it matters whether Obama was born here or not. The truth is simply irrelevant as to whether these things become a "big deal" or not. The lyrics of a familiar song comes to mind; "When they own the information, the can bend it all they want."
Something tells me this would be a violation of Obama's civil rights and his affirmative action rights. The DNC may cover for Obama, saying ya know, lots of black "chillun" ain't never heard uh no dam birf certificate" plus what you sposed to do ifn you ain't entirely sho who does da daddy really be ???
Where's your birth certificate Barack ?
Herr Schwarznegger, will you place your hand on the bible, please? Perhaps. But I think it's more likely that the GOP does not want to be tar and feathered by MSM and Obamaphiles that they are "swift boating a nice black college professor candidate" thingie.
It's a funny paradox, contradiction, sad, really that as we have been inundated with the Internet Paradigm, Information yearns to be free, it may yearn and we may have access but we(editors, viewers, readers) shut out more and more of it. Unless you have an internet connection and a desire to be informed, you would end up with no more than say, 50 years ago, "news" channels notwithstanding.
i guess we can conclude that you think that Edwin Vieira (constitutional lawyer) is making a fool of himself too? i'm surprised at your attitude on this, robby.
You would probably have more material, but less substantial content, unless you watched the comedy channels too.
The producer of Colbert or Stewart attributed one reason for their success to the abysmal job the newsnets have done.
"Comedians are the only people who are allowed to tell the truth"
I am not surprised, not after he called me a freeper earlier (or said something to the effect that that is where I should be posting).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. You should know me by now I don't follow the herd or Edwin I respect him but yes I think he is causing a lot of folks to gets their panties in knot over a none issue I've looked at the documents if they fake they are very good ones....Edwin has time on his side to prove his point.....from now till Jan 20th ..... PS , the phrase "natural born Citizen" is not defined anywhere in the Constitution itself and its interpretation has never been the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
If in US, A-OK. If not, Ineligible. Technically, according to the laws of that time, that's not strictly true, the birth mother has residency requirements to fulfill if the father was not a citizen, but why quibble. No one's questioning his citizenship. It's whether he's entitled to run based on the criteria of the constitution. Bears repeating over and over again. It's not whether Obama is a US citizen. It's whether or not he is NATURAL BORN in order to be eligible to run for the Oval Office - naturalized citizens cannot run for President - natural born has very specific requirements - either Obama was born in the USA ( in Hawaii ??? and can produce his original birth certificate showing this to be true ) OR if Obama was born outside the USA/US military base was his mother eligible to pass on US citizenship to him at the time - the answer being no because she needed to reside in the USA for 5 years after age 16 and since she gave birth to Obama at age 18 she did not meet the requirement.
Do you suppose it could be defined as a bastard mulatto from Kenya ???
Where's your birth certificate Barack ?
The elevation of Mandela to Sainthood was a global media sensation, not that it was true. Most I know didn't buy the propagenda, nevertheless today he's adored everywhere, save cyberspace, where we know better. The parallels bet. him and Obongo are similar as are their politics.
Is that original or stolen????
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe Zionists in the Star Chamber made Ame4rica believe Oswald was the lone asswassin of JFK. Obama's citzenship is no problem.
#53. To: noone222 (#48)
I second your opinion.
Lord Acton
#54. To: christine, Cynicom (#34)
oh, i know they are. it's just sad and maddening for me to see so many not only falling for it, but doing their part to ensure more of it.
#55. To: christine (#0)
#56. To: James Deffenbach (#50)
The idiotlogical twins,...
#57. To: scrapper2 (#41)
#58. To: swarthyguy (#55)
it makes you wonder, but they've made a decision to not disclose, and the polls show no consequence.
#59. To: swarthyguy (#55)
It shouldn't be, and he should show whatever documentation he has. As he's not, it makes you wonder, but they've made a decision to not disclose, and the polls show no consequence.
#60. To: robnoel (#57)
if this was a big deal it would be all over the media not relegated to a few website's with a few hundred posters....
#61. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#30)
If that's the case, you should probably focus on transforming or destroying the above. I wish you good luck and I may even lend you a hand but, trust me, going after some guy's birth certificate or fighting windmills solves NOTHING.
#62. To: duckhunter (#60)
big deal
#63. To: swarthyguy, robnoel (#62)
Scandal? Crisis? Whatever.......
#64. To: eskimo (#56)
LOL! I like that.
Lord Acton
#65. To: duckhunter (#63)
#66. To: robnoel (#65)
trying to save you guys from making fools of yourselves which you all done a pretty job of!
#67. To: robnoel (#57)
if this was a big deal it would be all over the media
#68. To: robnoel (#65)
...trying to save you guys from making fools of yourselves which you all done a pretty job of!
#69. To: robnoel (#57)
(Edited)
if this was a big deal it would be all over the media
#70. To: James Deffenbach (#64)
It is truly a sad day in America when what most people have to choose from is one guy who was most likely born in Africa--if he wasn't why won't he show the vault form of his birth certificate?--and another guy who is probably a Manchurian Candidate and has never seen a military expenditure he didn't approve. They are both un-American to the core.
#71. To: honway (#69)
If the government's complicity in the mass murder of 168 Americans in the Oklahoma City bombing was a big deal it would be all over the media.
Lord Acton
#72. To: duckhunter, robnoel (#66)
robnoel: trying to save you guys from making fools of yourselves which you all done a pretty job of!
#73. To: honway (#69)
#74. To: scrapper2 (#72)
#75. To: scrapper2 (#70)
Lord Acton
#76. To: robnoel (#73)
(Edited)
a legal citizen
#77. To: swarthyguy (#74)
Herr Schwarznegger, will you place your hand on the bible, please?
#78. To: scrapper2 (#72)
Just because we'd like Obama to show his original US birth certificate to the FEC to prove his eligibility to run for the Oval Office, we are foolish??? Who is the foolish one? Who is the dupe?
#79. To: scrapper2 (#70)
And by filling out and signing a Statement of Candidacy, FEC form 2, with incomplete false erroneous information Obama would also be subject to penalties under 2USsection437g.
#80. To: swarthyguy (#74)
Think I understand why the GOP is softpedaling this.
#81. To: duckhunter (#78)
#82. To: robnoel (#65)
#83. To: swarthyguy (#81)
Unless you have an internet connection and a desire to be informed, you would end up with no more than say, 50 years ago
#84. To: duckhunter (#83)
#85. To: swarthyguy (#84)
The producer of Colbert or Stewart attributed one reason for their success to the abysmal job the newsnets have done.
#86. To: christine, robnoel (#82)
i guess we can conclude that you think that Edwin Vieira (constitutional lawyer) is making a fool of himself too? i'm surprised at your attitude on this, robby.
Lord Acton
#87. To: christine (#82)
(Edited)
#88. To: swarthyguy, All (#76)
t's not quite that, is it? It's not being naturalized, which automatically disqualifies one, but the fact of his natural born status.
#89. To: robnoel (#87)
PS , the phrase "natural born Citizen" is not defined anywhere in the Constitution itself and its interpretation has never been the subject of a U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
#90. To: robnoel (#57)
if this was a big deal it would be all over the media
#91. To: James Deffenbach (#50)
The idiotlogical twins,
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