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Religion See other Religion Articles Title: Roman Catholic Church, History of … or, why people believe what they believe. Roman Catholic Church, History of … or, why people believe what they believe. (There is another post in the religion thread that is essential to understanding this information; Simon Peter versus Simon the Sorcerer) To begin with, let me be frank; nothing that has come from the Roman Catholic church is Biblical. Period. To understand this, go here; http://www.biblebelievers.com/babylon/ This is a free online book titled, Two Babylons, and it accurately describes the source of the rituals and beliefs of the Roman Catholic church. It is worth reading, if you wish to understand. Secondly, I have had discussions, recently, in threads in the 4um from people who accused me of making things up; namely, the Roman Catholic church banned the reading of the Bible by people. In fact, one went so far as to claim that the reason that the Bible was so widely distributed was because the Roman Catholic church is the one who distributed the Bible! Hogwash and Balderdash! The Roman Catholic Church hates the Bible, and, people who dare to read the Bible because the Bible reveals all of the lies of the Roman Catholic church! Go here, please; http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/banned.htm ITEM #1 POPE INNOCENT III Pope Innocent III stated in 1199: ... to be reproved are those who translate into French the Gospels, the letters of Paul, the psalter, etc. ITEM #2 COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D. The Council of Toulouse, which met in November of 1229, about the time of the crusade against the Albigensians, set up a special ecclesiastical tribunal, or court, known as the Inquisition (Lat. inquisitio, an inquiry), Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; ITEM #3 THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D. The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that: "No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned ITEM #4 JOHN WYCLIFFE - MORNING STAR OF THE REFORMATION John Wycliffe was the very first to translate the entire Bible into English, which he completed in 1382. Wycliffe translated from the Latin Vulgate. One copy of an original manuscript is in the Bodlein Library in Oxford, England. Wycliffe's Bibles were painstakingly reproduced by hand by copyists. In 1408 the third synod of Oxford, England, banned unauthorized English translations of the Bible ITEM #5 THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH IS PRINTED William Tyndale completed a translation of the New Testament from the Greek in 1525, which church authorities in England tried their best to confiscate and burn. After issuing a revised edition in 1535, he was arrested, spent over a year in jail, and was then strangled and burned at the stake near Brussels in October 6th, 1536 ITEM #6 THE BIBLE PROHIBITED BY THE INDEX LIBRORUM PROHIBITORUM Pope Pius IV had a list of the forbidden books compiled and officially prohibited them in the Index of Trent (Index Librorum Prohibitorum) of 1559. This is an excerpt: Rule I All books which were condemned prior to 1515 by popes or ecumenical councils, and are not listed in this Index, are to stand condemned in the original fashion. Rule II Books of arch-heretics - those who after 1515 have invented or incited heresy or who have been or still are heads and leaders of heretics, such as Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Hubmaier, Schwenckfeld, and the like — whatever their name, title or argumentation — ITEM #7 POPE CLEMENT XI ON READING SCRIPTURE From UNIGENITUS, The Dogmatic Constitution issued by Pope Clement XI on Sept. 8, 1713: The following statements are condemned as being error: 79. It is useful and necessary at all times, in all places, and for every kind of person, to study and to know the spirit, the piety, and the mysteries of Sacred Scripture. 80. The reading of Sacred Scripture is for all. 81. The sacred obscurity of the Word of God is no reason for the laity to dispense themselves from reading it. 82. The Lord's Day ought to be sanctified by Christians with readings of pious works and above all of the Holy Scriptures. It is harmful for a Christian to wish to withdraw from this reading. 83. It is an illusion to persuade oneself that knowledge of the mysteries of religion should not be communicated to women by the reading of Sacred Scriptures. Not from the simplicity of women, but from the proud knowledge of men has arisen the abuse of the Scriptures and have heresies been born. 84. To snatch away from the hands of Christians the New Testament, or to hold it closed against them by taking away from them the means of understanding it, is to close for them the mouth of Christ. 85. To forbid Christians to read Sacred Scripture, especially the Gospels, is to forbid the use of light to the sons of light, and to cause them to suffer a kind of excommunication. Perhaps this is enough. You are welcome to visit the site quoted above, as there is a wealth of additional information. One thing that everyone needs to understand is that when the Roman Catholic church claims that someone, such as Luther, is a heretic, it is because they rejected at least a part of the unscriptural teachings of the Roman Catholic church. You can do your own research on this, but if you can not find anything, just let me know. Go here; http://cdelph.org/catholic.html The Roman Catholic Church -- Examined Historically and Biblically Pretty interesting, and confirms what I am going to post about the Roman Catholic church There are some Protestant denominations or groups that will try to establish a “Trail of Blood” that can be traced back through the centuries to the first century church and the apostles themselves. While these Protestants do not hold to apostolic succession in order to establish the authority of a “Pope” as an infallible leader, they still look to that connection to the early church in at least some small degree to establish the authority of their doctrines and practices. The problem with any of these attempts to trace a line of succession back to the apostles, whether it is Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant, is that they all are attempts to derive or support the authority of what they believe and teach from the wrong source, that of some real or perceived connection with the apostles, instead of deriving it from the Word of God, i.e., from the Bible. To understand this better, please read the post put up in the Religion thread; Simon Peter versus Simon the Sorcerer The above information is good, but it is not complete. Yes, the Great reformation in Christianity occurred because enough people began to understand how far from the Bible were the teachings of the Roman Catholic church; that has not changed today. But, what was the problem with the Great Reformation? Simply put, it did not go far enough in removing the evil influences brought into Christianity by the Roman Catholic church. Many of the truly un-Scriptural teachings of the Roman Catholic church remained. I have posted the following before; cdelph.org/catholic.html The Roman Catholic Church -- Examined Historically and Biblically cdelph.org/catholic.html#false FALSE DOCTRINES WHICH UNITE THE CHURCHES WITH ROME TIME OUT! Read the above sentence a couple of times and understand what it says!!; Unites the churches (of Christendom) with Rome. 2. THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY. Belief in a triune God - a God that is both one and three - is opposed to reason and the clear declaration of Scripture (Mark 12:29; 1 Corinthians 8:6). It was included in church teaching about 300 years after the death of Christ, and from Rome has found its way into the beliefs of nearly all communities of Christendom. The HOLY SPIRIT is the power of God, a divine energy by which He fills all space and creates and sustains all things: Luke 1:35, Psalm 51:12, 104:30, 139:7-12, Acts 17:27-28. The Holy Spirit is NOT A PERSON, but the "one spirit" of God used for special purposes: miracles, signs and wonders: Acts 2:1-4. MAN is a mortal creature whose consciousness utterly ceases at death, and, therefore, renewed life can come only through a bodily resurrection. Genesis 3:19, Ezekiel 18:4, Psalm 6:5, Ecclesiastes 3:18-19, 9:5-6, Isaiah 38:18-19, 1 Corinthians 15:13-21, John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:2. Let us examine a short list on non-Biblical teaching in Christendom; There is no Trinity. There is no immortal soul. There is no hell, and no hell fire and damnation. There is no Christmas. No one knows when Jesus Christ was born, and that is as it should be. http://www.xanga.com/Babylon_The_Great/554683845/item.html This is a belief that came directly from Babylon. There are no Christian holy days, as proscribed by the Roman Catholic church and the protestant churches as well, EXCEPT the one new day detailed in the Bible, which neither the Roman Catholic church nor the Protestant churches recognize. There is no Easter, except that Easter brought into Christendom by the Roman Catholic Church. Here is an interesting site especially for those who accept the dogma and tradition of the Roman Catholic church: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p2.htm CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH 232 Christians are baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"53 Before receiving the sacrament, they respond to a three-part question when asked to confess the Father, the Son and the Spirit: "I do." "The faith of all Christians rests on the Trinity." The above is the basis by which the Roman Catholic church maintains that anyone professing the trinity is a Catholic. 233 Christians are baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: not in their names,55 for there is only one God, the almighty Father, his only Son and the Holy Spirit: the Most Holy Trinity. The above is why the Roman Catholic church, and those churches which adhere to her dogmas and traditions, reject the name of God, Jehovah, and this is why the Bible of today are printed with His chosen Name. 234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, … There are no mysteries in Christianity. Christ himself said that He said nothing in secret. All has been revealed, except for the end of times, which was an admitted mystery to the Christ Jesus as well. The dogma of the Holy Trinity 253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85 Yes, that is indeed a mystery, as in the mystery religion of Babylon. It has no place in Christianity, and no place in your heart. But that is your choice to make. Jehovah God does not force Himself on anyone, but then His Promises are only for those who celebrate His Holy Name, and take in accurate knowledge of Him. John 17:3; This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. Chose wisely, please.
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#3. To: richard9151 (#0)
I'm not Roman, but this is not the case. It is absolutely not the case! The Trinity was taught by the immediate generation after the Disciples and Apostles themselves. They had to get it from somewhere and logic dictates they received it from the Apostles and Disciples. These Fathers were spread too far apart geographically and time wise to have independently "cooked" this up and created something all in such consistent agreement. Constantine and the Council of Nicaea did not create the Trinity. Two of the major reasons for the calling of the Council was the teaching of Arius that Christ was a created being and the controversy on when to hold Holy Pascha. That's a whole other issue apart from above. As a side note, please research the 1912 trial of Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Jehovah's Witness. He testified in open court he did not know Hebrew, Greek or Latin; took no coursework in it and did not have any theological or philosophical education. He admitted he based his interpretation of Sacred Scripture on his understanding of the Greek Alphabet, which by his own admission in court, was itself limited. The Jehovah's Witness still trace their interpretations of Sacred Scripture through him and I would be very cautious of this. St Dionysus of Rome; to Dionysius of Alexandria 1-3 262AD/CE "It is blasphemy, then, and not a common one but the worst, to say that the Lord in any way a handiwork. For if He came to be Son, then once He was not; but if, as He says Himself, He be IN the Father, and if, which you know the Divine Scripture says, Christ be Word and Wisdom and Power, and these attributes be powers of God, then he always existed. But if the Son came into being, there was a time when these attributes did not exist; and, consequently, there was a time when GOD was without them -- which is utterly absurd...." "Neither, then, may we divide into three godheads the wonderful and divine Unity; nor may we disparage the dignity and exceeding majesty of the Lord by calling Him a [created] work. Rather, we must believe in God, the Father Almighty; and in Christ Jesus, His Son; and in the Holy Spirit; and that the word is united to the God of the Universe. 'For,' says He, 'The Father and I are one' and 'I am in the Father, and the Father in Me.' Thus both the Divine Trinity and the sacred proclamation of the monarchy will be preserved." St Theophilus of Antioch to Autolycus, 2 181 AD/CE "The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, His Word, and His Wisdom." "And what else is this voice, but the Word of God, which also is His Son, not as poets and writers of myths tell of the sons of gods begotten of intercourse, but, as truth recounts, the Word which always exists internally in the heart of God? for before anything was created, He had this Counsellor, being His own Mind and Thought; and when God wished to create what He had decided upon, He begot this uttered Word, the First-born of all creation, not emptying Himself of the Word, but having begotten the Word, and conversing always with His Word. "This is what the Holy Scriptures teach us, as do all the inspired men, one of whom, John, says, 'In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God' [John 1:1], showing that at first God was alone, and the Word was in Him. Then he says, 'And the Word was God; all things were made through Him, and without was made nothing' [1:3]. The Word, then, being God and being generated from God, is sent to any place at the will of the Father of the universe; and when He comes, having been sent by Him and being found in place, He is both heard and seen." Tertullian, Against Praxeas St Irenaeous of Lyons [Disciple of St Polycarp who was Disciple of St John the Theologian, one of the 12], Against Heresies 4:20:1 (late 2nd Century AD/CE) St Ignatius of Antioch to the Ephesians, Disciple of St John the Theologian, one of the 12 (First Century AD/CE) "There is one Physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and not born, who is God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first able to suffer and then unable to suffer, Jesus Christ our Lord." "You are like stones for a temple of the Father, prepared for the edifice of God the Father, hoisted to the heights by the crane of Jesus Christ, which is the cross, using for a rope the Holy Spirit. Your faith is what pulls you up, and love is the road which leads you to God." "For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God's plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but Also of the Holy Spirit."
This has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. Nothing in this post comes from them; I was careful not to use that info here. The Trinity was taught by the immediate generation after the Disciples and Apostles themselves. No, it was not, except in Rome. And even if it were, that does not change a simple fact; there are no mysteries in the Bible. The Christ Jesus plainly said that he said nothing in secret, and He did not teach the Trinity. Also, if you study the Scriptures, instead of listening to men, there is no trinity in the Bible, and that includes the word trinity, which does not exist in the Bible. I cleaned myself of the trinity LONG before I met my first Jenovah's Witnesses. One of the prime reasons that I joined with them is that they understand the Bible, accept it, and know that the trinity is not a Scriptural teaching. Jesus Christ, who is called Wisdom and well as Seed and Messiah in the Old Testament, clearly states in Jeriamian that he was the first creation of Almighty God. I have posted all of this before. But none of this will make any difference to you unless you decide to do your own studies in the Bible instead of listening to men. And instead of quoting saints that were created by the Roman church.
If Christ is created, then it would stand to reason he is not equal to the Father; he is not God. Who, or what, then is Christ? Is he a god (deity), demigod, something else?
If Jesus was God, does that mean that Jesus was merely talking to himself in the Garden of Gethsemane?
#7. To: bluegrass (#6)
The Trinitarian would say Christ the Son is praying to God the Father. The Son is not the Father. One essence existing eternally, three separate persons. The Father and Son are both God.
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