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Title: Must Read: Obama advisers discuss preparations for war on Iran
Source: inteldaily.com
URL Source: http://www.inteldaily.com/?c=144&a=8641
Published: Nov 6, 2008
Author: Peter Symonds
Post Date: 2008-11-08 10:52:16 by bluegrass
Keywords: None
Views: 1867
Comments: 115

On the eve of the US elections, the New York Times cautiously pointed on Monday to the emergence of a bipartisan consensus in Washington for an aggressive new strategy towards Iran. While virtually nothing was said in the course of the election campaign, behind-the-scenes top advisers from the Obama and McCain camps have been discussing the rapid escalation of diplomatic pressure and punitive sanctions against Iran, backed by preparations for military strikes.

The article entitled “New Beltway Debate: What to do about Iran” noted with a degree of alarm: “It is a frightening notion, but it not just the trigger-happy Bush administration discussing—if only theoretically—the possibility of military action to stop Iran’s nuclear weapons program… [R]easonable people from both parties are examining the so-called military option, along with new diplomatic initiatives.”

Behind the backs of American voters, top advisers for President-elect Barack Obama have been setting the stage for a dramatic escalation of confrontation with Iran as soon as the new administration takes office. A report released in September from the Bipartisan Policy Center, a Washington-based think tank, argued that a nuclear weapons capable Iran was “strategically untenable” and detailed a robust approach, “incorporating new diplomatic, economic and military tools in an integrated fashion”.

A key member of the Center’s task force was Obama’s top Middle East adviser, Dennis Ross, who is well known for his hawkish views. He backed the US invasion of Iraq and is closely associated with neo-cons such as Paul Wolfowitz. Ross worked under Wolfowitz in the Carter and Reagan administrations before becoming the chief Middle East envoy under presidents Bush senior and Clinton. After leaving the State Department in 2000, he joined the right-wing, pro-Israel think tank—the Washington Institute for Near East Policy—and signed up as a foreign policy analyst for Fox News.

The Bipartisan Policy Center report insisted that time was short, declaring: “Tehran’s progress means that the next administration might have little time and fewer options to deal with this threat.” It rejected out-of-hand both Tehran’s claims that its nuclear programs were for peaceful purposes, and the 2007 National Intelligence Estimate by US intelligence agencies which found that Iran had ended any nuclear weapons program in 2003.

The report was critical of the Bush administration’s failure to stop Iran’s nuclear programs, but its strategy is essentially the same—limited inducements backed by harsher economic sanctions and the threat of war. Its plan for consolidating international support is likewise premised on preemptive military action against Iran. Russia, China and the European powers are all to be warned that their failure to accede to tough sanctions, including a provocative blockade on Iranian oil exports, will only increase the likelihood of war.

To underscore these warnings, the report proposed that the US would need to immediately boost its military presence in the Persian Gulf. “This should commence the first day the new president enters office, especially as the Islamic Republic and its proxies might seek to test the new administration. It would involve pre-positioning US and allied forces, deploying additional aircraft carrier battle groups and minesweepers, [and] emplacing other war materiel in the region,” it stated.

In language that closely parallels Bush’s insistence that “all options remain on the table”, the report declared: “We believe a military strike is a feasible option and must remain a last resort to retard Iran’s nuclear program.” Such a military strike “would have to target not only Iran’s nuclear infrastructure, but also its conventional military infrastructure in order to suppress an Iranian response.”

Significantly, the report was drafted by Michael Rubin, from the neo-conservative American Enterprise Institute, which was heavily involved in promoting the 2003 invasion of Iraq. A number of Obama’s senior Democratic advisers “unanimously approved” the document, including Dennis Ross, former senator Charles Robb, who co-chaired the task force, and Ashton Carter, who served as assistant secretary for defense under Clinton.

Carter and Ross also participated in writing a report for the bipartisan Center for a New American Security, published in September, which concluded that military action against Iran had to be “an element of any true option”. While Ross examined the diplomatic options in detail, Carter laid out the “military elements” that had to underpin them, including a cost/benefit analysis of a US aerial bombardment of Iran.

Other senior Obama foreign policy and defense advisers have been closely involved in these discussions. A statement entitled, “Strengthening the Partnership: How to deepen US-Israel cooperation on the Iranian nuclear challenge”, drafted in June by a Washington Institute for Near East Policy task force, recommended the next administration hold discussions with Israel over “the entire range of policy options”, including “preventative military action”. Ross was a taskforce co-convener, and top Obama advisers Anthony Lake, Susan Rice and Richard Clarke all put their names to the document.

As the New York Times noted on Monday, Obama defense adviser Richard Danzig, former navy secretary under Clinton, attended a conference on the Middle East convened in September by the same pro-Israel think tank. He told the audience that his candidate believed that a military attack on Iran was a “terrible” choice, but “it may be that in some terrible world we will have to come to grips with such a terrible choice”. Richard Clarke, who was also present, declared that Obama was of the view that “Tehran’s growing influence must be curbed and that Iran’s acquisition of a nuclear weapon is unacceptable.” While “his first inclination is not to pull the trigger,” Clarke stated, “if circumstances required the use of military force, Obama would not hesitate.”

While the New York Times article was muted and did not examine the reports too deeply, writer Carol Giacomo was clearly concerned at the parallels with the US invasion of Iraq. After pointing out that “the American public is largely unaware of this discussion,” she declared: “What makes me nervous is that’s what happened in the run-up to the Iraq war.”

Giacomo continued: “Bush administration officials drove the discussion, but the cognoscenti were complicit. The question was asked and answered in policy circles before most Americans know what was happening… As a diplomatic correspondent for Reuters in those days, I feel some responsibility for not doing more to ensure that the calamitous decision to invade Iraq was more skeptically vetted.”

The emerging consensus on Iran in US foreign policy circles again underscores the fact that the differences between Obama and McCain were purely tactical. While millions of Americans voted for the Democratic candidate believing he would end the war in Iraq and address their pressing economic needs, powerful sections of the American elite swung behind him as a better vehicle to prosecute US economic and strategic interests in the Middle East and Central Asia—including the use of military force against Iran.

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#4. To: bluegrass (#1)

It's Dr. Michael Rubin you got to watch out for this guy frooths at the mouth at any mention of Iran....this war will be different because unlike under Bush Obama will have the luxury of the "hate crimes" bill so forget about questioning the president on anything...funny when you think about it ...critize the president and be called a racist and go straight to jail...oh well!

robnoel  posted on  2008-11-08   11:35:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: a vast rightwing conspirator, Ferret Mike, aristeides, Elliot Jackalope, rubes, marks, patsies, dupes, quislings, suckers, guilters, etc., ..., all (#1)

Behind the backs of American voters, top advisers for President-elect Barack Obama have been setting the stage for a dramatic escalation of confrontation with Iran as soon as the new administration takes office.

Got Cammie Jammies?

I hate to tell you this honey, but I told you so.

Oh'Bummer is every bit as much the creature of the NWO/Bankster/Israeli Cabal that the current murderous imbecile is. Same product, new package. "The New Improved World Fascist Government".

SUCKERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

"And it's one, two, three, what are we fightin' for ..."

"What we need is meaningful change, err, spare change,
changeable meanings, err,
I mean't changed meanings ..."

"The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable man regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked and he is in no danger of being caught." ~ H. L. Mencken

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-11-08   11:44:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Ferret Mike, a vast rightwing conspirator (#0)

You're either suckers or worse, you're down with Obama and his NeoLibs.

Which is it? ; )

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   12:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: robnoel (#4)

Obama will have the luxury of the "hate crimes" bill

America: The newest Soviet state.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   12:10:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Original_Intent (#5)

Same product, new package.

Brave New World Order.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   12:11:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: bluegrass (#0)

Blah, blah, blah, the war will never happen.

Turtle's secret Indian name is Two Stuck Dogs.

Turtle  posted on  2008-11-08   12:17:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Turtle (#9)

Thus far, Team Judah has always made good on its threats.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   12:32:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: bluegrass (#10)

Thus far, Team Judah has always made good on its threats.

Clinton blew them off completely. It was Bush who fell for their nonsense.

When people fall for conpiracist nonsense, they become unable to see the truth.

Turtle's secret Indian name is Two Stuck Dogs.

Turtle  posted on  2008-11-08   12:35:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: bluegrass, roughrider, christine, Pinguinite, angle, Lady X, Cynicom, Tauzero, aristeides, wbales, Ridinshotgun, DeaconBenjamin, Horse, Ada, HOUNDDAWG, wadosy, nikki, farmfriend, Jethro Tull, Dakmar, echo5sierra, noone222, Rotara, honway (#1)

If we thought the Neocons were bad, these guys will be worse. They're a hybrid breed of the germ.

I think you have it backwards. The neocons were all former Dems. Irving Kristol, a well known socialist, calls himself the Godfather of neoconservativism.

So it was the neocons who were the hybrid breed of the germ called socialism.

scrapper2  posted on  2008-11-08   12:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Turtle (#11)

Clinton blew them off completely. It was Bush who fell for their nonsense.

Clinton made the setup, Bush made the shot. Obama's got the rebound. These guys work together and have many of us convinced they're in opposition.

When people fall for conpiracist nonsense, they become unable to see the truth.

Which is why we have a nation of blind, dumbed-down sheep. They've been buying the official conspiracist nonsense for generations.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   12:45:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: scrapper2 (#12)

I stand corrected. This is a case of the vipers coming home to roost.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   12:46:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: bluegrass (#14) (Edited)

If you have not read this self-congratulatory article by Iring Kristol previously, I'll offer you this "treat" of looking into the Godfather's smug political mind:

www.weeklystandard.com/Co.../000/000/003/000tzmlw.asp

"The Neoconservative Persuasion: What it was, and what it is" by Irving Kristol 08/25/2003, Volume 008, Issue 47

P.S. the article seems to be taking a long time to load - perhaps you can read it through other sources on the 'net

scrapper2  posted on  2008-11-08   13:00:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: bluegrass (#1) (Edited)

If we thought the Neocons were bad, these guys will be worse. They're a hybrid breed of the germ

bttt

Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

"There is no 'legitimate' Corporation by virtue of its very legal definition and purpose."
-- IndieTx

"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." © IndieTx

IndieTX  posted on  2008-11-08   13:01:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All (#15)

Here

Here's the NYT article.

New Beltway Debate: What to Do About Iran

Published: November 3, 2008

It is a frightening notion, but it is not just the trigger-happy Bush administration discussing — if only theoretically — the possibility of military action to stop Iran57;s nuclear weapons program.

Skip to next paragraph

The Board Blog

The BoardAdditional commentary, background information and other items by Times editorial writers.

Go to The Board »

Of course, no president or would-be president ever takes the military option off the table, and Barack Obama and John McCain are no exception.

What is significant is that inside Washington57;s policy circles these days — in studies, commentaries, meetings, Congressional hearings and conferences — reasonable people from both parties are seriously examining the so-called military option, along with new diplomatic initiatives.

One of the most thorough discussions is in a report by the Washington- based Bipartisan Policy Center, founded by four former senators — the Republicans Robert Dole and Howard Baker and Democrats Tom Daschle and George Mitchell — to devise policy solutions both parties might embrace.

The report warns that the next administration 60;might have little time and fewer options to deal with this threat.61; It explores such strategies as blockading Iran57;s gasoline imports, but it also says that 60;a military strike is a feasible option and must remain a last resort.61;

Its authors include Dennis Ross, top Mideast adviser to Mr. Obama, and former Senator Dan Coats, a McCain adviser.

Ashton Carter, a senior Pentagon official in the Clinton administration, wrote a paper for the Center for a New American Security, a prestigious bipartisan think tank, that asserts military action must be seen as only one component of a comprehensive strategy, 60;but it is an element of any true option.61;

At a conference in September in Virginia sponsored by the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, 60;surrogates61; for Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama insisted America must focus on preventing Iran from developing a bomb, not on allowing Iran to produce one and then deterring its use.

60;John McCain won57;t wait until after the fact,61; declared the columnist Max Boot, from the McCain team. The Arizona senator has previously said risking military action may be better than living with an Iranian nuclear weapon (and to his regret jokingly sang a song about bomb, bomb, bombing Iran).

Richard Danzig, Mr. Obama57;s surrogate, said his candidate believes a military attack on Iran is a 60;terrible61; choice, but 60;it may be that in some terrible world we will have to come to grips with such a terrible choice.61; Early in the primary campaign, Mr. Obama declared that as president he would sit down in his first year in office with — among others — Iran57;s president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. (He has been reparsing that commitment ever since.)

Given the global economic meltdown and other crises, it is not surprising if the American public is largely unaware of this discussion. What makes me nervous, is that57;s what happened in the run-up to the Iraq war.

In those days Americans were reeling from the shock of 9/11 and completely focused on hunting Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. In Washington, though, talk quickly shifted to the next target — Iraq.

Bush administration officials drove the discussion, but the cognoscenti were complicit. The question was asked and answered in policy circles before most Americans knew what was happening. Would the United States take on Saddam Hussein? Absolutely.

As a diplomatic correspondent for Reuters in those days, I feel some responsibility for not doing more to ensure that the calamitous decision to invade Iraq was more skeptically vetted.

This time the debate is not so one-sided. Most experts acknowledge that military action poses big risks and offers no guarantee of destroying Iran57;s nuclear program.

Both presidential candidates have also promised new diplomatic initiatives. Mr. McCain talks of tougher sanctions and Mr. Obama proposes a comprehensive approach involving sterner penalties, more compelling incentives and direct talks with Iran.

Mr. Ross, who was top Mideast negotiator for the first President George Bush and for President Bill Clinton, said that in the prelude to Iraq, nearly all of the talk focused on military action. He says this time experts are taking a harder, more systematic look at all options — including force — because diplomatic efforts have failed to slow Iran57;s rush to master nuclear technology.

60;I want to concentrate the mind and make people understand, 56;Look, this is serious and you don57;t want to be left with only those two choices57; 61; — war or living with an Iranian bomb, he said.

With Iran projected to produce enough fuel for a nuclear weapon by 2010, the next president is going to have to concentrate his mind quickly. We hope he, unlike George W. Bush, will encourage a broader public debate about all of America57;s options, and the high cost of another war. I will certainly be a lot more skeptical.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-11-08   13:03:04 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#5)

vast is a he. you might want to edit out that "honey." ;)

christine  posted on  2008-11-08   13:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: bluegrass, Turtle (#13)

Which is why we have a nation of blind, dumbed-down sheep. They've been buying the official conspiracist nonsense for generations.

amen. government is a group of conspirators. in Turtle's mind, everything is happenstance. no schemes, no plans, no agenda, no collaborators, no conspiracy. conspiracy has a very simple definition.

con•spir•a•cy ken-"spir-e-se noun pl con•spir•a•cies [ME conspiracie, fr. L conspirare] (14c)
1 : the act of conspiring together
2 a : an agreement among conspirators
b : a group of conspirators syn see plot

christine  posted on  2008-11-08   13:11:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: christine, Turtle (#19)

Those wacky coincidence theorists...

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   13:14:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: christine (#19)

Everybody knows FDR had no warning about Pearl Harbor & LBJ never used the Gulf of Tonkin lie to get us into V/N

Stop being a KooK!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-11-08   13:17:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: bluegrass, Cynicom (#14)

This is a case of the vipers coming home to roost.

Was it you two who wanted more info on the Auerbach name connection to the "Chief?"

Anyways here's what I ran across:

www.thenational.ae/articl...OREIGN/256780978/1014/ART

"...Mr Emanuel’s ties to the Middle East are profoundly personal. His family changed its surname in 1933 as a tribute to an uncle, Emanuel Auerbach, who was killed in a fight with Arabs in Jerusalem. His father was a member of Menachim Begin’s Irgun, the ultranationalist Jewish movement that operated between 1931-1948, battling for the creation of a Jewish state..."

scrapper2  posted on  2008-11-08   13:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: scrapper2 (#22)

I simply don't see how Rahm could be a Zionist coming from that background. I want proof!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-11-08   13:23:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: scrapper2 (#22)

There should be no doubt in any Americans mind as to who will be in charge in the Whitehouse.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-11-08   13:27:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Cynicom (#24)

Key word American.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-11-08   13:29:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Jethro Tull, christine, all (#25)

Key word American.

Intended...

I no longer consider titles such as pub/dem, lib/con as being American.

Jethro, 80,000,000 Americans did not vote for what ever reason. What a pool to draw from in an anti government movement. To hell with the programmed sheep.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-11-08   13:36:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom, all (#26)

Jethro, 80,000,000 Americans did not vote for what ever reason. What a pool to draw from in an anti government movement.

Those 80,000,000 dissatisfied people are our target. 15% would be enough to start a movement. BTW, for all the BS about turnout, I understand app. the same # of voters turned out in '08 as did '04. Anyone know if this is accurate?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-11-08   13:55:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Jethro Tull (#27)

Anyone know if this is accurate?

It is accurate on a preliminary number crunching.

It is telling that with millions more added to the population, the voter turnout was the same as four years ago.

Also Obama people registered millions more black people.

One does not have to be a genius to see that the final numbers will tell a story about this fraud of a political election, that turned out to be nothing but a race issue.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-11-08   14:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Cynicom (#28)

One does not have to be a genius to see that the final numbers will tell a story about this fraud of a political election, that turned out to be nothing but a race issue.

The Obama coalition is as follows; Blacks, Hispanics, Jews and white guilters. Actually, given this collection of misfits, our effort to reclaim America isn't as dire as I originally thought.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-11-08   14:28:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Jethro Tull, all (#29)

Just perhaps the non programmed Americans are in fact the bitter bible owning, gun toting, white trash that Obama and his worshipers are so worried about.

It perhaps the 80,000,000 that are the real silent majority.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-11-08   14:35:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Jethro Tull (#29)

I disagree about hispanics being in the coalition.

Blacks and hispanics hate each other..

Lady X  posted on  2008-11-08   14:44:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: lodwick (#3)

Crazy bastards.

Half right.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   17:01:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: bluegrass (#32)

Correct - evil bastards.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2008-11-08   17:08:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: scrapper2 (#12)

I think you have it backwards. The neocons were all former Dems. Irving Kristol, a well known socialist, calls himself the Godfather of neoconservativism.

"By calling Stalin a fascist, Trotsky and his followers could claim that "real" socialism is not a murderous ideology. They could further claim that all true threats to human dignity and freedom really come from the right. Although Trotsky himself had a rather fateful encounter with an icepick in 1940, Trotkyists today continue his fight on behalf of international social democracy. These days however, Trotskyists prefer to call themselves "neoconservatives."

Springtime for Trotsky
by Daniel McCarthy
November 6, 2001
lewrockwell.com

And they write innumerable books; being too vain and distracted for silence: seeking every one after his own elevation, and dodging his emptiness. - T. S. Eliot

Dakmar  posted on  2008-11-08   19:17:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: bluegrass (#6)

I knew Rahm Emanuel would play a key role in President Obama's Administration quite a while ago.

Obama wants someone whom he can trust his back to and this guy has the potential to be a really good chief of staff. As long as he is true to his word about ditching the hyper partisan mode of doing things.

I really like Rahm Emanuel. He is going to do a good job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHX-g1FtaMs


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-11-08   22:38:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Ferret Mike (#35)

He is going to do a good job

Yeah, a good job at fuckin' us up..

To all--my apologies for the obscene language but I was a sailor in a past life..

Lady X  posted on  2008-11-08   23:09:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Lady X (#36)

Good heavens.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-11-08   23:10:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Ferret Mike (#35)

I really like Rahm Emanuel.

As long as you like him and he makes you feel safe and loved, that's all that matters, Mike. Feelings are so very,very important. We all need feelings.

Especially when Obama goes around appointing sociopaths to his administration, someone needs some feelings.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   23:10:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Lady X (#36)

Maybe Rahm's changed? Obama's puppy might have made him be a kinder, gentler murderer.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   23:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Ferret Mike, Lady X, Cynicom, christine (#35)

Obama wants someone whom he can trust

Is this comedy night?

Ol' Rahm turned tail and fled Clinton when the going got tough.

Trust? That doesn't exist in the Oval Office.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2008-11-08   23:30:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: bluegrass (#1) (Edited)

James Woolsey also signed this NeoLib version of a PNAC doc.

If we thought the Neocons were bad, these guys will be worse. They're a hybrid breed of the germ.

The only difference between "neolibs" and "neocons" is Democrat or Republican party affiliation. Political parties may change, agendas stay the same.

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-11-08   23:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Ferret Mike (#35) (Edited)

I really like Rahm Emanuel

...a sleazy Clinton operative and son of an Irgun terrorist. Fine company Obama the "peacemaker" and "reformer" is keeping.

Out of curiosity, is there ANYTHING Obama could conceivably say or do that would lead you to drop your support for him, or will you go on making excuses for every time he backpeddles on his rhetoric and empty promises from the primaries?

Rupert_Pupkin  posted on  2008-11-08   23:35:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Rupert_Pupkin (#42)

--

Rahm Emanuel Shuts Down GOP Foley Defense

Here is a good video clip that shows this guy at work, he is a master at what he does. I had many interesting things to say during the campaign, and some of it was about this guy.

But I am not interested in doing so now in here, because the atmosphere is still to contentious and so many are still spoiling to just fight when ever and where ever they can.

So it goes. I have other things going on right now, and I don't have time for this.


"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Ferret Mike  posted on  2008-11-09   0:25:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: ferret mike (#43)

Hey Traitor, how goes things ?

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-11-09   0:29:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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