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Title: House Divided: Christian Zionism Agonizes Family Members
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URL Source: http://www.whtt.org
Published: Nov 19, 2008
Author: Charles E. Carlson
Post Date: 2008-11-19 10:32:20 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 270
Comments: 6
Charles E. Carlson Nov 18, 2008 Question posted on (whtt-christianzionism.blogspot.com) by AN (anonymous) *1 "Many friends and family members consider themselves evangelicals. They religiously watch, listen and obey corrupt TBN evangelists and Family Christian Radio pastoral talk show hosts. 'How do I reconcile my complete frustration with their refusal to see the error in their interpretation of the Bible and current events?' In Answer to AN: Your question comes up every time we speak publicly or write or hold quiet vigils in front of Judeo-Christian churches. Those who ask are also suffering the pains of separation from those they love. We must confess that every one of us has the same problem with someone we know, and if it is not our daughter or dad, we are indeed fortunate. Perhaps Christian Zionism is the biggest infection in America , ten times as common as alcoholism though from this prospective it receives little public attention. AN, your question is not how to convince your friends and relatives they are wrong, for you have already been reconciled to the difficulty of that task. Rather, you ask how to deal with your own pain and frustration. Yes, you would like to convince your family they are following a false god, but probably have had to give up persuading them in the interest of keeping a bare minimum of stilted communication. Trying to keep peace yet being stonewalled and you know it, realizing there is a permanent breach between yourself and those you love. That produces a lot of pain. I've heard this also from Phil Tourney, who happened to be co-speaker at a forum in California where my talk on Christian Zionism came first. Phil's story was familiar to me and is true. He is a wounded U.S. Navy survivor of Israel 's 1967 vicious attack on the USS Liberty, which became a deliberate cover-up by military top brass under directives from President Johnson. In case you didn't know, Israel attacked and wounded half the crew and killed over 30 of Tourney's crewmates. Tourney rose with a question, and with pain in his voice he told the entire audience about his own story of two adult daughters from whom he has been essentially estranged because he tried to tell them about his life-changing experience of four decades ago. They refuse to listen because Israel is involved. Tourney's story detailed how every one of the crew survivors was threatened by a general officer of the Navy with 'prison or worse' if he ever told anyone what really happened on the USS Liberty. For two decades, Tourney did not even tell his wife. And when he finally broke silence, as a number of his crewmembers had, his own daughters rejected him. Both, he said, had become Judeo-Christian church members and believed that Israel was ordained by God to occupy Palestine , and can do no wrong. Most Judeo-Christians are taught anyone who speaks against Israel may be damned by God... including their own father. Imagine the pain. Jim Tourney now tells the truth and many listen, but rarely a Judeo-Christian. I have heard dozens of accounts of how Christian Zionism has separated families, but Jim's story takes the prize for seperation. His children should be proud of him, but instead he is hurt that they view him an enemy of Israel and therefore and enemy of God. The agony of being a father, wife or friend, separated from those you love by Judeo-Christianity may be the most common fracture in American families today, more devastating and perhaps frequent than drugs, affairs, or alcohol, for this abuse is based on a religious belief, and therefore, leaves almost nothing left to talk about in the family breached by its curse. There are 70 million Christian Zionist, and most have Christian families and friends who are suffering and as concerned as you are. We Hold These Truths has written since 2001 about the need to change Judeo-Christians for their own sake as well as for those of us who are in Jim's and your shoes. Judeo-Christianity is anti-Christian and those who fall for it will support the gamut of every kind of practice by the Zionists who control Israel , from mass assassination, land occupation, and government sponsored abortion. Many Israelis and American Jews who can see the evil of supporting an ongoing killing machine oppose the Zionist agenda. We can recommend many anti-Zionist Jews who act like they are every bit as dedicated to their cause, not based on Jesus' words, but based on simple common sense and the undeniable rec ord of Israeli brutality. But Judeo-Christians cannot see the evil in Israel because they must not look. What they do see they justify, based on Old Testament statements of the sovereignty of God to do as He wills. They assert that it is God's will to destroy anyone in Palestine who gets in the way of Jewish Israel. So Jim Tourney's daughters reject him because they think what Israel did to those on the USS Liberty was God's will, and they think Dad should accept it! We explain why and how this movement was started, what keeps it going, and how it has, in effect, written a new 'bible' to justify its existence and Israel's acts, and how to refute its error most effectively. We have even debated with Christian Zionists, but not often. Scripture cannot support Christian Zionism and this is its Achilles Heel; they do not debate; instead, they harangue. We make the basics we have learned available on our website, and we sell a much refined DVD designed for self-presentation to audiences. *2 AN has also asked a different question. 'How do I reconcile my complete frustration with their refusal to see the error in their interpretation of the Bible and current events?' Facing Frustration a) We start with a statement of encouragement. Christian Zionism is a lie that will have its 'end time' as all lies do. The lie that led to the Crusades lasted 200 years but it did die. And this author cannot help but feel God will judge those who ignore His words. Please, do not give up on friends and family for their sake, if not your own. Theirs is an offense to God made oblivious by willful men who mislead them. The present decline in the economy may well end Christian Zionism as a force unchallenged because it will show that thousands of leaders are false prophets of prosperity. Judeo Christianity is a prosperity sect like the one Jesus opposed. Following Christ limits the time for computing wealth beyond what one needs to live. Christian Zionism is, and always has been, a lie that is unsustainable. AN, you and Jim, be patient and gentle. Your friends and families will hear the words from someone else to reinforce what you have already told them. b) We recommend you need to test your own faith to see to it that you are following Jesus Christ on the narrow path. Study the New Testament without interpretations or study guides from anyone. We suggest you read alternately one Gospel (Matthew through John) and one book of the Apostle Paul, starting with the book of Galatians. c) Look for a church to attend that does not believe and teach that the State of Israel is ordained by God. You will not find the 'warm fuzzies' that attracts millions to Christian Zionist mega-churches, but you will also not have to contend with the error of Christian Zionism. Similarly, some mainline churches are already recognizing the need to confront Judeo Christians churches based on false theology. The test is to ask the Pastor if they believe Israel is the fulfillment of Biblical prophesies. The National Council of Churches, which has 110,000 member churches, has just announced an excellent program to expose their evangelical brothers' errors about Palestine . But many of these are slumbering and may want to remain so. Keep trying to find a mainline church where you can join in and have and influence, but you best test the pastor or priest. d) Take your frustration out on the leaders of Judeo-Christian Churches by arranging quiet vigil interventions once a month at one. Jesus confronted error. Paul challenged apostasy. Project Strait Gate takes the frustration out of the equation by doing the same. See our history of over 60 interventions. *1) Anonymous Post: 'This is a fantastic blog. I am having a crisis of faith. I was raised Christian, studied Buddhism then became Agnostic. I believe in Jesus, but have been unable to find any church or congregation that will rebuke Zionist Israel and her supporters. Even my super-religious mother has called me Satan for speaking loudly against Israel 's brutal apartheid occupation. I found your website via Michael Rivero's WhatReallyHappened.com site. I am really pleased to see that I am not alone here. Many in the anti-Zionist movement are also atheists. I still believe, but that is only because I've always felt that the words of the Lord have been perverted. As a child, I was raised Seventh-Day Adventist, fire-and-brimstone Pentecostal, Jehovah's Witness and United Church of Christ. I want to find my way back to the Lord, but don't qu ite know how. I am an active anti-Zionist activist but I am missing my spirituality. I have lost many friends over my "politics" and my own family is against me. Many of these friends and family members consider themselves evangelicals. They religiously watch, listen and obey corrupt TBN evangelists and Family Christian Radio pastoral talk show hosts. How do I reconcile my complete frustration with their refusal to see the error in their interpretation of the Bible and current events? November 13, 2008 The Cause of the Conflict, Fixing the Blame, 43 minute slide show, Roots of Christian Zionism (60 minute DVD) eshop.whtt.org/eshop.php?id=22 It May Be Time To Leave Your Church whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=1692 Phill Tourney can be reached: crescentandcross.org
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#1. To: richard9151 (#0)
Jim Tourney now tells the truth and many listen, but rarely a Judeo-Christian. I have heard dozens of accounts of how Christian Zionism has separated families, but Jim's story takes the prize for seperation. His children should be proud of him, but instead he is hurt that they view him an enemy of Israel and therefore and enemy of God. I keep wondering when the surviving crewmen of the USS Liberty will find just recompense on earth, they've suffered long enough. Where, indeed, will they find a church that doesn't throw "the duty of all Christians to support Israel!!" in their face every other Sunday??
They could attend a Catholic Church. Support of Israel is never discussed.
www.reunioncommunity.org/believe.html
NO! They are ALL taught that, not most! And no, I cannot imagine the pain. But it is to be expected. Our enemies will be in our own houses. Judeo-christian. There can't be a better, more perfect example of an oxymoron.
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Titus I For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Hewbrews 8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Romans 9 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 10 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Galatians 3 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Luke 18: And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
"Don't worry about it. God will fry their asses in Hell."
Turtle's secret Indian name is Two Stuck Dogs.
Tourney's story detailed how every one of the crew survivors was threatened by a general officer of the Navy with 'prison or worse' if he ever told anyone what really happened on the USS Liberty. For two decades, Tourney did not even tell his wife. And when he finally broke silence, as a number of his crewmembers had, his own daughters rejected him. Both, he said, had become Judeo-Christian church members and believed that Israel was ordained by God to occupy Palestine , and can do no wrong. Most Judeo-Christians are taught anyone who speaks against Israel may be damned by God... including their own father. Imagine the pain.
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#2. To: X-15 (#1)
Where, indeed, will they find a church that doesn't throw "the duty of all Christians to support Israel!!" in their face every other Sunday??
#3. To: X-15 (#1)
#4. To: All (#1)
Most Judeo-Christians are taught anyone who speaks against Israel may be damned by God... including their own father. Imagine the pain.
#5. To: X-15 (#1)
#6. To: richard9151 (#0)
"Many friends and family members consider themselves evangelicals. They religiously watch, listen and obey corrupt TBN evangelists and Family Christian Radio pastoral talk show hosts. 'How do I reconcile my complete frustration with their refusal to see the error in their interpretation of the Bible and current events?'
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