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Title: Obama Citizenship Accusations Come to a Head
Source:
The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/562
Published: Dec 2, 2008
Author: Written by Kurt Williamsen
Post Date: 2008-12-02 22:57:52 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: Obama, Berg, Citizenship Scandal, Birth Certificate Fraud
Views: 4879
Comments: 225
Obama Citizenship Accusations Come to a Head Written by Kurt Williamsen Tuesday, 02 December 2008 20:54 As we have reported earlier in our article "Barack Obama and the Citizenship Scandal," it has been alleged that Barack Obama is ineligible to become president for two reasons: evidence has come forward that Obama was born in Kenya, not the United States as required by the Constitution (because only one of Obama's parents is an American); and even if he was born here, his mother relinquished his citizenship by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen. This story has gained credence, separating it from Internet rumors, because Obama has reputedly hired three law firms (firms, not lawyers) to make sure that no one gets access to his birth records in Hawaii or his college transcripts from Occidental College and Harvard. (It is speculated that the transcripts will show he applied for aid to foreign students.) Philip J. Berg, a lifelong Democrat, sued to see Obama's original birth certificate, but a court ruled that because Berg was not in some way harmed by Obama — monetarily, physically, or reputation-wise — he was not a plaintiff in good standing. This action by the court put a temporary end to the belief that we would ever know the answer to the accusations. But now the claim is flaring up again for several reasons: • Alan Keyes, a presidential candidate of the American Independent Party, and Markham Robinson, a California elector, have now sued to see Obama's birth certificate (these men would definitely have legal "standing" to sue as plaintiffs in this case). • The We the People Foundation took out a full-page ad in the Chicago Tribune about the scandal. • On Friday, December 5, the Supreme Court will have a "conference" on the question of Obama's citizenship. (If four out of the nine justices vote to hear the case, oral arguments may be scheduled.) Obama supporters have derided attempts to challenge Obama's citizenship as merely sour grapes by sore losers, and they point to the website FactChect.org, as well as a statement by Hawaii's Department of Health Director who said Obama has a legitimate birth certificate, as proof of their rightness. (Various quotes by Obama's supporters also make it clear that they don't care whether or not he was born in the United States, or whether or not the Constitution is upheld.) Those pressing the issue note that FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center and that Obama was on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. They note also that Hawaiian Health Department officials did not state that Obama has an original birth certificate from Hawaii. In fact, what Obama has given to FactCheck.org to prove his citizenship is not a birth certificate, but a certificate of live birth, something that would not ordinarily be accepted as legal proof of citizenship. Also, it is suspicious that no doctors or nurses have come forward and said that they were at Obama's birth in Hawaii, but Obama's grandmother in Kenya has been taped saying that she was at his birth in Kenya. Is Obama hiding something? Most likely yes. A person just doesn't spend something on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep one's birth records a secret unless one has something to hide. I personally have had to provide my birth certificate to several employers before they would agree to hire me. For a normal person, showing one's birth certificate is not a big deal. I've also had to give out my college records — again, not a big deal. But that leads to important questions: should this be pursued, and will it succeed? Yes, it should be pursued because to ignore it is to say that the Constitution is no longer the law of the land and is instead just an old piece of paper. Will it succeed? In my opinion, no. Neither the Supreme Court, nor the electors who will soon cast their votes for president, are impartial bodies. But that is not an argument for not pursuing it. — AP Images
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#24. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#12)
Very cute: Where's the Birth Certificate ???
Where's your birth certificate Barack ?
Try to get a passport without a birth certificate. How can anybody believe this crap? It is propaganda, probably created and refined by Karl Rove and the propaganda experts in the Republican and Democrat parties. WAKE UP!
LOL ! "Don't look at the man behind the curtain..he's important and very busy !" AmeriKa has no Preznit, only Plutocratically selected rulers. Either way, Obamalamadingdong the Commie Globalist should not be allowed by We The People to be placed on the throne. The process is phony, let's be done with it ! Show us the original !! Show us the original !! Show us the original !!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Without a Certificate of Live Birth - or a cheesy old Hawaiian cover up birth certificate such as Hawaii issued to baby Barack - the same slimey cheese which was also issued to others who were born overseas but scammed the system via Hawaii ? You were born at night, weren't you ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
That .gif is a riot. What a delightful 4 years (or less) this is going to be!
Why didn't the McCain/Palin campaign bring this issue up? Either through cluelessness or selective amnesia, some people appear to forget that McCain had citizenship issues of his own. Those issues were resolved with a non-binding Senate resolution backed by Obama and Hillary. McCain stayed away from the issue on purpose. When useful idiots begin to ignore the mindless thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.RES.511: Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. (Agreed to by Senate) SRES 511 ATS 110th CONGRESS 2d Session S. RES. 511 Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES April 10, 2008 Mrs. MCCASKILL (for herself, Mr. LEAHY, Mr. OBAMA, Mr. COBURN, Mrs. CLINTON, and Mr. WEBB) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary April 24, 2008 Reported by Mr. LEAHY, without amendment April 30, 2008 Considered and agreed to RESOLUTION Recognizing that John Sidney McCain, III, is a natural born citizen. Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a `natural born Citizen' of the United States; Whereas the term `natural born Citizen', as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States; Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to Americans serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country's President; Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the `natural born Citizen' clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress's own statute defining the term `natural born Citizen'; Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders; Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.
This brings up a question: Why can't Obama just get a similar resolution passed?
I've been sifting through your posts to judge the depth of your Ostooper. You're a winner, don't let anyone tell you any different: #16. To: farmfriend (#13) His mother was a full citizen. And until/unless she tossed it out the window she is still a citizen, no matter where she lives or who she marries. He was born in Hawaii. Wake up, this is a way of distracting voters and more often than not it is done by the Unification Church leadership. Remember the BS about him going to a Wahhabi school that was supposedly claimed by Clinton? It was in fact the Unification Church leadership that started that rumor. It began in Insight Magazine which is owned by Moon and the Unification Church. It's time people quit buying into all the BS so we can finally start to judge and make accurate decisions about politicians based on facts and truth. I'm tired of reading all the crap. It's gotten so bad I'm considering not voting this year. bush_is_a_moonie posted on 2008-08-23 2:03:05 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Wow, the messiah must be angry with you, peon. Up to this point you judged Obamalamadingdong to be your saviour ! Good work half brain.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Obama Birth Certificate: Who Determines Presidential Eligibility?
I wonder why they didn't get a two-fer in the same bill. Hmmm.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
news.aol.com/political-ma...rth-certificate-doubters/ Q&A With Obama Birth Certificate Doubters By Liza Porteus Viana Dec 2nd 2008 12:31PM Filed Under:eBarack Obama, 2008 President We here at the Machine told you yesterday that the controversy over Barack Obama's birth certificate is still raging. The latest is that the We The People Foundation have taken out a full-page ad in the Chicago Tribune two days this week - Monday (yesterday) and Wednesday. I e-mailed Bob Schulz, chairman of the foundation, to ask him a few questions about why his group and some other right-wing blogs and individuals still aren't convinced of the authenticity of the Hawaii birth certificate provided by the president-elect, and vouched for by Hawaii officials. Here's the Q&A: Q.) Why don't you believe that the Hawaiian authorities have vouched for the authenticity of the birth certificate filed with that state for President-elect Obama? The state's Department of Health director on Oct. 31 released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate. DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate. A.) Yes, Hawaii officials have publicly verified that they possess Obama's original birth certificate, however in their official press release they fail to state it is an original birth certificate from Hawaii. In fact, under Hawaiian law, a foreign born child can be registered as a naturalized (but not "natural born") U.S. citizen following application of the parents, (See, Hawaiian law provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. ). Such persons would be eligible to receive a "Certification of Live Birth" from the state, such as the document Obama has proffered. "Naturalized" citizens, such as the Governor of California, cannot hold the office of President. This of course, does not resolve the thornier issue as to the content of Obama's birth document. Specifically the stated "place of birth" may not in fact reflect the physical location of Obama's birth (as evidenced by the "original" certificate of Live Birth claimed to be in the possession of Hawaii officials), but rather the local Hawaii residency of the U.S. parent claimed in a birth registration application such as that provided by HRS 338-17.8 (See above). In any event the document is simply a computer-created document based upon the entries in a computer database, which may have been conceivably tampered with at some point. Hawaii law also provides for "amending" birth certificates. From the official web page: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country." In short, the document proffered by Obama does not contain all the information needed to conclusively verify that he is legally eligible to hold the Office of President. Additionally, beyond their refusal to minimally confirm that Obama was born in Hawaii, state officials also refuse to comment on the authenticity of Obama's birth document. All these questions could be resolved by Obama by simply providing access to his original birth certificate. Q.) What reputable sources have discredited the birth certificate already produced by Obama? A.) Attorney Phil Berg states in his lawsuit against Obama, "...three (3) independent Document Forensic Experts performed extensive Forensic testing on the Certificate of Live Birth posted on Obama's campaign website." He has not publicly identified his sources but one of them is reported to be a reputable professional forensics expert going under the pseudonym "Polarik" for his family's protection. His latest comprehensive report concluding Obama's document is a forgery can be found here. He has also posted a short YouTube video. Q.) How much did you pay for these 2 full-page ads (on Dec. 1 and 3)? A.) Tens of thousands of dollars. It was a negotiated amount. Q.) What sort of reaction have you received so far to the ads? A.) We have experienced significant media interest from primarily talk shows and newspapers, including some well-known media entities. We have hoped that our ads would spur public debate on this topic and hopefully, this may have begun. In the end, there is no practical reason why Obama refuses to produce his original birth certificate. He is seeking the Office of President and has a duty to provide evidence that he meets the explicit requirements established by the Constitution.
This of course, does not resolve the thornier issue as to the content of Obama's birth document. Specifically the stated "place of birth" may not in fact reflect the physical location of Obama's birth (as evidenced by the "original" certificate of Live Birth claimed to be in the possession of Hawaii officials), but rather the local Hawaii residency of the U.S. parent claimed in a birth registration application such as that provided by HRS 338-17.8 (See above). In any event the document is simply a computer-created document based upon the entries in a computer database, which may have been conceivably tampered with at some point. Hawaii law also provides for "amending" birth certificates. From the official web page: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country." In short, the document proffered by Obama does not contain all the information needed to conclusively verify that he is legally eligible to hold the Office of President. Mr. Half Brain Opile, Do we need to get out the crayons ? Are you going to cry if messiah is deported ?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
In his ad, Berg presents four exhibits on which he bases his case: (1) claims that Obama’s paternal Kenyan grandmother is on record as saying she was present when the president-elect was born in that African country; (2) an original birth certificate has never been produced for review and “experts” have called the online image a “forgery”; (3) Obama may still hold Indonesian citizenship since, as a child, he attended school in that country where laws would not allow non-citizen children to attend and also forbade dual citizenship; (4) Obama’s mother was too young to meet the residency requirements of U.S. law which would have enabled her to declare her son a “natural born citizen.”
“In case Senator Obama cannot present proper documentation, he cannot be elected President and SOS has a duty to bar the casting of votes by California electors in support of his candidacy,” the document continues, adding that more than a dozen other legal actions have been filed across the country. “Should Senator Obama be discovered, after he takes office, to be ineligible for the Office of President, and, thereby, his election declared void, Petitioners, as well as other Americans, will suffer irreparable harm in that an usurper [sic] will be sitting as President, and none of the treaties, laws or executive orders signed by him will be valid or legal.”
How dare you try and stop the ascension of the selection by using the law !!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
This is one of the most important issues that make up the foundation of our government, flawed as it currently is. If Obummer were a decent, ethical human being, he would have gone out of his way to PROVE his eligibility at the first question of his citizenship. His reluctance shows how greedy he is to obtain the Presidency. I demand a full accounting of his background and demand that ALL questions about his life be answered.
“change you can believe in.”
The laws were taken to the pond and drowned decades ago. Of course, we HAVE to obey or else ! Feh
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
While America was under attack, for approximately the next seven (7) to eighteen (18) minutes Defendant GWB continues to listen to the goat story while Plaintiff's husband was just murdered and does not immediately assume his duties as Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces. what about berg's 911 lawsuit was wacky?
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. [deleted by request of the poster]
Haaaaahahahahaha! Your selected boy is nothing but a Johnson slurping ACORN fraud. DEAL
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
By the way, I'm taking bus driving lessons. Can't wait to introduce myself, pig boy.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Sir, you're way out of line here.. I've, to my regret, flamed out here before but I have never seen anything like this..
Mike, is there a particular reason that you're ignoring this question? : Mike, the reality is that as he hasn't released his birth certificate, there's no evidence that he was born in Hawaii. He's spent almost a million bucks to keep his birth certificate out of the conversation. If Bush had spent a million bucks to keep any of his documents out of the public eye, would you be defending his actions as vigorously as you do Obama's?
I've, to my regret, flamed out here before but I have never seen anything like this.. I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
[post deleted by request of poster]
No thanks. Hope ya feel better.
Yes, reading this fowl language is just plain degrading for all.
DEPORT OBAMALAMADINGDONG ! The Witch is Almost Dead !!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I have not..
Thank you. My point is simple; this place has become a Lynch mob where one side is out to browbeat anyone that disagrees with the majority here into submission and silence. Tara here even has done death threats. I am in forums to discuss and engage in lively discussion where after the disagreement, people still respect another's right to their point of view and humanity. I am not here because to engage with intolerent and cruel people with narrow minds. The mission statement of this forum has been made a farce by those who promote a FReeper mindset of intolerance, cruelty and intimidation. This place was unfortunately become a waste of time, it is choir for one side of a mindset of opinions only.
You are correct. Within one year Obama will be sifted and weighed for his executive acumen as POTUS, the proof will be evident to all whether America chose wisely or not.
Believe it or not, Truth really exists. I'm not sure anyone can recognize it in an atmosphere of subterfuge, controlled media, brainwashing/psychological manipulation, and treason. But I do know one thing. There are people on the 4um who recognize the one Truth: Liberty. They also recognize it has been lost.. which changes the rules of the game. The strategy now must be to regain those Liberties or forever give them up for lost. There can be few differences of opinion on this goal, other than how best to achieve it. You have a choice. Rather than defect, I hope you stay. May Peace be with you.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP But I do know one thing. There are people on the 4um who recognize the one Truth: Liberty. They also recognize it has been lost.. which changes the rules of the game. The strategy now must be to regain those Liberties or forever give them up for lost. There can be few differences of opinion on this goal, other than how best to achieve it. In this regard, the diversity of opinion that you laud and extol is too often an opinion diametrically opposed to the very existence of the fact that Liberty has been infringed at all. And in the cold cruel face of reality and the gravity of the situation with which we are faced, such thoughts, which are considered opposed to the new goal of regaining our lost Liberty, are not allies. This has now become a war of words. And everything and everyone who opposes Liberty is fair game for verbal assault. You have a choice. You can stay on the right side (there is one) and try to help us find solutions. You can leave believing that no Liberty is lost, and all is well, and that we here at 4um are the problem, and leave to become a bewildered casualty of the totalitarian war that has already been waged against everything that we know is moral and just. Liberty is in the ICU. Rather than defect, I hope you stay. May Peace be with you. that was so well said, Indie. your words articulate my sentiments exactly. thank you.
There is no morality in war. Morality is the privilege of those judging from the distance. War is only death and destruction.--John Cory
I missed the death threats but I have seen the name calling etc. Not appropriate behavior in my book. I've said as much to him both publicly and privately. Bad behavior is bad behavior. That is how it should be. Everyone should have the attitude of "I disagree with what you say but I defend your right to say it". It is difficult to be the odd man out. Hard to take the oppsite view in the enemie's camp. I hate to see those on my side of the battle act intolerant and obnoxious. I've always tried to answer to the argument rather than get personal although I've recently broken my own rule and verbally slapped someone on another forum. Everyone should police their own behavior and point out behavior that steps over the line regardless of who does it.
May Peace be with you. Having other things to do at the first of the month, I've not been here much today, but that was an outstanding reply to whomever.
Yes. assuming he takes office, history is always the better judge. It will be interesting to see where Bush ends up.
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#25. To: noone222 (#24)
#26. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#21)
#27. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#17)
Why? Look at how this is distracting from the important issues and causing division between people and groups? They know what they are doing... it's called propaganda used to confuse the masses.
#28. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#25)
#29. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#25)
(Edited)
Try to get a passport without a birth certificate. How can anybody believe this crap? It is propaganda, probably created and refined by Karl Rove and the propaganda experts in the Republican and Democrat parties. WAKE UP!
#30. To: TwentyTwelve, Wacky Wiccans (#26)
#31. To: bush_is_a_moonie, Ferret MIke, christine, Lady X (#12)
Why didn't the RNC bring this issue up? They were trying to find anything they could to discredit Obama.
Coke/Pepsi Democrat/Republican marketing campaigns, we might get a piece of America back.
#32. To: bush_is_a_moonie, Ferret MIke, christine, Lady X (#31)
#33. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#25)
(Edited)
WAKE UP!
(LOL !! Haaaaaaaahahahahaha! From an Opile nonetheless !)
#34. To: bluegrass, Horse, christine (#32)
#35. To: bluegrass (#31)
#36. To: bluegrass (#31)
Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a `natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.
#37. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)
"Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool."
#38. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#25)
#39. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#38)
In fact, under Hawaiian law, a foreign born child can be registered as a naturalized (but not "natural born") U.S. citizen following application of the parents, (See, Hawaiian law provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. ). Such persons would be eligible to receive a "Certification of Live Birth" from the state, such as the document Obama has proffered. "Naturalized" citizens, such as the Governor of California, cannot hold the office of President.
#40. To: Rotara, bush_is_a_moonie (#39)
In short, the document proffered by Obama does not contain all the information needed to conclusively verify that he is legally eligible to hold the Office of President.
#41. To: Rotara, bush_is_a_moonie (#39)
In short, the document proffered by Obama does not contain all the information needed to conclusively verify that he is legally eligible to hold the Office of President.
#42. To: TwentyTwelve (#40)
In his ad, Berg presents four exhibits on which he bases his case: (1) claims that Obama’s paternal Kenyan grandmother is on record as saying she was present when the president-elect was born in that African country; (2) an original birth certificate has never been produced for review and “experts” have called the online image a “forgery”; (3) Obama may still hold Indonesian citizenship since, as a child, he attended school in that country where laws would not allow non-citizen children to attend and also forbade dual citizenship; (4) Obama’s mother was too young to meet the residency requirements of U.S. law which would have enabled her to declare her son a “natural born citizen.”
#43. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#25)
How can anybody believe this crap?
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#44. To: Rotara (#42)
How dare you try and stop the ascension of the selection by using the law !!
#45. To: TwentyTwelve (#44)
“change you can believe in.”
#46. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#12)
Berg said: “The events surrounding "911" to date have yet to be uncovered.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#47. To: Rotara (#39)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#48. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
#49. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
The bitch should be grudge fucked with a baseball bat for being responsible for you.
#50. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
#51. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
#52. To: Lady X (#50)
Sir, you're way out of line here..
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
#53. To: bluegrass (#51)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#54. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
#55. To: farmfriend (#52)
Sir, you're way out of line here...... I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
#56. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
#57. To: farmfriend (#52)
I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
#58. To: farmfriend (#52)
(Edited)
"I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word."
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#59. To: farmfriend (#52)
I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#60. To: Ferret Mike, ALL, christine, farmfriend, x-15, lodwick, jethro tull, cynicom, rotara, original_intent, noone222 (#58)
(Edited)
This place has become.....blah blah
In this regard, the diversity of opinion that you laud and extol is too often an opinion diametrically opposed to the very existence of the fact that Liberty has been infringed at all.
And in the cold cruel face of reality and the gravity of the situation with which we are faced, such thoughts, which are considered opposed to the new goal of regaining our lost Liberty, are not allies. This has now become a war of words. And everything and everyone who opposes Liberty is fair game for verbal assault.
You can stay on the right side (there is one) and try to help us find solutions.
You can leave believing that no Liberty is lost, and all is well, and that we here at 4um are the problem, and leave to become a bewildered casualty of the totalitarian war that has already been waged against everything that we know is moral and just. Liberty is in the ICU. 
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#61. To: IndieTX, Ferret Mike, ALL (#60)
Believe it or not, Truth really exists. I'm not sure anyone can recognize it in an atmosphere of subterfuge, controlled media, brainwashing/psychological manipulation, and treason.
#62. To: Ferret Mike, Lady X, rotara, christine (#58)
(Edited)
Tara here even has done death threats.
I am in forums to discuss and engage in lively discussion where after the disagreement, people still respect another's right to their point of view and humanity.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
#63. To: IndieTX (#60)
Rather than defect, I hope you stay.
#64. To: X-15 (#59)
Within one year Obama will be sifted and weighed for his executive acumen as POTUS, the proof will be evident to all whether America chose wisely or not.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
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