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Title: Obama Citizenship Accusations Come to a Head
Source:
The New American
URL Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/election/562
Published: Dec 2, 2008
Author: Written by Kurt Williamsen
Post Date: 2008-12-02 22:57:52 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: Obama, Berg, Citizenship Scandal, Birth Certificate Fraud
Views: 4776
Comments: 225
Obama Citizenship Accusations Come to a Head Written by Kurt Williamsen Tuesday, 02 December 2008 20:54 As we have reported earlier in our article "Barack Obama and the Citizenship Scandal," it has been alleged that Barack Obama is ineligible to become president for two reasons: evidence has come forward that Obama was born in Kenya, not the United States as required by the Constitution (because only one of Obama's parents is an American); and even if he was born here, his mother relinquished his citizenship by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen. This story has gained credence, separating it from Internet rumors, because Obama has reputedly hired three law firms (firms, not lawyers) to make sure that no one gets access to his birth records in Hawaii or his college transcripts from Occidental College and Harvard. (It is speculated that the transcripts will show he applied for aid to foreign students.) Philip J. Berg, a lifelong Democrat, sued to see Obama's original birth certificate, but a court ruled that because Berg was not in some way harmed by Obama — monetarily, physically, or reputation-wise — he was not a plaintiff in good standing. This action by the court put a temporary end to the belief that we would ever know the answer to the accusations. But now the claim is flaring up again for several reasons: • Alan Keyes, a presidential candidate of the American Independent Party, and Markham Robinson, a California elector, have now sued to see Obama's birth certificate (these men would definitely have legal "standing" to sue as plaintiffs in this case). • The We the People Foundation took out a full-page ad in the Chicago Tribune about the scandal. • On Friday, December 5, the Supreme Court will have a "conference" on the question of Obama's citizenship. (If four out of the nine justices vote to hear the case, oral arguments may be scheduled.) Obama supporters have derided attempts to challenge Obama's citizenship as merely sour grapes by sore losers, and they point to the website FactChect.org, as well as a statement by Hawaii's Department of Health Director who said Obama has a legitimate birth certificate, as proof of their rightness. (Various quotes by Obama's supporters also make it clear that they don't care whether or not he was born in the United States, or whether or not the Constitution is upheld.) Those pressing the issue note that FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center and that Obama was on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. They note also that Hawaiian Health Department officials did not state that Obama has an original birth certificate from Hawaii. In fact, what Obama has given to FactCheck.org to prove his citizenship is not a birth certificate, but a certificate of live birth, something that would not ordinarily be accepted as legal proof of citizenship. Also, it is suspicious that no doctors or nurses have come forward and said that they were at Obama's birth in Hawaii, but Obama's grandmother in Kenya has been taped saying that she was at his birth in Kenya. Is Obama hiding something? Most likely yes. A person just doesn't spend something on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep one's birth records a secret unless one has something to hide. I personally have had to provide my birth certificate to several employers before they would agree to hire me. For a normal person, showing one's birth certificate is not a big deal. I've also had to give out my college records — again, not a big deal. But that leads to important questions: should this be pursued, and will it succeed? Yes, it should be pursued because to ignore it is to say that the Constitution is no longer the law of the land and is instead just an old piece of paper. Will it succeed? In my opinion, no. Neither the Supreme Court, nor the electors who will soon cast their votes for president, are impartial bodies. But that is not an argument for not pursuing it. — AP Images
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#50. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
Sir, you're way out of line here.. I've, to my regret, flamed out here before but I have never seen anything like this..
Mike, is there a particular reason that you're ignoring this question? : Mike, the reality is that as he hasn't released his birth certificate, there's no evidence that he was born in Hawaii. He's spent almost a million bucks to keep his birth certificate out of the conversation. If Bush had spent a million bucks to keep any of his documents out of the public eye, would you be defending his actions as vigorously as you do Obama's?
I've, to my regret, flamed out here before but I have never seen anything like this.. I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
[post deleted by request of poster]
No thanks. Hope ya feel better.
Yes, reading this fowl language is just plain degrading for all.
DEPORT OBAMALAMADINGDONG ! The Witch is Almost Dead !!
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
I have not..
Thank you. My point is simple; this place has become a Lynch mob where one side is out to browbeat anyone that disagrees with the majority here into submission and silence. Tara here even has done death threats. I am in forums to discuss and engage in lively discussion where after the disagreement, people still respect another's right to their point of view and humanity. I am not here because to engage with intolerent and cruel people with narrow minds. The mission statement of this forum has been made a farce by those who promote a FReeper mindset of intolerance, cruelty and intimidation. This place was unfortunately become a waste of time, it is choir for one side of a mindset of opinions only.
You are correct. Within one year Obama will be sifted and weighed for his executive acumen as POTUS, the proof will be evident to all whether America chose wisely or not.
Believe it or not, Truth really exists. I'm not sure anyone can recognize it in an atmosphere of subterfuge, controlled media, brainwashing/psychological manipulation, and treason. But I do know one thing. There are people on the 4um who recognize the one Truth: Liberty. They also recognize it has been lost.. which changes the rules of the game. The strategy now must be to regain those Liberties or forever give them up for lost. There can be few differences of opinion on this goal, other than how best to achieve it. You have a choice. Rather than defect, I hope you stay. May Peace be with you.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP But I do know one thing. There are people on the 4um who recognize the one Truth: Liberty. They also recognize it has been lost.. which changes the rules of the game. The strategy now must be to regain those Liberties or forever give them up for lost. There can be few differences of opinion on this goal, other than how best to achieve it. In this regard, the diversity of opinion that you laud and extol is too often an opinion diametrically opposed to the very existence of the fact that Liberty has been infringed at all. And in the cold cruel face of reality and the gravity of the situation with which we are faced, such thoughts, which are considered opposed to the new goal of regaining our lost Liberty, are not allies. This has now become a war of words. And everything and everyone who opposes Liberty is fair game for verbal assault. You have a choice. You can stay on the right side (there is one) and try to help us find solutions. You can leave believing that no Liberty is lost, and all is well, and that we here at 4um are the problem, and leave to become a bewildered casualty of the totalitarian war that has already been waged against everything that we know is moral and just. Liberty is in the ICU. Rather than defect, I hope you stay. May Peace be with you. that was so well said, Indie. your words articulate my sentiments exactly. thank you.
There is no morality in war. Morality is the privilege of those judging from the distance. War is only death and destruction.--John Cory
I missed the death threats but I have seen the name calling etc. Not appropriate behavior in my book. I've said as much to him both publicly and privately. Bad behavior is bad behavior. That is how it should be. Everyone should have the attitude of "I disagree with what you say but I defend your right to say it". It is difficult to be the odd man out. Hard to take the oppsite view in the enemie's camp. I hate to see those on my side of the battle act intolerant and obnoxious. I've always tried to answer to the argument rather than get personal although I've recently broken my own rule and verbally slapped someone on another forum. Everyone should police their own behavior and point out behavior that steps over the line regardless of who does it.
May Peace be with you. Having other things to do at the first of the month, I've not been here much today, but that was an outstanding reply to whomever.
Yes. assuming he takes office, history is always the better judge. It will be interesting to see where Bush ends up.
Listen, you have an arrogance here that has Tara doing soliloquies about how he has tried to bring people around to his point of view, and because they would not listen, they deserve that they get. This sort of belittling, browbeating and arrogance is very much designed to end discussion, not promote it. I also am sure the classic FReeper tactic of organizing behind the scenes to pour complaints to the forum administration about opponents is in play here as well. People are doing here what they learned to do in FReeperland. I have been around a long time and seen all these tactics and I an hip to them. I am here because I like debate and lively talk. But I am no whips and chains groupie that goes places where there is a 'mercy is for the weak' attitude in play where all opposition must absolutely be silenced or else. I am patient, but to a point. There is no will here to make this forum work. A critical mass has been reached of one side where it is useless to debate or discuss if moderators don't enforce a level playing field. Your exploration is to the wrong man. Send it to he or she who referees things here. Only they can decide whether things will work or not. I see an awful lot of people telling me I don't understand the U.S. Constitution and only they do. I am here to tell you that the Constitution is there to protect minority positions and groups from the whims and caprice of majorities they are not part of. For example, freedom of religion is there because of the tendency for majority religions to push to scorch the earth of the lives of those who do not comply by joining up. People who are ruthless and intolerant of another's position saying they are doing so because those who say defend Barack Obama don't understand the Constitution themselves show a core lack of comprehension how that document works and why it is supposed to do so that way. When you see the argument's cognitive shift move to where you see a Tara calling for the deportation of a U.S. citizen because his guilty before innocent mindset is not getting the high profile nationally he wants, there is something wrong with a forum. I know exactly what is wrong here and why, and me merely staying and watching it get worse is not a useful and constructive thing to do.
you're wrong about that, Mike. not only is there no organization, but there hasn't been one person who has complained to me about your presence here or who has requested that you be banned. in fact, any communication that i have received in private regarding you has been supportive of your right to speak and share your points of view. this has also been expressed to you publicly by a number of members as well. this you should know. each person here is responsible for their own words. as the forum owner, i do not and will not try to steer the direction of conversation, topics of discussion or opinions of the whole forum.
There is no morality in war. Morality is the privilege of those judging from the distance. War is only death and destruction.--John Cory
Mike, I daresay that 4um is more tolerant of differing points-of-view than DU or the ACLU forums.
I am not speaking about me. I was talking about sign I've seen of that happening to others. No matter, as I said, the U.S. Constitution is there to provide checks and balances. I see none here. The Constitution is there to protect unpopular few of any group against the mindset, opinions and world view of the majority. Before you whine about your issue on a birth certificate that has gone from theory to lynch mob absolute status that this is gospel truth being a worthy crusade, step back from the bark of the tree it is and look at the entire forest. Barack Obama, even if this were true cannot and should not be deported, yet nobody corrects this as a lynch mob attitude on the issue exists here. I see President-elect Obama as having a very savvy understanding of the dynamics of lynch mob Swift Boating, and I full concur with the treating of this tempest in a teapot with the disdain it deserves. He and his team know there is no meat to this issue, and it is not requisite for them to educate those who just want to destroy him primarily for quite a different set of reasons and to serve the agenda of a different sort of political POV then that he represents. There is no separation here of opinion from the people expressing the thought, if you don't join the crusade, you are shit and deserve what you get. That is the mindset in here. And you show you are so sure of yourself, you have no intention of protecting anyone feeling differently then you. Have fun, as for myself I just as soon fain not be part of this confederacy of dunces partaking in this Lynch scene. It's been fun. But that was then, and this is now. Take care.
LOL You world utopian boot licking white guilter de constructionist Commies are all the same. Drop dead already.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
If so, what better way to make his opponents look like fools than by proving them wrong? If I were in his position, I would dig up my birth certificate and laugh in the faces of what you call a "lynch mob," and so would you. The fact that he hasn't implies that he does have something to hide.
Listen, you have an arrogance here that has Tara doing soliloquies about how he has tried to bring people around to his point of view, and because they would not listen, they deserve that they get. My arrogance? Because I excercise my freedom to speak? Is that now arrogant??!! You said I made Tara do what? Liar. This sort of belittling, browbeating and arrogance is very much designed to end discussion, not promote it. There is neither a duty or any intelligent reason (or law..YET) to promote equal discussion of ideas ..even when diametrically opposed to Liberty. Did you even read my post? Ahhh..it was beyond your IQ...I understand. I also am sure the classic FReeper tactic of organizing behind the scenes to pour complaints to the forum administration about opponents is in play here as well. People are doing here what they learned to do in FReeperland. I have been around a long time and seen all these tactics and I an hip to them. You know damn well you have no fear of being banned here as you insinuate, and that Christine would never condone it. I am here because I like debate and lively talk. But I am no whips and chains groupie that goes places where there is a 'mercy is for the weak' attitude in play where all opposition must absolutely be silenced or else. You do like debate? Then why do you whine? You have a choice. Did you read my post? And I said nothing about silencing you in my post. What I did say was that the voices of reason who stand against you need not be silenced because free speech means just that. I also said voices diametrically opposed to Liberty are fair game for free speech and verbal attack because this is a war of words to reclaim Liberties lost. If you take issue with that, then you are on the wrong side in this struggle. You are no allie. And noone here has to treat you like an allie. It's called the 1st Amendment. You just can't handle it, commie. I am patient, but to a point. There is no will here to make this forum work. A critical mass has been reached of one side where it is useless to debate or discuss if moderators don't enforce a level playing field. There is no such thing as a level playing field except that which exists in the imagination of communists like yourself and Stalin. There is also no duty or responsibility to "make this forum work" because..it already does by virtue of free speech!! Your exploration is to the wrong man. Send it to he or she who referees things here. Only they can decide whether things will work or not. Ahh so we need a referee to make sure you win your arguments. You know damn well you have the ability to argue your case. Your problem is the inability to defend your communist ideals under the light of truth. I see an awful lot of people telling me I don't understand the U.S. Constitution and only they do. I am here to tell you that the Constitution is there to protect minority positions and groups from the whims and caprice of majorities theey are not part of. I am speechless. Totally speechless. For example, freedom of religion is there because of the tendency for majority religions to push to scorch the earth of the lives of those who do not comply by joining up. People who are ruthless and intolerant of another's position saying they are doing so because those who say defend Barack Obama don't understand the Constitution themselves show a core lack of comprehension how that document works and why it is supposed to do so that way. You segue from "religious freedom" to an argument that people have said that your vote for Obama means you do not understand the Constitution? No, I think it's actually worse than you suspect. But those who can read and understand know what I mean. When you see the argument's cognitive shift move to where you see a Tara calling for the deportation of a U.S. citizen because his guilty before innocent mindset is not getting the high profile nationally he wants, there is something wrong with a forum. Well, I never saw any such post. So I can not comment on it. I can assume it was poetic license to score debate points. Regardless, no such law exists to deport you for your beliefs, so that person can say whatever they want without you having to fear it will take place. There IS the bozo feature, remember? I know exactly what is wrong here and why, and me merely staying and watching it get worse is not a useful and constructive thing to do. I digress to my original post and refuse to even respond to the rest. Yeah, my original post.. the one you did not comprehend, but yet somehow addressed. What IS it that you really want Ferret? You have an equal opportunity to speak. You just want to win, even if it means silencing US with a "referee"!! (Hypocrite leftist attitude) Like all leftists, what you want is not equal opportunity, but preferential treatment, where no such right or duty to give it exists. All of your complaints are strawmen. The name of this forum is FREEDOM 4um. You have no love of Freedom, nor do you wish it restored. I will fight you and yours with every word I can muster, now that you have reinforced your true colors.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP Documents nonsense aside, was Obama's mother also not American born? I think not. Then no matter where he was born, is he not just as American as John McCain who was born in Panama?
Mike, you're living proof the political left isn't worth the powder to blow them to hell. I told you a month ago you'd flame out and bolt when Obingo began to assemble his cabinet - that collection of Klinton freaks that they are. And guess what? I was right. You are NTBT. You never were.
Good sentiments. Now try lighting a cigarette. Freedom of Association, Assembly, Right to Gather among like minded people....... Yes, filthy, unhealthy habit.
Befitting this thread's title, I've always found that things got much better after 'things came to a head.'
I think you are right about that. I just don't want bridges to burned here. Some things you just can't take back. Let's face it, that Obama character is NOT worth fighting about amongst ourselves.
Bebe seal strongly disagrees with your assessment: :-)
Bebe seal strongly disagrees with your assessment: lol- The baby seal population here in the CenTex is so very low that I forgot all about those little heads.
I'm not going to waste any more time with you dummys on this issue. You want to be suckered in by the neocons and politicians then be my guest. Hitler, Stalin, Castro and many of the others would love to have taken control of countries full of people like you guys raving about this birth crap. It would have made their jobs so much easier. I wonder how many of you would buy the Golden Gate bridge if it was offered to you cheap. A sucker is born every minute and there are a few of you on here to constantly justify that statement. A couple of you came over from LP and are using the names of others on LP. Whatsa matter? Too ashamed to use the same ID used on LP? LOL. I wonder how many of you are going to be able to admit what suckers you have been. Oh wait, Al Gore's people stole the debate practice documents from the bush campaign people! Reagan didn't know anything about Iran Contra! Oliver North never had anything to do with CIA and drug running! Iraq had so many WMD but they hid them in Russia and Syria when they figured out the US was gonna attack them! Osama Bin Laden is hiding under your bed.. you better be in fear and willing to give up all your rights... we will protect you! Honest we will! LOL What a bunch of goofs.
Go read it and then ask me that question.
No birth certificate yet? What is the matter with u guys? Kinda simple thing, no?
Morris Dancing - put your ass up in the air
According to this intriguing film(s) on this thread, we're both just metaphors for State "livestock" anyway. Neither of us can escape the reservation and/or truly be free.... (The film's author left out "...unless you're rich or powerful" but I believe by doing so they were insinuating they knew their viewers were already aware of that. Besides it would have been a distraction to the main points.) Imagine Big Jew lawyer/banker or the CIAFBICOPSDEAATFIRS behind the man wielding a hammer (made of several jackboots with automatic weapons, a vacuum for financial ruin, several judges and lawyers with their hands held out, and a set of grey bars to remove his freedom) because he may not have a license to be standing where he is or doing what he's doing.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP He's not one of the good guys and he only pretended to be until messiah hit the scene.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
who would that be and how do you know? if you're accusing TwentyTwelve of such, you are wrong. his LP moniker was TwentyTwelve. who else are you accusing?
There is no morality in war. Morality is the privilege of those judging from the distance. War is only death and destruction.--John Cory
I've seen that paranoia once before in another member.
EVIDENCE Despite the assurances of the Obama campaign, the dominant media and Internet commentators, significant unresolved questions still exist regarding Mr. Obama’s ability to meet the explicit requirements of the U.S. Constitution to hold the office of President as a natural born citizen who has not relinquished his American citizenship. Official government documents, statements by officials, affidavits, credible legal pleadings and statements by Mr. Obama’s globally dispersed family members give rise to these questions. Unfortunately, Mr. Obama has remained virtually silent against these allegations, refusing to produce his original (vault), certified, birth certificate as well as other legal documents that are normally readily available, which would quickly resolve the eligibility issue. In fact, the only document provided by Mr. Obama thus far is a 2007 computer-generated Certification of Live Birth, (“COLB”), generated by officials of the state of Hawaii, purportedly at the direction of the Governor and two U.S. Senators. This “short-form” document is NOT the same as the original vault copy (i.e., “Certificate of Live Birth”) as it does not bear a sworn certification of an attendant (physician) or contain other vital birth information such as hospital location, mother’s age, etc. The sample vault copy shown here is a copy of a legal “Certificate of Live Birth” obtained at the request of a person born in Hawaii in 1963. Given the statement of facts included in Mr. Berg’s lawsuit and additional evidence summarized herein, Mr. Obama’s continued failure to squarely address this festering issue suggests he is hiding something regarding the true nature of his citizenship. Absent a rebuttal by Mr. Obama, we believe a reasonable jury would conclude, after reviewing all the evidence, that Mr. Obama does not meet the eligibility requirements. Although the Internet is awash in unsubstantiated assertions and bits and pieces of evidence, we have chosen to focus on several of the most clearly articulated items of evidence. The Berg Lawsuit In August 2008, Pennsylvania attorney Phillip Berg filed a lawsuit seeking to enjoin Barack Obama from running for President unless he produced certain legal documentation establishing his status as a “natural born” citizen. Here is Berg’s initial complaint. What follows is a brief overview of some of the lawsuit’s allegations followed by links to the currently available evidence. a. Mr. Obama’s father was a citizen of Kenya, Obama’s mother was a U.S. Citizen. They met while both were attending the University of Hawaii. There is apparently no question regarding these facts. b. Mr. Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii -- Citing Obama family sources, Berg claims that Obama’s mother, while residing in Kenya, was not allowed by Kenyan authorities (because of her late-stage pregnancy) to fly back to the U.S. before she gave birth to Obama in Kenya. c. Mr. Obama is a citizen of Kenya, not the U.S. – Citing U.S. law in effect in 1961, Mr. Berg argues Obama could not possess U.S. citizenship because Obama’s mother, although a U.S. citizen, was only 18 years old. U.S. immigration law in 1961 explicitly denied U.S. citizenship at birth to children of mixed national parentage, unless the U.S. citizen parent (in this case Obama’s mother) had resided in the U.S. for 10 years, 5 of those required to be after attaining the age of 14. Because Obama’s mother was not yet 19, according to Berg, Obama was either a citizen of Kenya, or in the alternative, became a naturalized U.S. citizen. Either way, Berg argues Obama is not eligible to hold the office of President because he would not be a natural born citizen. NOTE: Attorney Leo C. Donofrio, in his recent brief to the Supreme Court of the United States makes an additional persuasive argument that Mr. Obama fails the eligibility test based on the historical context, purpose and original intent of Constitution’s the natural born citizen clause. After clicking on the following link, click here to read Mr. Donofrio’s arguments to the Supreme Court. d. Obama became a citizen of Indonesia – Following Mr. Obama’s mother’s divorce from Barack Obama (senior), she married Lolo Soetoro, a student at the University of Hawaii and a citizen of Indonesia. In 1967 she moved to Indonesia with Obama. She became a naturalized citizen of Indonesia, relinquishing her American citizenship. At the time, Indonesian law prohibited dual citizenships and American law disallowed dual citizenships if the other country did not allow dual citizenships. At this time, even if Obama was Registered as a “natural born” citizen (which he apparently he was not qualify to be registered as), he would have lost his U.S. Citizenship when his mother married Lolo Soetoro (who apparently adopted Barack Obama giving him the name of Barry Soetoro) and took up residency in Indonesia as a naturalized Indonesian citizen. Berg argues that at the time, Indonesia did not allow dual citizenships, and U.S. law did not allow dual citizenships if the other country did not allow it. FightTheSmears.com In 2007, Mr. Obama released a scanned graphic copy of a computer-generated Certification of Live Berth (“COLB”) via this campaign website, (www.fightthesmears.com). After numerous individuals began to question the authenticity of the document supplied by Obama, a “respected” political watchdog organization, FactCheck.org initiated an “independent” analysis of Obama’s COLB, which included physical examination of the document and photographs of the document. The organization concluded the document is authentic and that, as indicated on the certificate, Obama was therefore born in Honolulu, Hawaii. FactCheck.org apparently did not check the meaning of the content of the authentic, COLB. For instance, FactCheck.org did not determine if the authentic, Hawaiian issued, computer-generated, Certification of Live Birth was generated from a State database that included births that were registered in Hawaii after occurring in foreign countries. According to Berg, it was not uncommon for people living in Hawaii to give birth in foreign countries and then register the birth in Hawaii. Surprisingly, FactCheck.org apparently did not ask Mr. Obama to obtain a copy of the official vault copy of his birth certificate. Beside its apparent failure to investigate the proper document, an apparent conflict of interest exists regarding FactCheck’s analysis. FactCheck.org is an arm of the powerful Annenberg Foundation Statements By Hawaiian Public Officials on the Record On October 31, undoubtedly in reaction to the growing number of lawsuits surrounding the issue of Obama’s eligibility, Chiyome Fukino, director of Hawaii’s Department of Health, issued a public statement regarding her office’s inspection of Obama’s birth certificate. In her brief press release she stated: “There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. “No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.” Unfortunately, numerous media and Internet outlets (see e.g., here, here) erroneously concluded this pronouncement settled the matter. In fact, the raises additional doubts about Obama’s citizenship status and, thus, his eligibility. At no point in the release does the Director of Health state or claim that Obama was actually born in Hawaii. She merely states she has personally inspected the original document in their possession and that it is being stored according to state regulations. Compounding the problem was the subsequent statement of Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo (see Chicago Tribune, 10-31-08). Citing Hawaii state privacy laws, and guidance from the state attorney general, she said she, “was not permitted to confirm the authenticity of the certificate released by the Obama campaign.” She also said Obama’s computer-generated COLB “appeared similar to other Hawaii birth certificates.” In sum, the statement by the Health Department spokesman Okubo does not speak to the substance or veracity of the Obama computer-generated document, only that its “form” appears similar. Nor does she address the issue of the meaning of the content of the document, and whether there is an actual long-form Certificate of Live Birth in the vault. Mr. Berg submitted photographic evidence to the Court indicating Obama, known then as “Barry Soetoro,” was enrolled by his parents (at approximately age 6) at the public Fransiskus Assisi School in Jakarta, Indonesia. This suggests he was adopted by his step-father. In the school document (which is also translated into English), Obama’s birth place is indicated as Honolulu, but his citizenship is indicated as Indonesian. As a minor, Mr. Obama’s citizenship went with the custodial parent, who, under Indonesian law had to be the father. Obama's name is given as “Barry Soetoro.” In a citizenship related PolitFact/St. Petersburg Times article, they provide a document they obtained from the Illinois Supreme Court’s Attorney Registration & Discipline Commission (ARDC) apparently indicating that the official records make no mention of any prior name except “Barack Hussein Obama.” The Sworn Affidavits Evidence recently made available to an Internet news (www.newswithviews.com) from the office of attorney Phil Berg, includes two (partially photographic) sworn affidavits containing important first-hand knowledge regarding Barack Obama, including testimony of a direct, in-person interview of Obama’s Kenyan grandmother in which she asserts she was present at Obama’s birth in Kenya. Read the sworn affidavits of Bishop Ron McRae and (includes a partial transcript of the grandmother’s interview) CONCLUSION Given the relative strength of the evidence and the public interest in the issue, Mr. Obama is obligated to respond to any citizen’s Petition for Redress of the apparent violation of the Constitution’s natural born citizenship clause. We the People demand and deserve nothing less. Click here to read the draft full-page USA TODAY Letter to Obama.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Click here to view a copy of the final text published in the Chicago Tribune Are you a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S.? December 1, 2008 Mr. Barack Obama Kluczynski Federal Building Dear Mr. Obama: Representing thousands of responsible American citizens who have also taken an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America from all enemies foreign and domestic, I am duty bound to call on you to remedy an apparent violation of the Constitution. Compelling evidence supports the claim that you are barred from holding the Office of President by the “natural born citizen” clause of the U.S. Constitution. For instance: Your father was a Kenyan citizen at the time of your birth and your mother was 18. Legal affidavits state you were born in Kenya. Your grandmother is recorded on tape saying she attended your birth in Kenya. Hawaii Dept of Health will not confirm your assertion that you were born in Hawaii. You have posted an unsigned, computer-generated birth form that was created in 2007, a form that lacks vital information found on an original, hand signed Certificate of Live Birth, such as hospital address, signature of attending physician and age of mother. U.S. Law in 1961 denied U.S. citizenship to any child born in Kenya if the father was Kenyan and the mother was not yet 19 years of age. In 1965, your mother legally relinquished whatever Kenyan or U.S. citizenship she and you had by marrying an Indonesian and becoming a naturalized Indonesian citizen. You have repeatedly refused to provide evidence of your eligibility when challenged to do so in a number of recent lawsuits. Instead, you have been successful in having judges declare that they are powerless to order you to prove your eligibility to assume the Office of President. For instance, the judge in Pennsylvania ruled the challenger had no standing to question your eligibility because his harm would be no different from the harm to be suffered by all other American citizens if you, as an ineligible person were to assume the Presidency. The judge in Hawaii actually said it would be an invasion of your privacy for him to order access to your original birth certificate in order to prove your eligibility to hold the Office of President. Before you can legitimately exercise any of the powers of the President you must meet all the criteria for eligibility established by the Constitution. You are under a moral, legal, and fiduciary duty to proffer such evidence. Should you assume the office as anyone but a bona fide natural born citizen of the United States who has You would always be viewed by many Americans as a poseur - a usurper. As a usurper, you would be unable to take the required “Oath or Affirmation” on January 20 without committing the crime of perjury or false swearing, for being ineligible you cannot faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States. You would be entitled to no obedience whatsoever from the People. The armed forces would be under no legal obligation to remain obedient to you. No civilian in the Executive Branch would be required to obey any of your proclamations, executive orders or directives, as such orders would be legally void. Your appointments of Ambassadors and Judges to the Supreme Court would be void no matter what subsequent actions the Senate might take. Congress would not be able to pass new laws because it would not be able to acquire the signature of a bona fide President. As a usurper, Congress would be unable to remove you from the Office of the President on Impeachment, inviting certain political chaos including a potential for armed conflicts within the General Government or among the States and the People to effect the removal of such a usurper. In consideration of the escalating constitutional crisis brought on by the total lack of evidence needed to conclusively establish your eligibility, I am compelled to lodge a First Amendment Petition for a Redress of this constitutional tort. With all due respect, I ask that you immediately direct the appropriate Hawaiian officials to allow access to the vault copy of your birth certificate by our forensic scientists on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, December 5, 6 and 7, 2008. In addition, I ask that you to arrange to have the following documentary evidence delivered to the National Press Club by 10 am on December 8, 2008. a certified copy of your “vault” (original long version) birth certificate. certified copies of all reissued and sealed birth certificates in the names Barack Hussein Obama, Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, Barack Dunham and Barry Dunham. a certified copy of your Certification of Citizenship. a certified copy of your Oath of Allegiance taken upon age of maturity. certified copies of your admission forms for Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School. certified copies of any court orders or legal documents changing your name from Barry Soetoro. “In a government of laws, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy.” Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 438. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in this urgent matter. Sincerely, We The People Foundation For Constitutional Education, Inc. www.WeThePeopleFoundation.org 2458 Ridge Road Queensbury, NY 12804 "If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
Here you go little Traitor piglets, an opportunity to denigrate another Constitution loving patriot. Tell Bob Schultz what is. Pigs
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
i'm pinging icon since on another thread he claimed that Bob Schulz and the entire WeThePeopleFoundation organization are bigots. iconoclast, cite your evidence for that, please.
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#51. To: Ferret Mike (#47)
#52. To: Lady X (#50)
Sir, you're way out of line here..
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
#53. To: bluegrass (#51)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#54. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
#55. To: farmfriend (#52)
Sir, you're way out of line here...... I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
#56. To: Ferret Mike (#53)
#57. To: farmfriend (#52)
I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
#58. To: farmfriend (#52)
(Edited)
"I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word."
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#59. To: farmfriend (#52)
I've seen just as bad posted to him and no one said a word.
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#60. To: Ferret Mike, ALL, christine, farmfriend, x-15, lodwick, jethro tull, cynicom, rotara, original_intent, noone222 (#58)
(Edited)
This place has become.....blah blah
In this regard, the diversity of opinion that you laud and extol is too often an opinion diametrically opposed to the very existence of the fact that Liberty has been infringed at all.
And in the cold cruel face of reality and the gravity of the situation with which we are faced, such thoughts, which are considered opposed to the new goal of regaining our lost Liberty, are not allies. This has now become a war of words. And everything and everyone who opposes Liberty is fair game for verbal assault.
You can stay on the right side (there is one) and try to help us find solutions.
You can leave believing that no Liberty is lost, and all is well, and that we here at 4um are the problem, and leave to become a bewildered casualty of the totalitarian war that has already been waged against everything that we know is moral and just. Liberty is in the ICU. 
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#61. To: IndieTX, Ferret Mike, ALL (#60)
Believe it or not, Truth really exists. I'm not sure anyone can recognize it in an atmosphere of subterfuge, controlled media, brainwashing/psychological manipulation, and treason.
#62. To: Ferret Mike, Lady X, rotara, christine (#58)
(Edited)
Tara here even has done death threats.
I am in forums to discuss and engage in lively discussion where after the disagreement, people still respect another's right to their point of view and humanity.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
#63. To: IndieTX (#60)
Rather than defect, I hope you stay.
#64. To: X-15 (#59)
Within one year Obama will be sifted and weighed for his executive acumen as POTUS, the proof will be evident to all whether America chose wisely or not.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
#65. To: IndieTX (#60)
(Edited)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#66. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
I also am sure the classic FReeper tactic of organizing behind the scenes to pour complaints to the forum administration about opponents is in play here as well.
#67. To: Ferret Mike (#65)
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#68. To: christine (#66)
"You only have power over people so long as you don't take everything away from them. But when you've robbed a man of everything he's no longer in your power -- he's free again. Alexander Solzhenitsyn
#69. To: Ferret Mike (#68)
It's been fun. But that was then, and this is now. Take care.
#70. To: Ferret Mike (#68)
(Edited)
He and his team know there is no meat to this issue, and it is not requisite for them to educate those who just want to destroy him primarily for quite a different set of reasons and to serve the agenda of a different sort of political POV then that he represents.
#71. To: Ferret Mike, ALL (#65)
(Edited)
Attention: The following deconstruction of the bullshit posted is intended for the masses who did not read my post and the responder.
Your idea of "make it work" is merely your own frustration at being out-debated and verbally torn to shreds with logical arguments.
You are also totally avoiding any point I made in my post and deflecting and dodging all of it. You are trying to create a non issue: That something here "doesn't work." You espouse communist ideals of "level playing fields" and equal results. Not only did you not comprehend my post, you totally disregarded it.
Those who care about Liberty and the ignorant alike are at this very moment being threatened with the most powerful totalitarian machinery in the history of this nation. Do people get emotional about that when you oppose them? Yes. And they should.
Somewhere in there I thought there might be the flickering glimmer of Patrick Henry. It's obvious I had way too much faith in you.
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#72. To: Ferret Mike (#68)
#73. To: Ferret Mike (#68)
(Edited)
It's been fun. But that was then, and this is now. Take care.
#74. To: Ferret Mike, IndieTX, Christine (#68)
The Constitution is there to protect unpopular few of any group against the mindset, opinions and world view of the majority.
#75. To: swarthyguy, all (#74)
#76. To: lodwick (#75)
#77. To: lodwick (#75)
(Edited)
I've always found that things got much better after 'things came to a head.'
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#78. To: X-15 (#77)
I've always found that things got much better after 'things came to a head.'
#79. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
#80. To: Artisan (#46)
#81. To: bush_is_a_moonie, Wiccans for Christ (#79)
What a bunch of goofs.
#82. To: X-15, lodwick, gengis gandhi, all, christine, cynicom (#77)
(Edited)
Man and seal
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#83. To: IndieTX (#71)
#84. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#79)
A couple of you came over from LP and are using the names of others on LP.
#85. To: christine (#84)
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
#86. To: Yellow Cake, bush_is_a_moonie, TwentyTwelve, Christine, JethroTull, IndieTX, lodwick, farmfriend, ALL (#81)
(See e.g., Findlaw immigration overview)
NOTE: Obama’s Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth,” reviewed by FactCheck, was created in 2007. This raises an additional question as to what documentation Obama used to establish his citizenship to run for Illinois state Senator or U.S. Senator in 2006.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
This omission speaks volumes, strongly suggesting that either something may not be right with the official documentation produced by the Hawaii Department of Health or that the 2007 documentation proffered by Senator Obama may in fact be fraudulent.
Indonesian School records
#87. To: All (#86)
An Open Letter to Barack Obama:
Are you legally eligible to hold the Office of President?
Barack Obama Transition Office
230 So. Dearborn St.
Chicago, Illinois 60604
not relinquished that citizenship, you would be inviting a national crisis that would undermine the domestic peace and stability of the Nation. For example:
Robert L. Schulz
Chairman
info@givemeliberty.org
#88. To: All (#87)
#89. To: ferret mike, bush_is_a_moonie, avastrightwingconspirator, all commie rat douchebags that claimed to support Ron Paul (#87)
#90. To: Rotara, iconoclast (#89)
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