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Title: Obama's Eligibility in Question
Source:
Chicago Tribune newspaper ad
URL Source: http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.or ... oTribune-ObamaLtr-Nov-2008.pdf
Published: Dec 3, 2008
Author: Robert L. Schulz
Post Date: 2008-12-03 14:34:40 by Phant2000
Keywords: None
Views: 1234
Comments: 35
Maybe if all those NOT voting for Mr. Obama had signed the subject letter, he might not have ignored it. http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/misc2008/ChicagoTribune-ObamaLtr-Nov-2008.pdf
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 22.
#2. To: Phant2000 (#0)
Documents nonsense aside, was Obama's mother also not American born? I think not. Then no matter where he was born, is he not just as American as John McCain who was born in Panama? Thanks for the link to "We the Bigots Foundation". Not unexpectedly I found no reference at this site to any individual connected to the "organization". Not the first time I've encountered this with such sites! How puzzling! These types seem inclined to wear a hood! No?
No, it is not that simple. If McCain was born off-base in Colon, Republic of Panama of two U.S. citizen parents, he was a natural born citizen. If McCain was born on base, the complicated laws in effect in 1936 (changed in 1937) would appear to indicate he did not become a citizen until 1937. While the laws subsequent to 1936 would retrooactively make McCain a citizen, it could not make him a citizen at birth, i.e., a natural born citizen. If Obama was born in the U.S., he would be a natural born citizen pursuant to the Fourteenth amandment. If Obama was born in Kenya to a U.S. citizen mother and a Kenyan father, then there were certain residency requirements his mother had to meet which apparently were not met resulting in his not being born a citizen. Current law at 8 U.S.C. § 1401(g) provides: An amendment provided: Had Obama been born in Kenya, the law required his citizen mother "prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years...." Regarding McCain, the Act of May 24, 1934 granted citizenship to "[a]ny child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such child is a citizen of the United States...." Assuming birth on base in the Canal Zone, McCain was in a legal no-man's land. He was not born within the territory of the U.S. so the Fourteenth Amendment did not apply. He was not born out of the limits of the jurisdiction of the United States, so the Act of May 24, 1934 did not cover him either. The loophole was closed by legislation in 1937 but that could not retroactively make him a natural born citizen. The Canal Zone was an unincorporated territory of the U.S. and not considered part of the U.S. for citizenship purposes. Overseas military bases are not part of the United States and birth on such bases does not confer citizenship. Colon, Panama was specified as not being included in the Canal Zone. While McCain held for many years that he was born in the hospital on the military base, that hospital was built in the 1940's and did not exist when McCain was born in 1936. The birth record produced for McCain indicates he was born in Colon, in the Republic of Panama and not on base or in the Canal Zone. If McCain was born in Colon, Republic of Panama he was born outside the territory and jurisdiction of the U.S. and was a citizen at birth pursuant to the Act of May 24, 1934. However, this is not an official government record, purports to be from the records of the Panama Railroad Company, and is certifed by a company employee, and generally lacks official government indicia. McCain's birth is not reflected in the Canal Zone birth registry. As the base hospital had not yet been built, it is likely that McCain really was born off base in the Colon hospital and that he was a natural born U.S. citizen. NATURAL BORN CITIZEN SOURCE MATERIAL For various points of view, see: http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/chin.pdf Gabriel J. Chin, Commentary, Why Senator John McCain Cannot Be President: Eleven Months and a Hundred Yards Short of Citizenship, 107 Mich. L. Rev. First Impressions 1 (2008). http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1133663 Bonner, J. Rebekka Susan,Who May Be President? Constitutional Reinterpretation of Article II's 'Natural Born' Presidential Eligibility Clause. [2008] http://yalelawjournal.org/images/pdfs/pryor_note.pdf Pryor, Jill A., The Natural-Born Citizen Clause and Presidential Eligibility: An Approach for Resolving Two Hundred Years of Uncertainty, Yale Law Journal, Vol. 97 [1988] http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/art2frag5_user.html#art2_sec1cl5 Qualifications, Congressional Research Service Annotated Constitution
I am confused by this underlined (emphasized) portion of your post. Can you supply a scintilla of evidence indicating that (Stanley) Ann Dunham did not meet these specifications? If not, why the all the dust up?
I am confused by this underlined (emphasized) portion of your post. Can you supply a scintilla of evidence indicating that (Stanley) Ann Dunham did not meet these specifications? If not, why the all the dust up? I do not have any personal belief that Obama was born in Kenya and I was only addressing the applicable law as it would apply if he had been born in Kenya. Before the 1986 amendment, had Obama been born in Kenya, the legal requirement on a citizen mother was "prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years...." While I have seen no evidence that she gave birth in Kenya, if she were in Kenya giving birth at age 18, she presumably was not physically present in the United States for 5 years after attaining the age of fourteen years when she gave birth to her son. The (unsupported) supposition places her outside the United States, and five years will not mathematically fit between 14 and 18. Sometimes the law is an ass, but as I read that statute the citizen mother being physically present for 5 years would have to be at least 19. The COLB indicates Obama was born in Honolulu. While some folks have pointed out that someone born overseas can later register the foreign birth with the state of Hawaii, that does not mean the registration will convert his place of birth to Honolulu. As a legal issue, there just is not much of one. No individual has standing for such a suit in federal court so nobody gets heard on the questionable merits. The legal arguments, such as they are, are frivolous and the district court judge said exactly that. The factual arguments are generally not much more than referencing internet rumor. The purported "expert" document examiners have largely been demolished by Dr. Neal Krawitz. I believe this is a big waste of time but Obama does not mind. If his detractors are busy with this nonsense they are not focused on anything that might matter. It is not impossible that this was generated from the left with the idea being to let the opposition waste as much time as possible and discredit itself in the process. Illegal immigration might have been a topic worthy of campaign discussion but we had 6 hours of major party debate without a mention of it. The debates were almost as substantive as a Seinfeld show about nothing.
hehehehehe
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#13. To: iconoclast, TwentyTwelve, X-15, IndieTX, farmfriend (#2)
Documents nonsense aside, was Obama's mother also not American born? I think not. Then no matter where he was born, is he not just as American as John McCain who was born in Panama?
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person (A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or (B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date;
1986--Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 99-653 substituted "five years, at least two'' for "ten years, at least five''.
#15. To: nolu_chan (#13)
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:
#20. To: iconoclast (#15)
[nc] the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years:
An amendment provided:
1986--Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 99-653 substituted "five years, at least two'' for "ten years, at least five''.
#22. To: nolu_chan (#20)
Replies to Comment # 22.