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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: OBAMA FAILS TO SALUTE THE U.S. FLAG, WON'T WEAR THE AMERICAN PIN, WEARS ISRAEL'S, REMOVES AMERICAN FLAG FROM HIS PLANE & DRESSES UP IN MUSLIM GARB
Source: supportbordercontrols.blogspot.com
URL Source: http://supportbordercontrols.blogsp ... e-us-flag-wont-wear.html#links
Published: Nov 10, 2008
Author: clifylq
Post Date: 2008-12-18 18:16:44 by Itisa1mosttoolate
Keywords: None
Views: 2961
Comments: 246

OBAMA FAILS TO SALUTE THE U.S. FLAG, WON'T WEAR THE AMERICAN PIN, WEARS ISRAEL'S, REMOVES AMERICAN FLAG FROM HIS PLANE & DRESSES UP IN MUSLIM GARB

I WOULD SAY THAT THIS NEW BASTARD YOU ELECTED TO OFFICE TO REPLACE BUSH IS ANTI AMERICAN WOULDN'T YOU? OR DON'T YOU EVEN CARE?

Barack Obama recently finished a $500,000 total overhaul of his 757. And as part of the new design, he decided to remove the American flag from the tail. What American running for President of the United States would remove the symbol of his country? And worse, he replaced the flag with a symbol of himself.This is not the same as “forgetting” to put your hand over your heart during the national anthem. It is not even the same as wearing or not wearing an American flag lapel pin. It is a conscious, expensive decision to emphasize the importance of self over country. It is the very essence of arrogance, hubris, and, yes, megalomania.

Click for Full Text!


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#41. To: Jethro Tull, Rotara, All (#34) (Edited)

That is the core of the differences we have; they believe in government as long as it's Democrat controlled, and most others here reject government regardless of who is president.

That's why I like this board. It's not for debate because boards are a poor for debating, but for fellowship even if it is a "make believe" interenet world.

While there are disagreements we handle them like grown men and women and state why we disagree. There is never any hard feelings. At least none that I can see.

I agree in that it is the partisan political people that stir up the shit here. Now its the democrats. In 4 years or less (if we last that long...) it will be the republicans doing the shit-stirring. I wonder which current members that will be... or will there be an invasion?

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2008-12-19   9:54:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: christine (#35)

Obamaphile? Complaining?

I am not complaining but I do not, with some sadness, that the quality of the debate at this forum is not improving, to say it very mildly. I suppose there is some attraction in changing a debate site into an echo chamber. The outcome is, to some lesser extent because the physical proximity is absent, what you get when the loud-mouths take over the microphones and whip the mobs into some mindless frenzy. It makes for great entertainment and that is one of the reasons I still visit this site from time to time but you can't call what's happening here 'debate' or 'discussion' and claim that you are serious.

As for me, 'taking up' anything with JT or his lesser screamers... are you kidding? I am having much more meaningful exchanges of ideas with my dogs.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-12-19   10:05:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#28)

freedom4um.com/cgi- bin/index.cgi

The mission of this forum is to provide a cyberspace meeting place where lovers of individual freedom can gather to post articles and opinions about the world's events and how these events affect their unalienable rights to life, liberty, and property.

One of our fundamental rights is that of our right to freedom of association. The correlative right to freedom of association is the equally important right to freedom of non-association. Yes, the right to NOT associate -- to exclude people from our interrelationships, for any reason, based on personal preference, is also a fundamental right. This right should be free from government interference, coercion, policies, statutes, rules, regulations, codes, or force.

Another fundamental right is the right to private property -- to own and enjoy our property free from government or second-party interference, as long as one's use of that property does not trespass on the equal rights of another.

Consistent with these two fundamental unalienable rights, this forum constitutes the private property of its owners and, as such, allows for the exercise of our right to freedom of association and freedom of non-association, based on our preferences. Therefore, regarding banning policies of this forum, as they relate to the protection of private property, the owners reserve the right to suspend or terminate the posting privileges of guests on this forum at our discretion.

That said, we will endeavor to use this discretion judiciously while being mindful of not allowing guests to post on this forum who, we believe, are detrimental to the goals and values consistent with that of individual liberty.

christine  posted on  2008-12-19   10:10:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#42)

I am not complaining but I do not, with some sadness, that the quality of the debate at this forum is not improving, to say it very mildly.

Lets debate.

Tell me who Obama has appointed to his cabinet that will make a difference in our present political system?

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-12-19   10:16:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Jethro Tull, a vast rightwing conspirator (#44)

Title: Change? Obama Inner Circle Filled With Bilderbergers
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/obama_bilderbergers_160.html

Published: Dec 16, 2008
Author: Victor Thorn
Post Date: 2008-12-16 23:59:22 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 52

Comments: 3

FOR TWO YEARS, Americans have heard an unrelenting mantra of change emanating from the campaign trail. But now that President-elect Barack Obama has begun forming his cabinet, we’re seeing a cadre of more deeply entrenched insiders than any administration that has preceded it.

In regard to key foreign policy advisors, all three of Obama’s selections either initially supported the Iraq war, or still do. On the economic front, each appointee maintains a close relationship with the Jewish triad of Ben Bernanke, Robert Rubin and Alan Greenspan—as well as bailout engineer Henry Paulson. Barack Obama himself is a Council on Foreign Relations member, has strong ties to Zbigniew Brzezinski, and participated in a clandestine meeting with Hillary Clinton at Bilderberg member Diane Feinstein’s house at the time when 2008 Bilderberg members were congregating only a few miles away.

Below is an overview of Obama’s top 14 selections to date. When considering their collective histories, a trend becomes clear, proving that the more things change under Obama, the more they stay the same.

1. TIMOTHY GEITHNER – TREASURY SECRETARY

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, president and CEO of Federal Reserve Bank of New York, director of policy development for IMF, member Group of Thirty (G30), employed at Kissinger & Associates, architect of the recent 2008 financial bailouts, mentored by Lawrence Summers and Robert Rubin.

2. PAUL VOLCKER – ECONOMIC RECOVERY ADVISORY BOARD

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, North American chairman of Trilateral Commission, Federal Reserve chairman during Carter and Reagan administrations, president of Federal Reserve Bank of New York, G30 member, chairman Rothschild Wolfensohn Company, key figure in the collapse of the gold standard during the Nixon administration, longtime associate of the Rockefeller family.

3. RAHM EMANUEL – CHIEF OF STAFF

Member of Israeli Defense Force, staunch Zionist, senator, Board of Directors for Freddie Mac, member of Bill Clinton’s finance campaign committee, made $16.2 million during 2.5 years as an investment banker for Wasserstein Perella. His father was a member of the Israeli Irgun terrorist group.

4. LAWRENCE SUMMERS – NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, treasury secretary during Clinton administration, chief economist at World Bank, former president of Harvard University, Brookings Institute board member, huge proponent of globalization while working for the IMF, protŠ01; of David Rockefeller, mentored by Robert Rubin.

5. DAVID AXELROD – SENIOR ADVISOR

Political consultant whose past clients include Sens. Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Christopher Dodd; main Obama fixer in the William Ayers and Reverend Wright scandals.

6. HILLARY CLINTON – SECRETARY OF STATE

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, clandestine CIA asset used to infiltrate the anti-war movement at Yale University and the Watergate hearings, senior partner at the Rose Law Firm, key figure in the Mena drug trafficking affair, architect of the Waco disaster, implicated in the murder/ cover-up of Vince Foster, and many other deaths.

7. JOSEPH BIDEN – VICE PRESIDENT

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, U.S. Senator since 1972, member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, current chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, strong Zionist sympathizer who recently told Rabbi Mark S. Golub of Shalom TV, “I am a Zionist. You don’t have to be a Jew to be a Zionist.”

8. BILL RICHARDSON – COMMERCE SECRETARY

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, former U.S. congressman, chairman of the Democratic National Convention in 2004, employee of Kissinger Associates, UN ambassador, governor of New Mexico, energy secretary, major player in the Monica Lewinsky cover-up with Bilderberg luminary Vernon Jordan.

9. ROBERT GATES – DEFENSE SECRETARY

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, former CIA Director, defense secretary under President Bush, co-chaired CFR task force with Zbigniew Brzezinski, knee-deep in the Iran-Contra scandal, named in a 1999 class action lawsuit pertaining to the Mena drug trafficking affair.

10. TOM DASCHLE – HEALTH SECRETARY

Bilderberg, Council on Foreign Relations, former Senate majority leader, Citibank lackey, mentored by Robert Rubin.

11. ERIC HOLDER – ATTORNEY GENERAL

Key person in the pardon of racketeer Marc Rich, deputy attorney general under Janet Reno, facilitated the pardon of 16 Puerto Rican FALN terrorists under Bill Clinton.

12. JANET NAPOLITANO – HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR

Council on Foreign Relations, Arizona governor, attorney for Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas hearings, U.S. attorney during the Clinton administration, instrumental in the OKC cover-up, where she declared, “We’ll pursue every bit of evidence and every lead,” described as another Janet Reno, soft on illegal immigration (i.e. pro-amnesty and drivers licenses to illegals).

13. GEN. JAMES L. JONES – NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR

Bilderberg, Trilateral Commission, European supreme allied commander, special envoy for Middle-East Security during Bush administration, board of directors for Chevron and Boeing, NATO commander, member of Brent Scowcroft’s Institute for International Affairs along with Zbigniew Brzezinski, Bobby Ray Inman, Bilderberg luminary Henry Kissinger and former CIA Director John Deutch.

14. SUSAN RICE – U.N. AMBASSADOR

Council on Foreign Relations, Rhodes scholar, campaign foreign policy advisor to presidential candidates John Kerry and Michael Dukakis, member of Bill Clinton’s National Security Council and assistant secretary of state for Africa, member of the Brookings Institute (funded by the Ford Foundation and the Rockefellers), and member of the Aspen Strategy Group (teeming with Bilderberg insiders such as Richard Armitage, Brent Scowcroft, and Madeleine Albright).

For a reference point. This is always a waste of time with these fucking Traitorous clowns, but what the hell. I have some time to kill today.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   10:28:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: ALL (#45)

Obama’s top 14 selections to date.

There has never been a larger collection of America hating world socialist illegal shadow government Traitors in history !!!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   10:32:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Rotara (#46)

Good luck with the small band of leftists who remain. Their work here isn't quite finished.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-12-19   10:39:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Jethro Tull (#47)

Good luck with the small band of leftists who remain. Their work here isn't quite finished.

I'm tired of their evil shell game.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   10:44:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Jethro Tull (#44)

LOL - sorry friend. You may not have figured this out but I'm not handcuffed and you are not in the position to question anybody.

Anyways, your interesting (while bizarre) attempt at 'debate' is a good illustration of the problems a forum like this one faces when the likes of you drag it into a ditch - or is it a crevasse? - where mindlessness and low-grade profanity prevail. It's not so easy to pull it out of there.

So, good luck managing your echo chamber.

Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'

a vast rightwing conspirator  posted on  2008-12-19   10:58:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#42)

I am having much more meaningful exchanges of ideas with my dogs.

You are welcome to repair to your kennel, sir, where you may lecture your hapless pets by the hour on the virtues of the Chosen One and the sins of the unwashed. I think it would be far kinder to feed them a treat or take them for a walk.

Now that the constitutional butchery of the outgoing administration is coming to an end and that empty suit of yours comes into office, we hear nary a peep about the "Patriot" Act, the Presidential Decision Directives, the warrantless wiretaps, or the war toward which this man offered a token and totally false oppostion manufactured to lure the gullible to the voting place.

"Then, as I paid more attention to him and I learned more about him AND as I saw the despicable monsters he was fighting on both the Demo and the GOP sides, I understood that, as far as the presidency of the state is concerned, he was 'it'.

As much as my prediction could make the sissy stoopids roll on the floor, shaking and foam at their foul mouths, I see Obama as a the fifth Mt. Rushmore figure, in about 50 years."

Well, now we have "it," and it looks like all the awful machinery of executive oppression erected by George II remains locked in place. The people's champion has damned little to say about it.

You seem to have an affinity for the canine, and the Obamas are shopping for the obligatory White House pet. Why don't you request an application??

randge  posted on  2008-12-19   10:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: randge (#50)

Salute...

Very well done.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-19   11:02:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: randge (#50)

You are welcome to repair to your kennel, sir, where you may lecture your hapless pets by the hour on the virtues of the Chosen One and the sins of the unwashed. I think it would be far kinder to feed them a treat or take them for a walk.

Now that the constitutional butchery of the outgoing administration is coming to an end and that empty suit of yours comes into office, we hear nary a peep about the "Patriot" Act, the Presidential Decision Directives, the warrantless wiretaps, or the war toward which this man offered a token and totally false oppostion manufactured to lure the gullible to the voting place.

"Then, as I paid more attention to him and I learned more about him AND as I saw the despicable monsters he was fighting on both the Demo and the GOP sides, I understood that, as far as the presidency of the state is concerned, he was 'it'.

As much as my prediction could make the sissy stoopids roll on the floor, shaking and foam at their foul mouths, I see Obama as a the fifth Mt. Rushmore figure, in about 50 years."

Well, now we have "it," and it looks like all the awful machinery of executive oppression erected by George II remains locked in place. The people's champion has damned little to say about it.

You seem to have an affinity for the canine, and the Obamas are shopping for the obligatory White House pet. Why don't you request an application??

Sweeeeet. LOL!

"Wherever a Knave is not punished, an honest Man is laugh'd at." -- George Savile (1633-1695)
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." -- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

OliviaFNewton  posted on  2008-12-19   11:03:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#49)

You may not have figured this out but I'm not handcuffed and you are not in the position to question anybody.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!

You're handcuffed by your own beliefs.

Lose-Lose-Loser situation for you.

This is why no American has anything to say to you.

GOOD GRIEF - I seriously can't wait for the million moron Ocorps to hit my hood.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:04:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#49)

the problems a forum like this one faces when the likes of you drag it into a ditch

Traitor.

You Traitors couldn't bamboozle with b.s. anymore so you ran for communist climes.

GFY commie.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:06:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#42)

It makes for great entertainment and that is one of the reasons I still visit this site from time to time but you can't call what's happening here 'debate' or 'discussion' and claim that you are serious.

it's obvious that you're not interested in debate, vast. there are plenty of quality articles on a variety of topics offered here on a daily basis, but you're not interested. your interest is worship of your obamamessiah and you find fault and criticize as lesser anyone who's not in line with that.

i think at this point you have an agenda to damage this 4um and that your desire is to cause further dissention.

you are not a person who respects individualism. your values as an american do not match mine or the purpose of Freedom4um. it's time to exercise my right to freedom of association or not. i no longer welcome you here.

christine  posted on  2008-12-19   11:10:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Rotara (#54)

He must be on the payroll.

A self-respecting human being wouldn't countenance coming here to be kicked in the teeth on a regular basis, day after day with nothing to show for it.

randge  posted on  2008-12-19   11:10:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: randge (#50)

Bra-Vo !!

I see Obama as a the fifth Mt. Rushmore figure, in about 50 years."

Holy crap. Mental Disorder is not even close to the depth of issue here !

"Obama take care of my family!" ~jumper

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:11:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: christine (#55)

Does that mean Vast is banned? I don't care for vasts views. But contrasting views are good. Either way your ok in my book.

Old Friend  posted on  2008-12-19   11:14:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: christine (#55)

Don't do it, Christine.

These Obamalings and their allies serve a valuable function.

They return time and time again, like moths to a candle, and regularly get their asses kicked because facts and the truth are not on their side.

randge  posted on  2008-12-19   11:14:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: randge (#56)

He must be on the payroll.

I think their new ObamaCorp Internet Patrol tights (green of course) with built in kneepads, came in. He had to try them out.

"Wherever a Knave is not punished, an honest Man is laugh'd at." -- George Savile (1633-1695)
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." -- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

OliviaFNewton  posted on  2008-12-19   11:15:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: randge (#56)

He must be on the payroll.

A self-respecting human being wouldn't countenance coming here to be kicked in the teeth on a regular basis, day after day with nothing to show for it.

I just had an interesting exchange offline about that subject and that poster.

All I can say is 'very enlightening' has been this final selection season.

We know we're there for many reasons, but one tip off was when all the Traitors took off their masks.

Their arrogance gave them away (along with their hatred for the Constitution - including RKBA).

In the next run at it, no voting for people dependent on the corp.gov tit. For starters

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:16:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#49)

LOL - sorry friend. You may not have figured this out but I'm not handcuffed and you are not in the position to question anybody.

OK, I think I have this straight. You cry to christine that I am stifling debate and when you are challenged to defend Obingo, you take a pass. I'm not sure everyone else gets your act, but it's quite simple; the little leftist cell you're part of is still active, albeit much smaller. It can now be said with certainty that the attempt to cobble together a forum that welcomed Ds and others in civil discourse was a failure. The only problem I have is that I learned late in the game some your kin were Ds. Now that you've been exposed as a Kerry/Obama socialist pawn all anyone with a political independent streak needs to know about your governmental view is that it supports a bloated, dying government. Since you can't defend your god, or his appointments, it's you who insults and runs, not me. Your MO is now classic disruption. You're lucky I have no say in who stays or goes on this forum. If I did your ass would be out the door yesterday. That said, I urge you to find a more pleasant posting experience. One where your positions won't be challenged.

PS: Gear up your little Pennsylvania archers. They'll be needed in Obama's civilian peace corps :P

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-12-19   11:19:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: OliviaFNewton (#60)

It took Obamalamadingdong..

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:21:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Rotara (#63)

I think the shoes make the outfit.

I liked when things were fun!

"Wherever a Knave is not punished, an honest Man is laugh'd at." -- George Savile (1633-1695)
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." -- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

OliviaFNewton  posted on  2008-12-19   11:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: OliviaFNewton (#64)

LOL !!

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:34:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Old Friend, randge, Jethro Tull, PSUSA, a vast rightwing conspirator, OliviaFNewton, Rotara, ALL (#58)

contrasting views are one thing, but the constant arrogant expression of derision towards me, this forum and its members is quite another.

christine  posted on  2008-12-19   11:35:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Christine (#66)

the constant arrogant expression of derision towards me, this forum and its members is quite another.

You damned patriots are all the same ! ;-)

BTW that hitler video up there has me in stitches over here.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:39:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: christine (#66)

arrogant expression of derision towards me

It's unacceptable. They need to start their own forum. And that goes for about 3 others that constantly whine to you our about you.

this forum and its members is quite another.

They have other places to go, so why don't they?

AFAIK, they want to shut it down. These people are not individuals anymore. They are tools. Soldiers to usher in a fascist state. Well, screw them. Find a pleasant posting experience in a dirt pit.


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ABOUT THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO

Posted By: tenavision Date: Thursday, 18 December 2008, 12:55 p.m. I am re-reading again the books by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago." Each time I read them, I understand more about the way that Russia, once a Republic (like Amerika) under Czar Nicholas, decayed into a communistic dictatorship through the steps of democracy and socialism, a degeneration that is happening in Amerika right now. Remember Solzhenitsyn's warnings about the dangers of Communist aggression and the weakening of the moral fiber of the West

The majority of people were what they called Socialist Revolutionaries, so when the Bolshevik revolution happened, they were labeled that way (SR's) and after the bolshevik government became cemented in Russia, in 1917-1918, Lenin started rounding up all those who protested against anything at all and began to codify the laws to fill the jails. Most SR's were sentenced under Article 58 which seemed to be all inclusive..the Russian people could be arrested for the very slightest imagined infraction, most given a "tenner" (ten years in the gulag) or even shot.

Solzhenitsyn: "To put a person into 58 was the simplest of all methods of getting rid of him, to remove him quickly and forever."

In the first book, (there are 3 volumes) he lists 31 ways of torture that the zeks (prisoners) went through. I will list several here and under the list, some of the things that were done to achieve those listed goals. Remember that these tortures were when the people first got arrested, even before they could be transported to the "camps" themselves. The interrogators often kept prisoners past their trial dates, even as much as a year. Many died during "interrogation."

1. All interrogations and tortures had to be done at nighttime. (more vulnerable) 2. Foul language. (dehumanizing) 3. Psychological contrasts. One interrogator friendly and the other threatening. 4. Intimidation accompanied by enticements and promises at your family. 8. The lie. The interrogators could say anything. 9. Playing on one's affections and family. 10. Sound effects to deafen the zek. 11. Light effects. Extremely bright lights in the eyes. 12. The Box. A closet or packing case they put zeks in for hours and sometimes days. 13. A divisional pit. 10 ft. in depth, 6 ft in diameter, for days, as his cell and latrine, with 10 ounces of bread and water daily. 14. Stand on the knees for up to 48 hours. 15. Deprive them of water or food. 16. Sleeplessness. 17. Continual interrogation by shifts for days and days. 18. The bedbug infested boxes. 19. Punishment cells. Using starvation and cold, the zeks were worn down to make them sign anything. 20. Intensified hunger. No food or drink for days, or only 10 ounces of bread per day for months. 21. Frequent beatings. They used rubber truncheons, rubber mallets and small sandbags. 22. Strait jackets. 23. Breaking the prisoner's back. 24. Bridling, tied up to make zeks lie on their stomach like a wheel, your spine breaking, with no food or water for 2 days.

Some of the methods they used to make the prisoners do exactly what they wanted them to do were: making them lie face down in the corridors for several hours at a time, not able to raise their heads, or make a sound. Keeping a foot of icy water in the bottoms of the dungeon cells. Allowing no talking, heads down and hands clasped behind the back when going to or from anywhere.. Statements like "If you confess, you will get an easy camp instead of a death camp," interrogating with a loaded pistol on the desk, and aimed towards where the zek stood frozen at attention, "muzzles" on the windows so that there could be no fresh air come in to where they packed 200 (or more) people into a cell made for 10, and over all, the "thieves" who were part of the 'national treasure,' and could do anything to any prisoner they wanted to, including taking the best places in the cells by the windows, and the thieves always took responsibility for doling out the bread ration, eating most themselves and working with the jailers and stoolies to deprive the prisoners of everything they had of any value. Added to all the horrors, there was constant propaganda and indoctrination in the bolshevik political policies that every zek had to know.

Remember, the SR's never thought they did anything bad enough to offend the police people, the GPU, KGB, CHEKA, NKVD, and all the rest of the alphabet agencies they had which I can see mirrored in Amerika right now.

In Solzhenitsyn's own words, "What about the main thing in life, all it's riddles? If you want, I'll spell it out for you right now. Do not pursue what is illusory--property and position: all that is gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade, and is confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life--don't be afraid of misfortune and do not yearn after happiness, it is, after all, all the same: The bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet never fills the cup to overflowing. It is enough if you do not freeze in the cold and if thirst and hunger don't claw at your insides. If your back isn't broken, if your feet can walk, if both arms can bend, if both eyes see, and if both ears hear, then whom should you envy? And why? Our envy of others devours us most of all. Rub your eyes and purify your heart--and prize above all else in the world those who love you and who wish you well. Do not hurt them or scold them, and never part from any of them in anger; after all, you simply do not know: it might be your last act before your arrest and that will be how you are imprinted in their memory!"

While reading this first book I made a small list of statements that condensed some of the information I read pertaining to the prisoners. Here is the list:

Don't put people before everything else. The law is always right. Intent means action. My death today, yours tomorrow. Nobody cares except you. You must give your corpse or your labor. To win you must lose. Cheap goods are more expensive. Suicide is submission.

My intent in gathering and writing this information is to share with the people of Amerika what happened in their sister nation, Russia, during the takeover by the bolshevik communists in 1917. The details may be different for when the Amerikan gulag comes into full flower, but the feelings are the same. Solzhenitsyn later tried to get figures for the murdered and according to some of the official records, 65 million people were destroyed in the gulag. And the gulag of Russia is still operant today. They have become addicted to slave labor.

It is impossible for me to convey to others how intense must have been the psychological pressures upon the zeks when they were called out of a bed made of boards (after 18 hours of hard labor,) to stand outside in the bitter cold and snow, and be counted and recounted and then taken outside the camp into the forest to be shot by a drunken group of guards as sport for them.

What will happen in Amerika? How many will die?

tena

"Wherever a Knave is not punished, an honest Man is laugh'd at." -- George Savile (1633-1695)
"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." -- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

OliviaFNewton  posted on  2008-12-19   11:47:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: OliviaFNewton (#68)

GULAG ARCHIPELAGO

Very powerful.

I'm taking some time to re-read both that and Creature from Jekyll Island again here soon.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   11:53:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: christine, All (#66)

contrasting views are one thing, but the constant arrogant expression of derision towards me, this forum and its members is quite another.

I think we all know what the score is. I know I do. You've yet to do anything worthy of derision. I don't think you have it in you.

Besides, if they deride you and other members I cant figure out why they are even here. Is this the only board on the net??? Why associate with us ignorant rubes. Why not display their superhuman intelligence and oh-so-openmindedness on some other board instead of bitching when they arent able to convince too many people that their POV is the only correct one?

It seems Itisa1mosttoolate got fooled on this article. It happens to everyone sooner or later.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2008-12-19   11:53:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Rotara (#63)

That kind of messed-up worship and physical gyrations is straight out of Africa!!! The only thing missing was a roaring campfire and the poking of sharp spears at imaginary foes.

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2008-12-19   11:56:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: christine (#66)

What can you say?

We all want to let "one thousand flowers bloom," but there is a limit.

When you slap the mods in the face, don't be surprised to take one in the chops.

In his time, he was one VAST swine. Sayonara.

randge  posted on  2008-12-19   11:56:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: All (#67)

I think it’s important to understand that D’s & Rs practice divide and conquer. Vast and his imps are the Democrat version of this equation. They have divided us by class, sex, race, religion, generations and language groups. These multiple constituencies, each bought by some typically unconstitutional government entitlement, keeps the political system in power. Most on 4um have recognized this and rejected it. Vast hasn't. He believes in government and supports it. His clique have divided income from work, (devising programs that redistribute our wealth), individuals from responsibility (preferring to bury it in groups), responsibilities from freedom and punishment from crime. They are bankrupt politically, fiscally and morally.

They aren’t capable of defending any of this, so rather than stand and argue, they insult and run. Nothing would please them more than to damage this forum. That they haven’t is a testimony to individualism, rather than collectivism.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2008-12-19   11:57:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: PSUSA (#70) (Edited)

Besides, if they deride you and other members I cant figure out why they are even here. Is this the only board on the net??? Why associate with us ignorant rubes. Why not display their superhuman intelligence and oh-so- openmindedness on some other board instead of bitching when they arent able to convince too many people that their POV is the only correct one?

that's my question too. so i must conclude that it's either arrogance or a deliberate attempt to divide and conquer.

christine  posted on  2008-12-19   12:00:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: X-15 (#71)

That kind of messed-up worship and physical gyrations is straight out of Africa!!! The only thing missing was a roaring campfire and the poking of sharp spears at imaginary foes.

The Million Moron Ocorps should be a hoot !

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   12:02:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: PSUSA (#70)

Besides, if they deride you and other members I cant figure out why they are even here. Is this the only board on the net??? Why associate with us ignorant rubes. Why not display their superhuman intelligence and oh-so-openmindedness on some other board instead of bitching when they arent able to convince too many people that their POV is the only correct one?

Because they get everyone worked up and pissed off and then run back to Robin's forum and laugh amongst themselves. That's why I quit arguing with them. Why give them that pleasure? They are Obamatards and are exactly like the Bushbots and Klintoonoids before them. They will embrace and defend any and everything Obama does.

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." ~ William Colby, Director, CIA 1973–1976

The purpose of the legal system is to protect the elites from the wrath of those they plunder.- Elliott Jackalope

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2008-12-19   12:02:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Jethro Tull, noone222 (#73)

I think it’s important to understand that D’s & Rs practice divide and conquer. Vast and his imps are the Democrat version of this equation. They have divided us by class, sex, race, religion, generations and language groups. These multiple constituencies, each bought by some typically unconstitutional government entitlement, keeps the political system in power. Most on 4um have recognized this and rejected it. Vast hasn't. He believes in government and supports it. His clique have divided income from work, (devising programs that redistribute our wealth), individuals from responsibility (preferring to bury it in groups), responsibilities from freedom and punishment from crime. They are bankrupt politically, fiscally and morally.

They aren’t capable of defending any of this, so rather than stand and argue, they insult and run. Nothing would please them more than to damage this forum. That they haven’t is a testimony to individualism, rather than collectivism.

WELL DONE

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

Rotara  posted on  2008-12-19   12:03:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: OliviaFNewton (#68)

"What about the main thing in life, all it's riddles? If you want, I'll spell it out for you right now. Do not pursue what is illusory--property and position: all that is gained at the expense of your nerves decade after decade, and is confiscated in one fell night. Live with a steady superiority over life--don't be afraid of misfortune and do not yearn after happiness, it is, after all, all the same: The bitter doesn't last forever, and the sweet never fills the cup to overflowing. It is enough if you do not freeze in the cold and if thirst and hunger don't claw at your insides. If your back isn't broken, if your feet can walk, if both arms can bend, if both eyes see, and if both ears hear, then whom should you envy? And why? Our envy of others devours us most of all. Rub your eyes and purify your heart--and prize above all else in the world those who love you and who wish you well. Do not hurt them or scold them, and never part from any of them in anger; after all, you simply do not know: it might be your last act before your arrest and that will be how you are imprinted in their memory!"

Somebody ought to pin Dubya down and force him to read this, he needs to know what real compassion is all about and to rethink his fantasy of changing communist china by letting their crap be imported here. As for Obama, he has no soul and will be the downfall of what is left of America.

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2008-12-19   12:07:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Hayek Fan, rotara, christine (#76)

Because they get everyone worked up and pissed off and then run back to Robin's forum and laugh amongst themselves.

Never been there but that is what I assumed was happening. Their behavior reminded me too much of other forums where that was the rule, talk to your friends behind the scenes then come out derisively posting only to run back and laugh about it.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-19   12:08:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: X-15 (#71) (Edited)

That kind of messed-up worship and physical gyrations is straight out of Africa!!! The only thing missing was a roaring campfire and the poking of sharp spears at imaginary foes.

LOL! Dont forget the face paint and chicken feathers. And the ever-popular bone through the nose.

But you have to admit they look most impressive in their woodlands. So much more professional looking than loincloths.

Very military. I sure dont want to mess with them. They might beat me up.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2008-12-19   12:13:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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