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Title: Russian Professor Predicts Fall of U.S. in 2010
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
Published: Dec 29, 2008
Author: Andrew Osborn
Post Date: 2008-12-29 15:13:45 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 554
Comments: 61

MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.

"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.

Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."

Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.

Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.

The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."

In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.

"When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."

At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.

Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.

Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."

The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.

The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.

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#1. To: christine (#0)

"The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." ~ Mark Twain

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   15:15:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#0)

When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union.

Interesting scenario. Anyone know which states those might be?

winston_smith  posted on  2008-12-29   15:34:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: winston_smith (#2)

When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union.

Interesting scenario. Anyone know which states those might be?

Just speculation but the candidates that come immediately to mind:

Virginia
Pennsylvania
Mexifornia
Texas
Louisiana
Washington State

This would then precipitate greater reluctance and increased resistance at the various State levels to starve the federal leviathan.

This could get interesting, but I am not holding my breath.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   15:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: christine (#0)

Russian Professor Predicts Fall of U.S. in 2010

I wouldn't bet against it. 2009 is going to be a really bad year for everyone. 2010 may be when the stresses become so great that we can't survive it any longer.

Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2008-12-29   15:42:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Elliott Jackalope (#4)

Actually I think 2009 will be the worser year because the financial collapse will precipitate a lot of action - for good and ill.

The question is that will there be enough people awake enough to fight back and reclaim our lost liberty.

One of the requirements of maintaining liberty is the constant willingness to fight back.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   15:45:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine (#0)

I notice something VERY WRONG with the secession pattern here.

I can GUARANTEE you that S.C. will FIGHT to join the Southern segment rather than go into the Atlantic one. After all, they're the ones who started the fight the first time by firing on Fort Sumter.

TN, KY and WV don't really belong in the Atlantic either.

“I would give no thought of what the world might say of me, if I could only transmit to posterity the reputation of an honest man.” - Sam Houston

Sam Houston  posted on  2008-12-29   15:53:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: christine, Original_intent, lodwick (#0)

with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

I was buying it until he got to that part.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   16:09:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Sam Houston (#6)

As well Montana and Wyoming would likely go with the Republic of the Western United States. Colorado and New Mexico are as well are more Western than they are Central. Texas and California might go it alone or in alliance with the West. Texas is a bit of a Wild Card because although it went with the Confederacy in the First Civil War it has more in common with the culture of the West than of the South. One might well call Texas the eastern most state of the West.

Alaska would be more likely to go with Canada as culturally they have more in common.

Actually you could see a fracture with the Northeast being jettisoned by the South and West in unison. A lot of the West was settled by Confederates, such as some of my ancestors, fleeing "Reconstruction". So there is a lot of warmth and affection for the South in the West. My family is so "Old South" that we can thumb our noses at most of the snobs because we were here first (and I don't mean my Indian ancestors either). (BTW - The Cherokee Nation sided with the Confederacy and had their own Battle Flag.)

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   16:11:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: christine (#0)

The basic concept of the Professor is indeed something this government does not want to discuss.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   16:14:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: farmfriend (#7)

with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

I was buying it until he got to that part.

Agreed - see my above, but in any "break-up" Alaska would more likely become a Province of Canada as they are contiguous both geographically and, more importantly, culturally.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   16:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: farmfriend, shooters here (#7)

with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

I was buying it until he got to that part.

That one got my attention, as well as the one about Texas under Mexican control.

bHO has got this country so armed-up, I cannot tell you.

Right now natchezss.com has the best prices and stock that I can find - if anyone knows of a better place to shop, please post it.

Thank you.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2008-12-29   16:16:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Original_Intent (#8)

Actually you could see a fracture with the Northeast being jettisoned by the South and West in unison.

Be that the case, this Yankee hill billy aint staying in the Northeast.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   16:16:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: lodwick (#11)

That one got my attention, as well as the one about Texas under Mexican control.

Yeah if that were going to happen, based on immigration right now, you would have to include California, Arizona and NM.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   16:18:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#8)

(BTW - The Cherokee Nation sided with the Confederacy and had their own Battle Flag.)

You are just a fount of information.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   16:21:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: lodwick (#11)

7.62x39 out of stock.

Whaddja expect?

randge  posted on  2008-12-29   16:24:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: farmfriend (#14)

I am a tad olde to be moving and starting over again but I will move to a...majority white section...with a new constitution, one that has the first provision on how the government can be dissolved if the people so desire.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   16:24:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: lodwick (#11)

ammunitiontogo has stock and prices. BTW.

randge  posted on  2008-12-29   16:29:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Cynicom (#16)

And the second provision is "NO PRIVATELY OWNED CENTRAL BANKS". The fourth provision should be "CENTRAL BANKS THAT ARE PRIVATELY HELD ARE PROHIBITED". The sixth provision should be "SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED ARE PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL BANKS". The eighth provision should be "PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL BANKS SHALL NOT BE ESTABLISHED EVER". The tenth provision should be "OH, BY THE WAY, JUST IN CASE FUTURE SCREWHEADS DIDN'T GET THE MESSAGE, NO NO NO NO NO NO NO PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL BANKS SHALL EVER BE ESTABLISHED". The 12th provision should be "IN CASE IT'S NOT UTTERLY AND PERFECTLY CLEAR, NO PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL BANK OF ANY KIND IS ALLOWED". The 14th amendment should be "IF ANYONE EVEN BEGINS TO PROPOSE A PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL BANK OF ANY KIND, THEY SHALL BE STRAPPED TO A WOODEN TABLE AND DISASSEMBLED IN AS SLOW AND PAINFUL OF A STYLE AS CAN BE IMAGINED BY THE MOST SADISTIC BASTARDS CURRENTLY ALIVE, AS DETERMINED BY A POPULAR POLL TAKEN OF WHO CAN COME UP WITH THE MOST GUT-WRENCHING METHOD OF SLOW TORTURE CULMINATING IN EXECUTION POSSIBLE". And so on...

Gold and silver are REAL money, paper is but a promise.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2008-12-29   16:33:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: randge, shooters here (#15)

7.62x39 out of stock.

Whaddja expect?

If the 'foreign' troop scenario comes to pass, you'll have to get your AK food from them.

There are some ammo sellers on thehighroad.org - I've never had a bad transaction there.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2008-12-29   16:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Elliott Jackalope (#18)

The 14th amendment should be "IF ANYONE EVEN BEGINS TO PROPOSE A PRIVATELY HELD CENTRAL BANK OF ANY KIND, THEY SHALL BE STRAPPED TO A WOODEN TABLE AND DISASSEMBLED IN AS SLOW AND PAINFUL OF A STYLE AS CAN BE IMAGINED BY THE MOST SADISTIC BASTARDS CURRENTLY ALIVE, AS DETERMINED BY A POPULAR POLL TAKEN OF WHO CAN COME UP WITH THE MOST GUT-WRENCHING METHOD OF SLOW TORTURE CULMINATING IN EXECUTION POSSIBLE". And so

Amen brother and an Amen.

The first proviso should read that if the citizens do decide to dissolve the government, all elected and appointed bastards are to be shot on sight.

I want this to be perfectly clear.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   16:37:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: randge (#17)

Thanks for that source.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2008-12-29   16:37:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: christine (#0)

A breakup of the US seems more possible now than at anytime since 1860. Will god's darlings allow the disintegration? Will it be good for Jews? Your guess is as good as mine. They could bring millions of foreign troops--Israelis, NATO, Russians, Chinese, Latin Americans, etc. into the US to preserve the Union, thus, taking a page out of Abraham Lincoln's book. When Black Obama takes the oath of office, he plans to use the same Jew Book Lincoln did.

Life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think.

Zoroaster  posted on  2008-12-29   16:38:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Zoroaster (#22)

Will god's darlings allow the disintegration?

Not without blood running in the streets, ours if they have their way.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   16:41:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Original_Intent (#1)

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated." ~ Mark Twain

"I have been through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened." ~ Mark Twain


"It is like a trance. So what can break a trance? The only thing that can break the trance is the light of truth."
~ Canadian Philosopher John McMurtry as he comments on the psychological warfare that has afflicted us all

wudidiz  posted on  2008-12-29   17:06:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: christine (#0)

The U.S. isn't going to break up.

I've never yet met a foreiger who had any understanding of the U.S., and that includes this Russian goofball.

Have pug, will laugh.

Turtle  posted on  2008-12-29   17:13:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: christine (#0)

What are these white russians doing trying to tell us, the black men who built this country, what will happen in the future, when they have rioting in their streets and a youth population ready for anarchy?

Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. I am the one we've been waiting for. I am the change that we seek. Barack Obama

Obama4America  posted on  2008-12-29   17:25:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom (#16)

with a new constitution, one that has the first provision on how the government can be dissolved if the people so desire.

Don't we have that already in the Declaration of Independence?


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   17:25:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: farmfriend (#27)

Don't we have that already in the Declaration of Independence?

If enough states vote on it, they can dissolve the federal government.

Have pug, will laugh.

Turtle  posted on  2008-12-29   17:27:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Turtle, Cynicom, Original_Intent, lodwick, rotara (#28)

If enough states vote on it, they can dissolve the federal government.

My worry is a constitutional convention. They are pushing hard for that and you know whatever the intent is not what we would get. The powers that be would lock whatever they want into immovable stone!


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   17:30:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: farmfriend, Cynicom (#27)

with a new constitution, one that has the first provision on how the government can be dissolved if the people so desire.

Don't we have that already in the Declaration of Independence?

By peaceable means Dahlink.

Just as important, if not more so, is to establish a means to allow citizens to challenge unconstitutional actions short of taking up arms. A body senior to the Supreme Court which is responsible for enforcing the Constitution and nothing else. With the power to remove office holders from office for violating it.

As well I would propose a third chamber in the Congress whose sole responsibility is to pass on the Constitutionality of any new law and which has veto authority over any law found contrary to a strict reading of the written Constitution ONLY. None of this "Stare Decisis" Bullshit where the Supreme Court refers to a previous bad decision to validate a current bad decision.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   17:35:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: farmfriend, Turtle, Cynicom, lodwick, Rotara, christine (#29)

If enough states vote on it, they can dissolve the federal government.

My worry is a constitutional convention. They are pushing hard for that and you know whatever the intent is not what we would get. The powers that be would lock whatever they want into immovable stone!

Agreed. In the current climate of control by a foreign interest, the Whorehouse of Rotchild, any Constitution Convention WILL be used to wreak havoc upon individual liberties.

The Constitution is the one impediment that they have not been able to entirely circumvent. You can bet that somewhere in the background of this current push for a Constitutional Convention are agents of the Whorehouse of Rotchild.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   17:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Sam Houston, Christine, All (#6)

I'd like to know how he drew this map. It all smells of bullshit to me. Like a south Texas feedlot on a hot muggy July.

Civil war, yes. Chinese invasion, no. .

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2008-12-29   17:39:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Original_Intent (#30)

Yes I would love to see the SC act as intented by the framers and Congress themselves hold to their oath of office.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   17:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Original_Intent, Turtle, Cynicom, lodwick, Rotara, christine (#31)

You can bet that somewhere in the background of this current push for a Constitutional Convention are agents of the Whorehouse of Rotchild.

Of that there is no doubt. You know the Patriot Act would become part of any constitution and provisions would be added to make it easier to bring about the NAU. They would solidify all those things they have done that are currently unconstituional and could be reversed.


Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who

farmfriend  posted on  2008-12-29   17:42:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: farmfriend (#34)

Wait a minute....

The "government " is the enemy of the people.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT TOO MANY OF THE PEOPLE ARE ASLEEP.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   17:54:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: farmfriend (#33)

Yes I would love to see the SC act as intented by the framers and Congress themselves hold to their oath of office.

The problem was that the framers did not envision a situation where a foreign power, with the aid of domestic traitors, would establish a control so pervasive as to constitute a secret government controlling the open government.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   17:59:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: farmfriend, , Turtle, Cynicom, lodwick, Rotara, christine (#34)

You can bet that somewhere in the background of this current push for a Constitutional Convention are agents of the Whorehouse of Rotchild.

Of that there is no doubt. You know the Patriot Act would become part of any constitution and provisions would be added to make it easier to bring about the NAU. They would solidify all those things they have done that are currently unconstituional and could be reversed.

Exactly. And you could say good bye to the 2nd Amendment, which scares the crap out of our would-be masters and mistresses, as well as freedom of speech which would be redefined as "responsible speech" with the government deciding what is and is not "responsible". Criticism of the government of course would be irresponsible since the "luvvvvvvvvvvvvvv" us so much.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   18:02:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Original_Intent (#36)

The problem was that the framers did not envision a situation where a foreign power, with the aid of domestic traitors, would establish a control so pervasive as to constitute a secret government controlling the open government.

Indeed.

The Fathers had their own shortcomings in that they assumed those following them would also have good intentions. Now we see the fallacy of that assumption.

They also rejected term limits as they could not envision anyone making a lifelong career of politics. There were no evil men among the Fathers but they should have known such men would arise.

Cynicom  posted on  2008-12-29   18:05:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Cynicom (#38)

They also rejected term limits as they could not envision anyone making a lifelong career of politics. There were no evil men among the Fathers but they should have known such men would arise.

There were a few that bordered on venal though. I have seen it argued that Hamilton was beholden to London Bankers.

And the curious point of why did they make sure that Jefferson was shipped over to France while the Constitutional Convention took place?

The Founders were liberty minded men but there also some Patricians who sought to enshrine their own class as much as possible.

""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician

Original_Intent  posted on  2008-12-29   18:12:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Original_Intent (#31)

You can bet that somewhere in the background of this current push for a Constitutional Convention are agents of the Whorehouse of Rotchild.

If it happens, be sure to know that there will be PLENTY of dual-nationalists representing that slc there.

Iran Truth Now!

Lod  posted on  2008-12-29   18:12:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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