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Title: A Shriner Freemason admits to worshipping Lucifer (VIDEO) Source: . URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2OXuXTkBNQ Published: Jan 6, 2009 Author: , Post Date: 2009-01-06 03:08:46 by Artisan Ping List: *Bilderberg and NWO Watch* Subscribe to *Bilderberg and NWO Watch* Keywords: NoneViews: 179 Comments: 10
Freemasons: Their Own Words Convict Them "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it's splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! Morals and Dogma, page 321 Illustrious Albert Pike 33 degree Sovereign Grand Commander Supreme Council 33 degree, The Mother Supreme Council of the World The "must read" Occult "Bible" of Freemasonry by the "Pope" of Freemasonry... [http://freemasonrywatch.org/3index.html] "The apex of our teachings has been the rituals of MORALS AND DOGMA, written over a century ago." -Illustrious C. Fred Kleinknecht 33 degree Sovereign Grand Commander Supreme Council 33 degree The Mother Supreme Council of the World New Age Magazine, January 1989 The official organ of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry MANLY P HALL, "LOST KEYES OF FREEMASONRY" PG 48: "WHEN A MASON LEARNS THAT THE KEY IS THE PROPER APPLICATION OF THE DYNAMO OF LIVING POWER, THE SEETHING ENERGIES OF LUCIFER ARE IN HIS HANDS," Aleister Crowley was a proud satan worshipper and 33rd degree freemason, which go hand in hand. In one of his last letters before his death, freemason Thomas Jefferson wrote: "May it be to the world, what I believe it will be (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all), the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government." Founding Fathers Speak Out Against Freemasonry "We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth... For my part, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst; and to provide for it." -PATRICK HENRY John Quincy Adams, The Sixth President of The United States said: "I am prepared to complete the demonstration before God and man, that the Masonic oaths, obligations and penalties, cannot, by any possibility, be reconciled to the laws of morality, of Christianity, or of the land." J.Q. Adam's letter to Ed. Livingston. Samuel Adams, The Father of the Revolution said: "I am decidedly opposed to all secret societies whatever!" John Hancock, President of the Continental Congress said: "I am opposed to all secret societies." James Madison, The Fourth President of the United States said: "From the number and character of those who now support the charges against Freemasonry, I cannot doubt that it is at least susceptible of abuse, outweighing any advantages promised by its patrons." "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil: that put. darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." Isaiah 5:20 "For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places." Ephesians 6:12. "We wish it to be your rule first of all to tear away the mask from Freemasonry and to let it be seen as it really is." Pope Leo XIII HUMANUM GENUS ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON FREEMASONRY 1884 [It can be read online, here "Filled with the spirit of Satan, who knows how to transform himself into an angel of light, Freemasonry puts forward as its pretended aim the good of humanity. Paying a lip service to the authority of law, and even to the obligations of religion, it aims at the destruction of civil authority and the Christian priesthood, both of which it regards as the foes of human liberty." -Pope Leo XIII "Their Law is Untruth: Their God is the Devil and their Cult is Turpitude." -Pope Pius VIII "...the roots of modern apostasy lay in scientific atheism, dialectical materialism, rationalism, illuminism, laicism, and Freemasonry - which is the mother of them all." - Pope Pius XII, Address to the Seventh Week Pastoral Adaptation Conference in Italy (1958). [ 'Masonic Family Values'] Vatican Declaration on Masonic Associations- (1983) Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/masons1.htm EXCERPT FROM: HUMANUM GENUS (On Freemasonry) Pope Leo XIII Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII 20 April 1884 "34. Wherefore, not without cause do We use this occasion to state again what We have stated elsewhere, namely, that the Third Order of St. Francis, whose discipline We a little while ago prudently mitigated,[16] should be studiously promoted and sustained; for the whole object of this Order, as constituted by its founder, is to invite men to an imitation of Jesus Christ, to a love of the Church, and to the observance of all Christian virtues; and therefore it ought to be of great influence in suppressing the contagion of wicked societies. Let, therefore, this holy sodality be strengthened by a daily increase. Amongst the many benefits to be expected from it will be the great benefit of drawing the minds of men to liberty, fraternity, and equality of right; not such as the Freemasons absurdly imagine, but such as Jesus Christ obtained for the human race and St. Francis aspired to: the liberty, We mean, of sons of God, through which we may be free from slavery to Satan or to our passions, both of them most wicked masters; the fraternity whose origin is in God, the common Creator and Father of all; the equality which, founded on justice and charity, does not take away all distinctions among men, but, out of the varieties of life, of duties, and of pursuits, forms that union and that harmony which naturally tend to the benefit and dignity of society. (Amen!) Subscribe to *Bilderberg and NWO Watch*
Freemasons: Their Own Words Convict Them
"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with it's splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!
Morals and Dogma, page 321 Illustrious Albert Pike 33 degree Sovereign Grand Commander Supreme Council 33 degree, The Mother Supreme Council of the World The "must read" Occult "Bible" of Freemasonry by the "Pope" of Freemasonry... [http://freemasonrywatch.org/3index.html]
"The apex of our teachings has been the rituals of MORALS AND DOGMA, written over a century ago." -Illustrious C. Fred Kleinknecht 33 degree Sovereign Grand Commander Supreme Council 33 degree The Mother Supreme Council of the World New Age Magazine, January 1989 The official organ of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry
MANLY P HALL, "LOST KEYES OF FREEMASONRY" PG 48: "WHEN A MASON LEARNS THAT THE KEY IS THE PROPER APPLICATION OF THE DYNAMO OF LIVING POWER, THE SEETHING ENERGIES OF LUCIFER ARE IN HIS HANDS,"
Aleister Crowley was a proud satan worshipper and 33rd degree freemason, which go hand in hand.
In one of his last letters before his death, freemason Thomas Jefferson wrote: "May it be to the world, what I believe it will be (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all), the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government."
Founding Fathers Speak Out Against Freemasonry
"We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth... For my part, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst; and to provide for it." -PATRICK HENRY
John Quincy Adams, The Sixth President of The United States said: "I am prepared to complete the demonstration before God and man, that the Masonic oaths, obligations and penalties, cannot, by any possibility, be reconciled to the laws of morality, of Christianity, or of the land." J.Q. Adam's letter to Ed. Livingston.
Samuel Adams, The Father of the Revolution said: "I am decidedly opposed to all secret societies whatever!"
John Hancock, President of the Continental Congress said: "I am opposed to all secret societies."
James Madison, The Fourth President of the United States said: "From the number and character of those who now support the charges against Freemasonry, I cannot doubt that it is at least susceptible of abuse, outweighing any advantages promised by its patrons."
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil: that put. darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." Isaiah 5:20
"For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places." Ephesians 6:12.
"We wish it to be your rule first of all to tear away the mask from Freemasonry and to let it be seen as it really is." Pope Leo XIII HUMANUM GENUS ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON FREEMASONRY 1884 [It can be read online, here
"Filled with the spirit of Satan, who knows how to transform himself into an angel of light, Freemasonry puts forward as its pretended aim the good of humanity. Paying a lip service to the authority of law, and even to the obligations of religion, it aims at the destruction of civil authority and the Christian priesthood, both of which it regards as the foes of human liberty." -Pope Leo XIII
"Their Law is Untruth: Their God is the Devil and their Cult is Turpitude." -Pope Pius VIII
"...the roots of modern apostasy lay in scientific atheism, dialectical materialism, rationalism, illuminism, laicism, and Freemasonry - which is the mother of them all." - Pope Pius XII, Address to the Seventh Week Pastoral Adaptation Conference in Italy (1958). [ 'Masonic Family Values']
Vatican Declaration on Masonic Associations- (1983) Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/masons1.htm
EXCERPT FROM: HUMANUM GENUS (On Freemasonry) Pope Leo XIII Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII 20 April 1884 "34. Wherefore, not without cause do We use this occasion to state again what We have stated elsewhere, namely, that the Third Order of St. Francis, whose discipline We a little while ago prudently mitigated,[16] should be studiously promoted and sustained; for the whole object of this Order, as constituted by its founder, is to invite men to an imitation of Jesus Christ, to a love of the Church, and to the observance of all Christian virtues; and therefore it ought to be of great influence in suppressing the contagion of wicked societies. Let, therefore, this holy sodality be strengthened by a daily increase. Amongst the many benefits to be expected from it will be the great benefit of drawing the minds of men to liberty, fraternity, and equality of right; not such as the Freemasons absurdly imagine, but such as Jesus Christ obtained for the human race and St. Francis aspired to: the liberty, We mean, of sons of God, through which we may be free from slavery to Satan or to our passions, both of them most wicked masters; the fraternity whose origin is in God, the common Creator and Father of all; the equality which, founded on justice and charity, does not take away all distinctions among men, but, out of the varieties of life, of duties, and of pursuits, forms that union and that harmony which naturally tend to the benefit and dignity of society. (Amen!)
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#1. To: Artisan (#0) Sadly, my Shriner dad wants to be buried in his Masonic Apron. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx Countries Without a Draft circa 2001 (You'll need this soon if you have kids)RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 4:17:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #2. To: Artisan (#0) Masons believe that Lucifer (the Light Bearer) is the true God, and that the God described in the Old Testament is a dark, vengeful, and evil God. What it comes down to is that not many people understand who (or what) God truly is, and no living person can say with any real authority that they indeed know the truth. One thing that IS obvious however, is that any person or group which worships an entity possessing a name that personifies evil, is not on the side of Truth and Light. There is something to be considered in regards to the name Lucifer, in that the Latin translation of the name does mean "Light-Bringer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring") [from Wiki], and that the term was used in the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible in reference to the morning star, ie. the planet Venus. Being that modern understanding of the name implies a satantic entity however, you'd think the Masons would have found some other name for their Deity. "The real deal is this: the royalty controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen FormerLurker posted on 2009-01-06 16:25:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #3. To: FormerLurker (#2) Lucifer is found only one time in the Bible. It is a latin word that somehow found it's way into the Old Testament. How did that happen? It only occurs in Isaiah Ch 14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. He was a man (the king of Babylon) and he died. So they worship a dead king of babylon??? . Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes. PSUSA posted on 2009-01-06 16:53:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #4. To: PSUSA (#3) He was a man (the king of Babylon) and he died. So they worship a dead king of babylon??? In the corrupted NIV Bible it calls Jesus the same thing. Old Friend posted on 2009-01-06 16:56:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #5. To: IndieTX (#1) Sadly, my Shriner dad wants to be buried in his Masonic Apron. I know many Masons here in DE, and they seem to enjoy the fraternity for different reasons, but I'd have to say that none of them are about Lucifer worship. If true then it is incidental and not a primary reason for membership. Mainly because their belief in any religion was superficial and obligatory so, it doesn't really matter (to them) which god they pay lip service to.... Some guys enjoy the intrigue because they're workers in widget factories and it's the only excitement in their dull lives. And when Catholics write anonymous letters accusing Masons of all sorts of bad stuff (Catholic fanatics join the Knights of Columbus) it positively thrills these nebbish types even though it isn't likely to have any truth to it. One man I know bought a beautiful and expensive Masonic grandfather clock and his Catholic wife wouldn't allow him to bring it in the house. Well, for 20 yrs that was the excitement of Masonic membership for him, fighting with his disapproving wife while one of his daughters sided with him. (The other daughter sided with Mom and they were both "good Catholics". In other words, everyone had their reasons for believing in something and all were the wrong reasons!) Another squirrel claims that he was Eisenhower's right hand man and he rode all over Europe carrying secret dispatches in uniform carrying a .45 automatic, you know one of those "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill" you types. It was obvious that this sad case is another Walter Mitty, and I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't so obnoxious. That seems to be the types who are attracted to the Masons. The guys who live in some James Bond fantasy in their minds, or the guys who believe it will help them with business connections or the guys who delight in being cast in some shadowy light and belonging to some "secret elite" to the irritation of friends and family. If the Masonic conspiracy is indeed involved in serious stuff at higher levels (P2-Vatican Bank) these low level dues paying functionaries know nothing of it. (For a great read on the subject I recommend Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry by John J. Robinson) Regarding your father's desire to be buried in his apron, he is in good company. Many pillars of every community have had Masonic funerals, and it deserves as much respect as a religious interment. (which to my cynical thinking isn't saying much) "MY GRANDFATHER'S WORK WAS DEW DEW!___Victor Frankenstein HOUNDDAWG posted on 2009-01-06 17:06:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #6. To: PSUSA (#3) Lucifer is found only one time in the Bible. It is a latin word that somehow found it's way into the Old Testament. How did that happen? It only occurs in Isaiah Ch 14 Actually twice. There is a reference in Isaiah as you mention, and another in Peter 1:19. This is what Wiki has to say on the topic... The Latin Vulgate version of the Bible used this word twice to refer to the Morning Star: once in Peter 1:19 to translate the Greek word [Greek characters not printable on 4um](Phosphoros), which has exactly the same literal meaning of "Light-Bringer" that "Lucifer" has in Latin; and once in Isaiah 14:12 to translate [Greek characters not printable on 4um](Hêll), which also means "Morning Star". In the latter passage the title of "Morning Star" is given to the tyrannous Babylonian king, who the prophet says is destined to fall. This passage was later applied to the prince of the demons, and so the name "Lucifer" came to be used for Satan, and was popularized in works such as Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost, but for English speakers the greatest influence has been its use in the King James Version (more modern English versions translate the term as "Morning Star" or "Day Star"). New American Standard Bible - Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. Hmmm. In searching for that I've found a few tidbits that you might find interesting. It appears that the word Lucifer has been misapplied over the past 1000 years. The Name "Lucifer"Lucifer: The Origin of the Word So perhaps there is more to the story than one might see at first glance. Historical info usually reveals more to a story than simple "conventional wisdom". "The real deal is this: the royalty controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen FormerLurker posted on 2009-01-06 17:43:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #7. To: FormerLurker (#6) In the first link he says lucifer is Satan. This cant be. Satan didn't die, he is not in a grave. But it does shine a light on the shenanigans that the translators perpetrated. Isaiah 14:4 states this is referring to the Babylonian king. 4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! Here is another explanation: THE LIFE AND MISSION OF SATAN THE SERPENT DEVIL bible-truths.com/lake9.html Click for Privacy and Preparedness files Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes. PSUSA posted on 2009-01-06 18:15:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #8. To: FormerLurker (#6) If Lucifer is a correct rendering in Isaiah 14:12, then it is correct in 2 Peter 1:19 also (just as Jerome translates it). And so we have the first place where scripture calls Yeshua Lucifer. But that is not the only place. Interesting link. Thanks! Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx Countries Without a Draft circa 2001 (You'll need this soon if you have kids)RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 18:24:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #9. To: PSUSA (#7) (Edited) But it does shine a light on the shenanigans that the translators perpetrated. Yep! It would certainly appear to be the case. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx Countries Without a Draft circa 2001 (You'll need this soon if you have kids)RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 18:25:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #10. To: HOUNDDAWG (#5) it deserves as much respect as a religious interment. (which to my cynical thinking isn't saying much) The way I feel these days, I have to acknowledge that point. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx Countries Without a Draft circa 2001 (You'll need this soon if you have kids)RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 18:26:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Top Page Up Full Thread Page Down Bottom/Latest
Sadly, my Shriner dad wants to be buried in his Masonic Apron.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition "Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx Countries Without a Draft circa 2001 (You'll need this soon if you have kids)RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP
Countries Without a Draft circa 2001 (You'll need this soon if you have kids)
RUN SILENT, RUN DEEP
IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 4:17:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Masons believe that Lucifer (the Light Bearer) is the true God, and that the God described in the Old Testament is a dark, vengeful, and evil God. What it comes down to is that not many people understand who (or what) God truly is, and no living person can say with any real authority that they indeed know the truth. One thing that IS obvious however, is that any person or group which worships an entity possessing a name that personifies evil, is not on the side of Truth and Light. There is something to be considered in regards to the name Lucifer, in that the Latin translation of the name does mean "Light-Bringer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring") [from Wiki], and that the term was used in the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible in reference to the morning star, ie. the planet Venus. Being that modern understanding of the name implies a satantic entity however, you'd think the Masons would have found some other name for their Deity.
What it comes down to is that not many people understand who (or what) God truly is, and no living person can say with any real authority that they indeed know the truth.
One thing that IS obvious however, is that any person or group which worships an entity possessing a name that personifies evil, is not on the side of Truth and Light.
There is something to be considered in regards to the name Lucifer, in that the Latin translation of the name does mean "Light-Bringer" (from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring") [from Wiki], and that the term was used in the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible in reference to the morning star, ie. the planet Venus.
Being that modern understanding of the name implies a satantic entity however, you'd think the Masons would have found some other name for their Deity.
FormerLurker posted on 2009-01-06 16:25:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Lucifer is found only one time in the Bible. It is a latin word that somehow found it's way into the Old Testament. How did that happen? It only occurs in Isaiah Ch 14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. He was a man (the king of Babylon) and he died. So they worship a dead king of babylon??? .
It only occurs in Isaiah Ch 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
He was a man (the king of Babylon) and he died.
So they worship a dead king of babylon???
.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.
PSUSA posted on 2009-01-06 16:53:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
He was a man (the king of Babylon) and he died. So they worship a dead king of babylon??? In the corrupted NIV Bible it calls Jesus the same thing.
He was a man (the king of Babylon) and he died. So they worship a dead king of babylon???
In the corrupted NIV Bible it calls Jesus the same thing.
Old Friend posted on 2009-01-06 16:56:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Sadly, my Shriner dad wants to be buried in his Masonic Apron. I know many Masons here in DE, and they seem to enjoy the fraternity for different reasons, but I'd have to say that none of them are about Lucifer worship. If true then it is incidental and not a primary reason for membership. Mainly because their belief in any religion was superficial and obligatory so, it doesn't really matter (to them) which god they pay lip service to.... Some guys enjoy the intrigue because they're workers in widget factories and it's the only excitement in their dull lives. And when Catholics write anonymous letters accusing Masons of all sorts of bad stuff (Catholic fanatics join the Knights of Columbus) it positively thrills these nebbish types even though it isn't likely to have any truth to it. One man I know bought a beautiful and expensive Masonic grandfather clock and his Catholic wife wouldn't allow him to bring it in the house. Well, for 20 yrs that was the excitement of Masonic membership for him, fighting with his disapproving wife while one of his daughters sided with him. (The other daughter sided with Mom and they were both "good Catholics". In other words, everyone had their reasons for believing in something and all were the wrong reasons!) Another squirrel claims that he was Eisenhower's right hand man and he rode all over Europe carrying secret dispatches in uniform carrying a .45 automatic, you know one of those "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill" you types. It was obvious that this sad case is another Walter Mitty, and I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't so obnoxious. That seems to be the types who are attracted to the Masons. The guys who live in some James Bond fantasy in their minds, or the guys who believe it will help them with business connections or the guys who delight in being cast in some shadowy light and belonging to some "secret elite" to the irritation of friends and family. If the Masonic conspiracy is indeed involved in serious stuff at higher levels (P2-Vatican Bank) these low level dues paying functionaries know nothing of it. (For a great read on the subject I recommend Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry by John J. Robinson) Regarding your father's desire to be buried in his apron, he is in good company. Many pillars of every community have had Masonic funerals, and it deserves as much respect as a religious interment. (which to my cynical thinking isn't saying much)
I know many Masons here in DE, and they seem to enjoy the fraternity for different reasons, but I'd have to say that none of them are about Lucifer worship.
If true then it is incidental and not a primary reason for membership. Mainly because their belief in any religion was superficial and obligatory so, it doesn't really matter (to them) which god they pay lip service to....
Some guys enjoy the intrigue because they're workers in widget factories and it's the only excitement in their dull lives. And when Catholics write anonymous letters accusing Masons of all sorts of bad stuff (Catholic fanatics join the Knights of Columbus) it positively thrills these nebbish types even though it isn't likely to have any truth to it.
One man I know bought a beautiful and expensive Masonic grandfather clock and his Catholic wife wouldn't allow him to bring it in the house. Well, for 20 yrs that was the excitement of Masonic membership for him, fighting with his disapproving wife while one of his daughters sided with him. (The other daughter sided with Mom and they were both "good Catholics". In other words, everyone had their reasons for believing in something and all were the wrong reasons!)
Another squirrel claims that he was Eisenhower's right hand man and he rode all over Europe carrying secret dispatches in uniform carrying a .45 automatic, you know one of those "I could tell you but then I'd have to kill" you types. It was obvious that this sad case is another Walter Mitty, and I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't so obnoxious.
That seems to be the types who are attracted to the Masons. The guys who live in some James Bond fantasy in their minds, or the guys who believe it will help them with business connections or the guys who delight in being cast in some shadowy light and belonging to some "secret elite" to the irritation of friends and family.
If the Masonic conspiracy is indeed involved in serious stuff at higher levels (P2-Vatican Bank) these low level dues paying functionaries know nothing of it. (For a great read on the subject I recommend Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry by John J. Robinson)
Regarding your father's desire to be buried in his apron, he is in good company. Many pillars of every community have had Masonic funerals, and it deserves as much respect as a religious interment. (which to my cynical thinking isn't saying much)
"MY GRANDFATHER'S WORK WAS DEW DEW!___Victor Frankenstein
HOUNDDAWG posted on 2009-01-06 17:06:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Lucifer is found only one time in the Bible. It is a latin word that somehow found it's way into the Old Testament. How did that happen? It only occurs in Isaiah Ch 14 Actually twice. There is a reference in Isaiah as you mention, and another in Peter 1:19. This is what Wiki has to say on the topic... The Latin Vulgate version of the Bible used this word twice to refer to the Morning Star: once in Peter 1:19 to translate the Greek word [Greek characters not printable on 4um](Phosphoros), which has exactly the same literal meaning of "Light-Bringer" that "Lucifer" has in Latin; and once in Isaiah 14:12 to translate [Greek characters not printable on 4um](Hêll), which also means "Morning Star". In the latter passage the title of "Morning Star" is given to the tyrannous Babylonian king, who the prophet says is destined to fall. This passage was later applied to the prince of the demons, and so the name "Lucifer" came to be used for Satan, and was popularized in works such as Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost, but for English speakers the greatest influence has been its use in the King James Version (more modern English versions translate the term as "Morning Star" or "Day Star"). New American Standard Bible - Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. Hmmm. In searching for that I've found a few tidbits that you might find interesting. It appears that the word Lucifer has been misapplied over the past 1000 years. The Name "Lucifer"Lucifer: The Origin of the Word So perhaps there is more to the story than one might see at first glance. Historical info usually reveals more to a story than simple "conventional wisdom".
Lucifer is found only one time in the Bible. It is a latin word that somehow found it's way into the Old Testament. How did that happen? It only occurs in Isaiah Ch 14
Actually twice. There is a reference in Isaiah as you mention, and another in Peter 1:19. This is what Wiki has to say on the topic...
The Latin Vulgate version of the Bible used this word twice to refer to the Morning Star: once in Peter 1:19 to translate the Greek word [Greek characters not printable on 4um](Phosphoros), which has exactly the same literal meaning of "Light-Bringer" that "Lucifer" has in Latin; and once in Isaiah 14:12 to translate [Greek characters not printable on 4um](Hêll), which also means "Morning Star". In the latter passage the title of "Morning Star" is given to the tyrannous Babylonian king, who the prophet says is destined to fall. This passage was later applied to the prince of the demons, and so the name "Lucifer" came to be used for Satan, and was popularized in works such as Dante Alighieri's Inferno and John Milton's Paradise Lost, but for English speakers the greatest influence has been its use in the King James Version (more modern English versions translate the term as "Morning Star" or "Day Star").
New American Standard Bible - Peter 1:19
So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
The Name "Lucifer"Lucifer: The Origin of the Word
So perhaps there is more to the story than one might see at first glance. Historical info usually reveals more to a story than simple "conventional wisdom".
FormerLurker posted on 2009-01-06 17:43:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
In the first link he says lucifer is Satan. This cant be. Satan didn't die, he is not in a grave. But it does shine a light on the shenanigans that the translators perpetrated. Isaiah 14:4 states this is referring to the Babylonian king. 4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! Here is another explanation: THE LIFE AND MISSION OF SATAN THE SERPENT DEVIL bible-truths.com/lake9.html
Isaiah 14:4 states this is referring to the Babylonian king.
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Here is another explanation: THE LIFE AND MISSION OF SATAN THE SERPENT DEVIL bible-truths.com/lake9.html
PSUSA posted on 2009-01-06 18:15:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
If Lucifer is a correct rendering in Isaiah 14:12, then it is correct in 2 Peter 1:19 also (just as Jerome translates it). And so we have the first place where scripture calls Yeshua Lucifer. But that is not the only place. Interesting link. Thanks!
If Lucifer is a correct rendering in Isaiah 14:12, then it is correct in 2 Peter 1:19 also (just as Jerome translates it). And so we have the first place where scripture calls Yeshua Lucifer. But that is not the only place.
Interesting link. Thanks!
IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 18:24:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
But it does shine a light on the shenanigans that the translators perpetrated. Yep! It would certainly appear to be the case.
But it does shine a light on the shenanigans that the translators perpetrated.
Yep! It would certainly appear to be the case.
IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 18:25:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
it deserves as much respect as a religious interment. (which to my cynical thinking isn't saying much) The way I feel these days, I have to acknowledge that point.
it deserves as much respect as a religious interment. (which to my cynical thinking isn't saying much)
The way I feel these days, I have to acknowledge that point.
IndieTX posted on 2009-01-06 18:26:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply