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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: Prayer is worthless, and I can prove it
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 13, 2009
Author: Hagee
Post Date: 2009-01-13 20:40:35 by Hagee
Keywords: None
Views: 750
Comments: 44

What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers. And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.

If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

In Matthew 17:20 Jesus says:

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain,'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

If "nothing will be impossible to you", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement "nothing will be impossible to you" becomes "lots of things will be impossible to you," and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

In Matthew 21:21:

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain,'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

If "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note again that there is not a non-literal way to interpret "you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer", unless you replace "whatever" with "nothing" or "little."

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 18.

#2. To: Hagee (#0)

Jabber on all you want. He explains why some do not have their prayers answered and some do. I don't say that "I believe".... I know. And the doctors who have examined me have said that I am a miracle and that medicine may never be able to explain my blessing. It has been suggested by several Pastors and others that I take the time to write a book and maybe some day I will get off my lazy a$$ and do just that. To put it simply, I have already experienced that which we are only supposed to experience once and any doctor who examines my medical history will tell you it is not possible. I pray He opens your eyes before it is too late.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2009-01-13   20:46:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#2)

I've noticed that the deeply disturbed and brainwashed people always always try to resort to the most petty personal attacks when someone has the nerve to say something they disagree with. Don't get upset because I correctly pointed out that prayer is useless using irrefutable logic. It's not my fault your mind is so feeble you believe all the fairy tales you were told as a child. But let me ask you something, is a 0.01% success rate on answered prayers (it's probably much, much lower, but I'm being generous) something to be happy with? Have you ever thought that .01% of prayers that actually do come true are things that would have happened anyway, and in whatever happened to you? Is it just possible that since almost no prayers are answers, "god" really doesn't give two shits what you say?

Hagee  posted on  2009-01-13   21:16:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Hagee (#7)

What a cheap shot argument.

Why don't you leave the nice folks who pray here alone?

They ain't doing you no harm.

Get a life. Go surf Chix with Dix.

randge  posted on  2009-01-13   23:02:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: randge, old Fud (#17)

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/07/prayer_still_us.html

PRAYER STILL USELESS

Why do they bother? Yet another group has performed a study into intercessory prayer and yet again has concluded that prayer doesn’t do anything:

Praying for patients undergoing heart operations does not improve their outcomes, a US study suggests.

A study found those who were prayed for were as likely to have a setback in hospital, be re-admitted, or die within six months as those not prayed for.

Duh! Numerous other studies have replicated this same (lack of) result. Praying doesn’t change anything, or only does when subjects thought they were in the prayer group (ie it is a placebo).

I’m not saying that there aren’t studies that show prayer has an effect. There have been several such studies, but eventually they are shown to be flawed, and/or when the controls are tightened the effect disappears, and/or they have been shown to be fraudulent. I give three examples below. Byrd

One of the most frequently quoted “successful” studies was by Randolph Byrd of the San Francisco General Medical Center:

To evaluate the effects of IP (intercessory prayer) in a coronary care unit (CCU) population, a prospective randomized double-blind protocol was followed. Over ten months, 393 patients admitted to the CCU were randomized, after signing informed consent, to an intercessory prayer group (192 patients) or to a control group (201 patients).

[Snip]

The control patients required ventilatory assistance, antibiotics, and diuretics more frequently than patients in the IP group. These data suggest that intercessory prayer to the Judeo-Christian God has a beneficial therapeutic effect in patients admitted to a CCU.

Byrd claimed that the prayer group did better than the control in six categories.

But there were severe methodological problems with this study. First, no significant differences were found among the other twenty categories being evaluated, including mortality, despite explicit prayers for prevention of death. Byrd had cherry-picked the six categories that happened to support his hypothesis and ignored the others.

Second, in looking at outcomes in those six categories that did support his conclusion, Byrd ignored the interrelationships between the categories. For example, the development of congestive heart failure automatically leads to the need for diuretics; the development of pneumonia automatically requires the use of antibiotics. Since these were not independent events he hadn’t really even reported success in six categories; three at most.

And third, there was no significant difference in length of recovery period, despite explicit prayers for a rapid recovery. This is what counts as success, apparently.

Hagee  posted on  2009-01-13   23:11:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 18.

#24. To: Hagee (#18)

I'm still waiting for you to tell us about the injuries and what the prognosis would be for a person with that type of injury. No response?

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2009-01-13 23:47:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 18.

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