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Title: The Suffering Servant: Isaiah 53 and Why Isaiah 53 cannot refer to the nation of Israel, or anyone else, but must be the Messiah
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.chaim.org/nation.htm
Published: Jan 21, 2009
Author: www.chaim.org
Post Date: 2009-01-21 17:38:16 by AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt
Keywords: None
Views: 213
Comments: 8

The Suffering Servant: Isaiah 53

This amazing passage from the Hebrew Prophets was written over 700 years before the birth of Jesus. It is found in Jewish Bibles today, though it is left out of the weekly synagogue readings, as are many other texts of the Bible. When people read Isaiah 53 without knowing which part of the Bible it comes from, they often wrongly assume is from the New Testament. Did Isaiah foresee the sufferings of Jesus to pay for our sins? Though many modern rabbis --and some ancient rabbis-- say the sufferings described are those of the nation of Israel, most ancient rabbis said it refers to Messiah's sufferings. We have provided a link to some of the great rabbinic sources which interpreted the passage as referring to the Messiah, even though they did not believe in Jesus. We have also provided a link demonstrating why Isaiah 53 cannot refer to Israel and who it must necessarily refer to. You will also find some other interesting links below. The passage actually begins with the end of Isaiah chapter 52. Read it for yourself.

52:13 Behold, my servant shall prosper,

he shall be exalted and lifted up,

and shall be very high.

52:14 As many were astonished at him ­­

his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,

and his form beyond that of the sons of men ­­

52:15 so shall he sprinkle many nations;

kings shall shut their mouths because of him;

for that which has not been told them they shall see,

and that which they have not heard they shall understand.

53:1 Who has believed our message?

And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,

and like a root out of dry ground;

he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him,

and no beauty that we should desire him.

53:3 He was despised and rejected by men;

a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;

and as one from whom men hide their faces

he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs

and carried our sorrows;

yet we esteemed him stricken,

smitten by God, and afflicted.

53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,

he was bruised for our iniquities;

upon him was the chastisement that made us whole,

and with his stripes we are healed.

53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;

we have turned every one to his own way;

and the LORD has laid on him

the iniquity of us all.

53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,

yet he opened not his mouth;

like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,

and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb,

so he opened not his mouth.

53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away;

and as for his generation, who considered

that he was cut off out of the land of the living,

stricken for the transgression of my people?

53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked

and with a rich man in his death,

although he had done no violence,

and there was no deceit in his mouth.

53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him;

he has put him to grief;

when he makes himself an offering for sin,

he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days;

the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand;

53:11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied;

by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,

make many to be accounted righteous;

and he shall bear their iniquities.

53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great,

and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;

because he poured out his soul to death,

and was numbered with the transgressors;

yet he bore the sin of many,

and made intercession for the transgressors.

www.chaim.org/isaiah53.htm


Why Isaiah 53 cannot refer to the nation of Israel, or anyone else, but must be the Messiah

1. The servant of Isaiah 53 is an innocent and guiltless sufferer. Israel is never described as sinless. Isaiah 1:4 says of the nation: "Alas sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity. A brood of evildoers, children who are corrupters!" He then goes on in the same chapter to characterize Judah as Sodom, Jerusalem as a harlot, and the people as those whose hands are stained with blood (verses 10, 15, and 21). What a far cry from the innocent and guiltless sufferer of Isaiah 53 who had "done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth!"

2. The prophet said: "It pleased the LORD to bruise him." Has the awful treatment of the Jewish people (so contrary, by the way, to the teaching of Jesus to love everyone) really been God's pleasure, as is said of the suffering of the servant in Isaiah 53:10 ? If, as some rabbis contend, Isaiah 53 refers to the holocaust, can we really say of Israel's suffering during that horrible period, "It pleased the LORD to bruise him?" Yet it makes perfect sense to say that God was pleased to have Messiah suffer and die as our sin offering to provide us forgiveness and atonement.

3. The person mentioned in this passage suffers silently and willingly. Yet all people, even Israelites, complain when they suffer! Brave Jewish men and women fought in resistance movements against Hitler. Remember the Vilna Ghetto Uprising? Remember the Jewish men who fought on the side of the allies? Can we really say Jewish suffering during the holocaust and during the preceding centuries was done silently and willingly?

4. The figure described in Isaiah 53 suffers, dies, and rises again to atone for his people's sins. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 53:10 for "sin-offering" is "asham," which is a technical term meaning "sin-offering." See how it is used in Leviticus chapters 5 and 6. Isaiah 53 describes a sinless and perfect sacrificial lamb who takes upon himself the sins of others so that they might be forgiven. Can anyone really claim that the terrible suffering of the Jewish people, however undeserved and unjust, atones for the sins of the world? Whoever Isaiah 53 speaks of, the figure described suffers and dies in order to provide a legal payment for sin so that others can be forgiven. This cannot be true of the Jewish people as a whole, or of any other mere human.

5. It is the prophet who is speaking in this passage. He says: "who has believed our message." The term "message" usually refers to the prophetic message, as it does in Jeremiah 49:14. Also, when we understand the Hebrew parallelism of verse 1, we see "Who has believed our message" as parallel to "to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed." The "arm of the Lord" refers to God's powerful act of salvation. So the message of the speaker is the message of a prophet declaring what God has done to save his people.

6. The prophet speaking is Isaiah himself, who says the sufferer was punished for "the transgression of my people," according to verse 8. Who are the people of Isaiah? Israel. So the sufferer of Isaiah 53 suffered for Israel. So how could he be Israel?

7. The figure of Isaiah 53 dies and is buried according to verses 8 and 9. The people of Israel have never died as a whole. They have been out of the land on two occasions and have returned, but they have never ceased to be among the living. Yet Jesus died, was buried, and rose again.

8. If Isaiah 53 cannot refer to Israel, how about Isaiah himself? But Isaiah said he was a sinful man of unclean lips (Isaiah 6:5-7). And Isaiah did not die as an atonement for our sins. Could it have been Jeremiah? Jeremiah 11:19 does echo the words of Isaiah 53. Judah rejected and despised the prophet for telling them the truth. Leaders of Judah sought to kill Jeremiah, and so the prophet describes himself in these terms. But they were not able to kill the prophet. Certainly Jeremiah did not die to atone for the sins of his people. What of Moses? Could the prophet have been speaking of him? But Moses wasn't sinless either. Moses sinned and was forbidden from entering the promised land (Numbers 20:12). Moses indeed attempted to offer himself as a sacrifice in place of the nation, but God did not allow him to do so (Exodus 32:30-35). Moses, Isaiah, and Jeremiah were all prophets who gave us a glimpse of what Messiah, the ultimate prophet, would be like, but none of them quite fit Isaiah 53.

So what can we conclude? Isaiah 53 cannot refer to the nation of Israel, nor to Isaiah, nor to Moses, nor another prophet. And if not to Moses, certainly not to any lesser man. Yet Messiah would be greater than Moses. As the rabbinic writing "Yalkut" said: "Who art thou, O great mountain? (Zech. iv.7) This refers to the King Messiah. And why does he call him`the great mountain?' because he is greater than the patriarchs, as it is said, `My servant shall be high, and lifted up, and lofty exceedingly' --he will be higher than Abraham...lifted up above Moses...loftier then the ministering angels..." (Quoted in The Fifty-third Chapter of Isaiah According to the Jewish Interpreters, Ktav Publishing House, 1969, Volume 2, page 9.)

Of whom does Isaiah speak? He speaks of the Messiah, as many ancient rabbis concluded. The second verse of Isaiah 53 makes it crystal clear. The figure grows up as "a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground." The shoot springing up is beyond reasonable doubt a reference to the Messiah, and, in fact, it is a common Messianic reference in Isaiah and elsewhere. The Davidic dynasty was to be cut down in judgement like a felled tree, but it was promised to Israel that a new sprout would shoot up from the stump. The Messiah was to be that sprout. Several Hebrew words were used to refer to this undeniably Messianic image. All the terms are related in meaning and connected in the Messianic texts where they were used. Isaiah 11, which virtually all rabbis agreed refers to the Messiah, used the words "shoot" (hoter) and branch (netser) to describe the Messianic King. Isaiah 11:10 called Messiah the "Root (shoresh) of Jesse," Jesse being David's father. Isaiah 53 described the suffering servant as a root (shoresh) from dry ground, using the very same metaphor and the very same word as Isaiah 11. We also see other terms used for the same concept, such as branch (tsemach) in Jeremiah 23:5, in Isaiah 4:2 and also in the startling prophecies of Zechariah 3:8 and 6:12.

Beyond doubt, Isaiah 52:13-53:12 refers to Messiah Jesus. He is the one highly exalted before whom kings shut their mouths. Messiah is the shoot who sprung up from the fallen Davidic dynasty. He became the King of Kings. He provided the ultimate atonement.

Isaiah 52:13 states that it would be the Messiah who will "sprinkle" many nations. What does that mean? What was Messiah's ministry to be toward the nations? The word translated "sprinkle" or sometimes "startle" is found several other places in the OT. The Hebrew word is found in Leviticus 4:6; 8:11; 14:7, and Numbers 8:7, 19:18-19. The references cited all pertain to priestly sprinklings of the blood of atonement, the anointing oil of consecration, and the ceremonial water used to cleanse the unclean. Is Isaiah 52:13 telling us that the Messiah will act as a priest who applies atonement, anoints to consecrate, sprinkles to make clean? (This vision of the Messiah as both priest and king is also found in Zechariah 6:12-13). But, priests were to come from the tribe of Levi and Kings from the tribe of Judah! What kind of priest is he? David told us Messiah would be a priest of the order of Melchizedek (see Psalm 110 and Hebrews chapters 7-9).

Isaiah 53 must be understood as referring to the coming Davidic King, the Messiah. King Messiah was prophesied to suffer and die to pay for our sins and then rise again. He would serve as a priest to the nations of the world and apply the blood of atonement to cleanse those who believe. There is one alone who this can refer to, Jesus, whom millions refer to as Christ, which is from the Greek word for Messiah. Those who confess him are his children, his promised offspring, the spoils of his victory. According to the testimony of the Jewish Apostles, Jesus died for our sins, rose again, ascended to the right hand of God, and he now serves as our great High Priest who cleanses us of sin and our King. Jesus rules over his people and is in the process of conquering the Gentiles. The first century Jewish disciples were willing to die rather than deny they had seen the risen Messiah. Only if one has presupposed Jesus cannot have been the Messiah can one deny that which is obvious. Israel's greatest son, Jesus, is the one Isaiah foresaw.

(c) 1997 Fred Klett

To see quotations from ancient rabbinic sources that interpret Isaiah 53 as referring to Messiah click here.

".... Rabbi Mosheh Kohen Ibn Crispin: This rabbi described those who interpret Isaiah 53 as referring to Israel as those: "having forsaken the knowledge of our Teachers, and inclined after the `stubbornness of their own hearts,' and of their own opinion, I am pleased to interpret it, in accordance with the teaching of our Rabbis, of the King Messiah....This prophecy was delivered by Isaiah at the divine command for the purpose of making known to us something about the nature of the future Messiah, who is to come and deliver Israel, and his life from the day when he arrives at discretion until his advent as a redeemer, in order that if anyone should arise claiming to be himself the Messiah, we may reflect, and look to see whether we can observe in him any resemblance to the traits described here; if there is any such resemblance, then we may believe that he is the Messiah our righteousness; but if not, we cannot do so." (From his commentary on Isaiah, quoted in The Fifty-third Chapter of Isaiah According to the Jewish Interpreters, Ktav Publishing House, 1969, Volume 2, pages 99-114.)...." http://www.chaim.org/rabbis.htm

To learn about the curious idea of the Leper-Messiah click here.

To learn about the "Two-Messiah" theory of some rabbinic thinkers click here.

To see a list of resources for further study click here.

To learn about how you can develop a relationship with the Suffering Servant. http://www.chaim.org/servant.htm

To return to the CHAIM home page click here.

Click for Full Text!


Why We Believe

We believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Why? See these articles below.

Is the Easter Bunny Jewish? The Resurrection is an historical event! Messiah Is Risen!

Excerpt:

"...The first followers of Jesus, or Yeshua as he was known before the Gentiles got involved, were Jewish. They celebrated the resurrection of Jesus according to the Jewish calendar, at Passover, when Jesus was crucified and rose again. Centuries later, Gentile followers used a different calendar. The Easter Bunny is only a recent phenomenon.

What of Yeshua, Jesus, who started it all? Doesn't it make sense to investigate the greatest Jew who ever lived? Sadly, some Jewish people avoid considering Yeshua. But shouldn't the Jewish community be more than a little proud of a man who changed the world through three brief years of ministry in Israel? Listen, a rabbi whose teachings have caused millions of Gentiles to turn from idolatry to worship the God of Israel isn't somebody to be ashamed of. Yeshua can't be ignored!

And what about the historical basis for Easter? Did Jesus really rise from the dead, or was the whole thing some bobbe-myseh cooked up to deceive the masses? Can we trust the historical accounts of those early Jewish disciples?...."

"....Maybe you weren't told, but many ancient rabbis believed in a suffering Messiah! The Talmud quotes Isaiah 53 as referring to the Messiah, as do ancient rabbinic commentaries. Even the great rabbi Maimonides wrote that Isaiah 53 refers to Messiah!1

Many modern rabbis claim Isaiah 53 refers to the sufferings of Israel. But has the awful treatment of the Jewish people really been God's plan for atonement? Can anyone really claim that the suffering of the Jewish people, however undeserved and unjust, atones for sin? The figure described in Isaiah 53 suffers willingly, dies, and rises again. It says: "the Lord makes his life a guilt offering" for his people. Perhaps the ancient Rabbis were right in speaking of a suffering Messiah?

So, Isaiah foretold a suffering Messiah who would atone for sin as the ultimate Passover lamb and rise again from the dead.

THE HISTORICAL RESURRECTION

The Orthodox Jewish scholar Pinchas Lapide wrote: "The resurrection of Jesus on that Easter Sunday and his appearances in the following days were purely Jewish faith experiences. Not one Gentile saw him after Good Friday. Everything that the Gentile church heard about the resurrection came only from Jewish sources because he appeared after Easter Sunday as the Risen One exclusively to Jews." "I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday not as an invention of the community of disciples, but as a historical fact."2 He still doesn't believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah; Lapide is an Orthodox Rabbi! As a scholar he must admit the accuracy of the accounts of the Jewish writers who reported the resurrection was seen by more than "500 of the brothers at the same time," most of whom were still living when the gospel accounts were written (1 Cor. 15:1-7).

The New Covenant accounts are the best attested ancient historical documents we have. The oldest actual manuscripts date from 130 AD into the 3rd century. Bernard Ramm writes: "In regard to the New Testament there are about thirteen thousand manuscripts, complete and incomplete, in Greek and other languages, that have survived from antiquity. No other work from classical antiquity has such attestation."3 Beyond question we have an accurate record of the testimony of these first century Jewish eyewitnesses. To deny this would be to throw out all we know about ancient history from the writings of Sophocles, Euripedes, Livy, and Plato, since they are attested by far fewer manuscripts from periods much much further removed from the date of the original writings!

But perhaps the gospel writers were lying. Maybe they believed what they wrote, but were deluded. Possibly Jesus only passed out and was later revived. Let's consider these alternate theories.

Is it plausible that the same Jewish men who brought us some of the highest moral teaching the world has ever known were liars perpetrating a fraud? They suffered unspeakable torture and death, boldly refusing to deny what they had seen. These were the men who hid in fear from the authorities when Yeshua was being crucified! Men don't willingly die for what they know is a lie, and these witnesses were all willing to risk death for the sake of their testimony to the risen Messiah.

Could they have been deluded or even insane? Madmen don't bring a profound message that enlightens the world, morally transforms the hearts of evil men4, and becomes the most highly translated best seller of all time!

Lapide wrote: "Is it possible for deceivers or self-deceived to establish a faith that conquers half the world? In other words, can swindlers let themselves be tortured and persecuted in the name of an illusion, up to a joyful martyrdom?"5

Could Jesus have merely passed out and gone into a coma, later to revive? Hardly. The Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus were expert executioners. They knew when their victims were dead. In Jesus' case they even pierced his side with a spear "bringing a sudden flow of blood and water" (John 19:34). Could someone crucified, pierced by a spear, certified dead by experts, wrapped in burial clothes, and then buried in a cold stone tomb for several days, remain alive? And even if such an ordeal could by some stretch of the imagination be survived, would the emaciated victim be in a condition to convince a fearful band of followers that he was the Lord of Life, victorious over the grave? Could they be inspired by such as this to lay down their lives and proclaim him God incarnate in the face of heated opposition from the Roman and Jewish authorities? To believe such a theory requires more "blind faith" than belief in the Easter Bunny himself!

We can only conclude one thing, nu? Yeshua really rose again from the dead, fulfilling Isaiah's prophecy. First century Jewish eyewitnesses wrote down what they saw and we have an accurate record of their accounts. Jesus must have been who he claimed to be since he backed it up by rising from the dead.

Forget the Easter Bunny! Come to the Passover Lamb! Don't let some silly goyish practices prejudice you against the Jewish Messiah. Don't let what some Gentiles have done contrary to what Jesus taught keep you from our Messiah. Yeshua came to pay for our sins, for our failing to obey the Torah. We've all broken the commandments and all must have a means of atonement for our sins. Messiah paid the price by suffering as the Passover Lamb for us. At that first Pesach our forefathers needed to put the blood of the Passover Lamb on the doors of their houses in order to have God's judgement "pass over" them. Today we each need to receive for ourselves the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world". God provided the Lamb's atonement so that the judgement we deserve for our sins can "pass over" us. The rabbis expected Messiah to come at Passover and for his redemption to be parallel to that of the Exodus. For this very reason we leave a place for Elijah at the seder. Elijah is said to prepare the way for Messiah. God sent the prophet Yochanan, known as "John the Baptist", in the spirit of Elijah to warn us to turn to God and receive the ultimate Passover Lamb for all peoples and for all time. Today in prayer receive the risen Messiah as your Passover Lamb and your deliverer from slavery to death before he returns to judge the world and renew creation. He promises eternal life and restored fellowship with God to all who trust him. Messiah's no Easter Bunny. He's the very real Passover Lamb risen from the dead....."

www.chaim.org/easter.htm

The Suffering Servant: Isaiah 53 The striking prophecy of Messiah 's suffering, forseen 700 years earlier!

The New Covenant was prophesied by Jeremiah www.chaim.org/jeremiah.htm

The Absurdity of Atheism Atheisn is self-contradictory. www.chaim.org/atheist.htm

Getting the Big Picture in the Bible How the whole Bible fits together and points to Messiah www.chaim.org/bigpicture.html

Return to CHAIM Home Page



Poster Comment:

A while back I was complaining because the churches were not emphasizing Isaiah 53:10 like I felt they should. Now I find a lot of stuff on the internet about Isaiah 53. This is important because the Jews teach that Isaiah 53 refers not to Jesus Christ, but to themselves. If they were to understand this passage, from their own Old Testament, I think it could help spell the end of Zionism. Perhaps that is why the rabbis don't read it in the synagogues.

===============

The National 'Holocaust' Museum: Synagogue of the New State Religion

By Michael A. Hoffman II. Copyright 1993.

"...A Jewish theologian, Dr. Mark Ellis, has stated that Jews are "using the Holocaust to justify brutality against the Palestinians." Dr. Ellis, asked, "Could Auschwitz be used in a perverse way to claim an inherent and internal (Jewish) superiority?" (Jewish Chronicle, Nov. 6, 1 992).

The "Holocaust" has become a media religion, the last truly believed religion in the otherwise agnostic West. It is a civic religion, one of the aims of which is to replace the crucifixion of Christ at Calvary with the experience of the Jews at Auschwitz, as the central ontological event of Western history....."

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/holocaust.html

From the Noahide.com site:

Who is the Son of G-d? This "Suffering Servant" Holds the Key to Your Salvation .... "It is the Jewish people, all of them."... . ... http://www.noahide.com/son.htm

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#1. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#0)

Why We Believe

We believe Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Why? See these articles below.

Link: www.chaim.org/Why.htm

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-01-21   17:43:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#0)

This is important because the Jews teach that Isaiah 53 refers not to Jesus Christ, but to themselves.

It's all about them /sarcasm/

They are the center of the universe.

You are, IMO, absolutely right. To me it's obvious that it is a messianic prophecy, and no amount of idiotic word manipulation / mans doctrines can change that.

,

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2009-01-21   17:51:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: PSUSA (#2)

There's a whole another aspect to this I nearly forgot. I have things to do for a while, but here's what it's about:

www.familyforest.com/jesus.html

You can probably see where I'm going with this.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-01-21   18:54:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#3)

Trace their lineage back to Christ? I am skeptical. I really don't see how that is possible.

.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2009-01-21   19:03:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: PSUSA (#4)

Trace their lineage back to Christ? I am skeptical. I really don't see how that is possible.

.

It's where they get their "divine right" to rule over the rest of us.

OF COURSE, it's bogus.

You'll notice the part in verse 10 that I bolded.

Christ's descendants from that verse foretell CHRISTIANS, the Church, who have made HIM [not animals] the sacrifice for their sin, and the means for their salvation.

The word displayed above as "descendants" is, in the King James version, stated "seed". This is the same word in the Hebrew, that is used in Genesis 3:15, where the battle between the seed of Satan, and the seed of Christ begins. The "seed" theme continues in the New Testament with Galatians 3:16...29. CHRIST is the "seed" promised to Abraham, and He fulfilled that physically as shown in Mary's genealogy in Luke 3. Galatians 3 goes on to further explain that if you then are Christ's follower, you become the seed of Abraham, and heir to the promises that were made to Abraham. Galatians 3:7 explains further this is all because of FAITH. Isaiah 53:10 foretells this faith in the Messiah, Jesus, would result in the Messiah's children. The reverse is also true. If one is not Jesus' seed by faith, no matter what kind of fairy tale one can present to portray oneself as genealogical progeny, if one does not believe that Christ is one's Savior, one is not His.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and HIS SEED were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.....[the rest is important and ties into America, but I want to concentrate on the seed-line]....26 For ye are all the children of God by FAITH IN Christ Jesus [remember in Luke 3, Adam was the Son of God.]...28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free; there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs to the promise.

To conclude, Abraham's seed are 1) Christ [satisfied physically by Mary's genealogy in Luke 3], and 2) those spiritual children who accept Him as the sacrifice for THEIR sin, thus fulfilling Isaiah 53.

Further, needless to say, in spite of the fairy tales concocted by the British Empire et al, which they are using to take Christ's kingdom BY FORCE AND DECEPTION, Christ did not have fleshly children:

Isaiah 53:8....For He was cut off out of the land of the living....And who shall declare His generation.....?

From that time, CHRISTIANS, of all races would declare His generation; CHRISTIANS would become His "seed", *** as exemplified in Acts 8:26-39, which is a New Testament fulfillment of Isaiah 53.

I am about to freeze up, and want to get this online before I lose it, but hope to get back with the fairy tales they are using to consummate their plot.

Why do the heathen rage [to plot, conspire].....The Kings of the Earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD, and against His annointed.....Psalm 2.

Isaiah 52:15.....The kings shall shut their mouths at him: For that which had not been told them shall they see; And that which they had not heard shall they consider.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-01-22   10:19:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#5)

work in progress...

Family Forest® shows some of the lineage of Jesus Christ in the Family Forest® Leadership Edition CD-ROM

Individual family ties relationships are calculated from Jesus to each of 114,800 different people during the last 2,000 plus years. Some of these individuals are themselves the ancestors of countless millions of living people.

What can this mean for you? If you find the name of one or more of your own ancestors in the Family Forest®, it means that in the Family Forest® Leadership Edition it is now possible for you to point-and-click travel through fully sourced generation-by-generation family ties from your family to Jesus' family, and consequently to many others in the Bible. See surnames below.

To see this kinship and the ancestral maps, history and various charts relating to Jesus purchase the Family Forest® Leadership Edition.

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In a review by Barbara Schenck in Genealogical Computing magazine she said: " Family Forest takes a whole different perspective. It looks at individuals, yes. But its talent is for fitting individuals into the big picture. In fact, it fits them into lots of pictures by allowing users to explore their connections to places, events, social grouops and ultimately, each other. Its goal is to show links that aren't immediately obvious, to make history personal and relevant, and to allow individuals from many backgrounds and ethnic origins to find out how they and their ancestors link into the world community. If you've ever had people say to you that history has nothing to do with them, this is the software that will change their minds."

Famous people in the Family Forest® related to Jesus Christ include:

Fifty-two Saints, 19 Magna Charta sureties, 22 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 33 U.S. Presidents, and 9 U.S. Vice Presidents.

All (or almost all) of the hereditary heirs of European thrones Current U.S. and world leaders like President George W. Bush, Senator John Forbes Kerry, Governor Howard Dean, and the British Royal family.

Hollywood stars like Katharine Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, Humphrey Bogart, Johnny Carson, Bette Davis, Walt Disney, Michael Douglas, Clint Eastwood, Lee Marvin, Julia Child, Catherine Oxenberg, and Brooke Shields.

Historical figures like Godefroi de Bouillon, Napoleon, King Arthur, Charlemagne, Sir Winston Churchill, Lewis & Clark, William the Conqueror, Charles Darwin, Clara Barton, General Robert E. Lee, General Douglas MacArthur, General George Patton, Brigham Young, the Wright Brothers, plus many more.

Authors and artists like George Orwell, Ralph Waldo Emerson, George Gilder, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Jr., Ernest Hemingway, Aldous Huxley, Louis L'Amour, Jack London, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Georgia O'Keeffe, Charles Willson Peale, Truman Capote, Norman Rockwell, Jonathan Swift, Henry David Thoreau, Owen Wister, and others.

As well as everyday people with surnames such as: Abadie, Abbe, Abbey, Abbot, Abbott, Abel, Abell, Aborn, Acklen, Acton, Adams, Adgate, Aiken, Ainsworth, Alcock, Alden, Aldrich, Alexander, Alfriend, Alger, Allard, Allen, Alling, Allyn, Almy, Alrich, Alsop, Alston, Ambler, Ambrose, Ames, Ammidown, Amory, Amsden, Anable, Anderson, Andrews, Andross, Angell, Angevine, Anson, Anthony, Applegate, Appleton, Apthorp, Arbuckle, Archer, Armistead, Armstrong, Arnold, Arthur, Arundel, Arundell, Asbury, Ashby, Ashly, Ashmun, Ashton, Askin, Askling, Aspinwall, Astaire, Aston, Astor, Atherton, Atkins, Atkinson, Atmore, Atwater, Atwood, Aucher, Auchincloss, Audley, Augur, Austin, Averill, Avery, Ayer, Ayers, Aylett, Babcock, Babson, Bacheller, Bachschmidt, Backus, Bacon, Bagley, Bailey, Baillee, Baily, Bainbridge, Baird, Baker, Balch, Baldwin, Bales, Balestier, Baliol, Ball, Ballard, Ballinger, Ballord, Ballou, Bancroft, Bangs, Bankhead, Banks, Banning, Bannister, Banwell, Baptist, Barber, Barbour, Barclay, Bardwell, Barkalow, Barker, Barksdale, Barlow, Barnaby, Barnard, Barne, Barnes, Barnett, Barnewall, Barney, Barns, Barnum, Barnwell, Barr, Barret, Barrett, Barrickman, Barron, Barrows, Bartholomew, Bartlett, Bartol, Barton, Barttelot, Bascom, Bass, Basset, Bassett, Batchelder, Batcheller, Batchellor, Bate, Bateman, Bates, Batt, Baxter, Bayard, Bayley, Baylies, Bayly, Beach, Beal, Beale, Beall, Beals, Bean, Beard, Beardsley, Beardsworth, Bearss, Beasley, Beauchamp, Beaufort, Beaumont, Beck, Beckwith, Bedinger, Beecher, Beekman, Beers, Beggs, Belasyse, Belcher, Belden, Bell, Bellows, Bement, Bemis, Benedict, Benfield, Benjamin, Bennet, Bennett, Benson, Bent, Bentinek, Bentley, Benton, Berkeley, Berkley, Berlin, Bernake, Bernard, Berry, Bertie, Berwick, Bethell, Betts, Bevan, Beverley, Bibby, Bicknell, Biddle, Bidwell, Bigelow, Biggs, Bigod, Bigot, Billings, Billingsley, Bingham, Binns, Bird, Birdsey, Birdseye, Birge, Birney, Biscoe, Bishop, Black, Blackburn, Blackford, Blackiston, Blackmer, Blackwell, Bladen, Blair, Blakiston, Blakistone, Blanchard, Bland, Blanton, Bleakie, Blessie, Blish, Bliss, Block, Blodget, Blodgett, Blood, Bloom, Blossom, Blount, Bloxton, Blue, Blunt, Board, Boardman, Bodine, Boettiger, Bogart, Boggs, Bohannan, Bohn, Boles, Boleyn, Bolles, Bolling, Bonaparte, Bond, Bondurant, Bonfils, Bonville, Booker, Booth, Boothby, Boothe, Borden, Borie, Bosbyshell, Boscawen, Bostock, Bostwick, Bosworth, Boteler, Bothe, Bourchier, Bourne, Boutell, Boutelle, Bovis, Bowdoin, Bowen, Bowers, Bowes, Bowes-Lyon, Bowker, Bowles, Bowman, Bowne, Boxley, Boyd, Boyen, Boyer, Boykin, Boyer, Boyle, Boylston, Boynton, Bozman, Brackett, Bradbury, Braddock, Bradford, Bradley, Bradshaw, Bradstreet, Brady, Bragg, Brainerd, Bramshot, Branch, Brandon, Braxton, Breck, Breckenridge, Breckinridge, Breed, Brent, Brenton, Brereton, Brevort, Brewer, Brewster, Brice, Bridge, Bridges, Bridgham, Bridgman, Briggs, Brigham, Bright, Brightman, Brinckle, Brinckloe, Brinley, Brinsmade, Briscoe, Britton, Brockenbrough, Brockman, Brockway, Broderick, Brodhead, Broeck, Brome, Bromley, Bromme, Bronson, Brook, Brooke, Brookfield, Brooks, Broughton, Brown, Browne, Browning, Bruce, Brudenell, Bruen, Bruges, Brush, Bruyn, Bryan, Bryant, Buchanan, Buck, Buckingham, Bucklin, Buckminster, Buckner, Buel, Buell, Buerhaus, Buffum, Bulkeley, Bulkely, Bull, Bullard, Bullitt, Bullock, Bump, Bundy, Bunker, Bunnell, Burbank, Burd, Burden, Burdick, Burgess, Burgh, Burke, Burkholder, Burlingame, Burlingham, Burnap, Burnet, Burnett, Burnham, Burns, Burr, Burrell, Burrill, Burritt, Burrough, Burroughs, Burrus, Burt, Burton, Burwell, Bush, Bushnell, Butcher, Butler, Butman, Butterfield, Butterick, Butters, Button, Buxton, Byars, Byrd, Byrne, Cabell, Cabot, Cadwalader, Cadwell, Cady, Caldwell, Calhoun, Calkins, Call, Callaway, Calthorpe, Calvert, Cameron, Camp, Campbell, Canfield, Cannell, Cannon, Cantacuzene, Capel, Capell, Caperton, Capron, Carew, Carey, Cargill, Carhart, Carleton, Carley, Carlton, Carmichael, Carnegie, Carpenter, Carr, Carrell, Carrington, Carrol, Carroll, Carson, Carter, Cartwright, Carver, Carvill, Cary, Case, Cash, Cass, Castle, Castleman, Catlett, Catlin, Cattle, Cave, Cavendish, Cecil Chace, Chadsey, Chadwick, Chafee, Chaffee, Chalk, Chalkley, Chamberlain, Chamberlaine, Chamberlayne, Chamberlin, Chambers, Champe, Champernoun, Champion, Champlin, Chandler, Chanler, Channing, Chapin, Chaplin, Chapman, Chase, Chason, Chatfield, Chatterton, Chauncey, Chauncy, Chaworth, Cheever, Cheney, Cherleton, Chesebrough, Chester, Chetwode, Chew, Chichester, Chickering, Child, Childress, Childs, Chilton, Chipman, Chisman, Chismon, Chittenden, Choate, Cholmley, Christian, Christie, Christophers, Christy, Chrystie, Church, Churchill, Churchman, Cilley, Claggett, Claiborne, Clap, Clapp, Clark, Clarke, Clarkson, Claude, Clay, Claypole, Claypool, Claypoole, Clayton, Clement, Clements, Clerke, Cleveland, Clifford, Clift, Clifton, Clinton, Clisbee, 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Crossman, Crouch, Crow, Crowell, Crowne, Crusemann, Crutchman, Culbertson, Culpeper, Cumming, Cummings, Cumyn, Cunnabell, Cunningham, Cunyingham, Cunyngham, Cunynghame, Curd, Currie, Currier, Currin, Curtis, Curtiss, Curzon, Cushing, Cushman, Custis, Cutler, Cutter, Cutting, Dabney, Dacre, Dadmun, Daggett, Daingerfield, Dakin, Dalton, Dame, Damon, Dana, Danby, Dandridge, Danforth, Daniel, Daniels, Danton, Danvers, Darcy, Darden, Darling, Darnall, Darneal, Darwin, Dashiell, Dashwood, d'Aubigny, Davenport, David, Davidge, Davidson, Davis, Davison, Dawes, Dawson, Day, Dayton, de Bohun, de Clare, de Forest, de Lacy, de Mandeville, de Peyster, de Ros, de Vere, de Vesci, De Wolfe, Dean, Deane, Dearborn, Deighton, Deincourt, Deitz, Delafield, Delano, Delos, deMille, Deming, Dempsey, Denham, Denison, Dennio, Dennis, Dennys, Densmore, Dent, Denton, Depew, Derby, Derehaugh, des Roches, Despencer, Devens, Devereux, Devin, Devol, Dewar, Dewell, Dewey, DeWolf, Dexter, di Bonaventura, Diaz, 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Giorni, Gipson, Giron, Giustiniani, Gladding, Glanville, Glascock, Glasgow, Glassell, Gleason, Glenn, Glover, Goddard, Godfrey, Godolphin, Goetker, Goff, Goggin, Gold, Goldsborough, Goldsmith, Goldthwaite, Gonzaga, Good, Goodale, Goode, Goodell, Gooden, Goodenough, Goodhue, Goodloe, Goodman, Goodnow, Goodrich, Goodrick, Goodricke, Goodspeed, Goodwin, Goodyear, Gookin, Gordon, Gore, Gorges, Gorham, Gorsuch, Gorton, Gosford, Goss, Gossett, Gould, Goushill, Gove, Grady, Grafton, Graham, Grandin, Grandison, Granger, Grannis, Grant, Granville, Grattan, Graves, Gray, Green, Greene, Greenhalghe, Greenleaf, Greenman, Greenough, Greenwood, Greer, Gregory, Grenville, Gresley, Greville, Grey, Gridley, Griffen, Griffin, Griffing, Griffith, Griggs, Grimes, Grinnell, Griscom, Griswold, Groan, Groesbeck, Groot, Groser, Grosvenor, Grout, Grove, Grover, Groves, Grymes, Guerrant, Guise, Gustin, Guthrie, Gutierrez, Gwathmey, Gwynne, Habersham, Hackett, Hackney, Haddad, Hadden, Haddon, Hadley, Haff, 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Henshaw, Hepbron, Hepburn, Herbert, Herdman, Hereford, Hering, Herman, Herndon, Heron, Herrick, Herron, Hersey, Herter, Hessenbruch, Heveningham, Hewitt, Hewston, Heydon, Heyl, Heyward, Hibbard, Hibbart, Hickling, Hickham, Hickok, Hickox, Hicks, Higbee, Higgins, Higginson, Higham, Higley, Hildebrand, Hildreth, Hill, Hillhouse, Hillmann, Hills, Hilton, Himes, Hinchcliff, Hinchman, Hinckley, Hines, Hinkley, Hinman, Hinsdale, Hinton, Hitchcock, Hite, Hoadley, Hoar, Hobart, Hobbs, Hobson, Hodgdon, Hodge, Hodges, Hodgson, Hoff, Hoffman, Hogan, Hoge, Hogg, Hoghton, Holand, Holbrook, Holcombe, Holden, Holladay, Holland, Holles, Holley, Holliday, Hollingsworth, Hollis, Hollister, Hollyday, Holman, Holmes, Holt, Holte, Holter, Holton, Holyoke, Homans, Home, Homes, Hoo, Hooe, Hooker, Hooper, Hoover, Hope, Hopkins, Hopson, Hopton, Horn, Horney, Horsmanden, Horton, Hosford, Hosley, Hosmer, Hosum, Hotchkiss, Hough, Houghteling, Houghton, Houston, Houstoun, Hover, Hovey, How, Howard, Howe, Howell, Howes, Howland, Hoxsie, Hoyt, Hubbard, Hubbell, Hudson, Huff, Huggins, Hughes, Hulett, Hull, Hulse, Hume, Humiston, Humphrey, Humphreys, Hungerford, Hunnicutt, Hunt, Hunter, Huntington, Huntley, Hurd, Hurlbut, Hussey, Hutchings, Hutchins, Hutchinson, Hutton, Huxley, Hyatt, Hyde, Hyman, Hynson, Ide, Idol, Inglehart, Ingalls, Ingersoll, Ingles, Ingraham, Ingram, Innes, Innis, Ireland, Irish, Irvine, Irwin, Isenberg, Isham, Isler, Iverson, Ives, Jackson, Jacob, Jacobs, Jacobus, Jamar, James, Jameson, Janvier, Jaquith, Jarman, Jay, Jefferson, Jeffords, Jeffries, Jeffts, Jefts, Jenifer, Jenkins, Jenks, Jennings, Jennison, Jepson, Jerauld, Jergenson, Jermyn, Jewell, Jewett, Jitkoff, Johns, Johnson, Johnston, Joiner, Jones, Jordan, Joslin, Joslyn, Josslyn, Jouett, Joy, Joyce, Judd, Judkins, Judson, Kale, Kane, Karcher, Kay, Kaye, Keach, Kean, Kearfott, Keats, Kebler, Keeler, Keen, Keene, Keeney, Keep, Keete, Keim, Keith, Keller, Kelley, Kellogg, Kelly, Kelsea, Kelsey, Kemp, Kempe, Kemper, 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http://www.familyforest.com/jesus.html

1. Family Forest® - Product Details One very unique situation occurs with Jesus’ Family Forest® Kinship Report. In The Bible, Luke 3: 38 specifically calls Adam “the son of God” and that’s ... http://www.familyforest.com/Da_Vinci_Code.html

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-01-25   10:31:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#6)

My grandparents name is in there. That must mean I am elite. Bow before me, serfs! And make me a sandwich!

I still dont know how they came up with those names. Is it because there are a lot of famous people with those names? It seems like a scam to me, to make a few $$$ off of people that have these last names and want to think of themselves as being more special than everyone else.

.

Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Nehemiah 4:14 And I looked and arose and said to the nobles and to the officials and to the rest of the people, “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.”

PSUSA  posted on  2009-01-25   10:44:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: PSUSA (#7)

I suspect it's part truth and part scam....and doesn't mean a thing as far as being saved.

I'm still trying to sort this nonsense out.

Here's some malarky from the "Royal House of Britain" and their "divine" bloodline.

www.asis.com/users/stag/royalty.html

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2009-01-25   15:09:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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