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Title: Sarah Palin Champions Barbaric Aerial Hunting of Wolves
Source:
YouTube
URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGPFPBmzRrQ
Published: Sep 3, 2008
Author: defendersactionfund
Post Date: 2009-02-03 17:56:11 by FormerLurker
Keywords: Barbaric, Animal slaughter, Compassionate Conservatism, Sarah Palin
Views: 9242
Comments: 460
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#343. To: X-15 (#277)
A Real Hunter does not kill for sport, but because he/she uses his kill for food.. Also, you remind me of a "hunter" I know, that makes a high 6 figure income, but lives in a 3 room apartment with his Stuffed Kills.. and once told me, that he knows that where he lives, is in not the best part of town, but loves to scare the fck out of those who live around him..
No, I don't.. but there is a huge difference between "mercy" killings and Sport Hunting.. My Great Uncle Jim, in his role of Game Warden, had to set up a program to reduce the % of Deer on many PP&L owned lands.. he did it in a proper and moral manner, and to this day.. I am proud of his actions..
Wait a sec here.. you stated, you set out to decieve another member here, with what you were posting and you want to talk about having "moral" ground..
BULLSHIT! I personally know of someone who has, and posted about this person, back up on this thread..
The programs use a closely controlled permit system allowing aerial or same day airborne methods to remove wolves in designated areas- X's posted article.. So which is it? Because I see airplane/aerial as one and the same..
Oh and BTW, boy, you apparently don't know how to spell the word "too", unless you MEANT to say "to bright" in trying to say I was not going to a place called bright. I'll give X-15 benefit of doubt, but this thread did remind me of getting hollered at at work for trying to bright the place up too much.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
I'm gonna make any wolves on my property wear little snow plows. Where can I hire some PETA volunteers?
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
LOL.. EDIT: I know of one here locally, that protest all of our hunting cabins, you can have him.. but once you take him, we don't want him back! ;-)
This, apparently, came from contribution #311. Thankfully, the intellectual who authored this persuasive argument is on my s_tlist because I don't see #311 but I'm glad to get an occasional glimpse of what I'm missing. I've been too busy to visit this site for the past 10 days or so but, clearly, the level and the civility of debate here has improved much.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I don't post much at LP because of the same thing.. I love a good debate, but when every other word is of that level, oh well.. all I can say, is that it shows my age.. I'm just getting too old for it..
I heard that (the brain) size does not matter and I tend to agree. Regardless of size, one's mind is a terrible thing to (turn to) waste.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
What a waste it is to lose one's mind. How true that is.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
Hell with politics, I just want a flunky I can dress like a reindeer and send across town with packages. Oops, I've said too much.
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
DAMN! you own me a new screen for my laptop with that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But don't you have to have one first?
Dang it Dak, you had me so messed up with your last post to me, I had to edit my last post.. Dang it, dang it, DANG IT!
Chew on this: Source: Anchorage Daily News www.adn. com/news/alaska/w.../wolves/story/410461.html Aerial hunting program kills 124 wolves State wildlife officials believe they have saved more than 1,400 moose or nearly 3,000 caribou -- or some combination thereof -- with a winter program to kill wolves from aircraft, although the wolf kill remains far below what the state wanted. Pilot-gunner teams have taken 124 wolves to date, according to Bruce Bartley, spokesman for the Alaska Division of Wildlife Conservation. The goal was 455 to 670 wolves. Still, the kill, which is ongoing, is more than the 97 wolves gunners took last year. The program runs as long as conditions allow or until state biologists decide wolf-kill quotas have been met. The kill has been low this year because of a March that lacked the fresh snow and good light needed for optimum hunting conditions. The exact number of moose or caribou saved by thinning wolf populations is hard to determine. Fish and Game's ungulate survival calculations are based on an average consumption of approximately 12 moose or 24 caribou per wolf per year. A kill of 124 wolves would thus translate to 1,488 moose or 2,976 caribou or some combination thereof. But if the moose are small -- calves or yearlings -- and easy to kill, the wolves might eat more. If the hunting is difficult, the wolves might be forced to survive on less. And in some cases, wolves can supplement their main diet of moose and caribou with other prey such as Dall sheep or beavers. Meanwhile, the number of moose and caribou saved for reproductive purposes, wildlife viewing and some hunting could be much smaller if wolves killed in March or April are quickly replaced by cubs in the summer. Wolves have high reproductive rates, leading some biologists to question the effectiveness of the hunts. Studies conducted on the Kenai Peninsula by noted biologist Rolf Peterson from Michigan Technological University found that even if 40 percent of the wolves in a pack died over a winter, pack sizes could be rebuilt by the start of the next winter. Peterson found the Kenai wolves killed, on average, one moose every 4.7 days. The hunting efficiency of wolves in winter is what led state wildlife officials to support aerial wolf hunting -- or wolf control as it is commonly called -- in areas of the state where biologists believe moose and caribou populations have been depressed by predation from bears and wolves, bad winters or in some cases by humans overhunting them. The ability of wolf populations to quickly rebuild and retain high rates of predation has been one of the arguments opponents of the hunts have used to criticize aerial gunning as inefficient and unnecessary. However, most opposition to the hunts is built around an affection for wolves by proponents. Long a subject of fear and loathing in North America, wolves were exterminated in most of the Lower 48 in the last century. They hung on only in the far north forests of Minnesota until American attitudes changed, and a program was begun to restore the animals to their traditional range. Wolves have since spread from Minnesota into nearby Midwestern states, and a reintroduction program initiated in Yellowstone National Park has helped wolves to re-establish old hunting grounds in Wyoming, Montana and Colorado. Meanwhile, the animals have become a wildlife-viewing icon for nature lovers everywhere. CONTROVERSIAL PRACTICE Aerial wolf control in Alaska remains highly controversial. Citizen efforts to stop it continue. Alaska voters have twice approved initiatives to stop the hunts, and another is slated to go on the ballot later this year. In March, Superior Court Judge William F. Morse invalidated the aerial killing of wolves in several small areas of the state while issuing a ruling upholding the predator control program. The suit was filed by Friends of Animals, Defenders of Wildlife and the Alaska Wildlife Alliance. Ron Clarke, assistant director of the state's Division of Wildlife Conservation, told The Associated Press that Morse's ruling was largely a victory for the program. "It reaffirms the state's position," he said. "We thought we were doing it appropriately and for the most part we are." Later in March, the shortfalls identified by Morse were fixed and the programs reactivated, according to Cathie Harms, spokeswoman for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. But Priscilla Feral, executive director for Friends of Animals, wasn't satisfied. "The state's mean-spirited and deeply unpopular wolf-shooting forays must stop," she told the Associated Press. Wolf-control teams in airplanes kill a fraction of the 1,200 to 1,300 wolves taken by trappers in Alaska each year, but the airplane kills remain at the center of a hot debate. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wolf kill summary: Preliminary Fish and Game numbers Here is a breakdown, by game management unit, of the 124 wolves killed by same- day airborne hunting and the 157 by more traditional hunting and trapping, according to Fish and Game. Alaska has a total of 26 game management units. GMU 13 WHERE: Nelchina Basin, a broad area generally bounded by the Glenn Highway on the south, the Denali Highway to the north, the Copper River to the east and the Chickaloon River to the west. Desired population: 135-165 Fall population estimate: 242-296 Wolf kill, same-day airborne: 33 Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 53 Total: 86 Post-control population: 156-210 GMU 16 WHERE: Drainage of the Yentna River, a tributary to the Susitna River just north of Anchorage Desired population: 30-60 Fall population estimate: 106-173 Wolf kill, same day airborne: 20 Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 23 Total: 43 Post-control population: 63-130 GMU 19A WHERE: North slope of the Alaska Range in a huge area around the tiny village of Sleetmute Desired population: 30-36 Fall population estimate: 59-93 Wolf kill, same day airborne: 15 Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 16 Total: 31 Post-control population: 28-62 GMU 19D WHERE: North slope of the Alaska Range in a huge area around the town of McGrath Desired population: 40 Fall population estimate: 86-114 Wolf kill, same day airborne: 29 Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 23 Total: 52 Post-control population: 34-62 GMU 12 AND 20E WHERE: Swath of land half the length of the Alaska-Canada border from Wrangell- St. Elias National Park and Preserve in the south to the community of Eagle Desired population: 88-103 Fall population estimate: 366-398 Wolf kill, same day airborne: 27 Wolf kill, hunting and trapping: 42 Total: 69 Post-control wolf population: 259-311
_________________________________________________________________________ State wildlife officials believe they have saved more than 1,400 moose or nearly 3,000 caribou -- or some combination thereof -- with a winter program to kill wolves from aircraft, although the wolf kill remains far below what the state wanted. Hmmmmm. 124 wolves or 4,400 moose / caribou. There is some kind of moral relativism argument in here, I'm sure of it. BTW a moose bit my sister once ~(#/
4um Traitor Four stories of the flood PREDATE the Bible. As do many Biblical stories that have been previously recorded in Sumerian texts. Real scientists actually know that the flood was not a WORLDWIDE event, but rather an event that occured in an ISOLATED area. How did the dinos fit into the ark? How about giraffes that were never indiginous to the area? Maybe God used quantum physics to get 'er done just as Jesus used quantum physics to feed the masses all those fishes. The theory of evolution is equally scientific as the theory of gravity. The difference is that the theory of gravity is now LAW, while the body of evidence regarding the theory of evolution is still growing. The theory includes a much more expansive body of evidence than fossil records. Nobody with a lick of sense regarding science denies that theory of evolution is scientific. Of coure, I don't expect a person who denies inductive reasoning in lieu of the term verifiable to understand an iota about science. In regards to the infallible word of the Bible, refer to Jeremiah, 8, 8: How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? The Bible actually tells you that the scribes have lied and tampered with the message. What about trusting all the prophets? Jeremiah, 23, 26-27: How long shall this be in the heart of the prophesy lies? Yea, they are prophets of deceit of their own heart. Even Jesus told you to beware, Luke 24, 25: Then he (Jesus) said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart, to believe all that the prophets have spoken.
Chew on this II: Source: www.foxnews.com/story/ 0,2933,324106,00.html Alaskan Group Asks for Permission to Kill Wolf Pups ANCHORAGE, Alaska — Residents along the Kuskokwim River want state game managers to allow them to kill wolf pups in their dens. Wolf numbers seem to be rising in the wilderness around Aniak, McGrath and other villages, and the task once carried out by young Native men should be employed again to help moose populations recover, said Greg Roczicka, natural resources director with Orutsaramuit Native Council in Bethel. The tribal government and a Fish and Game advisory committee along the central Kuskokwim River have submitted separate proposals asking the Board of Game to overturn regulations outlawing the practice. The Game Board is scheduled to consider the proposals at upcoming meetings later this month and in February. At least one group plans to speak against the idea. "We're fervently opposed to it," said John Toppenberg, director with Alaska Wildlife Alliance. "It's been illegal in Alaska for a long time and deservedly so. It's a Stone Age concept of wildlife management and has no place as a management tool for civilized people. It's just barbaric." The tribal council and advisory panel also want the board to let hunters kill bear cubs in dens. Along with wolves, bears are blamed for low moose numbers around central Kuskokwim villages, said Doug Carney of Sleetmute, former chairman of Central Kuskokwim Advisory Committee. Last year's poor aerial wolf-kill and trapping season in Game Unit 19A, located around Aniak, is factoring into concerns that wolf numbers are rebounding, he said. Aerial gunners and trappers killed 10 wolves last winter and spring, compared to more than 70 in each of the two previous years, because a lack of snow made tracking and spotting wolves difficult, he said. This winter, people are seeing wolves more often than in the past two years, and trappers are finding more wolf tracks, said Carney, a trapper. Roczicka said pup killing is necessary because the central Kuskokwim region once teemed with moose, consistently providing subsistence meat for hunters from Bethel and villages. Because moose numbers have plummeted in the last five years, subsistence hunting has been eliminated or sharply reduced, he said. "It was the best moose habitat in the country and it's almost totally gone now," he said. "We want to do everything we can to get moose numbers up back to the way they were." Reviving the practice will allow predator management to continue if the state's aerial wolf-kill program ends, said Roczikca. Efforts to stop it include a citizen's initiative to appear on the state ballot in August. Many of the Yup'ik hunters who once controlled wolves in Western Alaska have died, but their stories have passed down, Roczicka said. People who are still alive today often share those stories, including members of Orutsararmuit, Roczicka said. The group's seven-member council asked Roczicka in the fall to submit the Game Board proposal, he said. The old practice is referenced in a 1997 report by the National Academy of Sciences called "Wolves, Bears and their Prey in Alaska." According to the report, Athabascans in the Interior controlled wolf numbers to protect caribou and moose by keeping track of wolf dens in hunting areas and systematically killing pups. Other methods of wolf control that are no longer practiced — and are not requested in the proposal — include wiping an animal's blood on knives or sharp rocks, he said. Wolves cut themselves as they licked away the blood, bleeding to death through their mouths. Also, some trappers would coil sharpened baleen or willow sticks into taut wads, cover them with fat and freeze the device, he said. Once gobbled by wolves, the wads would open, piercing stomachs and killing the animal, he said. Game Board chairman Cliff Judkins said the pup-killing proposal is worth discussing. "It certainly has merit if it's effective and is done by Native and Eskimo people," he said. "They certainly know where the dens are at and they're not interested in wiping out wolf populations any more than we are." If the Game Board doesn't pass Orutsararmuit's proposal at its meeting beginning Jan. 25, the central Kuskokwim Advisory committee wants its proposals passed at the Game Board's next meeting beginning Feb. 29. The proposals only apply to Game Management Unit 19, surrounding Aniak and McGrath.
_________________________________________________________________________ Personally, I'd like to catch and release them. Into Los Angeles County, Boston, Washington D.C., Albuquerque and NYC - among dozens of other places !!!
4um Traitor Please don't mistake your amazing faith as having anything whatsoever to do with science.
God is always good!
Hyannis Port, Kennebunkport, City of London...Davos?
The ultimate effect of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer
It could be called "letting the wolves clean up the sick/diseased/old/worthless democrats". That's the exact language the WOLF lobby uses to defend the imbalance in nature without management. The first explorers into the interior of Alaska n the 18th centurey almost starved due to a lack of game due to wolf predation, an inconvenient truth to be sure.
_________________________________________________________________________ When was the last time you actually read your Bible? A thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday. Psalms, xc, 4. One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Peter, iii, 8. RickyJ, which is correct? Your analysis of six 24 hour days or these Biblical sources, the inspired word of God, that contradict your own assumptions? The Bible is filled with contradictions such as this. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Hosea 4, 6. For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith, virtue; and to virtue, knowledge.
..crawford, paraguay. Absofreakintutely !
4um Traitor Sorry, I was flipping the elk steaks. I totally agree; it's clear to me.
4um Traitor Ricky, I have no difficulty distinguishing faith from science. Actually, there is much ado in the world of science to VERIFY the power of faith. The inherent quest of science is not to discount God, but rather to understand his creation. As one of my favorite scientists, who wanted only to know God's thoughts, stated: "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." And, "The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge." (this is verified in the Bible) And, last but surely not least, "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." Albert Einstein
This is the perfect case for states rights: why in the heck are people in the Lower 48 trying to dictate how Alaska manages their wildlife?? I've never seen one person from Alaska tell Colorado how to manage their elk herds or try to tell Texas how to manage their deer. Thinning out the wolves may not look pretty to some people, but aerial control is a necessity due to the size of Alaska. The wolf lobby is real and ultimately it leads to the ban on ALL hunting.
_________________________________________________________________________ Something to accompany your steaks (did you baste any butter on them?): Source: www.adn. com/news/alaska/w.../wolves/story/205436.html Alaska puts bounty on wolves to boost predator control program ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - The state is offering incentives for people who kill wolves in an effort to boost Alaska's predator control program, which so far has failed to meet expected numbers. "Several factors have led to a low wolf take this winter, so we're going to step up our efforts to meet the annual objectives in this important program," Commissioner Denby Lloyd with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game said in a statement Wednesday. The program, now in its fourth year and operating in five areas of the state, is designed to increase moose and caribou numbers by reducing the number of predators. The incentives include offering 180 volunteer pilots and aerial gunners $150 in cash for turning in legs of freshly killed wolves, Gov. Sarah Palin's office announced Tuesday. The state will use the left forelegs of wolves as biological specimens, which can help biologists determine wolf age and will assist the program in the future, Lloyd said. Defenders of Wildlife, an advocacy group opposed to the predator control program, said it was outraged by Palin's decision. "Bounties have no place in modern wildlife management and undoubtedly would lead to the illegal killing of wolves," Karla Dutton, director of the group's Alaska office, said in a statement. Previously, the only reward was a wolf pelt they could sell, usually for somewhere between $200 and $300, Bruce Bartley, Department of Fish and Game spokesman, told the Anchorage Daily News. The Palin administration is anteing up cash because the number of wolf kills this winter is behind schedule. State biologists wanted 382 to 664 wolves killed by the time the snow that helps with tracking disappears this spring. The predator-control season ends April 30. As of Tuesday morning, 98 wolves had been killed by aerial gunners, hunters and trappers. Pilots have complained that fuel prices are too high to fly and there hasn't been enough snow on the ground to track the elusive animals, said Matt Robus, Division of Wildlife Conservation director. There are also fewer wolves to kill now because of kills in past years, he said. More than 600 wolves have been killed under the program. The state estimates there are between 7,000 and 11,000 wolves in Alaska. The Board of Game recently urged Palin to let state staff shoot wolves from helicopters. Shooting from helicopters that hover close to packs would be more deadly and humane than from the airplanes that are currently allowed, board members have said. Palin has asked Fish and Game officials to charter helicopters only as a last resort. The governor prefers cash incentives because they are less expensive than renting helicopters, and the income helps families where the wolf killing occurs, Leighow said. The state also plans to share information with program volunteers on where the wolves have been spotted.
_________________________________________________________________________ those are good points. i'm learning as i'm reading along here. it is a controversial issue as was stated in the last article you posted and as evidenced by this thread. i didn't realize that moose and caribou were a staple in the diets of native alaskans who might not have food otherwise. at the same time, it's really difficult to think about the suffering of the animals with these horrid kill methods described above not limited to the aerial shootings--the killing of the cubs in their dens, the bloodied knives which cause the wolves to bleed to death, the taut wads piercing their stomachs. just awful. question. don't laugh. i'm ignorant on this and on hunting period. does or has anyone eaten wolf meat? since they're plentiful, that would seem a solution to this.
Basically, if the wolf lobby gets it's way - there will be no hunting ! Period. The wolves gobble up all the yummy critters, there's basically no hunting left, the yummy critters die off, wolves are off limits for hunting (protected predator class) and no more hunting is the final result. X - am I close ?
4um Traitor 4um Traitor You just don't get it, do you.. This is just the type of article, that the left can use against Hunting. They can put up some pictures of Wolf Pups and everyone's heart strings are pulled.. and the next thing you know, we have more laws against moral hunting.. But damn anyone, that says what I just did.. they have to be against hunting.. It is you and your type of hunters, that will cost us our rights, to hunt in this country..
Yes and No.. there are some groups that want a total ban on all Hunting and the Ownership of Guns. There are some groups that are using this type of Hunting, to push for Outlawing Guns, the Hunting part is just the means. Then there groups that want a balance manner of Hunting. Then on the Hunting side of the issue, there are groups that join the above group, in having a balanced manner in Hunting. And then there are those like X, that seem to have a No Limit of the how and where.
I don't see 'no limit' coming from X.
4um Traitor Not that I know of. I do know of some people that tried to eat coyote meat in an attempt to utilize more than just the hide/skull/claws and they couldn't drown it in enough BBQ sauce to make it palatable, I'm guessing wolf would be no better. Contrast with the fact that you can eat bear and mountain lion/panther steaks and it's supposed to be good eating. Wildlife management has NEVER led to the extermination of any animal, unregulated hunting has. The FedGov tried to exterminate the coyote in the Lower 48 from the mid-1940's to the late 1950's and couldn't do it. The wolves aren't going anywhere. Did you know that there are wolves in France? They're "protected", but the villagers still kill them and frustrate the French FedGov.
_________________________________________________________________________ You got it. It's a backdoor method to eventually ban all hunting by showing cute, cuddly wolf pup pictures along with evil films of wolves being shot. Notice that ONLY WHITE MEN are shown killing wolves, not eskimo's/Indians/blacks. Deduce what you want from that, too.
_________________________________________________________________________ Digest the following dilemna in contrast to the issue of wolves in Alaska. The problem: too many elk. The solution: shoot them. The enviro-weenie complaint: let the wolves do it. The problem with that: $$$$$$. What SHOULD have happened all along: regulated hunting by the citizens. Source: www.thedenverch annel.com/news/18639944/detail.html Elk Shooting Begins At Rocky Mountain National Park Up To 100 Elk Will Be 'Culled' ESTES PARK, Colo. -- Elk roaming throughout Rocky Mountain National Park are being taken down one-by-one as a federal program to thin the herd gets under way. Wednesday was the first day of the so-called "culling" operation, a controversial program meant to save the park's willow and aspen stands, which have been ravaged by the largest concentrated elk herd in the country. The team of six to 10 volunteer hunters had trained with national park and Colorado Division of Wildlife rangers. "The culling team has a primary shooter, a primary observer, a secondary shooter, and a secondary observer," said Larry Rogstad, with the Colorado Division of Wildlife. Sharpshooters spotted the first herd shortly after gathering in the shadow of Longs Peak Wednesday morning, but they quickly scrapped the target because the rocky hillside didn't offer a safe shot. "This is a heavily visited area -- Rocky Mountain National Park. And we want to ensure there is an immediate backstop behind every animal before we shoot," said Ben Bobowski, with Rocky Mountain National Park. Soon after, a female elk was spotted in Upper Beaver Meadows and immediately taken down. "The animal separated itself from the herd and was down in a matter of seconds," Bobowski said. After 11 years of research, feedback and planning, the National Park Service decided to go with the culling program, with the intent that trained volunteer hunters would shoot only one or two female elk a day. "Out of respect for the animal and the integrity of the ecosystem, it's important to do this right now," Bobowski said. The National Park Service has been criticized for culling because there were other options. The idea of fertility control is still being researched but the DOW said reintroducing wolves to the park would not work. "To intensely manage a pack of wolves would take an exorbitant amount of resources," Rogstad said. Fences that encompass 61 acres have been erected in three areas to protect vegetation but fencing the entire park was impractical. The vegetation serves as food for other animals such as beaver, badgers, birds and butterflies. The elk cannot be relocated because of chronic wasting disease. "Moving an animal with a potential disease is certainly not a good idea," Rogstad said. After each elk is shot, it will be tested for chronic wasting disease and then its carcass will be given away to winners of a lottery. Rogstad said 5,400 people applied to receive the meat. Selected winners will get all the meat from one carcass at no cost. The individual who gets the carcass will not get the head of the animal, which will be kept for research. Kyle Patterson, spokeswoman for RMNP, said the number of elk killed in the culling operation pales in comparison to the number of elk legally hunted in Colorado, outside the park. In 2007, 49,000 elk were killed in the state and in 2006, 57,000 elk were killed by hunters. Patterson said a total of 1,174 of those killed in 2006 and 2007 combined were in Game Unit 20, which sits right outside RMNP. Public hunting in the national park was outlawed in 1929 and it remains illegal. The culling operation will occur every weekday until mid-March, pending good weather. Rocky Mountain National Park hopes to have 100 to 200 elk killed by the end of the season. The estimated cost of the program will vary year to year, but the annual cost is estimated at $200,000, DOW officials said. Culling takes place in many areas of the country. The DOW said it is an efficient and humane way to control and reduce herds when herd populations have exceeded the carrying capacity of their habitat. There are about 600 to 800 elk in the park and 1,000 to 1,300 elk in and around the nearby town of Estes Park. Rotara/christine: here's the flip side to the "elk problem" in RMNP that should blow your mind when you combine it with EVERYTHING I've flung at FormerLurker to combat his bullshit: Source: www.thedenverch annel.com/news/18582672/detail.html Wildlife Group Wants Cease-Fire In Elk Culling DENVER -- An environmental group is asking federal officials not to go through with plans to use sharpshooters to thin the elk herds in Rocky Mountain National Park. WildEarth Guardians says in a letter sent Wednesday that the planned culling would violate a long-standing policy against most firearms in national parks. "National Parks are supposed to be sanctuaries from firearms," said Rob Edward of WildEarth Guardians. "The National Park Service is using members of the public to solve with rifles that which should be the bailiwick of wolves," said Edward. The Bush administration repealed the firearms ban, but a gun-control group is suing to have it reinstated. WildEarth Guardians also says park officials didn't fully consider the release of wolves to reduce the herds before it decided on sharpshooters. Park officials approved a plan to shoot a limited number of elk over 20 years because of overgrazing they say has damaged habitat and threatened other species. SO, DEFENDERS OF WILDLIFE IS AGAINST WOLF HUNTING/MANAGEMENT IN ALASKA (THEY START WITH BEING OUTRAGED OVER AERIAL SHOOTING, BUT IT'S REALLY ALL HUNTING). WILDEARTH GUARDIANS IS AGAINST CULLS/HUNTING OF ELK IN RMNP AND WANTS WOLVES INTRODUCED TO KILL ELK. IT COSTS $200,000 TO CULL ELK WHICH HAVE BEEN OFF- LIMITS TO HUNTING IN RMNP SINCE 1929, A HUGE MISTAKE WHICH IS SELF-EVIDENT. THE WOLF LOBBY CAN GO TO HELL.
_________________________________________________________________________ You have to wonder what the secondary effects of culling are. Didn't work out so well for elephants. Not advocating against it just wondering. Elephants are self aware so that may make a difference.
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#344. To: RickyJ (#280)
(Edited)
You stand against mercy killings of animals so they won't starve to death.
#345. To: X-15, FormerLurker (#309)
You hold no moral high ground here, you're an anti-hunter. I get my "cheap fucking thrills" exposing you for the fraud you are. Go back to El-Pee, Fred Mertz.
#346. To: X-15, FormerLurker (#311)
Nobody is killing wolves for sport from an airplane, you and the Defenders of Wildlife are a bunch of goddamn, motherfucking, lying sons-of-bitches. Eat shit and die you jackass.
#347. To: X-15, FormerLurker (#322)
(Edited)
Nobody is killing wolves for sport from an airplane, - X
#348. To: FormerLurker, X-15 (#337)
X-15: You're not to bright, boy.
#349. To: Refinersfire (#347)
#350. To: Dakmar (#349)
(Edited)
I'm gonna make any wolves on my property wear little snow plows. Where can I hire some PETA volunteers?
#351. To: Refinersfire (#346)
you and the Defenders of Wildlife are a bunch of goddamn, motherfucking, lying sons-of-bitches. Eat shit and die you jackass.
#352. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#351)
I've been too busy to visit this site for the past 10 days or so but, clearly, the level and the civility of debate here has improved much.
#353. To: Refinersfire (#352)
#354. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#353)
#355. To: Refinersfire (#350)
EDIT: I know of one here locally, that protest all of our hunting cabins, you can have him.. but once you take him, we don't want him back!
#356. To: Dakmar (#355)
Hell with politics, I just want a flunky I can dress like a reindeer and send across town with packages. Oops, I've said too much.
#357. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#353)
(Edited)
one's mind is a terrible thing to (turn to) waste.
#358. To: Dakmar (#355)
#359. To: FormerLurker (#334)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#360. To: X-15 (#359)
Aerial hunting program kills 124 wolves
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#361. To: Old Friend (#282)
The Bible is true the flood happened. Real scientists usually know this.
#362. To: FormerLurker (#334)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#363. To: X-15 (#362)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#364. To: abraxas (#361)
(Edited)
The theory of evolution is equally scientific as the theory of gravity.
#365. To: Rotara (#363)
#366. To: Rotara (#363)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#367. To: RickyJ (#308)
God made all things we can know about in six 24 hour days. He could have done it in a nano-second if he wanted to, but he chose to do it in six 24 hour days.
#368. To: Dakmar (#365)
Hyannis Port, Kennebunkport, City of London...Davos?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#369. To: X-15 (#366)
It could be called "letting the wolves clean up the sick/diseased/old/worthless democrats". That's the exact language the WOLF lobby uses to defend the imbalance in nature without management. The first explorers into the interior of Alaska n the 18th centurey almost starved due to a lack of game due to wolf predation, an inconvenient truth to be sure.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#370. To: RickyJ (#364)
Please don't mistake your amazing faith as having anything whatsoever to do with science.
#371. To: christine (#340)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#372. To: Rotara (#369)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#373. To: X-15 (#371)
#374. To: christine, X-15 (#373)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#375. To: All (#374)
And in the world of Obamalamadingdongs, if there's no hunting - there's really no need for guns !
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#376. To: X-15 (#362)
Alaskan Group Asks for Permission to Kill Wolf Pups
#377. To: Rotara (#374)
Basically, if the wolf lobby gets it's way - there will be no hunting !
#378. To: Refinersfire (#377)
And then there are those like X, that seem to have a No Limit of the how and where.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#379. To: christine (#373)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#380. To: Rotara (#374)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#381. To: Rotara, christine, FormerLurker (#378)
I don't see 'no limit' coming from X.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#382. To: X-15, Rotara, christine, (#381)
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss — The Who
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