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Title: AIR TRAFFIC TAPES (30 MIN) OF CO 3407 CRASH
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://BUFFALOGEEK.COM
Published: Feb 13, 2009
Author: ATC
Post Date: 2009-02-13 11:12:43 by IndieTX
Keywords: None
Views: 171
Comments: 6

FOLLOW my partial/incomplete transcript as a guide only to keep you from getting lost from real ATC audio link in red below

Pilots will notice possible worry/stress in a couple of responses [my opinion.] Other aircraft reported icing

***ILS RWY 23 IN USE - 2300FT MSL INITIAL APP ALT.***
***Colgan3407 is only female voice you will hear/
***Cactus is ATC code for America West***

[BUFFALO APPROACH...begins with other aircraft contacts]

CO3407 (INITIAL CONTACT) 120K DM 110K

CO3407 CD TRAVA (Intersection or Beacon)

CO3407 DM 60

CO3407 DM50

CO3407 DM40 (NO RESPONSE OR MIC CLICK ONLY)

CO3407 DM23 (2300 IS ILS APPROACH ALTITUDE FOR INITIAL APPR)

CO3407 TL330

CO3407 TL310

CO3407 TL260 3 MI FROM CLUMP (BEACON APPROX 5 MI OUT ON FINAL)
C ILS 23 (30 DEGREE INTERCEPT TO LOCALIZER)

CO3407 CT 120.5 (AIRCRAFT AT CLUMP ESTAB ON FINAL/LOCALIZER)

CO3407 APPROACH (NEVER CONTACTED TOWER)

[OTHER DL AIRCRAFT 2ND IN LINE ON APPROACH TO BUF STEERED THROUGH FINAL/ LOCALIZER FOR SEQUENCING] [CO3407 PROB GONE FROM RADAR]

APPROACH ASKS DL1938 TO LOOK BUT INSTRUMENT CONDITIONS

CO3407 CALLED NO ANSW

5MI OUT OVER THE MARKER (DISAPPR FROM RADAR)

DL1998 HOLD OVER CLUMP (FAF ON LOCALIZER) CM 40 TL270

HP 1452 ADVISES RIME ICE FOR AWHILE WHEN TOLD TO EXPECT DELAY

DL1998 ADVISES RIME ICING ACCRUED IN DESCENT HAS REMAINED

HP1452 C ILS 23 (ADVISED COLGAN DOWN FOR SURE)

HP1452 ADVISES SEES CRASH SITE ON GROUND*****

AIRCRAFT REPORTED LOCALIZER FLUCTUATION AT 1500 1 DOT (SEV HUNDRED FEET L/R OF FINAL)

Poster Comment:

FINAL 30 MIN OF COLGAN 3407 AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL AUDIO

Partial transcript as a guide above.

CO3407 is the only female voice you will hear.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 5.

#1. To: All, skydrifter (#0) (Edited)

I'm still focusing on the non-standard replies to ATC by the co-pilot. I think she was clearly nervous about a known condition which was not communicated to ATC. Her replies were not those of someone who was calm and not flying the aircraft. She sounded as if she had her hands full..I'm still thinking that some condition existed that was causing stress. Both pilots were very experienced and the non-standard replies to a few ATC instructions were..well..indicative of something..we just don't know what. It takes a lot to rattle an experienced pilot..but you have to listen to the ENTIRE audio to hear it. [Think "de-icing equipment ON, but not working?" or something mechanical going on]

Audio link in red above in poster comment section./ I hear stress in her voice even in some standard replies...but that is my perception...compare her replies to the other carriers like the DL1998 and "Cactus" (America West) pilots.

IndieTX  posted on  2009-02-15   14:12:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I couldn't detect any particular nervousness in her voice, myself. I'm wondering about the possibility that they lost their tail-feathers, due to a catastrophic mechanical failure. What was the recent maintenance history??

The NTSB is citing a brief 2-G climb, attesting to the relative airspeed & non- proximity to the stalling speed. Add that the flap extension should reduce the stalling speed.

Instant loss of control with the flaps tells me that something came apart in the tail, associated with the flap-compensating mechanism.

We'll see.

SKYDRIFTER  posted on  2009-02-15   20:28:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Well, I should rephrase that. It was her brief non-standard replies much of the time that indicated nervousness or stress...it's not really present in her voice per se..

And FWIW, I don't like the idea of a computer mechanism that "takes over" and points the nose down for stall avoidance.

Adding flaps and having everything go to hell reminds me way too much of the AS flight with the broken [large] screw controlling the elevator on the MD80. Things were fine until the pilot reduced airspeed and it all went to pieces because of the increased back pressure (and the pitch down result) required the moment the speed was reduced.. I think with your knowledge as a ATP (mine is only CP/Instr/CFI-SE), you may be on to something as far as catastrophic failure of crucial control surfaces/mechanisms...
But I think ice is more probable..and I think they were aware of a problem of some kind whatever it was, ice or not...

Stress overload will cause replies to ATC to be much briefer than usual and "non-standard."

Every aircraft reacts differently to application of flaps. Some pitch nose up and some pitch down. I'd like to know how this plane reacted.. (trim tab frozen in place??)

IndieTX  posted on  2009-02-15   21:18:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

        There are no replies to Comment # 5.

End Trace Mode for Comment # 5.

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