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Religion
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Title: A question for the Christians here
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 18, 2009
Author: Me
Post Date: 2009-02-18 11:51:14 by PSUSA
Keywords: None
Views: 528
Comments: 18

This ties in to mankinds ultimate fate. This, IMO, is a very important topic for those of us that know (OK, believe) death is not The End. it is also a topic you will NEVER hear preached on The Beast Network (TBN), CBN, or any other BN

Do words translated as "forever", "for ever", "eternal", "everlasting", etc. mean "for an infinite amount of time"?

If so, can you prove it? Please take a good look at the question. It's not a trick question. I just intentionally worded it that way.

Understanding this goes a long way in removing "contradictions" that people use to either 1) totally disregard Christianity, or 2) start yet another denomination to try and address these contradictions.

So, what sayeth thou?

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

#2. To: PSUSA (#0)

Although it is hard--indeed maybe even impossible--for finite beings with limited minds to understand "eternal" and "everlasting" I do believe in those terms. The reason I believe them is that the Bible teaches them so I think there is a life beyond this one. But that is just what I think and not anything I can prove.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-02-18   11:56:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Do words translated as "forever", "for ever", "eternal", "everlasting", etc. mean "for an infinite amount of time"?

Look at the question. I'm not asking about whether or not you believe that this means an infinite amount of time. If you believe that, that's OK, but I ask a specific question that has nothing to do with beliefs.

On what exactly do you base your beliefs about this topic on?

Sam Houston gave an answer based on an experience he had. OK, fair enough. I have my own ideas on NDEs but that is another topic.

PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-18   12:56:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I've extensively researched the topic of NDEs, and have come to some conclusions of my own. While I believe that I'm correct in these conclusions, I'm certainly willing to discuss and debate them, since I freely acknowledge the fact that I could be wrong.

Here's what I've managed to put together from the experiences reported by the vast majority of people who have had NDEs, while tossing out extraneous data points that do not conform to the reports of the vast majority (some who have supposedly experienced NDEs that ended up reading exactly like transcripts from Dante's Inferno, for example, or excessively weighted towards expectations as generated by strong belief in any particular religion).

First observation: Those who have had NDEs nearly universally become less extreme in their religious beliefs, and become more spiritual in their beliefs and practices. The hard-core atheist suddenly becomes convinced that there really is more than just this life, the hard-core bible thumper suddenly becomes far less strict in their beliefs in doctrines and ex cathedra teachings and far more willing to listen to the views and beliefs of others, and more importantly both become far more interested in actually reaching out to others in the spirit of compassion and service.

Second observation: Those who have had NDEs nearly universally lose all fear of death or dying. They view it not as an end or as a passage to some judgement inflicted by a vengeful deity, and instead view it as a natural part of a continuing cycle of life.

Third observation: Actual events experienced during NDEs are largely influenced by two things - the actual behavior (karmic load/debt) incurred by the experiencer, and their social/cultural indoctrination and teaching. Many Christians experience an encounter with a being they regard as being "Christ", while others describe encounters with "God", or a loved one, or a "being of infinite compassion and love". Others who have chosen to live in a selfish and/or violent way during their life have reported experiencing encounters with hellish entities who turned on them and inflicted grave and extremely painful harm, until they were utterly humbled and destroyed, and found themselves praying to God. At this point God (or another spiritual entity from the "good team") would intervene, lift them out of their torment, and then cause them to experience their life again, while reviewing it with them. For many, this "life review" becomes even worse torment than the assault by the demonic entities, although the deity/spirit guide will mercifully pause the review multiple times to allow the NDE experiencer to compose themselves when needed.

Fourth observation: Nearly universally reported components of the NDE experience include "life review", "existing outside of time", encounters with non-corporeal beings (deceased family members and others), acknowledgement of the reality of "karma", "lower" and "higher" realms of reality that one goes to depending on the karma created during this and/or other lives, acknowledgement of the power of "love", "light" and "sound" as being very real, very vital components of the fundamental fabric of reality, and "destruction of the ego", as the sense of "self" is ripped away - a pleasant and liberating experience for some, a brutal and crushing experience for others.

(Another frequently reported experience - and one I found particularly unexpected and surprising - was the acknowledgement of the power of signs of the zodiac as being representative of a multitude of aspects of personality and this reality, symbols and archetypes that increase understanding of multiple parts of the human experience. In much the same way as one would not expect flowers to bloom in winter but would expect snow and bitter cold, or one would expect lush greenery and no snow in summer, so too do various ideas, ideals and events thrive or disappear in different times relative to the "precession of the equinoxes".)

After researching NDEs, I came to the conclusion that religions have a vital and persistent "staying power" due to the fact that the vast majority of people instinctively understand and recognize that there is, in fact, more than just this reality. Unfortunately, due to the greed, selfishness and desire for power that many have, religions become twisted around by those who wish to obtain power over others and eventually end up so severely distorted that they end up causing more harm than good.

There's a lot more than just this to discuss, but the best thing to do is to look up what those who have experienced NDEs themselves have to say. If it was just a handful of deluded souls happily burbling away about "wonderful places", with no consistent themes or conclusions regarding their views and behavior after their NDEs, it would be easy to simply reject it and them out of hand and regard it as simply the hallucinations experienced by a dying brain stem flooded by an overwhelming core-dump of endorphins. However, the sheer magnitude of the various reports, the astonishing consistencies between those reports, and the changes in behavior and worldview that have resulted after many NDEs have convinced me personally that there is, in fact, more than just this life. However, this has not in any way softened my animosity towards most religions in general and the big "desert trinity" (Judiasm, Christianity and Islam) in particular, since I view them all as primarily being instruments of repression and statecraft.

Elliott Jackalope  posted on  2009-02-18   17:42:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

the hard-core bible thumper suddenly becomes far less strict in their beliefs in doctrines and ex cathedra teachings and far more willing to listen to the views and beliefs of others, and more importantly both become far more interested in actually reaching out to others in the spirit of compassion and service.

I had many of the experiences you describe here.

Although I wouldn't have been described as a "hard-core bible thumper" before I nearly died, I did become more open about other beliefs.

And I no longer attend the Baptist church I did beforehand, mainly because I just felt that the "spirit of God" had left that place. This was during the height of the local Baptists' "Bush worship/war on Islam" which was both terrifying and also quite amusing to behold.

Whatever entity it was that was guiding me around for that interval of time when I left my body clearly told me that only love survives physical death and to try to practice it better for the rest of my life until it really WAS my time.

I still don't know how I survived and made a full recovery from what happened to me. It was pretty miraculous. I was walking along the side of the road and a Chevrolet Suburban ran off the road, hitting me head on. There was a witness aside from myself. He and I both agree the Suburban was going about 40 mph. Fortunately it wasn't out on the highway where she would have been going 70 or I wouldn't be typing this.

The part of the Christian religion that consigns people to hell for not "believing on Jesus" is something I no longer believe, although I have not renounced my born-again experience, which was very real to me at the time. It's a relief not to have to worry about my "heathen" dad roasting in hell anymore. I'll leave it up to a merciful God to have taken care of my father when he died of cirrhosis of the liver at age 60. He's in a better place now than he was when he was a hopeless alcoholic the last 20 years of his life.

Sam Houston  posted on  2009-02-18   19:31:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#17. To: Sam Houston (#16)

I never understood God until I was a Father. I've never known such love as for my babies.
How much more must God love us? I am at peace.
I no longer worry about silliness like hellish ghouls
and brimstone after death.
We as humans creat our own Evil. No God or Devil makes humans
commit the atrocities that happen every day on this Earth.
As such, the Hell that exists is right here. JMO.
IF there IS anything after death, which I'm not entirely sure about,
I do know I'm not worried about it.

IndieTX  posted on  2009-02-19 06:54:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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