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Title: HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?
Source:
News With Views
URL Source: http://www.newswithviews.com/Bill/sizemore166.htm
Published: Feb 20, 2009
Author: Bill Sizemore
Post Date: 2009-02-21 16:41:43 by Rotara
Keywords: None
Views: 684
Comments: 47
Many Christians are under the impression that if you believe the Bible, then you must believe that the earth is 6,000 years old. But is this so? Christians come to the 6,000 year conclusion, not based on something the Bible says about the age of the earth, but by tracking the biblical genealogies from Jesus back to Adam, which add up to about 4,000 years, and then adding in the 2,000 years from Christ until now. From a biblical perspective, this approach tells us approximately how long man has been around, but as we shall see, it does not necessarily tell us how long the earth has been around. Modern scientists, on the other hand, generally claim that the earth is more like five billion years old. They dismiss the 6,000 year claim as absurd, believing they have reams of conclusive evidence of a much older planet. Scientists mock those “ignorant, Bible-thumping, fundamentalist Christians” and their 6,000 year doctrine, while Christians damn those “godless, atheistic, Bible-rejecting scientists,” who claim the earth is five billion years old. With some trepidation, I toss my two cents into the fire. Here are the questions I will raise and attempt to answer: (1) Is the real age of a material thing, if it was created supernaturally, what it appears to be? As we will see, the Bible answers this question. Let’s begin with this very real possibility: Christians are trying to defend a theory that the Bible may not teach. Biblical evidence for the claim that the earth is only six thousands years old is hardly conclusive. The Bible opens with the well known passage, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth…” and a little later it says, “and the evening and the morning were the first day.” In this brief passage of scripture we are told simply that God created the world. The passage doesn’t tell us how long God took to do that - only that He did it on the first day of creation, whatever “day” means in this passage. This description doesn’t tell us whether time existed on day one, when God created the earth, or if time began later. It is at least possible that time did not yet exist. We know from many scriptures that God dwells in eternity, the ever present “now,” which at least makes it possible that “in the beginning” was before the creation of time or what we call the time/space continuum. We do know this about time: Time is a temporary thing and in the last book of the Bible God ends it. Based on what we see happening later, it is unlikely that the first day of creation was a day as we use that term: On the very first day of creation, God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. We are not told what the source of that light was. It is important to note that it was not the sun. Genesis says that on the first day, God separated the light from the darkness and called the light day and the darkness night. There was light on the first day, but there was not yet a sun. God did not make the sun and moon until the fourth day! (See Genesis 1:14-19.) Let’s step back and look at this for a moment. It is generally believed that Moses wrote the Book of Genesis. Moses lived approximately 2,500 years after Adam was created. That’s a long time later. Obviously, the only thing the author of Genesis could have known about the first day of creation was what God told him. The author of Genesis, knowing that the sun was not created until the fourth day, wrote that there was light on the first day. He obviously knew when he wrote this that the sun is what lights the day. That fact has been self-evident to all men at all times. If the author of Genesis was merely making up the creation story and wanted to be credible, he would have said that the sun was created on the first day and provided light for the earth from then on. But he didn’t. He wrote what was he was told to write about the first day, even if he didn’t understand it. The Bible doesn’t tell us the source of this pre-sun light. The most likely answer is God himself. The Bible teaches that God dwells in unapproachable light. The Bible also teaches that in the heavenly city, the Lamb (Jesus Christ) is the light of the city. Another question that springs to mind is: If there was no sun on the first day, how do we know how long the first day lasted? For us, a day lasts 24 hours. That fact is based on the time it takes for the earth to rotate one time on its axis facing the sun. A year is based on the amount of time it takes for the earth to orbit the sun one time. With no sun, there is no basis for knowing how long the first day lasted, or the second or the third. In fact, there is no basis for knowing how long it took God to do any of the things He did before the fourth day of creation. They could have happened instantaneously or gradually. There was no way to measure that. The sun is the God-ordained instrument for measuring time on the earth. It must therefore be an open question whether time existed before the fourth day of creation. If it existed, there was no basis for measuring it. Some Christian scholars insist that the days of creation were 24-hour days, because the Hebrew word translated “day” in Genesis 1:5 (before the creation of the sun) is the same Hebrew word used elsewhere in the Old Testament to mean a 24-hour day. This is not a very persuasive argument. Hebrew words are not always precise or specific. The meaning of a Hebrew word is often determined by its context. Also, there are several examples in scripture of the word translated “day” not meaning a 24-hour period. Now, let’s look at the fourth day of creation. What God says about the reasons He created the sun is instructive. Genesis 1:14: “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and for years…” The passage goes on to explain that one great light (the sun) would rule over the day and give light upon the earth and a lesser light would rule over the night. Notice that the sun was created on the fourth day, not just to provide light, but also to determine seasons and days and years or one might say, to determine time. One would logically infer from this passage that if God created the sun to determine days and seasons and years, there was no way to tell days and seasons and years before that. If the sun was created to measure days and years, those days of creation mentioned before the creation of the sun could have been of any length or perhaps of no length at all. As strange as it sounds, it’s possible that there was no “time” at all before God created the sun. When one is speaking of the great “I AM,” the “Ancient of Days” who dwells in eternity, one could argue either way. After all, time is for us, not for Him. Now, nothing we have said thus far tells us that the earth is five billion years old, as scientists claim. In fact, even if carbon dating and other methods scientists use for estimating age were sound and reliable, which they are not, those employing those methods still could be entirely wrong in the conclusions they reach. Why? Because the earth may appear to be very old and yet not be. Such is the nature of supernaturally created things. For example, when God formed the first man, Adam was a full grown adult, not a baby. When Adam was only one hour old, he had a fully formed adult body. That’s the way God made him. If a doctor had given Adam a thorough examination one hour after God had made him, Adam would have appeared to have been a perfect specimen of a human male of perhaps twenty to twenty-five years of age. Scientific evidence would have informed the doctor of Adam’s age, the doctor would have been fully convinced of that age, but the scientific evidence would have led him to a false conclusion. Adam was still only one hour old. When Jesus miraculously turned pots of water into wine, as is chronicled in the second chapter of the Gospel of John, the master of the feast concluded after tasting this brand new wine that the host of the feast had broken with tradition and saved the best wine for last. Things that have been created or made supernaturally are not subject to scientific tests to determine their age. Scientists may be able to “prove” to their satisfaction that created things are much older than they really are. However, created things exist simply because God spoke them into existence. No matter how old they may appear to be, their true age cannot be determined. For this reason, scientists who deny the reality of creation lock themselves into a set of rules that are entirely inapplicable to created things. Their unbelief prevents true scientific enquiry into the nature of created things and makes them susceptible to convoluted, contrived theories. Furthermore, there are plenty of common sense reasons to call into question science’s five billion year theory. For example, at the current rate of measurable erosion the earth’s mountain ranges would be flat, if the earth were billions of years old. Slowly but steadily, wind, rain, ice, snow, and avalanches are eroding the mountains at a measureable rate that precludes an earth-age in the billions of years. At the current rate at which the Mississippi River delta is forming, as silt flows down the muddy Mississippi to its mouth at the Gulf of Mexico, the Mississippi delta would reach all the way to Africa, if the earth was five billion years old. Perhaps you recall when the first spacecraft landed safely on the moon? That first craft was equipped with large, round dishes for feet, so the craft would not sink into the thick lunar dust. Based on the five billion year theory, scientists concluded that the moon must be covered with lunar dust several feet deep. When the craft landed, however, it was discovered that there was only a thin layer of dust, perhaps a few thousand years worth. This discovery flatly contradicted the five billion year theory upon which the craft had been designed. Consider this: Modern scientists claim that dinosaurs walked the earth hundreds of millions of years ago, long before the first man. They state with “authority” that such and such a dinosaur lived at such and such a time in some far distant age. This may come as news to you, but credible archaeological evidence seriously undermines this widely accepted theory. Modern man began discovering and identifying fossil remains of the major dinosaurs only two or three hundred years ago. Early paleontologists immediately began naming and cataloging these “terrible lizards.” They also created drawings of the various dinosaurs, guessing what they looked like based on their bone structure. However, there are serious problems with the estimated age of dinosaur fossils. There exist many examples across the world of 1,000 to 3,000 year old cave drawings, tapestries, and ornate stone engravings depicting scenes of dinosaurs and humans together. These artifacts predate modern man’s discovery of dinosaur fossils by thousands of years and yet show unmistakable depictions of many of the dinosaurs we know today, including stegosaurus, brontosaurus, triceratops, and tyrannosaurus rex. The older drawings depict living creatures almost identical to those in the modern artwork, which is based on fossil remains. Some of these ancient artifacts show men fighting dinosaurs and even men being eaten by dinosaurs. Also, the Book of Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, contains a detailed, rather fascinating description of a living creature that appears to be a very large dinosaur. The description is not presented in Job as mythical or fictitious, but as that of a real, living creature. As for the enormous size of some dinosaur fossils, consider this: In the days prior to the Flood of Noah, we are told that several men lived to be more than 900 years old. If we apply that same kind of lifespan to reptiles, imagine how large and heavy some of those predeluvian creatures would have been. Unlike mammals, reptiles continue to grow during their entire lifespan. You probably didn’t see this on a major television network, but in 2005 a fossilized bone of a T-rex was discovered to have soft tissue still inside it. This shocking discovery challenges everything scientists thought they knew about the age of dinosaur fossils. The finding of real soft tissue from a real dinosaur clearly suggests the T-rex bone was not nearly as old as formerly believed. There is even a fossilized footprint of a human with a dinosaur footprint on top of the man’s print, clearly demonstrating that at some time in history a dinosaur stepped on a man’s footprint. More often than not, modern scientists knowingly place themselves at odds with what the Bible says about the origins of the earth and the beginnings of life. Rather than exploring God’s creation to unlock the mysteries He has hidden there, as scientific pioneers such as Sir Isaac Newton did a few hundred years ago, scientists today often interpret the data they gather so as to disprove obvious realities about God, realities that the Bible says are “clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made.” Creation displays the awesome power of God as well as His infinite intelligence and creativity. Creation is the starting point of all true science. In Summary, there is probably no way to know the age of the earth. As we have seen, there are plenty of reasons to doubt the five billion year theory. If dinosaurs and man walked the earth at the same time, as credible evidence suggests, then everything science tells us about geological ages collapses. Along this same line, certain sciences routinely employ a type of circular logic to prove questionable points, such as basing the age of geological layers on the fossils found in those layers and basing the age of fossils on the geological layers in which they are found, which taken as a whole proves absolutely nothing. On the other hand, the so-called Christian theory that the earth is only 6,000 years old seems unnecessarily restrictive. I would accept the 6,000 year doctrine in a heartbeat, if the Bible taught it, but I don’t think it does. If the sun, which God created to measure years and days, was not created until the fourth day of creation, then the actual length of the earlier days of creation is simply not known, which tells us the earth could be older than 6,000 years, perhaps by a lot. And if God created the earth in eternity and not in time, and if time itself did not begin until the sun was created on the fourth day, then all discussion of age prior to that time is meaningless. Also, as if to throw a curve ball into the entire discussion, the Apostle Peter wrote almost two thousand years ago that a day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as one day. If the apostle meant that literally, those days of creation could have lasted a thousand years each, making the earth more like twelve thousand years old. If on the other hand, the Apostle used “a thousand years” simply to mean “a great quantity,” which is often the case in scripture, then the question remains wide open. Frankly, I don’t lose sleep over the age of the earth. It’s an interesting topic for discussion, but what God demands of us regarding the earth is that we acknowledge that this planet and all its living creatures were brought into existence by Him, by his spoken Word. Those who reject that fundamental truth, no matter what title or degree they hold, are not really scientists at all.
(2) Is it possible to determine the age of any physical thing without first determining whether it was created in time or in eternity?
(3) Were the days of creation, which are described in the first chapter of Genesis, twenty-four hours long, or could they have been much longer?
(4) Is it possible to be truly scientific, if you reject the fact that the earth and its creatures were supernaturally created by God “ex nihilo” or out of nothing?
Now, in order for this newly created wine to have been the best wine, it would have had to have been aged for some time, at least to fermentation. A scientific test of this new wine would have proved conclusively that it was older than it was, perhaps by several years. The tests would have been scientifically correct, but the conclusion reached would have been wrong. The wine was minutes old and yet had the physical characteristics of wine of an older age.
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#1. To: Rotara (#0)
If you ask the Turtle on whose back the Earth sits, he can tell you.
At the current rate at which the Mississippi River delta is forming, as silt flows down the muddy Mississippi to its mouth at the Gulf of Mexico, the Mississippi delta would reach all the way to Africa, if the earth was five billion years old. LOL - sorry, but this is so idiotic, a LOL is all it deserves. Is the guy a product of public education or of some parochial madrassa?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
A little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!" (Wikipedia)
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
I don't know, but the more I read, the worse it so I quit half way through.
LOL, that's all I do when I consider that you're a pizz gussling berm spelching Obamalamadingdong. As if you have one shred of credibility here.
4um Traitor At the current rate at which the Mississippi River delta is forming, as silt flows down the muddy Mississippi to its mouth at the Gulf of Mexico, the Mississippi delta would reach all the way to Africa, if the earth was five billion years old. I agree. To those that disagree, look up how granite is formed. It was a mountain, and the rock is recycled by volcanic activity to form granite. Mountains aren't static. And to use the MS Delta as an example is nonsense.
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Not to mention the sedimentary rocks that you can find at the top of mountains. How did remains of seashells end up at the mountaintop? IT'S A MIRACLE!!!! As for the Miss delta, is the guy assuming the it started as a delta 5 billion years ago? He must have skipped class when they were discussing plate tectonics.
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
It is a miracle. I am a creationist. But too much of what they say is nonsense. It doesn't have to be that way. Truth is truth, no matter who says it.
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There's a lot more here
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
That is assinine. It does so say. One day and night. Reading comprehension problem?
And the rate of plate separation can be measured via GPS. How is all this incompatible with scripture? It isn't, IMO. I don't know that much about geology, but I know enough to know when I am on safe ground, and enough to say that people have been here for longer than 6000 years and the earth was not created in 6 literal 24 hr days. So much of scripture is symbolic and not literal. The truths are literal but the way to express them is not. What the answers are, I dont know. Yet. No one knows all the answers. They just often fake it. But I do know there's an answer.
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Is there an object that is at least equal to the size of the earth and is further from earth than any other object of a equal or larger size?
There is one, for sure, but we don't know how old it is. And, then, how do you establish an object's boundaries. For example, where does the Earth end and the non-Earth begins? Or, where does a Tree end? Or even George W Bush?
Antiparty - find out why, think about 'how'
Then I guess we would call you an unbelieving christian. Genesis is literal. Unless you are saying Jesus lied about it. There is no need to compromise scripture. That is showing a lack of faith. Day and night cycles are 24 hours. It was 24 hours. To believe otherwise is well stupid. You think God created the grass then it what went dark for millions of years. It doesn't pay to compromise. It just makes you look stupid when a new scientific theory comes out and you blow like the wind to that one then another.
The mountains were formed very quickly.
The flaw in the use of science to prove or disprove the Bible is its limited domain of knowledge. Often science is unable to explain and/or prove the simplest concepts. Much like mathematics scientific theories are proposed and justified/proved using flawed and/or limited knowledge only to be changed or disproved at a later date.
By all means, let's publish articles from convicted fraudsters. I note the Biblical people here have all lined up behind it.
It is now time for Atlas to shrug.
Yes, I'm sure you're right. I forgot we have someone here that Knows All.
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Genesis is literal. Unless you are saying Jesus lied about it. There is no need to compromise scripture. That is showing a lack of faith. Day and night cycles are 24 hours. It was 24 hours. To believe otherwise is well stupid. You think God created the grass then it what went dark for millions of years. It doesn't pay to compromise. It just makes you look stupid when a new scientific theory comes out and you blow like the wind to that one then another. Where do I start with that? I can't decide. So, I wont start. If you want me to say you're right, then OK, you win, you're right.
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This whole "argument" is a tautological anachronisum. And it is NOT a "fundamental truth", if it were it would be axiomatic, which the above is most certainly not. And for the author to claim he KNOWS what God is demanding of all living creatures? (like protozoa and a turd bugs??) is just a sure fire way to know the Dude's a LOON. And I'll go further-; that anybody who agrees with this delusional hallucination is like wise either a sucker or a LOON as well.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" I'm astonished at how much time and energy has been spent debating this non-issue, while at the same time our economy is collapsing, our treasury is being looted by banksters and our jobs have been shipped overseas. But no, no, don't fret about that, don't think about how we've been looted and betrayed. Nope, we have a much better issue for you proles to debate... "creationism"! Yep, religion steps up to the plate yet again and does its job to make life easier for the traitors and betrayers and robber barons and thieves who own this empire. Good job, religion! Have a scooby- snack and rest easy in the knowledge that you have, once again, taken the heat off of the oligarchs and kept the proles busy with mindless chatter about non-issues while they're all being collectively looted and raped.
No place is better than Turtle Island.
#2. To: Rotara (#0)
Furthermore, there are plenty of common sense reasons to call into question science’s five billion year theory. For example, at the current rate of measurable erosion the earth’s mountain ranges would be flat, if the earth were billions of years old. Slowly but steadily, wind, rain, ice, snow, and avalanches are eroding the mountains at a measureable rate that precludes an earth-age in the billions of years.
#3. To: Turtle (#1)
#4. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#2)
LOL - sorry, but this is so idiotic, a LOL is all it deserves. Is the guy a product of public education or of some parochial madrassa?
#5. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#2)
LOL - sorry, but this is so idiotic, a LOL is all it deserves. Is the guy a product of public education or of some parochial madrassa?
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#6. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#2)
(Edited)
For example, at the current rate of measurable erosion the earth’s mountain ranges would be flat, if the earth were billions of years old. Slowly but steadily, wind, rain, ice, snow, and avalanches are eroding the mountains at a measureable rate that precludes an earth-age in the billions of years.
LOL - sorry, but this is so idiotic, a LOL is all it deserves. Is the guy a product of public education or of some parochial madrassa?
#7. To: PSUSA (#6)
(Edited)
#8. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#7)
IT'S A MIRACLE!!!!
#9. To: PSUSA (#8)
One simply has to read the pre-plate descriptions of why the Alps or Himalaya exist to see the difference. In an attempt to answer "how" questions like "How can rocks that are clearly marine in origin exist thousands of meters above sea-level in the Dolomites?", or "How did the convex and concave margins of the Alpine chain form?", any true insight was hidden by complexity that boiled down to technical jargon without much fundamental insight as to the underlying mechanics. With plate tectonics answers quickly fell into place or a path to the answer became clear. Collisions of converging plates had the force to lift the sea floor to great heights. The cause of marine trenches oddly placed just off island arcs or continents and their associated volcanoes became clear when the processes of subduction at converging plates were understood. Mysteries were no longer mysteries. Forests of complex and obtuse answers were swept away. Why were there striking parallels in the geology of parts of Africa and South America? Why did Africa and South America look strangely like two pieces that should fit to anyone having done a jigsaw puzzle? Look at some pre-tectonics explanations for complexity. For simplicity and one that explained a great deal more look at plate tectonics. A great rift, similar to the Great Rift Valley in northeastern Africa, had split apart a single continent, eventually forming the Atlantic Ocean, and the forces were still at work in the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.
#10. To: Rotara (#0)
The Bible opens with the well known passage, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth…” and a little later it says, “and the evening and the morning were the first day.” In this brief passage of scripture we are told simply that God created the world. The passage doesn’t tell us how long God took to do that
#11. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#9)
(Edited)
#12. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#2)
#13. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#12)
#14. To: PSUSA (#11)
don't know that much about geology, but I know enough to know when I am on safe ground, and enough to say that people have been here for longer than 6000 years and the earth was not created in 6 literal 24 hr days. So much of scripture is symbolic and not literal. The truths are literal but the way to express them is not.
#15. To: PSUSA (#11)
#16. To: a vast rightwing conspirator (#13)
#17. To: Rotara (#0)
#18. To: Old Friend (#15)
The mountains were formed very quickly.
#19. To: Old Friend (#14)
Then I guess we would call you an unbelieving christian.
#20. To: Rotara (#0)
Frankly, I don’t lose sleep over the age of the earth. It’s an interesting topic for discussion, but what God demands of us regarding the earth is that we acknowledge that this planet and all its living creatures were brought into existence by Him, by his spoken Word. Those who reject that fundamental truth, no matter what title or degree they hold, are not really scientists at all.
#21. To: tom007 (#20)
 | Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. |
#22. To: Elliott Jackalope (#21)
Abortion serves to some extent as a similar diversion for the political class.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#23. To: Rotara (#0)
The Bible is very clear that the Earth was created in 24 hour days or there would be no reason to say what happened each day if it actually took billions of years or a nano-second to happen. God does not lie. Evolutionists, that think it is silly to think of God creating everything we know in just 6 days, believe no one created everything in billions of trillions of years. I would call a person crazy they believed a plane assembled itself and was perfectly safe to fly with all of the controls and engines on it. Evolutions believe human beings which are infinitely more complex than a flying machine, happened by random chance and enough time. A thinking person knows who has the greater faith, and it sure isn't those that believe God created it all.
God is always good!
#24. To: PSUSA (#18)
......and that know it all sucks bloody circumsized penises and eats bloddy foreskins and is a joo lover. But I forget its name!
Yes, I'm sure you're right. I forgot we have someone here that Knows All.
#25. To: PSUSA (#19)
I don't want you to just agree with me. I just don't understand why someone such as yourself rejects 24 hour cycles out of hand. I think you are one of the good guys. I believe you when you say you are a christian. I honestly just don't get the compromise.
If you want me to say you're right, then OK, you win, you're right.
#26. To: RickyJ (#23)
When Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights. I wonder if some of these people think he was there for 3 million years and 3 million year of nights.
The Bible is very clear that the Earth was created in 24 hour days or there would be no reason to say what happened each day
#27. To: PSUSA (#18)
Yes, I'm sure you're right. I forgot we have someone here that Knows All. Go watch the movie "the young age of the earth". It shows some pretty convincing scientific evidence to support my point. If you believe in millions of years and death and struggle to cause evolution. Then you have God telling Adam there is no death before sin. Sitting on a pile of dead bones. That is what compromise gets you. When you compromise with one thing it leads to compromise on another point. Then a lack of faith. As far as knowing it all. That would be God and he had it written in a book for us to read so we have an opportunity to know what he wanted us to know if we so choose. In other words it seems that you don't believe in the perfect word of God. Your version has a God seems to be that he lies to us and is not reliable. That we have to guess what is true and wrong in his book.
The mountains were formed very quickly.
#28. To: Elliott Jackalope (#21)
If you don't like the conversation. Then ignore the thread or shut up. You never talk about anything worthwhile. No one needs advice from you. Your advice is hellish.
#29. To: PSUSA (#19)
If you are interested in some useful knowledge. Take a look at this. I wont post the article since there are enough right now. http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v16/i1/plate.asp It is worth taking a look at.
#30. To: Elliott Jackalope (#21)
This hammer was found in a place that was dated by evolutionists as 140 million years old. As the site says maybe the dinosaurs made this hammer. 
#31. To: Old Friend, Elliott Jackalope (#28)
There is an open mind searching for the truth. That's why these Loons are called loons.
Then ignore the thread or shut up.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#32. To: Old Friend (#28)
Frothing Fundalmentalisum. The end times are here!!!!!
You never talk about anything worthwhile. No one needs advice from you. Your advice is hellish.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#33. To: Elliott Jackalope (#21) (Edited)
The origins of life and the universe are not non-issues. Everybody dies, to not think about, who we are, why we are, and how we got here, is just foolish.
God is always good!
#34. To: RickyJ (#33)
If everything was hunky-dory and everyone who wanted a job was fully employed, and rule of law existed and was applied equitably and even-handedly, if the people writing the laws in D.C. were honorable and honest, if the corporate elites were inclined to pay a living wage to their workers instead of offshoring our entire manufacturing base to China, and nobody went without health care or was afraid of ending up on the streets regardless of how hard they had worked or how willing they were to work, then yes, we could happily debate this issue until the cows came home. Heck, it would be fun, really. A luxury I'd dearly love to be able to indulge in. Unfortunately, if you've been paying attention to the news and stuff like that, we are currently in a financial crisis that threatens to dwarf the Great Depression. According to people who are in a position to know, the entire global economy came very near to totally seizing up last September, and the measures put into place to prevent that seize-up were temporary at best. We are currently dancing on the edge of a volcano, our entire nation is teetering on the precipice and threatening to tumble into an abyss of depression or worse. Civil war now looms as a distinct possibility. And during all of that, some people want to debate whether or not the earth is 6000 years old or billions of years old. It's like arguing over what station is playing on the radio while the car you're in is hurtling towards the edge of a 1200 foot high cliff. Tell you what. You go ahead and argue about what station is on the radio. Me, I'm going to try my darndest to either turn the wheel or at least apply the brakes, while letting everyone around me know that we're in a really bad situation and we need to pay attention to it before disaster befalls us all. Silly me.
| Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings. |
#35. To: Old Friend (#25) (Edited)
This thread needs some pruning. FYI, someone please learn to resize your pics. It isn't a "compromise". Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. 3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable. This is what true scientists do. This is what we all should do. But people don't do it. Who knows, maybe you're right. Maybe the entire universe was created in 6 solar days. Maybe we have only been here for 6,000 years. I don't know, I wasn't around back then. To me it is just not worth worrying about. I just have to trust the scientific process, used by those that just want to know what really happened in the past. They are the ones "searching out a matter", doing what God wants them to do. It's just in this one area that people seem to have trouble in believing scientists. They believe them when it comes to medicine, chemistry, biology, etc. They know better than we do how complex we are, and how silly it is to believe it all came about as "random chance".
I honestly just don't get the compromise.
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#36. To: PSUSA (#35)
It isn't a "compromise". Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. 3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable. This is what true scientists do. This is what we all should do. But people don't do it. Who knows, maybe you're right. Maybe the entire universe was created in 6 solar days. Maybe we have only been here for 6,000 years. I don't know, I wasn't around back then. To me it is just not worth worrying about. That is a respectable statement. You seem to think that it isn't important as long as we believe in God since it isn't central to our salvation. The way I see it is that it is a stumbling block for many people because Evolution is presented as proven science that many say disproves the existance of God and the Bible. That short circuits faith that may not get a chance to grow and maybe they will reject God later. That is the way that I see it.
This thread needs some pruning. FYI, someone please learn to resize your pics.
#37. To: PSUSA (#35)
scientific process, used by those that just want to know what really happened in the past. They are the ones "searching out a matter", doing what God wants them to do. It's just in this one area that people seem to have trouble in believing scientists. They believe them when it comes to medicine, chemistry, biology, etc. They know better than we do how complex we are, and how silly it is to believe it all came about as "random chance". I have a little disagreement with you on this part. Why do we have to trust scientists. Many (not all) of them have anti god agendas. For example Piltdown man and Lucy. There is nothing wrong with searching out and testing the Bible to see if it is true. You talk about people trusting scientists in other fields. But those fields are hard science where things can be tested and confirmed. Evolution isn't that kind of "science".
I just have to trust the
#38. To: Old Friend (#36) (Edited)
Thats cool. I see evolution as a separate topic though. Although evolutionists use the massive time scale as a way of hiding some rather unpleasant facts. As if anything is possible if there is enough time for it to happen, no matter how preposterous the "happening" is. How anyone can look outside and see life in all its ordered forms, and believe it came out of some kind of chemical ooze that was hit by lightning and life somehow spontaneously generated itself, is beyond me. .
That is the way that I see it.
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#39. To: PSUSA (#38)
That is k00l too.
#40. To: Old Friend (#37)
Yep. Just like there are pedophile priests and preachers. There's scum in every profession. IIRC "Lucy" had to be dated several times, until they got the age they wanted to get. And the thing is, it's not even human.
Why do we have to trust scientists. Many (not all) of them have anti god agendas. For example Piltdown man and Lucy.
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