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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: GEHENNA
Source: [None]
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 27, 2009
Author: Various -- Bible
Post Date: 2009-02-27 11:22:07 by richard9151
Keywords: None
Views: 228
Comments: 14

GEHENNA

(Ge·hen82;na) [Gr. form of the Heb. Geh Hin·nom82;, “Valley of Hinnom”].

This name appears 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, and whereas many translators take the liberty to render it by the word “hell,” a number of modern translations transliterate the word from the Greek ge82;en·na.—Mt 5:22, Ro, Mo, ED, NW, BC (Spanish), NC (Spanish), also the footnotes of Da and RS.

The deep, narrow Valley of Hinnom, later known by this Greek name, lay to the S and SW of ancient Jerusalem and is the modern-day Wadi er-Rababi (Ge Ben Hinnom). (Jos 15:8; 18:16; Jer 19:2, 6; see HINNOM, VALLEY OF.) Judean Kings Ahaz and Manasseh engaged in idolatrous worship there, which included the making of human sacrifices by fire to Baal. (2Ch 28:1, 3; 33:1, 6; Jer 7:31, 32; 32:35) Later, to prevent such activities there in the future, faithful King Josiah had the place of idolatrous worship polluted, particularly the section called Topheth.—2Ki 23:10.

No Symbol of Everlasting Torment. Jesus Christ associated fire with Gehenna (Mt 5:22; 18:9; Mr 9:47, 48), as did the disciple James, the only Biblical writer besides Matthew, Mark, and Luke to use the word. (Jas 3:6) Some commentators endeavor to link such fiery characteristic of Gehenna with the burning of human sacrifices that was carried on prior to Josiah’s reign and, on this basis, hold that Gehenna was used by Jesus as a symbol of everlasting torment. However, since Jehovah God expressed repugnance for such practice, saying that it was “a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart” (Jer 7:31; 32:35), it seems most unlikely that God’s Son, in discussing divine judgment, would make such idolatrous practice the basis for the symbolic meaning of Gehenna. It may be noted that God prophetically decreed that the Valley of Hinnom would serve as a place for mass disposal of dead bodies rather than for the torture of live victims. (Jer 7:32, 33; 19:2, 6, 7, 10, 11) Thus, at Jeremiah 31:40 the reference to “the low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes” is generally accepted as designating the Valley of Hinnom, and a gate known as “the Gate of the Ash-heaps” evidently opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley at its juncture with the ravine of the Kidron. (Ne 3:13, 14) It seems obvious that such “carcasses” and “fatty ashes” are not related to the human sacrifices made there under Ahaz and Manasseh, since any bodies so offered would doubtless be viewed by the idolaters as “sacred” and would not be left lying in the valley.

Therefore, the Biblical evidence concerning Gehenna generally parallels the traditional view presented by rabbinic and other sources. That view is that the Valley of Hinnom was used as a place for the disposal of waste matter from the city of Jerusalem. (At Mt 5:30 Ph renders ge82;en·na as “rubbish heap.”) Concerning “Gehinnom,” the Jewish commentator David Kimhi (1160-1235?), in his comment on Psalm 27:13, gives the following historical information: “And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”

Symbolic of Complete Destruction. It is evident that Jesus used Gehenna as representative of utter destruction resulting from adverse judgment by God, hence with no resurrection to life as a soul being possible. (Mt 10:28; Lu 12:4, 5) The scribes and Pharisees as a wicked class were denounced as ‘subjects for Gehenna.’ (Mt 23:13-15, 33) To avoid such destruction, Jesus’ followers were to get rid of anything causing spiritual stumbling, the ‘cutting off of a hand or foot’ and the ‘tearing out of an eye’ figuratively representing their deadening of these body members with reference to sin.—Mt 18:9; Mr 9:43-47; Col 3:5; compare Mt 5:27-30.

Jesus also apparently alluded to Isaiah 66:24 in describing Gehenna as a place “where their maggot does not die and the fire is not put out.” (Mr 9:47, 48) That the symbolic picture here is not one of torture but, rather, of complete destruction is evident from the fact that the Isaiah text dealt, not with persons who were alive, but with “the carcasses of the men that were transgressing” against God. If, as the available evidence indicates, the Valley of Hinnom was a place for the disposal of garbage and carcasses, fire, perhaps increased in intensity by the addition of sulfur (compare Isa 30:33), would be the only suitable means to eliminate such refuse. Where the fire did not reach, worms, or maggots, would breed, consuming anything not destroyed by the fire. On this basis, Jesus’ words would mean that the destructive effect of God’s adverse judgment would not cease until complete destruction was attained.

Figurative Use. The disciple James’ use of the word “Gehenna” shows that an unruly tongue is itself a world of unrighteousness and that one’s whole round of living can be affected by fiery words that defile the speaker’s body. The tongue of such a one, “full of death-dealing poison” and so giving evidence of a bad heart condition, can cause the user to be sentenced by God to go to the symbolic Gehenna.—Jas 3:6, 8; compare Mt 12:37; Ps 5:9; 140:3; Ro 3:13.

The Biblical use of Gehenna as a symbol corresponds to that of “the lake of fire” in the book of Revelation.—Re 20:14, 15; see LAKE OF FIRE.

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#1. To: richard9151 (#0)

If, as the available evidence indicates, the Valley of Hinnom was a place for the disposal of garbage and carcasses, fire, perhaps increased in intensity by the addition of sulfur (compare Isa 30:33), would be the only suitable means to eliminate such refuse. Where the fire did not reach, worms, or maggots, would breed, consuming anything not destroyed by the fire. On this basis, Jesus’ words would mean that the destructive effect of God’s adverse judgment would not cease until complete destruction was attained.

My my my.

What a "kind" and "loving" "god" you worship.

At least you see that "hell" is a lie, but annihilation is almost as nonsensical.

Like it or not, JW and every other form of churchianity seems to have a blind spot for those that, thru no fault of their own, have never heard the Gospel. Those people have to be accounted for, and scripture does account for them.

JW just have "god" chuck those people into some kind of eternal destruction, and the rest of churchianity thinks "eternal torture in hell" is an attribute of gods' "justice".

So, tell me, what is burned in that fire? The sin (works), or the sinner?

What does "fire" symbolize in scripture?

So tell me, whose kindness leads us to repentance?

Who seeks God on their own?

Who is responsible for all of it? Did God somehow create a faulty mankind? Did we throw Him a real curveball? Is Satan the ultimate fly in the ointment and God is left with table scraps?

Whose works are tried by that fire?

So, lets see if you can answer these things yourself, in your own words, using scripture when needed, instead of copy/pasting worthless JW tracts.

Lets see how much you understand.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   12:39:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1) (Edited)

those that, thru no fault of their own, have never heard the Gospel. Those people have to be accounted for, and scripture does account for them.

There yu go again, reading between the lines. Rather than bothering to read all of the post. There is a clear distinction made between those who will not be resurrected, and who will make that decision which is NOT US NOR YOU, and who will be resurrected, which is the vast majority of humanity.

There are very limited numbers of specific people mentioned and talked about in this post, so, where do you get your 'stuff'?

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-02-27   12:57:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: richard9151 (#2)

Nope. There is no "reading between the lines".

Now about those questions. I know answering them might be somewhat awkward...


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   13:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: PSUSA (#3)

At least you see that "hell" is a lie, but annihilation is almost as nonsensical.

So let us start here; your claim is that EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED WILL BE RESURRECTED. Correct?

The Bible shows that Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus, will not. Because of his willful wickedness, Judas is called “the son of destruction.” (John 17:12) He went to the symbolic Gehenna from which there is no resurrection. (Matthew 23:33) Persons who willfully do what is bad after knowing God’s will may be sinning against the holy spirit. And God will not resurrect those who sin against his holy spirit. (Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26, 27) However, since God is the Judge, there is no reason for us to try to figure out whether certain wicked people in the past or in modern times will be resurrected or not. God knows who is in Hades and who is in Gehenna. For our part, we should do everything we can to be the kind of persons that God wants in his new system.—Luke 13:24, 29.

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-02-27   13:56:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: richard9151 (#4)

The Bible shows that Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus, will not. Because of his willful wickedness, Judas is called “the son of destruction.” (John 17:12) He went to the symbolic Gehenna from which there is no resurrection. (Matthew 23:33) Persons who willfully do what is bad after knowing God’s will may be sinning against the holy spirit. And God will not resurrect those who sin against his holy spirit. (Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26, 27)

OK, I dont have your translation of the Bible, so if you could, please post the scriptures referenced.

We can start there.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   14:07:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: PSUSA (#5)

John 17:12 When I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me; and I have kept them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Matthew 23:33 “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen82;na?

Matthew 12:31 “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, 27 but [there is] a certain fearful expectation of judgment and [there is] a fiery jealousy that is going to consume those in opposition. 28 Any man that has disregarded the law of Moses dies without compassion, upon the testimony of two or three. 29 Of how much more severe a punishment, do YOU think, will the man be counted worthy who has trampled upon the Son of God and who has esteemed as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? 30 For we know him that said: “Vengeance is mine; I will recompense”; and again: “Jehovah will judge his people.

And you did not answer me; is it your position that EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED IS TO BE RESURRETED (TO ETERNAL LIFE)?

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-02-27   14:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: richard9151 (#6)

John 17:12 When I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me; and I have kept them, and not one of them is destroyed except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture might be fulfilled.

OK, Judas died. That is what the "destroyed" in the above scripture means.

www.studylight.org/lex/gr...&book=joh&translation=nsn

Look at how it is used throughout scripture.


Matthew 23:33 “Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are YOU to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen82;na?

That speaks of the judgement, not the sentence. I dont ever recall anyone ever saying there was not going to be a judgment. Judgment is going on right now, for the true church. It's the same kind of judgment, judgment by fire.

1 Pet 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

1 Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Pet 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

etc.


Lunch time. I'll be back.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   14:46:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: PSUSA (#7)

OK, Judas died. That is what the "destroyed" in the above scripture means.

I will never be able to understand how you would read that Scripture that way. Not when it says specifically that he perished. Losing his life in this world is no big thing, IF, you believe in the resurrection. The perish that is used there is permenant.

That speaks of the judgement, not the sentence.

It says, "the judgement of gehenna". That is a sentence. Period.

It's the same kind of judgment, judgment by fire.

REALLY?! Then the statement made by Jesus Christ that he will judge as his Father directs, is just fluff? “Jehovah will judge his people.”

And you did not answer me; is it your position that EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED IS TO BE RESURRETED (TO ETERNAL LIFE)?

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-02-27   15:03:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: richard9151 (#8) (Edited)

OK, I'm back...

Now what have we here?

I will never be able to understand how you would read that Scripture that way. Not when it says specifically that he perished. Losing his life in this world is no big thing, IF, you believe in the resurrection. The perish that is used there is permenant.

Last time I checked, perished means died.

Did you forget how tenuous the situation was when Christ was arrested? His disciples could have easily died too. All of them.

Prove, using the only thing that matters: Scriptures, that it is "permanent".


It says, "the judgement of gehenna". That is a sentence. Period.

But this does not tell you what Gehenna is. It is the same purifying fire that his church is going thru right now. I posted scripture proving this, please do likewise.

But here is another one, as a witness:

1 Corinthians 3

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Notice the words "any man" and "every man"? Not to leave the ladies out of it, they are included. Any man. It includes believers and unbelievers. Never mind the fact that it is the Father that leads us to His Son, we dont do it by our supposedly mighty free-wills.


REALLY?! Then the statement made by Jesus Christ that he will judge as his Father directs, is just fluff? “Jehovah will judge his people.”

I neither said, or hinted, at that.

And you did not answer me; is it your position that EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED IS TO BE RESURRETED (TO ETERNAL LIFE)?

My "position" doesn't mean squat. What does scripture say?

John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. (But according to theologians, He will fail)

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (But according to theologians, He will fail)

1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (But according to theologians, He will fail)

Luke 15:4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? (But according to theologians, He will fail)

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Do you really think He will fail?)

Want more?

All means all, except to theologians. Christ either did what He set out to do, or He failed.

JW are just like any other churchianity group. Your "lord" is a failure.

Dress it up as pretty as you can, try and tell everyone how merciful to those he doesn't choose in this lifetime by just destroying them, but the truth stands.

Either that, or He is a respecter of persons after all. Either He is sovereign, or He's not.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   15:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: richard9151 (#6)

Matthew 12:31 “On this account I say to YOU, Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.

That is a bad translation.

The word translated as "system of things" is aion, which means an age. "System of things" is total nonsense.

The JKV is not much better because it uses the word "world". The greek for world is kosmos.

So, how many ages are there? Here's to show you I can cut-n-paste too.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/EternalPunishmentNotTrueToGreek.html

There is "the coming eon" (Matt.10:30, Luke 18:30 There is "the present wicked eon" (Gal.1:4) There is "the oncoming eons (future)(Eph.2:7) There is "the conclusion of the eon (present) (Mt.13:39,40) There is "the secret concealed from the eons (past) (Eph.3:9)

The Hebrews scripture speak of judgment. No one ever said there was no judgment.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   15:53:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: PSUSA (#9)

And you did not answer me; is it your position that EVERYONE WHO EVER LIVED IS TO BE RESURRETED (TO ETERNAL LIFE)?

I would say that you made that fairly clear;

Your "lord" is a failure.

If Jesus Christ did not save, for resurrection and life eternal, EVERY man and woman who ever lived, then he is a failure.

If that were the case, then there would be absolutely no need for judgement.

I think we have nothing further to discuss.

Although I will add that I find it hard to believe that anyone can read the Bible and excuse the actions of those who deliberately refused the Christ Jesus when he walked the earth, and esp. the son of perdition.

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-02-27   16:26:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: richard9151 (#11) (Edited)

If that were the case, then there would be absolutely no need for judgement.

No need for judgment? Where oh where do you come up with this?

You seem to equate judgment with God destroying the vast majority of His creation. Anything less than this and He is giving people a "free pass"? Oh really? My what a small god you have. God simply MUST destroy most people or else it's not really a judgment, right?

And who deliberately refused Him? His sheep know his voice.

Jesus did not convert one single person in His earthly ministry. Not one. So, how can anyone deliberately refuse Him? Deliberation necessitates full knowledge. If they didnt have a clue what He was saying, how can it be "deliberate"?

Imagine yourself by the sea, tending your nets. Some stranger comes up and says "follow me". Now tell me you wouldn't say "And why should I do that". But they dropped what they were doing, and followed him. Their "free will" did not enter into the equation.

And Saul, well, he had no choice in the matter either, and if scripture is to be believed, HE was the worst sinner ever. He admitted it. There was none of this nonsense of getting on his knees and praying some kind of scripted "sinners prayer". He was converted in a flash, but you seem to think that the rest of the people will simply never be able to be converted by their sovereign creator. Amazing.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   16:44:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PSUSA (#12)

So, how can anyone deliberately refuse Him? Deliberation necessitates full knowledge.

No knowlege. Right. Which is why Jesus referenced the Bible of that day so often, saying, "it was written" or "so it was written". And, they have personal knowledge of the miricles he performed, so they knew exactly who and what he was, and still refused him.

But, none of that matters, because you will never accept that man has the right to refuse to serve. Which is why you are so adamant about some things.

This is pretty much your position;

Free Will

(Reply to a letter raising objections on this point)

I AM in disagreement with articles published in The Watchtower dated June 1, 1953. There is no such thing as a “free” will; and the only freedom human beings can ever experience is that which is conveyed upon them when they give their hearts to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and are born of the spirit.— J. H. N., England.

Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.

richard9151  posted on  2009-02-27   18:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: richard9151 (#13)

Man, you sure are selective about what you choose to reply to. I go thru your posts point by point, but you seem to have trouble doing that.

They did not all know who He was.

The ones that knew who He was were those that the Father chose to reveal Him to. But this flies right in the face of JW and churchianitys' doctrines that say that WE are the ones that make the "choice" of our own "free will".

Tell me, how many times does Christ have to say "You didnt choose me, I chose YOU"! Do you understand that? John 6:70 and John 15:16.

Small wonder you dont want to talk about that...

Here it is:

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Notice that He didnt say "So you figured it out. You saw what I do, and you know the scriptures, so you came to the right conclusion". He didnt say anything like that, did He.

But knowing this did not mean they understood what He was talking about. Because they didnt understand until Pentecost.


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PSUSA  posted on  2009-02-27   19:02:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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