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Title: Why Jehovah's Witnesses Shun PeopleIs Disfellowshipping A Christian Practice? (Disfellowship - A Hybrid and Loaded Word)
Source:
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URL Source: http://knol.google.com/k/paul-morri ... s-shun-people/290ks3g12r97j/3#
Published: Feb 27, 2009
Author: Paul Morrison
Post Date: 2009-02-27 22:32:12 by Coral Snake
Keywords: Jehovah, Disfellowshipping, Shunning
Views: 524
Comments: 42
Disfellowship - A Hybrid and Loaded Word For context about 1% of Jehovah’s Witnesses are disfellowshipped every year; about 70,000 per annum. Two out of three are never reinstated. Along with those that have simply stopped attending the group meetings, likely there are millions of disfellowshipped and disassociated ex-Jehovah's Witnesses in the community. Being disfellowshipped frequently results in emotional side effects. Those that continue to believe Watchtower doctrine are told that, whilst disfellowshipped, they are condemned to everlasting destruction. Those who become unbelievers, with no intention of returning to the Watchtower Society, realize they are unlikely to freely associate with Witness family and friends for the remainder of their lives. “Disfellowship” and its derivatives do not appear in the Bible. The Watchtower Society has taken several Scriptures and hybridized a belief. They have wrapped a complex series of concepts into one word. If an active Jehovah’s Witness hears ‘xxxx has been disfellowshipped’ those four or five words communicate the following thoughts: xxxx has done something really bad, probably salacious, as the Witnesses are frequently reminded the vast majority of disfellowshippings are for some sort of sexual sin xxxx has not been repentant, or at least not been able to demonstrate that to a sufficient degree for the Judicial Committee that make the secret judgment xxxx has been cast out and never to be spoken to again, unless he can prove repentance to another secret Judicial Committee and resume activity as a Jehovah’s Witness xxxx will be destroyed ‘soon’ by Jehovah at Armageddon unless he can prove repentance to another Judicial Committee and resume activity as a Jehovah’s Witness All neatly wrapped up in one word – disfellowshipped. The subject of ‘loaded language’ and how it is employed by high control groups deserves its own Knol. The Watchtower Society decrees disfellowshiping for situations never discussed in the Bible such as smoking, gambling, taking a prohibited blood fraction or donating to the blood supply. Further, the refusal to shun one so disfellowshipped is in itself grounds for disfellowshipping and is thus extended as a second generation punishment to prevent family members associating with disfellowshipped relatives. Unbaptized minor children of disfellowshipped ones are usually caught up in the crossfire - my pre-school boys are being shunned by my brother and his wife, and effectively shunned by my mother - an occasional postcard from her to them is allowable to her conscience. The punishment applies forever, or until the Watchtower Society formally reinstates the person. It is considered irrelevant whether the person no longer practices the 'wrongdoing' they were disfellowshipped for. In the case of conscientious disagreement a pardon or apology is not granted should the Watchtower Society subsequently change its view on the matter to that which you were expelled for holding. Repentance is indicated by full attendance at Watchtower Society meetings for an indeterminate period of months or maybe years in extreme cases, all the while being methodically shunned by other group members. In this sense it is a deterrent control mechanism on existing members and a punitive measure against the shunned one. The Watchtower Society application of disfellowshipping is one of the more extreme even for fringe Christianity and emulates behavioral characteristics common amongst high control groups. Perhaps only the Amish impose this punishment with more destructive effects, due to their physically isolated closed community. The Watchtower 1981 September 15 p.22 explains the hybrid concept: ""disfellowshipping" is what Jehovah’s Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer. ... a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshipped person?" Back in the less forgiving 1950’s the tone of the instruction was somewhat less cordial. This Watchtower was devoted to delivering clear guidelines on updated Watchtower disfellowship policy, clarifying what was to become an ever increasing list of offenses: “Well, the reason for disfellowshipping is that some persons get into this congregation of God that do not love Christ. … Those who are acquainted with the situation in the congregation should never say ‘Hello’ or ‘Goodbye’ to him. He is not welcome in our midst, we avoid him. … Such an individual has no place in the clean organization or congregation of God. He should go back to the wicked group that he once came from and die with that wicked group with Satan’s organization.” - Watchtower 1952 March 1 pp.131,134 Interestingly disfellowshipping as a punishment even extends beyond death. So when I die in a disfellowshipped state, which I will, former friends and Jehovah's Witness family already have written instruction on why they shouldn't attend my funeral. "We never want to give the impression to outsiders that a disfellowshiped person was acceptable in the congregation when in truth and in fact he was not acceptable but had been disfellowshiped from it." Questions from Readers - Watchtower 1961 p.544 "… A Christian congregation would not want its good name besmirched by having it associated with any to whom 2 John 9, 10 applied, even in their death." Watchtower 1977 June 1 p. 347 Mourning and Funerals - For Whom?
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#1. To: Coral Snake (#0)
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And I suppose they do "love Christ"? Their lack of mercy is astounding. It's one thing to acknowledge the right to self defense and be quite ruthless in that respect, it's another matter entirely to make this "eternal". I suppose they see this as a corporate self defense instead of personal self defense. We all have problems we have to deal with. I sure know I have mine! But I suppose those religious rulers have it all figured out and dont sin... Yeah, I'm sure that's it. They have the perfect religious corporation and must defend it at all costs... Hence the cultish nature of JW. Isn't this similar to the catholic excommunication? At least they dont see those disfellowshipped being tortured and burned in real fire for all time. Their "god" is more "merciful" than that.
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Actually, the figure is about 40,000. And to state that there are millions of such is a deliberate lie when the total of Jehovah's Witnesses world wide is known to be just over 7,000,000. So, congrats on spreading deliberate lies again. As to disfellowshipping, I absolutely agree with it. 1 Peter 5:1 Therefore, to the older men among YOU I give this exhortation, for I too am an older man with [them] and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, a sharer even of the glory that is to be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God in YOUR care ... Galatians 6:1 Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, YOU who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted. Titus 3:9 But shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile. 10 As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; 11 knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned. 1 Timothy 1:19 holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning [their] faith. 20 Hy·me·nae82;us and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme. All of you talk about how neccessary it is to clean up the nation, get rid of the criminals and deceivers and false freedom lovers..... but you are liars and hypocrits because when you find an organization that does exactly that -- and works diligently to keep itself clean ACCORDING TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES, you can do nothing but find fault with them. 1 Corinthians 5:1 5 Actually fornication is reported among YOU, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain [man] has of [his] father. 2 And are YOU puffed up, and did YOU not rather mourn, in order that the man that committed this deed should be taken away from YOUR midst? 3 I for one, although absent in body but present in spirit, have certainly judged already, as if I were present, the man who has worked in such a way as this, 4 that in the name of our Lord Jesus, when YOU are gathered together, also my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 YOU hand such a man over to Satan And to continue; this is what it is all about; 1 Corintians 1:12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.” If there be anyone who does not understand this, fine, and if there be those who understand and do not agree, get thee away from me, Satan. And just for clarification, I will point out that there is always a method whereby disfellowshipped can be readmitted to the Congregation, and many are each year. Included in this is visits by the Congregation elders with each every year, unless such is refused. As a free will choice, each disfellowshipped individual must make their own decision as to what course they are to take. The Christian Congregation. The Christian congregation, while having no secular authority as a court, may take action against disorderly members who require spiritual discipline, and it can even expel them from the congregation. Therefore, the apostle Paul tells the congregation that they, that is, the representative members thereof, those having oversight, must judge those inside the organization. (1Co 5:12, 13) In writing to congregations and to overseers both Paul and Peter point out that the elders should keep a close watch on the congregation’s spiritual condition and should assist and admonish anyone who is taking an unwise or wrong step. (2Ti 4:2; 1Pe 5:1, 2; compare Ga 6:1.) Those who are causing divisions or sects are to be warned a first and a second time before congregational action is taken. (Tit 3:10, 11) But insistent practicers of sin are to be removed, expelled from the congregation. This constitutes discipline, showing to the offenders that their course of sin cannot be tolerated in the congregation. (1Ti 1:20) Paul instructs those men in the congregation having the responsibility to act as judges to gather together to hear such a matter. (1Co 5:1-5; 6:1-5) They are to accept the accusation as true only when there are two or three witnesses, weighing the evidence without prejudgment, doing nothing according to a biased leaning.—1Ti 5:19, 21. Jesus commanded his disciples that if one sinned against another, efforts should first be made to settle the matter personally between themselves. If these efforts failed and the issue was of a serious nature, they should take it to the congregation for settlement (that is, to those appointed to responsible positions in governing the congregation). Paul later admonished Christians to settle difficulties in this manner and not to be taking one another before worldly courts.—Mt 18:15-17; 1Co 6:1-8
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Liars and hypocrites, huh? It's not my .org, so I could care less what you people do to keep yourselves "pure". Just so force is not used and no one gets hurt. But how pure are the JW? One thing I have learned is that those that claim to be so very pure are some of the filthiest people out there. Hey, I am a sinner. I was born one and I'll die one. That is the way I was made. I hate it, but Paul had something profound to say about doing what we hate, and not doing as we know we should. So I am sure I'd be "disfellowshipped" by JW. I am not as "pure" as you. Perhaps you are stronger than Paul. 2 Shepherd the flock of God in YOUR care ... etc. etc. etc. You're assuming you are in the flock. You are assuming that your "shepherds" are genuine. You have taken great pains to show how often you study the Bible and discuss this among yourselves. Do you then have to be real careful to only discuss this ONLY in context of JW "teachings"? Or if you get too inquisitive do they kick you to the curb? Do they then accuse you of "Those who are causing divisions or sects"? Those are rhetorical questions. You really need to get up a lot earlier in the morning if you are going to try and fool me. You also need to be real careful of those chosen "leaders" that have the power to throw people out. Even though they are doing that person a huge favor, it can still cause damage.
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You're assuming you are in the flock. You need to learn how to read. It does not refer to one flock. It specifically says; Shepard the flock of God in YOUR care.... Do you meed me to break down the difference for you? That specifically puts the burden on ANYONE ANYWHERE that is purporting to SHEPARD any flock that claims to worship the True Almighty God. If this had been carefully learned and followed, THERE WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A HOMOSEXUAL MINISTER OR MARRIAGE IN ANY SO-CALLED CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION ANYWHERE!! Get the difference? You have absolutely no personal knowledge of the Witnesses nor what they do. You rely ONLY on what others say or post, and then agree with them. You go so far that YOU FAIL TO TRY AND HELP THOSE WHO ADHERE TO NON-SCRIPTURAL TEACHINGS JUST SO YOU CAN SLAM THE WITNESSES. I have yet to see you attempt, in any way, manner, shape or form, to help anyone shed the trinity, hell, immortal soul or other teachings. Instead, all you are interested in doing is diving into any post I make and explain to everyone who will listen how little I understand..... And how bad are the teachings of the Witnesses. Thus, as I have stated several times, confirming to everyone who reads what you post that they are absolutely correct in holding to their beliefs. Congrats. And all this while you try and argue with me about your beliefs in predestination. Fasinating, I must admit, but basically, child like in your denial of the message in the Bible. And now, once again, you are doing it again, seeking favor with other posters in order to slam the Witnesses, of which you have no personal knowledge. Which, I might add, I do have. Now, I am going to state this one more time; I am a new Witness. I did not convert to their way of thinking; I simply found that which I knew, through my faith in Almighty God, must exist. A group with which I could congregate and which strickly followed the teachings of the Bible. A group which would fulfill His Purposes on this earth, as revealed in Prophecy. You, on the other hand, have no such faith in Jehovah God, as you have stated a number of times that such a group CAN NOT exist. Have the Witnesses made errors? Oh, yes, which is exactly what I would expect to see from a group that has come out of Christendom as they shed more and more of the beliefs promoted by Christendom. For example, it took until 1926 before they stopped celebrating Xmas, finally realizing what exactly was involved. But they continue to learn, and correct what they had in error. I admire that. Please point out to me ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION THAT DOES LIKEWISE. The other part of this is that this is the only organization that explained the Bible to me exactly as I understood it, BUT also knew more about the subject than I did! Since I knew that I did not have nearly enough understanding, that was important. Joining with the Witnesses was just like coming home!! That is why I started going to the meetings, and was baptized 5 months later. Ask around; that is incredibly fast. And as I have stated many, many times; I am now associating with the best people, the most love filled people, I have ever known in my life. AND I LOVE IT!!! Oh, and you know all of the nonsense that you and others have posted about how brainwashed we are? Here is what we have been studying over the last 3 weeks; Week 1; Why Keep Your Integrity? Boy, now that is some mind bending shit, ain't it? Week 2; Will You Hold Fast to Your Integrity? More mind benders, right? Week 3; Appreciate Jesus' Unique Role in God's Purpose. I throughly enjoyed and learned a LOT from that lesson. You, of course, probably understand everything you will ever need to know, right? Or if you get too inquisitive do they kick you to the curb? What a stupid and twisted question. There are 7 million of us reading the Bible, ALL THE TIME. If a question comes up, what, you think only one individual is going to have that question?! We have a system whereby such questions are answered, and, if the question is pointed enough, they have led to changes in interpetation. That is what our organization is all about; WE ARE ALL BIBLE STUDENTS!! WE ARE NOT TEACHERS OF THE BIBLE!!!!!!! Just who do you think is the teacher, smart guy? “I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself.”—ISAIAH 48:17. That is why the Bible was given to mankind; to help him to learn HOW TO BENEFIT HIMSELF!!!!! By following Jehovah God!!!! And a big part of that learning, is learning how to distance ourselves from unbelivers. Do I need to post the verses from the Bible about that as well??
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Ya know I love ya Richard. But why do you ping me unless you want me to come on here and dismantle the cult you love ?
I did observe that you were very carful to avoid the post on the trinity, and a couple of others that I put up. So while you are dismantling me and the Witnesses, please explain one or two little niggling things to me.... OK? Why did not the trinity come fully into Christianity until the end of the 4th century, long after the apostolic fathers had passed away, as admitted by the Roman church? The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”—(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299. In addition, while you are at it, please explain to me why the Roman church used executions and threats of executions to enforce the belief in the trinity for nearly 200 years (until all opposition has died or been killed off) after it was formulated and accepted officially by the Emporer? Just little questions, ya know? Oh, and while we are at it, please explain to me why, the last time being in 1773, the Roman church banned the possesion or reading of the Bible by anyone other than the clergy. This is an important question as it is the Roman church that brought the trinity into Christianity. So, as I said, just little questions, ya know? Oh, and by all means, please do not skip this post, as I put it up thinking of you!! Identifying “the Man of Lawlessness"
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Richard, I'm not going to do this. xoxo R
Not a problem. I understand. I would not try and answer those questions either, at least, not from your view point. But I would ask, please, that you carefully consider them as you move on through life. Just for your own benefit.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Do you meed me to break down the difference for you? Yes, please do. I suppose God personally put the flock into their tender loving care. Right? There is no difference. You try and manufacture a difference. But if you trust your "shepherds", there's nothing else I can say. You have absolutely no personal knowledge of the Witnesses nor what they do. You rely ONLY on what others say or post, and then agree with them. You go so far that YOU FAIL TO TRY AND HELP THOSE WHO ADHERE TO NON-SCRIPTURAL TEACHINGS JUST SO YOU CAN SLAM THE WITNESSES. No, I go thru your posts paragraph by paragraph, usually. I dont know why I bother, though. Maybe I shouldn't. You might have inadvertently made a good point. Those that see it, see it. Those that don't, don't. I have yet to see you attempt, in any way, manner, shape or form, to help anyone shed the trinity, hell, immortal soul or other teachings. Instead, all you are interested in doing is diving into any post I make and explain to everyone who will listen how little I understand..... And how bad are the teachings of the Witnesses. Thus, as I have stated several times, confirming to everyone who reads what you post that they are absolutely correct in holding to their beliefs. Congrats. Oh but I do write and talk about those things. But again, those that see it, see it. Those that don't, don't. Arguing about it is senseless. I've been there and done that. I"ve been called some pretty interesting names over doing that very thing. What people believe is their business. We are supposed to preach the Gospel, not beat it into them, but most people have not a clue what that Gospel is. I am not going to write a book to go thru this point by point. I'll just hit the points I want to address. Besides, I get tired of doing that and it's not reciprocated. And all this while you try and argue with me about your beliefs in predestination. Fasinating, I must admit, but basically, child like in your denial of the message in the Bible. Predestination? I never heard this used in this context before. Usually the predestination crowd says that most people were created by God to be tortured in real fire for all time. My, what a loving "god". A group with which I could congregate and which strickly followed the teachings of the Bible. Nonsense. Unless you really do stone people for back-talking their parents and other such things that are documented in the Bible. You, on the other hand, have no such faith in Jehovah God, as you have stated a number of times that such a group CAN NOT exist. Oh there is a group. But it is not a man-made organization. Man will screw things up, every single time, and that is a 100% guarantee. If a question comes up, what, you think only one individual is going to have that question?! We have a system whereby such questions are answered, And therein lies the problem. I'll bet that system involves kicking it up the chain of command to await an answer from some "elder". Am I right or am I wrong? The only time I recall Christ EVER saying to consult earthly authorities is Mat 23:2 since the scribes et al knew what scripture says, they had the scrolls, but their actions never matched their words. You remember them? He didnt think too much of the religious "authorities" back then either.
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A lot more than I would trust anyone of the world. I have watched them in action, and I know, personally, of the great love they show for the flock, and for Jehovah God. but most people have not a clue what that Gospel is. You are absolutely right about that, BUT, that does not mean that we do not offer correction. We plant seeds. Somewhere, if their heart is correct, someone else will water and gradually, the seed will sprout. But that can not happen unless the facts are presented at every opportunity. Predestination? I never heard this used in this context before. Anyone who does not accept the free will taught in the Bible believes that everyone will be saved because they have no choice. That is your basic belief. So be it. Predestination it is. Everyone gains everlasting life, like or not, accept Jehovah God or not. Nonsense. Unless you really do stone people for back-talking their parents and other such things that are documented in the Bible. Now you are being silly, or, deliberately speaking what you know to be a lie.... which is it? There are, however, certain other burdens aside from anxieties, worries, fears, frustrations and other negative emotions that are the lot of the Christian and that he must himself bear. For example, the governing body of the Christian congregation in Jerusalem wrote the early Christians scattered abroad: “The holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.” Christians have certain responsibilities that they must shoulder.—Acts 15:28, 29. Do we need to begin going through the New Covenant? Man will screw things up, every single time, and that is a 100% guarantee. As I said, you have no faith in Jehovah God to fulfill His Purpose through His Means. “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.”—Matt. 24:14. There is only one organization doing that, and, there has never been more than this one organization that has done it. And, it is being done today, tomorrow and next year in more than 230 lands and in numerous different languages. Such languages being both spoken and written. The only time I recall Christ EVER saying to consult earthly authorities is Mat 23:2 since the scribes et al knew what scripture says Do you really believe that?! Hebrews 6:10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering. 11 But we desire each one of YOU to show the same industriousness so as to have the full assurance of the hope down to the end, 12 in order that YOU may not become sluggish, but be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. What do you suppose that refers to? 2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus, who is destined to judge the living and the dead, and by his manifestation and his kingdom, 2 preach the word, be at it urgently in favorable season, in troublesome season, reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all long-suffering and [art of] teaching. 3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories. 5 You, though, keep your senses in all things, suffer evil, do [the] work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry. Timothy was an overseer of various congregations for Paul. 1 Thessalonians 5:12 Now we request YOU, brothers, to have regard for those who are working hard among YOU and presiding over YOU in [the] Lord and admonishing YOU; 13 and to give them more than extraordinary consideration in love because of their work. Be peaceable with one another. 14 On the other hand, we exhort YOU, brothers, admonish the disorderly, speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long-suffering toward all. 15 See that no one renders injury for injury to anyone else, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others. Do you fail to see the elders of a congregation at work in this Scripture?! 1 Peter 5:1 Therefore, to the older men among YOU I give this exhortation, for I too am an older man with [them] and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, a sharer even of the glory that is to be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God in YOUR care, not under compulsion, but willingly; neither for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly; 3 neither as lording it over those who are God’s inheritance, but becoming examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief shepherd has been made manifest, YOU will receive the unfadable crown of glory. What about here; can you see any elders being discussed here?! I will tell you what you did not see in any of those versus was any mention of any priests!! Hebrews 12:14 Pursue peace with all people, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, 15 carefully watching that no one may be deprived of the undeserved kindness of God; that no poisonous root may spring up and cause trouble and that many may not be defiled by it; 16 that there may be no fornicator nor anyone not appreciating sacred things, like E82;sau, who in exchange for one meal gave away his rights as firstborn. See any instructions for elders here? Should I continue? Want me to post the part about congregating together? OK. Hebrew 10:24 And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near. That is actually a command. And it would not be there if there were not a reason for it, and if such were not available. Esp. as the day draws near. As I said, there is a reason for the faith I have in the Word of Jehovah God. they had the scrolls, but their actions never matched their words. You remember them? I remember them very well, and so does Jehovah God. And you still say that He does not have the power and authority to do anything about it, esp. as we draw near to the end of this system of things. Sorry for you I am. You have made a strong point about how disgusted with Christendom you are, and with their many, many sects and teachings. Well, we should expect that, but at the same time, we should expect that a correction would be made near the end of the worldly system of things. 1 Corinthins 1:10 Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. The only religious organization that speaks with one voice, IN THE WORLD, is Jehovah's Witnesses. Why? Because we all read and study the Bible. There is a sharp line beginning to separate all the people of the world, and that line id defined by what is in the Bible. And one more point about disfellowshipping, and why; 2 John 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works. I do not know how anyone can read that and misunderstand.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Never have I said such a thing. How many times do I have to say that there is a judgment that everyone will face? What you see as something that means total annihilation with no purpose I see means correction with a purpose. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack (5719) concerning his promise, as some men count (5736) slackness; but is longsuffering (5719) to us-ward, not willing (5740) that any should perish (5641) , but that all should come (5658) to repentance. Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired (8765) thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early (8762) : for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants (8802) of the world will learn (8804) righteousness. Tell me, is that true? Is that a prophecy? When will it happen? Or did it happen in the past? If it's not true, throw it all in the trash and live it up. Now you are being silly, or, deliberately speaking what you know to be a lie.... which is it? Nope. You said you follow the Bible "strictly". Your words, not mine. As I said, you have no faith in Jehovah God to fulfill His Purpose through His Means. Evidently you see a human organization as "His means". I don't. He doesn't need our "help". Which makes me wonder why I am doing this since HE doesn't need my help either. Perhaps I shouldn't be doing this. Really, I think I will stop. Nothing ever gets settled and even discussion in good faith only leads to hard feelings and / or outright anger. Really, there is no need for anger because we aren't in control here. I knew all that, but like a dumbass I decided to go against what I already know.
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NO, you don't apparently understand. You've been brainwashed by the cult. You don't know even understand yourself what has happened.
You've been brainwashed by the cult. You don't know even understand yourself what has happened. Oh, I do, I assure you. In fact, I put up a post with you, and a couple of others, in mind. It is about examing the Roman Catholic church. Try it. You may find some things of interest.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
How can you even formulate such a sentence? Judgement is judgement. What, it has to wait until you decide it is due to be correct?! You have nothing to say about it! AND NEITHER DO WE! Annihilation obviously has a purpose, or it would not be mentioned in the Bible. It is neither for you nor for me to decide the whens or the whys. That is a decision of Jehovah God alone. The only thing that I have been able to see that you use this for is to support your belief about free will. Tell me, is that true? Is that a prophecy? When will it happen? Or did it happen in the past? If it's not true, throw it all in the trash and live it up. No, it is not a prophecy; it is a statement of Purpose. It is happening, but that does not mean that everyone is accepting. Or, we would not be told, in Revelation, of piles of bodies that are not to be buried. As to living it up, many are indeed doing just that, or, are you missing that part. Nope. You said you follow the Bible "strictly". Your words, not mine. Yep. We do. As closely as possible in our imperfect way. Which includes taking note of the changes brought into the Biible by the New Covenant. Are you confused on the subject? Sorry. He doesn't need our "help". No, but He expects us to do His Words, exactly as Jesus Christ commanded. You remember; if you love me, do my words, but the words I speak are not mine, but belong to my Father. You know, those words, then the others about going forth and making diciples of all men, baptising them etc. Surely you remember those words, right? That is what I am talking about when we try to follow the Bible closely. Twist it as you will, that is the bottom line.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
I'm still wondering why you are posting to a website that is political and therefore falls into "this current wicked system of things" as your cult likes to call it. (My own religion simply calls it "the world").
First consider what being “no part of the world” does not mean. It does not mean that we isolate ourselves from people. It does not mean living like hermits in a cave or withdrawing into a monastery or other remote place. To the contrary, the night before his death Jesus prayed to his Father on behalf of his disciples, saying: “I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.”—John 17:15, 16. Rather than hide themselves from people, Jesus’ disciples were ‘sent forth into the world,’ to make known the truth. (John 17:18) They were to serve as “the light of the world,” letting the light of truth shine before men so that these might see how God’s truth affects people’s lives for good.—Matthew 5:14-16. Christians, of necessity, have contact with many people as they work to support themselves and their families and as they declare the good news of God’s kingdom to mankind. So, as the apostle Paul shows, they are not expected to “get out of the world” in a physical way. They cannot entirely “quit mixing in company” with people of the world. But they can and must keep the wrong ways that the majority of mankind practice from infecting them and the Christian congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:9-11. I hope that makes it plain enough. And by the way, which cult do you belong to? Oh, perhaps you have not yet read the post; Examing the Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps you should.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
I'm a Christian Universalist who believes that any punishments for sin are temporary in nature (Ie. that people can still be reconciled to God through the death and Ressurection of Christ Jesus even AFTER death). Hell and the JW/Armstrongite/Adventist version of it called annihalationism are products of the ROMAN takeover of Christianity designed to bring people into IMPERIAL cults like the Roman Catholic Church, The Rapture Monkey Fundamentalist Church, the Jehovah's Witnesses the Armstrongite groups like the Living and Philidelphia Church of God and the Adventists through FEAR rather than God's love for his creation.
A lot more than I would trust anyone of the world. I have watched them in action, and I know, personally, of the great love they show for the flock, and for Jehovah God. This is a topic I generally avoid - however "holier than thou" hypocrisy annoys me and I find it repugnant to the spirit of comity and the messenger of peace. Ousted Members Say Jehovah's Witnesses' Policy on Abuse Hides Offenses By LAURIE GOODSTEIN Published: August 11, 2002 William Bowen always considered himself a devout Jehovah's Witness. As a child, he felt it was his duty to go door to door passing out the church's magazine, The Watchtower. Later, as an elder in his Kentucky congregation, he said he saw it as his duty to inform church officials that a fellow elder had abused a child. But when Mr. Bowen contacted the church's headquarters in Brooklyn, he says, he was rebuffed. Frustrated by the church's inaction and by its confidentiality provisions, which he said prevented him from sharing the information with others, Mr. Bowen resigned as an elder in December 2000. A year later, he started a group to monitor child sexual abuse in the church. Late last month, Mr. Bowen, 44, was excommunicated from the church. Behind a locked door, with plastic bags taped over the windows to ward off onlookers, he said, three church elders meeting at the church's Kingdom Hall in Draffenville, Ky., found him guilty of ''causing divisions.'' The punishment was ''disfellowshiping'' -- complete shunning. In the past three months, four other people have been expelled from the Jehovah's Witnesses after accusing it of covering up the sexual abuse of children by its members. For Mr. Bowen and other critics of church policies on sexual abuse, the expulsions are part of a concerted effort to keep such abuses quiet. Expelled Witnesses say the church's own policies and culture conspire to conceal abuse. A panel of church elders, all men, meets in secret to decide each case, a procedure which critics say prevents members from knowing there is an abuser in their midst. To prove an accusation, a child must have a witness to the incident, a condition that is usually impossible to meet. ''This is evidence for the world to see how the Jehovah's Witnesses treat abuse survivors and those who try to protect them,'' said Mr. Bowen. ''They silence them with the threat of disfellowshiping.'' ... (continued at link)
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
well, well. so all JW's aren't angels walking among us?
Shocking isn't it? I generally stay away from these threads, but I have a visceral reaction toward hypocrisy - particularly when children are concerned. From my perspective among problems with the JW Group are the insularity, secrecy, and authoritarianism. Were I less charitable I might call it Totalitarian Religiosity. Not to mention the joyless and cheerless outlook I see it engender. However, I do believe in freedom of conscience and they are welcome to their beliefs, but I do not have to agree with them. The JW Church reminds me most of H. L. Mencken's definition of Puritanism: ""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
That is wise. We're supposed to be ready to give a reason for the faith, WHEN ASKED. Usually no one even asks, we just jump right on in, and we know the results of that... Problem was, I forgot it. Another think I notice is that people are always deathly afraid to say "I don't know". If they dont know the answer to a question, they'll fake it and they will sound so authoritative in the process. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
Yes. That is true. That opportunity does exist. the Jehovah's Witnesses So I am curious as to why you list us with the others when the papers I have posted on the resurrection tell exactly the tale that you have noted? BUT... to take that a step further; the Book of Revelation tells a different story about the end times. If we are indeed in the end times, and I have good reasons to think that we are, then the rules have changed, and it is only those who have accepted Jehovah God who will come through the tribulation. From that death, which is a judicial judgement, there is no return, just as there is no return for those who died in the Great Flood, or so I believe.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Now, it took me just a minute to find a deliberate lie in the story. Nothing could be further from the truth than the above. Is there a procedure to be followed? Yes, there is. Did this man follow it? No, he did not. But when Mr. Bowen contacted the church's headquarters in Brooklyn, That is directly contrary to procedures, and he was correctly rebuffed. This tells me that there is more to this than what is being told by this man. For instance, if what he says is the truth, where are the police records of the abuse? monitor child sexual abuse in the church. That is a criminal act in all parts of the nation. Such things are not kept quite anywhere, much less in a Jehovah's Witness congregation. In fact, I will state openly that if there was the slightest shred of truth to this it would have been national headlines everywhere across America. I would have to conclude, on the little that is presented here, that this man was correctly disfellowshipped, but who knows because of the lack of information.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
And, has anyone claimed that they are? So, let us rephrase your statement.... just for the record. well, well. so all Baptists aren't angels walking among us? well, well. so all Roman Catholics aren't angels walking among us? well, well. so all those of the Church of England aren't angels walking among us? well, well. so all Lutherns aren't angels walking among us? Jehovah's Witnesses are just like everyone else; imperfect humans subject to error. This is why, for instance, that the procedure called disfellowshipping was taught in the Bible. I will still take them, as a group, over any other group I have ever been around. Period.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
You know, your ignorance of what you speak is amazing, as well as your willingness to share it with all others. You have no personal knowledge, yet you insist on speaking as if you do. Secrecy indeed! Everything is openly posted on the web, everything is printed in books which are freely shared with EVERYONE! The Kingdom Hall is open to all for every meeting, no exceptions. Please, go check it out, tell me what you find that is so shocking; lots of people with Bibles talking about what they are LEARNING!! Joyless and cheerless outlook indeed! I have NEVER BEEN AROUND A HAPPIER GROUP OF PEOPLE IN MY LIFE!!! People that can actually get together, dance the night away, WITHOUT GETTING DRUNK!! Amazing! My wife was very, very hesitent about the Witnesses (she was a Catholic).... did not really want to study and was happy for me... but that was not for her.... until she went with me to a party with my friends in the Congregation. It was all she could talk about for a week. Now, she is well into her studies, is amazed at what she is learning, and is planning on Baptism next September. Now go ahead, tell some more tall tales.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Yes, an important insight. A lesson it took me into my late 20's to learn. Now if I don't know an answer to something I am completely comfortable saying "I don't know". Three very important words. I've read a fair bit on religion and history but there is still much I do not know and I am not afraid to say so. Two things I do KNOW: There is a God. Jesus Christ was a reality. As well I have learned that there are too many men who claim their words, their opinions, are the word of God when they are not, but that they merely use God as a way to give authority to their words. That I find sad in the deluded and reprehensible in those who use religion to cloak their evil doing in respectability.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
There is a God. Jesus Christ was a reality. As well I have learned that there are too many men who claim their words, their opinions, are the word of God when they are not, but that they merely use God as a way to give authority to their words. That I find sad in the deluded and reprehensible in those who use religion to cloak their evil doing in respectability. Agreed. The only thing I will add to that is, IMO and scripture bears this out, is that God is sovereign. Too many say that, but they dont really believe it.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
I know what I have observed and read. No more, no less. I make no claim to knowledge I do not have nor have I done so. I have known JW's though have never been one - nor could I be one. Those I have known have been decent and kindly people. That is not my complaint. It is not a philosophy that I find conducive to fellowship among men because of its exclusivity and insularity. There is the superficial public face and the reality of secret findings based upon arbitrary considerations of a small group. This is related to the same mindset as some of my criticisms of Islam and Talmudic Judaism. It is the same regardless of the group there is "us" and "them". That is the mindset I find most troublesome as it leads down the path of self justification and apologetics for group members which are not always rational or even just. Running through the Jehovah's Witness theology is a great intolerance of those with differing views, which can also be said of other groups, that quite frankly puts me off. And as well I reject puritanism in all those forms in which it crops up. It is joyless, cheerless, and dark. We have the ability to enjoy pleasure and that is not a quirk. Doing good, helping others, living well, gives us pleasure and it is part of our make-up. I reject any belief system which would seek to deny that reality as antithetical to a just and humane society. This is not to be confused with self denial to achieve a long term goal as that ultimately relates back to my premise of doing good, helping others, living well. However, as I have alluded to before I do not spend over much time criticising the beliefs of others. From my viewpoint you are entitled to believe as you wish and act upon those beliefs so long as it brings no harm to others.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
And you as well. I haven't quite kicked the cigarette habit yet, but I have cut back drastically before taking the final plunge. I ain't gonna pay no Obama tax on anything I can avoid.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
And in turn I have no argument with your position. I could expand on it, but will forego the impulse. ;-)
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
I'm very close to my target of 1 (ONE) cigar and 2 (TWO) glasses of wine per diem. Adios beer ! Adios tequila ! Adios cigarillos !
Same thing that I have been told by many. That being the case, why do you object to the teachings that form the foundation of what they are? There is the superficial public face and the reality of secret findings based upon arbitrary considerations of a small group. Such is done to be sure that those being censured are damaged as little as possible. And the conclusions are not arbitrary and can be appealed higher. That is seldom done, generally because those being censured and/or disfellowshipped know very well the whys and wherefores of the action taken. I will also add that there is a very well established procedure whereby those who have been disfellowshipped can be readmitted to the Congregation. Many, many take advantage of this every year. The worst offenders often do not, for obvious reasons. Running through the Jehovah's Witness theology is a great intolerance of those with differing views, What a silly statememnt. We go out daily and talk to people, reasoning with them as to what the Bible really teaches. We do not demand that they use 'our' Bible; they are welcome to use any Bible. We do not demand that they listen only to us; they are welcome to ask anyone about anything. We freely give, in public, all liturature and open our Kingdom Halls to everyone, wihtout exception, as long as they act decently within. And as well I reject puritanism in all those forms in which it crops up. What you just said is that the Bible in its pure form is not to be tolerated. Which, basically, is the position of all so-called Christian churches as well. Do I assume from this that your idea is to go along to get along? Sorry, now that is repugnant to me. The Truth is the Truth, in all subjects no matter what they are. This includes taxation, the Constitution, Republic vs. Democracy, or the Bible. Period. It is joyless, cheerless, and dark. Well, that obviously leaves us out; as noted above, this is the most cheerful and giving group of people that I have ever been around in my life! Doing good, helping others, living well, gives us pleasure and it is part of our make-up. Yeah, I agree. The Bible speaks to this; “I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.”—Isaiah 48:17, 18. The problem is, so few will listen to Him. If they would, wars and violence would disappear, you know, kind of like the Jehovah's Witnesses advocate. For instance, not permitting any military into our Congregations. And to go back to your original point; I know what I have observed and read. No more, no less. Then you should be careful that what you post is absolutely accurate, lacking personal knowledge putting that burden upon you.
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Adios beer ! Adios tequila ! Adios cigarillos ! For me it is not so much "adios" as it is "au revoir" (till we meet again) - although Tekillya is history - too many Tequila Sunrises {and I don't mean the drink ;-)} I can't even stand the smell of it any more.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Trust me, I know exactly what you mean !
LMAO!!!!!
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
That is directly contrary to procedures, and he was correctly rebuffed. This tells me that there is more to this than what is being told by this man. For instance, if what he says is the truth, where are the police records of the abuse? monitor child sexual abuse in the church. That is a criminal act in all parts of the nation. Such things are not kept quite anywhere, much less in a Jehovah's Witness congregation. In fact, I will state openly that if there was the slightest shred of truth to this it would have been national headlines everywhere across America. I would have to conclude, on the little that is presented here, that this man was correctly disfellowshipped, but who knows because of the lack of information. You cannot convince someone who will not look. That you choose not to look, but instead wish to explain it away as "not following procedure" or "it hasn't been in the headlines" is whistling past the cemetery. If you researched the issue as much as you claim to research others then you would find a goodly number of articles. The reality is that the Witnesses are a very small minority sect and the lamestream media is not all that interested except in passing. I might note that one of the linked articles was in the NY Times. As well I don't judge an issue by what the lamestream media does or does not print. In case you hadn't noticed they frequently lie.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Wow. An article in the New York Times. I am impressed. Ifn I had known that, I would have just rolled over and played dead. NOT! I have not read the NYT in more than 20 years and never will again. The reality is that the Witnesses are a very small minority sect and the lamestream media is not all that interested except in passing. B.S. If there is anything that reflects badly on religion in general -- remember all of the hoopala about the Mormons in Texas & Arizona for multiple wives? -- and on the Jehovah's Witnesses in particular, it will get nation wide attention. Besides which, and you are deliberately ignoring this or are not smart enough to put 2 and 2 together, there is nothing from this man about police checking up. If it had been a real case, with a real victim (or two or three), police would have been involved and the man would have made a much bigger case out of it. So now what? Are you going to go ahead and claim, well, probably, you know, the sherriff was a Witness and it all got shut up? Is that next? Better be careful if you do, cause I know the rules about letting police into the Congregation -- in fact, anyone that carries a gun in their line of work and who could be asked to kill with that gun, so, be real careful what you claim. Basically what happened is you went looking for Bull Shit and the first thing that you found, cause you dislike the Jehovah's Witnesses, you feel free to post it. It mattered not one whit to you if it was true of not; LET'S ALL SLAM THE WITNESSES!! Correct? Adding in, of course, that you like the Witneeses that you know, but hey, THE REST OF THEM IS CRACKPOTS!! So let me go back to the question you ignored; why would you suppose that the Witnesses you know are such nice people? Could it be because of what they study and believe? Ya think?
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;.
Comments (42 - 42) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest“Well, the reason for disfellowshipping is that some persons get into this congregation of God that do not love Christ.
#2. To: Coral Snake, PSUSA (#0)
For context about 1% of Jehovah’s Witnesses are disfellowshipped every year; about 70,000 per annum.
#3. To: Coral Snake (#0)
#4. To: richard9151 (#2)
All of you talk about how neccessary it is to clean up the nation, get rid of the criminals and deceivers and false freedom lovers..... but you are liars and hypocrits because when you find an organization that does exactly that -- and works diligently to keep itself clean ACCORDING TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES, you can do nothing but find fault with them.
#5. To: PSUSA, Rotara, Coral Snake (#4)
2 Shepherd the flock of God in YOUR care ... etc. etc. etc.
#6. To: Jethro Tull (#3)
FOFLOL
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#7. To: richard9151 (#5)
Dude
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#8. To: Rotara (#7)
Ya know I love ya Richard. But why do you ping me unless you want me to come on here and dismantle the cult you love ?
#9. To: richard9151 (#8)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#10. To: Rotara (#9)
Richard, I'm not going to do this.
#11. To: richard9151 (#5)
You need to learn how to read. It does not refer to one flock. It specifically says; Shepard the flock of God in YOUR care....
#12. To: PSUSA (#11)
But if you trust your "shepherds",
#13. To: richard9151 (#12)
Anyone who does not accept the free will taught in the Bible believes that everyone will be saved because they have no choice. That is your basic belief. So be it. Predestination it is. Everyone gains everlasting life, like or not, accept Jehovah God or not.
#14. To: richard9151 (#10)
Not a problem. I understand.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#15. To: Rotara (#14)
NO, you don't apparently understand.
#16. To: PSUSA (#13)
What you see as something that means total annihilation with no purpose I see means correction with a purpose.
#17. To: richard9151 (#16)
(Edited)
Oh what a DUFFLE-HEAD that Barack Obama is !!! Duffle-Head (As used in a Felix the Cat cartoon) A wicked person of limited intelegence but with pretenses of intelectual grandeur. Their only successful endevors are usually the invention of self punishment machines.
#18. To: Coral Snake (#17)
why you are posting to a website that is political
#19. To: richard9151 (#18)
Oh what a DUFFLE-HEAD that Barack Obama is !!! Duffle-Head (As used in a Felix the Cat cartoon) A wicked person of limited intelegence but with pretenses of intelectual grandeur. Their only successful endevors are usually the invention of self punishment machines.
#20. To: Coral Snake (#19)
oh great another bible ignernt deceiver
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#21. To: richard9151, Rotara, PSUSA, Jethro Tull, all (#12)
But if you trust your "shepherds",
Silentlambs is a collective of individuals that have taken the courageous step to stand up for what is right. The website was started in March of 2001 with the writing of a simple story, "The Day the Lambs Roared".
The point of the story was that vicitms of abuse should never be silent and together they can move mountains.
On this website are hundreds of stories of individuals that have spoken out, many for the first time, on the abuse they experienced in the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is our hope that this information will help educate the public and JW’s about the extent of this problem as well as assist in helping abuse survivors to know they are not alone.
At silentlambs we have witnesses amazing transformations when victims find their voice. Many have started the healing road in therapy, education, speaking out to family and friends, and most importantly reporting child molesters to proper authorities. In the end what is accomplished? Children are protected. That is the mission of silentlambs and if we can assist you do not hesitate to call our hotline or email us at info@silentlambs.org
We know we do not have all the answers, but we believe you, it was not your fault, and want you to know that you are not alone. For many that is the first step on the path to healing.
Read the silentlambs mission statement at this link, [click here]
For a complete story on the history of silentlambs click here
#22. To: Original_Intent (#21)
#23. To: christine (#22)
(Edited)
well, well. so all JW's aren't angels walking among us?
"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
#24. To: Original_Intent (#23)
I generally stay away from these threads,
#25. To: Coral Snake (#19)
I'm a Christian Universalist who believes that any punishments for sin are temporary in nature (Ie. that people can still be reconciled to God through the death and Ressurection of Christ Jesus even AFTER death).
#26. To: Original_Intent (#21)
which he said prevented him from sharing the information with others,
#27. To: christine (#22)
well, well. so all JW's aren't angels walking among us?
#28. To: Original_Intent (#23)
From my perspective among problems with the JW Group are the insularity, secrecy, and authoritarianism. Were I less charitable I might call it Totalitarian Religiosity. Not to mention the joyless and cheerless outlook I see it engender.
#29. To: PSUSA (#24)
Another think I notice is that people are always deathly afraid to say "I don't know". If they dont know the answer to a question, they'll fake it and they will sound so authoritative in the process.
#30. To: Original_Intent (#29)
Two things I do KNOW:
#31. To: PSUSA, Original_Intent (#30)
Good to see you both up and taking nutrition.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#32. To: richard9151, PSUSA (#28)
You know, your ignorance of what you speak is amazing, as well as your willingness to share it with all others. You have no personal knowledge, yet you insist on speaking as if you do.
#33. To: Rotara, PSUSA (#31)
Good to see you both up and taking nutrition.
#34. To: PSUSA (#30)
#35. To: Original_Intent (#33)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#36. To: Original_Intent (#32)
Those I have known have been decent and kindly people.
#37. To: Rotara (#35)
I'm very close to my target of 1 (ONE) cigar and 2 (TWO) glasses of wine per diem.
#38. To: Original_Intent (#37)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#39. To: Original_Intent (#34)
#40. To: richard9151, christine, PSUSA (#26)
(Edited)
But when Mr. Bowen contacted the church's headquarters in Brooklyn,
#41. To: Original_Intent (#40)
I might note that one of the linked articles was in the NY Times.
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