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Title: Is lucysmom As Gullible and Naive as her posts indicate? Could it be possible?
Source: LP
URL Source: http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=257643#C32
Published: Mar 3, 2009
Author: me
Post Date: 2009-03-03 16:27:49 by James Deffenbach
Keywords: None
Views: 2244
Comments: 261

There is a bit of hypocrisy going on here. This kind of abuse of the court system is rightly condemned by conservatives when the target of the suits are corporations but now applauded when the target is an individual.

Any looney tune can file a suit and issue a subpoena requesting any personal information he desires (you don't even need a lawyer to do it) and the target is forced to respond. It could even happen to you.

IMHO, there is something obscene about demanding the scope of personal information that these suits are after. The "birthers" demand the right to poke through the details of Obama's early life longing for anything to use against him. They are using the court system to harass and hound while wrapping them selves in the noble cloak of patriotism. They make the word dirty.

lucysmom posted on 2009-03-03 10:40:46 ET Reply Trace

Poster Comment:

The "birthers" are merely asking for actual PROOF that Obama is in fact an AMERICAN. His long form birth certificate, which could be produced at almost no cost, could confirm that he is or prove that he is not. Why is he and the DNC spending huge sums of money to keep it hidden if it actually proves that he is a citizen? I suspect that it proves the opposite for there would be no other reason not to disclose it.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

Those sources are people like Jerome Corsi. Corsi is an old school B'nai B'rith operative.

The unassailable fact is that Obama isn't natural born due to his father's citizenship.

The truth is the truth no matter who tells it. But of course I take your point about how he isn't a citizen because his father was a citizen of Kenya and subject to British rule and his mother could not legally pass on her citizenship to him under the laws as they existed at that time.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   11:51:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

It seems you need to further your education beyond calling people "doof" when you are proven wrong. Doesn't speak well of you. But then, most of us probably don't expect much from Obamabots. I expect the same from them as I did the Bushbots. In both cases their hero can do no wrong, at least not in their deluded minds.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   11:53:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Uh, no...you're relying on the description of a translation of what Obama's grandma said...

And I am sure that you, being the wise Obamabot that you are, know the translation was wrong OR that his old granny in Kenya hates him and is trying to do whatever she can to mess up his gravy train.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   11:55:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Common law is not constutional law...

Your Ark link states that at times Constitutional law must be interpreted through common law. That was the majority opinion.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   11:56:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I realize it's the minority opinion.

It's not an "opinion" it's a dissent.

My point was to emphasize that even the majority opinion didn't find him to be a natural born citizen.

And that ppoint is incorrect. Read the decision. The USCON establishes two classes of US citizenship...natural born and naturalized.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   11:57:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama was born an American citizen as well as being born a British/Kenyan citizen. He's not a natural born citizen as he was born a dual-citizen. End of story. All of the froo-froo about where he was born is chaff thrown up by the usual suspects to throw us off. The chaff is working, sadly.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   11:59:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Your Ark link states that at times Constitutional law must be interpreted through common law.

Not "must"...

"The interpretation of the constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history."

In other words "can"...

That said...it was also said: "In Smith v. Alabama, Mr. Justice Matthews, delivering the judgment of the court, said: 'There is no common law of the United States, in the sense of a national customary law, distinct from the common law of England as adopted by the several states each for itself, applied as its local law, and subject to such alteration as may be provided by its own statutes."

Meaning, given statutes and laws that the common law is not precedent.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:02:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

He's not a natural born citizen as he was born a dual-citizen. End of story.

All fairy tales end.

Obama is natural born. He was either that or naturalized. Can you show that he was naturalized? It's a relatively simple exercise...

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:03:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Here's the majority ruling. There's nothing about 'natural born citizen' in their findings:

The evident intention, and the necessary effect, of the submission of this case to the decision of the court upon the facts agreed by the parties, were to present for determination the single question, stated at the beginning of this opinion, namely, whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the emperor of China, but have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States. For the reasons above stated, this court is of opinion that the question must be answered in the affirmative.

The USCON establishes two classes of US citizenship...natural born and naturalized.

There's three classes: citizen, natural born citizen and naturalized citizen. Obama was born a citizen, not a natural born citizen as he was born with dual-nationality.

That dual-nationality thing is what the Framers were trying to avoid. Were they alive today, they'd start a revolution all over again due to a dual-citizen having been selected by the Banking powers to be President.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:04:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama is natural born.

You can't be natural born if one of your parents is a citizen of another country. I'm not natural born as my mother was an Irish citizen when I was born. Obama knows good and goddam well he's not natural born either. That's why he's done his best to stonewall anyone that wishes to see his records.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:07:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama was born an American citizen

Not if he was not born in America. His mother could not have passed her citizenship on to him under the law as it existed at that time. I know now they claim that every wetback who has been in the country two minutes and gives birth has given birth to an American but I don't believe that either. The women who are here illegally are subject to the laws of their home country and only subject to this one to the extent that they can be, and should be, deported.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   12:07:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Not "must"...

From your link:

In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the fourteenth amendment now in question, said: 'The constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.' And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision. 21 Wall. 167.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:09:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You can't be natural born if one of your parents is a citizen of another country.

Again...there are two classes of US citizens...natural born or naturalized. END OF STORY.

not natural born as my mother was an Irish citizen when I was born.

When were you naturalized?

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:11:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You miss my point.

Obama was born in Hawaii. The people telling you that he wasn't born in the US are the usual Jews, globalists and other disinfo artists that wish to always throw us off by injecting fruitless arguments into the mix.

Obama was born an American citizen. He's not a natural born citizen.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:12:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The common law is used as an interpretive tool and not as a substitute for law or precedent and will be used only to clarify statuatory ambiguity. There is no constitutional common law.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:13:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama was born an American citizen. He's not a natural born citizen.

That's an absurdi statement.

Again...you are either natural born or you are naturalized.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:14:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Again...there are two classes of US citizens...natural born or naturalized.

Then why did the Framers make reference to THREE classes: citizen, natural born citizen and naturalized citizen?

When were you naturalized?

I was born a citizen of the US and a citizen of Ireland. I'm not natural born but I'm a citizen. I don't need to be naturalized.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:14:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama was born in Hawaii. The people telling you that he wasn't born in the US are the usual Jews, globalists and other disinfo artists that wish to always throw us off by injecting fruitless arguments into the mix.

And his relatives in Kenya were all lying? Do they all hate him and want to mess up his gravy train? If that is the case I can't say I blame them much because he doesn't even care about his own brother (half brother) who lives on something like a dollar a day. But do you know that his grandmother was lying or that she was misquoted? I don't know that.

By the way, I forgot to ask--have YOU seen his long form birth certificate that he has kept well hidden from everyone else? The one he is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep hidden? If he was actually born in Hawaii why wouldn't he just produce that instead of going to all that expense? Does that make sense to you or does it make more sense to believe that he is hiding something?

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   12:16:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

citizen

Actually, the distinction that they made was "citizen...AT THE TIME OF THE ADOPTION..."...meaning that there was no such thing as a US citizen PRIOR to the USCON. Seeing has how none of them are no longer alive, that clause is meaningless.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:17:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Incorrect. Natural born citizens are citizens born on American soil of two citizen parents. Naturalized citizens are foreign nationals that become US citizens. Citizens are those born with one parent of American citizenship.

There are millions of people not eligible to be be president. Obama's one of 'em.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:17:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

nd his relatives in Kenya were all lying?

No, but media Jews lie all the time and fool other people into lying.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:18:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Aye yi yi...we can go back and forth on this forever.

Two classes: Naturl born or naturalzied. PERIOD.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   12:18:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

A while ago you were claiming that there was no 'natural born citizen' clause in the US Constitution. Now you're agreeing with me by saying there is a distinction after all.

You're a waste of time.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:20:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'm neither natural born nor was I naturalized. So I must be the third class, like Obama. Neither he nor I are eligible to be prez.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:23:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If he was actually born in Hawaii why wouldn't he just produce that instead of going to all that expense? Does that make sense to you or does it make more sense to believe that he is hiding something?

I don't know why he's hiding it. At this point, it doesn't matter if he hides it or not because he's already admitted that he's not a natural born citizen.

Rather than try to follow a bunch of media Jews down a rabbit hole, just follow the known facts.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:40:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama was born in Hawaii. The people telling you that he wasn't born in the US are the usual Jews, globalists and other disinfo artists that wish to always throw us off by injecting fruitless arguments into the mix.

And his relatives in Kenya were all lying? Do they all hate him and want to mess up his gravy train? If that is the case I can't say I blame them much because he doesn't even care about his own brother (half brother) who lives on something like a dollar a day. But do you know that his grandmother was lying or that she was misquoted? I don't know that.

By the way, I forgot to ask--have YOU seen his long form birth certificate that he has kept well hidden from everyone else? The one he is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep hidden? If he was actually born in Hawaii why wouldn't he just produce that instead of going to all that expense? Does that make sense to you or does it make more sense to believe that he is hiding something?

OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL: More military officers demand eligibility proof

OBAMA WATCH CENTRAL

More military officers demand eligibility proof

Plaintiff: 'In the worst case … it's going to be revolution in the streets'

Posted: March 02, 2009

8:18 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh

© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Military officers from the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines are working with California attorney Orly Taitz and her Defend Our Freedoms Foundation, citing a legal right established in British common law nearly 800 years ago and recognized by the U.S. Founding Fathers to demand documentation that may prove – or disprove – Barack Obama's eligibility to be president.

Taitz told WND today she has mailed to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder a request that he "relate Quo Warranto on Barack Hussein Obama II to test his title to president before the Supreme Court."

The lengthy legal phrase essentially means an explanation is being demanded for what authority Obama is using to act as president. An online constitutional resource says Quo Warranto "affords the only judicial remedy for violations of the Constitution by public officials and agents."

............

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-03-05   12:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

From the WND link:

Other challenges have focused on Obama's citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. The cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.

That's the winnable route.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   12:58:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

The simple question I want answered is WHY would anyone who was actually born in this country, which is what Obama and his supporters claim, NOT PRODUCE THE PROOF WHICH COULD BE DONE FOR LESS THAN A HUNDRED DOLLARS? Instead of doing that he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on high priced shysters to hide his long form birth certificate. I don't claim to be all that smart but I believe that anyone who is that desperate to hide something has something pretty serious to hide.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   14:13:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I was born a citizen of the US and a citizen of Ireland.

You're natural born.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   15:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

And his relatives in Kenya were all lying?

Doof...let's make this simple...you are claiming that Obama was born in Kenya...his Mom then hopped a pland, snuck kinto a hospital as if he were born there, had the birth registered in Hawaii via the hospital and then reported in a local paper? Have i got it?

war  posted on  2009-03-05   15:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

A while ago you were claiming that there was no 'natural born citizen' clause in the US Constitution.

I made no such claim.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   15:39:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Obama provided a HAwaii COLB that Hawaii has said is valid.

Stop promioting the lie that he hasn't provided anything.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   15:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What I am promoting is the truth that he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep his LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE HIDDEN. That is the same bc that us lowly peons have to provide if we want something like a passport. But your hero doesn't have to show one to prove he is eligible to hold the highest office the country has to offer? If he truly is an American citizen and he was actually born in Hawaii why wouldn't he produce the long form bc? Would YOU spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep yours hidden if there was some controversy about where you were born and you were running for a public office? And why is he spending all that money if he has nothing to hide? Do you remember the sob talking about "transparency"? Your hero is just another politician and isn't worth the air he is taking up. I have asked you over and over why your hero won't produce that long form birth certificate, why he spends all that money to keep it hidden. One more non responsive, bs post from you and you can talk to yourself as far as I am concerned.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   16:00:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I made no such claim.

There is no such requirement to be natural born. - war

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   16:12:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

You're natural born.

Who are you to tell me my status? You didn't even know that there was a natural born clause in the Constitution.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-03-05   16:14:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I WAS REFERRING To PARENTAGE.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   16:27:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Who are you to tell me my status?

I'm the euridite.

war  posted on  2009-03-05   16:28:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

What I am promoting is the truth that he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars

Document even one cent.

Thanks...

war  posted on  2009-03-05   16:30:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#59. To: bluegrass (#31)

That being said, his father's foreign citizenship immediately makes him ineligible to be president as a natural born citizen is someone born on American soil of two citizen parents. Obama doesn't fit the bill and he knows it.

There is no such requirement to be natural born. Children born on US soil of non-citizen immigrants are natural born.

war posted on 2009-03-04 21:23:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply

war  posted on  2009-03-05   16:31:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

THIS is from the article that was posted on LP, an article favorable to your hero.

The White House regards the claims as an irritant and is not responding to questions about them, but lawyers for the Democratic National Committee and Mr Obama himself have spent considerable time and money combating a steady supply of lawsuits at every court level up to the Supreme Court. The exact cost to Mr Obama himself is not known.

WHY would they spend "considerable time and money" fighting the production of the document which would either prove he was born in Hawaii or prove that he wasn't? It would take almost no time and very little money to end the controversy, yet your hero refuses to do that. How much is "considerable time and money"? You should know since you claim to be rich. Would it be, in your opinion, far more than the cost of producing the damned document? Or is that beyond your limited ability to grasp? This will be my last post to you since you are non responsive and always answer with bs. Adios.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-05   16:41:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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