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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
Source: ,
URL Source: http://,
Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
Ping List: *9-11*     Subscribe to *9-11*
Keywords: None
Views: 12242
Comments: 607

youtube link

http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/911-ual-175-plane-on-radar-after-it-has-crashed-into-the-wtc/

Kudos to SEATNINEB for this. Check forum here at: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=14399

FAA radar is tracking, in real time, flight 175 after it has supposedly crashed into the WTC. This is perhaps an hour later. Although many people do not believe an aircraft hit the Pentagon or crashed in Shanksville, they still cannot accept that no plane hit the WTC. Perhaps this may help.

3 IFR aircraft in the air in a 30 mile radius of New york city is consistent with one hour of diversions and forced landings.

One hour before you would expect a very large multiple of 3 aircraft to be in the air. NY has several incredibly busy airports.Check anytime on FLIGHT AWARE and count the aircraft within a 30 mile radius of NY. There should be 60 to 100


Poster Comment: any debunkers? Subscribe to *9-11*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 257.

#3. To: Artisan (#0)

any debunkers?

Oh, they'll be out in force. It might take them a day or two, but for every new revelation shining light on the 911 Inside Job they have a spin very quickly. Either they will attack the film as altered or they'll have some other spin such as the Radar was incompetent.

They won't hold water but for the Sheeple who don't want to look at reality they will grasp at any spin straw to avoid looking. They want the "Nightly Nooze" to tell them what they think.

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-03-16   13:13:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Original_Intent (#3)

if the identifying radar system is in real time as he claimed then it is pretty damning evidence of remote controlled drone planes. I don't know antyhing about such systems which is why i pinged the pilots. Anyway, we all know the truth but to what end ? There is more than enough evidence but most politicians, clergy, academics and influence peddlers won't look at or acknowledge any of this. And time has gone on and it's almost 10 8 yrs past.

Anyway, it's fun to expose their lies. people do know, in general, but what comes of it? we shall watch.

Artisan  posted on  2009-03-16   13:21:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Artisan (#4)

I'm confused, "tracked on RADAR" 1 hr after it hit the WTC?

Itistoolate  posted on  2009-03-16   13:58:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Itistoolate (#6)

I'm confused

Only if you believe this shit are you...

war  posted on  2009-03-16   14:04:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: war (#7)

Only if you believe this shit

The shit in the video or the Gov't shit?

Itistoolate  posted on  2009-03-16   14:10:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Itistoolate (#8)

The government's shit is mosty likely the closest to what happened. If anything got covered up it's how little attention the Boosh's were paying when it went down...

war  posted on  2009-03-16   14:48:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: war (#11)

Thank you for proving my prediction correct.

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-03-16   14:52:19 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Original_Intent (#14)

Thank you for proving my prediction correct.

Your prediction was akin to predicting that if you pulled your pants down and tried to blow yourself in Times Square people would look.

PS: Claiming that "WE BRUNG DOWN THE TOWERS!!!!" is the same thing as self- felating in Times Square.

war  posted on  2009-03-16   14:54:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: war (#17)

Explain this. See how the top of the tower is tilting on an angle? Simple physics would determine that the top of the tower should have toppled over and tumbled, as there is less resistance to the air than there would be to the steel and concrete below it, thus it would have continued it's rotational movement and toppled over.

Why did it all of a sudden drop like a rock straight down through the steel and concrete rather than simply topple over as it appears ready to do in the following picture?

FormerLurker  posted on  2009-03-17   10:41:40 ET  (1 image) Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: FormerLurker (#59)

Why did it all of a sudden drop like a rock straight down through the steel and concrete rather than simply topple over as it appears ready to do in the following picture?

You mean like what happens in a controlled demolition? Well, this is different....the plane hit the building (which was specifically designed to withstand the impact of a direct hit by a plane), and the plane had fuel (no matter that the fire was limited to just a couple floors, as opposed to other towers which have also had intense fire but never collapsed)....and because of the intense flames (limited to two floors?)....the structural beams just melted.......and can't you just believe these people already?!

: )

litus  posted on  2009-03-17   11:05:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: litus (#68)

You forgot that it was Magickal Jet Fuel™ that can change properties at will and burn hotter than the sun. And they only ever made one batch of it and it was all used that day as evidenced by the fact that other skyscrapers have burned longer and fully engulfed since then, yet none of them fell. Not one. And some had burned before that day too and not one of those fell either. Steel skyscrapers just can't handle that Magickal Jet Fuel™.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-17   11:09:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: James Deffenbach (#73)

You forgot that it was Magickal Jet Fuel™ that can change properties at will and burn hotter than the sun. And they only ever made one batch of it and it was all used that day as evidenced by the fact that other skyscrapers have burned longer and fully engulfed since then, yet none of them fell. Not one. And some had burned before that day too and not one of those fell either. Steel skyscrapers just can't handle that Magickal Jet Fuel™.

All this makes me question an engineer who would design a building to take the direct impact of a jet and not take into account for that jet to be able to hit the building it had to be flying and be loaded with FUEL.

At the very least that explains alot of engineering blunders.LOL.

phantom patriot  posted on  2009-03-17   14:09:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: phantom patriot (#130)

All this makes me question an engineer who would design a building to take the direct impact of a jet and not take into account for that jet to be able to hit the building it had to be flying and be loaded with FUEL.

Oh, they did take it into account. The government and its shills are just lying about it. Why would any sane person believe that KEROSENE could cause steel-framed skyscrapers to fall? Many skyscrapers have had fires as intense, and even more intense, and for a longer period of time, yet the only ones that ever fell were the ones on 9/11. None before or since.

James Deffenbach  posted on  2009-03-17   14:18:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: James Deffenbach (#134)

Many skyscrapers have had fires as intense

How many of them had a 450MPH impact and catastrophic explosion prior to the fire?

war  posted on  2009-03-17   14:29:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#166. To: war (#136)

How many of them had a 450MPH impact and catastrophic explosion prior to the fire?

This skyscraper was SPECIFICALLY designed and built, with special materials, to withstand a direct hit from a plane....

Give it up, war. The .gov lie is a joke!

litus  posted on  2009-03-18   2:06:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#182. To: litus (#166)

And to correct a wrong point of yours...it wasnt special materials it was the design of the building.

And, the architects/engineers admitted that the 767 hits were outside of the parameters of their "707 scenario".

war  posted on  2009-03-18   9:56:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: war, litus (#182)

And, the architects/engineers admitted that the 767 hits were outside of the parameters of their "707 scenario".

And you can of course present evidence to support that lie?

I didn't think so.

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-03-18   11:43:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#186. To: Original_Intent (#184)

Figure 3 shows the comparative energy of impact for the Mitchell bomber that hit the Empire State Building during World War II, a 707, and a 767. The energy contained in the fuel is shown in Figure 4. Considerations of larger aircraft are shown in Figures 5 and 6. The physical sizes of these aircraft are compared with the size of the floor plate of one of the towers in Figure 7. These charts demonstrate conclusively that we should not and cannot design buildings and structures to resist the impact of these aircraft. Instead, we must concentrate our efforts on keeping aircraft away from our tall buildings, sports stadiums, symbolic buildings, atomic plants, and other potential targets.

war  posted on  2009-03-18   12:08:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#197. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, tom007, litus, christine, all (#186)

No one said anything about "resisting" the impact.

The buildings were designed to withstand the impact of a 707 - which you can try to obfuscate but cannot refute.

The difference is size between a 707 and a 767 is relatively small and the 707 had a larger fuel capacity due to a less efficient, earlier, design.

The aircraft were not fully loaded with fuel, admitted in the FEMA report, as it is standard practice to load only enough fuel to make the scheduled flight plus 10% for a margin of safety. Thus the aircraft had about 10,000 gallons of fuel - less than their capacity.

JP 8 (Kerosene) does not burn hot enough even under ideal conditions in a forced air furnace (for example a Jet Engine) to melt steel. Witness the fact that airliners don't crash because the fuel melted the engines.

Paper and Wood are elements of a Class Alpha Fire and do not, even under ideal laboratory conditions, get hot enough to melt steel and there was insufficient quantities to even soften the steel as the steel girder framework acts like a heat sink dispersing the head throughout the structure and thus keeping the temperature down below the critical points.

A localized fire cannot cause a uniform symmetrical simultaneous collapse. The normal failure pattern in a catastrophic structural failure is for there to be a point of greatest weakness. The failure occurs at the weak point first which results in an ASYMMETRICAL failure with the structure moving toward the point of failure. It does not occur simultaneously in 360 degrees causing a uniform symmetrical failure. The uniform symmetrical failure is itself evidence of controlled demolition.

Further in true shill fashion once it was pointed out that the box column center of the building is the primary load bearing structure of the building design you simply followed the fruit loop pattern of avoiding it, denying it, and the trying to shift the debate away from that which you cannot dispute.

You are a liar, are shown to be a liar, and intentionally so. You are either a Shill or an Idiot and at this point Shill is most likely given your repeated use of disinformation tactics.

Original_Intent  posted on  2009-03-18   12:28:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#200. To: Original_Intent (#197)

A localized fire

too bad for you that the WTC fires were not localized...but...suspending disblief for the momenbt and stipulating that they were...they were localized to an area already catostrophically damaged and vital to the structure's support...

war  posted on  2009-03-18   12:36:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#212. To: war (#200)

A localized fire ...

According to the Journal of Australian Fire Investigators, kerosene ignites at around 444°F. The temperature that the fire will eventually reach depends on both the combustion rate (based on O2) and the rate at which heat can be disbursed in the given scenario. Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived. Again, please contact professionals to verify this if you wish. In an oxygen deprived environment, higher temperatures cannot be reached. You can test this yourself by comparing a match in the open vs. a match in a bottle with a very small hole.

T.C. Forensic: Article 10 - PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORS
PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORS. by Tony Cafe. Reproduced from "Firepiont" magazine - Journal of Australian Fire Investigators. ...
www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html - 69k - Cached

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-03-18   14:38:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#214. To: TwentyTwelve (#212)

According to the Journal of Australian Fire Investigators, kerosene ignites at around 444°F. .....In an oxygen deprived environment, higher temperatures cannot be reached.

Another scientific report....published, that is.

Interesting.

litus  posted on  2009-03-18   14:41:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#217. To: litus, War (#214)

www.newworldpeace.com/coverup5a.html

Professor of fire prevention engineering states the jet fuel could not have caused the collapse alone, and asks for a full investigation.

We must try to find out why the twin towers fell.

--------------------------------------------------------------

THE JET fuel fires in the World Trade Center towers did not bring down those two buildings. Indeed, the fuel burned up in minutes. Why, then, did the towers and their 44-story neighbor, WTC-7, which was not struck by a plane, collapse? It's a question that bears generally on fire safety, the safety of building occupants and firefighters and the vulnerability of our buildings to terror by fire.

I expected the National Response Team of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms would participate in an investigation that I surely thought would follow the Sept. 11 attacks. The ATF has the authority to investigate arson involving interstate commerce. Certainly, these horrendous attacks should be construed as arson. I later learned that the ATF was told it would not be needed.

I expected the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) to head the investigations. It's noted for its thoroughness, objectivity and know-how with respect to large-scale disasters. But it was relegated to flight issues dealing with the two hijacked aircraft and the aircraft debris. The buildings were not to be within the scope of their investigation.

There is an ad hoc investigative group, which is sponsored by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the American Society of Civil Engineers. But it does not have the full resources that might be made available, nor does it control the site.

I became increasingly concerned the more I learned about the investigative process, or lack of one. The site teams at the towers were focused on rescue, retrieval and cleanup, not investigation. The structural steel pieces, coded with chalk and stamped numbers to indicate their building location, were being sold as scrap metal.

The evidence needed to identify the cause of the collapse and intensity of the fire was being lost. Had the NTSB or ATF been involved, the site would have been secured, evidence documented and protected. Remember how the pieces of TWA Flight 800 were brought up from the ocean bottom off Long Island and restored to preserve structural evidence essential to identifying the cause of the 1996 crash?

WTC family survivors headed by Sally Regenhard last month urged New York City and federal authorities to launch a formal investigation into the collapse of the towers. As Ms. Regenhard said, her son did not die in a fire because of a collapsed building.

High-rise buildings are required to survive the impact of a modern commercial aircraft. Why shouldn't that include survival from the fire that would erupt? Building codes require that the structural elements of high-rise building withstand a three-hour test in a furnace. Why did the buildings collapse in less time? Was this terrorist attack an isolated event that had no bearing on high-rise vulnerability or on the consequences of fire in general?

The scrapping of steel debris should stop immediately, and all of it that has been sold should be impounded. The site should be controlled to conform to standard investigation practices. All records, video recordings and information about those killed and injured should be secured for analysis.

We can learn a great deal from this catastrophe. Many died because they did not expect buildings to collapse. Firefighters should not be the guinea pigs for determining the structural dynamics of buildings caught in flames. The potential for a building's collapse should be known before it happens. Fire safety needs to be incorporated into the normal design process of buildings.

The federal government has a role in developing the needed technology for fire safety. If there ever was a role for government that transcends political ideologies, this is one.

At least let's start with a formal investigation of the WTC collapse.

By James Quintiere Originally published January 3, 2002

Copyright © 2002, The Baltimore Sun

James Quintiere is the John L. Bryan Professor of Fire Protection Engineering at the University of Maryland, College Park. . E-Mail Address: dgann@jhsph.edu

Posted on the Independent Newswire on 4 January 2002 Ref: www.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=114160

www.firescience.com/fires...ces/authors/quintere.aspx

James G. Quintiere ...earned a Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering in 1970. He has more than 25 years experience in fire research and its applications, is a professor in the Department of Fire Protection Engineering at the University of Maryland. Professor Quintiere has conducted research in the study of fire growth in structures and on materials, has developed test methods for ignition and flames spread, studied smoke movement in full-scale and scale model systems, and has developed theoretical solutions and simulation models for fire behavior and material response to fire. He has more than 100 publications in the field, and is currently Chairman of the International Association for Fire Safety Science (the world organization for fire research and its applications). In addition to his research, he has helped to analyze a number of fire disasters including the Dupont Plaza fire and the more recent Branch Davidian Fire near Waco, Texas.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-03-18   14:45:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#218. To: TwentyTwelve (#217)

Why, then, did the towers and their 44-story neighbor, WTC-7, which was not struck by a plane, collapse?

bumping that; for later read. Tnx

litus  posted on  2009-03-18   14:49:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#223. To: litus (#218)

Why, then, did the towers and their 44-story neighbor, WTC-7, which was not struck by a plane, collapse?

It collapsed from an out of control fire weakening one of the main support beams.

war  posted on  2009-03-18   15:05:05 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#242. To: war (#223)

It collapsed from an out of control fire weakening one of the main support beams.

Another one onto its own footprint........amazing!!!

litus  posted on  2009-03-18   15:56:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#257. To: war, litus (#242)

www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

Published on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 by the Prince George's Journal (Maryland)

Bush-Linked Company Handled Security for the WTC, Dulles and United

by Margie Burns

George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.

The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down."

It also had a three-year contract to maintain electronic security systems at Dulles Airport, according to a Dulles contracting official. Securacom/Stratesec also handled some security for United Airlines in the 1990s, according to McDaniel, but it had been completed before his arriving on the board in 1998.

McDaniel confirmed that the company has security contracts with the Department of Defense, including the U.S. Army, but did not detail the nature of the work, citing security concerns. It has an ongoing line with the General Services Administration - meaning that its bids for contracts are noncompetitive - and also did security work for the Los Alamos laboratory before 1998.

Marvin P. Bush, the president's youngest brother, was a director at Stratesec from 1993 to fiscal year 2000. But the White House has not publicly disclosed Bush connections in any of its responses to 9/11, nor has it mentioned that another Bush-linked business had done security work for the facilities attacked.

Marvin Bush joined Securacom when it was capitalized by the Kuwait-American Corporation, a private investment firm in D.C. that was the security company's major investor, sometimes holding a controlling interest. Marvin Bush has not responded to telephone calls and e-mails for comment.

KuwAm has been linked to the Bush family financially since the Gulf War. One of its principals and a member of the Kuwaiti royal family, Mishal Yousef Saud al Sabah, served on the board of Stratesec.

The managing director at KuwAm, Wirt D. Walker III, was also a principal at Stratesec, and Walker, Marvin Bush and al Sabah are listed in SEC filings as significant shareholders in both companies during that period.

Marvin Bush's last year on the board at Stratesec coincided with his first year on the board of HCC Insurance, formerly Houston Casualty Co., one of the insurance carriers for the WTC. He left the HCC board in November 2002.

But none of these connections has been looked at during the extensive investigations since 9/11. McDaniel says principals and other personnel at Stratesec have not been questioned or debriefed by the FBI or other investigators. Walker declined to answer the same question regarding KuwAm, referring to the public record.

Walker is also chairman and CEO of Aviation General, a Tulsa, Okla.-based aviation company with two subsidiaries. SEC filings also show al Sabah as a principal and shareholder in Aviation General, which was recently delisted by the Nasdaq. Stratesec was delisted by the American Stock Exchange in October 2002.

The suite in which Marvin Bush was annually re-elected, according to public records, is located in the Watergate in space leased to the Saudi government. The company now holds shareholder meetings in space leased by the Kuwaiti government there. The White House has not responded to various requests for comment.

Speaking of the Watergate, Riggs National Bank, where Saudi Princess Al-Faisal had her ``Saudi money trail" bank account, has as one of its executives Jonathan Bush, an uncle of the president. The public has not learned whether Riggs - which services 95 percent of Washington's foreign embassies - will be turning over records relating to Saudi finance.

Meanwhile, Bush has nominated William H. Donaldson to head the Securities and Exchange Commission. Donaldson, a longtime Bush family friend, was a Yale classmate of Jonathan Bush.

On the very day of the tragic space shuttle crash, the government appointed an independent investigative panel, and rightly so. Why didn't it do the same on Sept. 12, 2001?

Margie Burns, a teacher and writer, lives in Cheverly, Maryland.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-03-18   20:17:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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