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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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#304. To: TwentyTwelve (#302)
I don't debate spam. It's time for you to start dealing with the contradictions to your bullshit that I have pointed out.
The two major biullhits that you are promoting is the 707 scenario and the fact that the WTC was NOT a steel framed building.
Geez...trying to do two thigs at once... The two major biulshits that you are promoting are the 707 scenario and ignoring the fact that the WTC was NOT a steel framed building.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/190807Building.htm Ground Zero Building Catches Fire, Doesn't Collapse Prisonplanet.com Sunday Aug 19, 2007 The 40 story Deutsche Bank building next to the ground zero site in New York, where the world trade center once stood, caught fire yesterday and burned intensely for seven hours without collapsing. This represents another modern day miracle in light of the commonly accepted premise that since 9/11, all steel buildings that suffer limited fire damage implode within two hours. This building had even suffered structural damage on 9/11 and had been partially dismantled. The raging fire, which killed two firefighters, was finally declared under control late saturday afternoon, a full seven hours after it had begun to burn. On 9/11 the south tower of the WTC burned for just 56 minutes before collapsing, while the north tower lasted around an hour and 45 minutes. According to the official transcripts of the firefighter tapes, fires in both towers were almost out immediately before the collapses. The saving grace that could have prevented Deutsche Bank from imploding may have been the fact that it was not hit by a plane, as the twin towers were on 9/11. However, the absence of a jet strike wasn't enough to prevent WTC 7 from crumbling into its own footprint within 7 seconds later that fateful afternoon. Hundreds of buildings worldwide suffered major fires that gutted the entire facade of their structure before 9/11 and did not collapse, but since the twin towers behaved differently, rather than consider an alternative explanation for the collapse of the towers, experts simply decided to reverse the fundamental precepts of all known physics to make it easier for everyone to understand. Since that time, it has been commonly accepted that limited fires in tall buildings are 99% certain to cause an almost instantaneous collapse. More pictures and an AP report on the latest blaze follow.
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/may2005/040505potentialfraud.htm Major WTC Insurance Company Questions Building 7 Collapse As Potential Fraud PR Web | May 4 2005 RELATED: WTC 7 Imploded by Silverstein, FDNY and Others A proposal by a small shareholder to withhold approval from the Board of Directors for failure to investigate signs of insurance fraud on 9/11 has been published on the website of the Allianz Group, one of the world’s largest insurers, in preparation for its May 4th annual meeting. (PRWEB) May 2, 2005 -- Allianz Group published a shareholder proposal on April 20th faulting management for ignoring signs of insurance fraud on 9/11/2001. Allianz carried a significant portion of the insurance coverage on the WTC, and stands to pay a corresponding portion of the $3.5 billion payout currently being litigated in New York. In his proposal, shareholder John Leonard, a California native and a publisher of books on 9/11, pointed to reports that building WTC 7 apparently collapsed by demolition, and for no plausible reason related to the 9/11 attacks. Management replied that it relied on official US government reports which made no mention of such evidence. The Allianz Group is incorporated in Germany and has approximately 570,000 shareholders. Under German Stock Companies law, publicly held companies are required to publish shareholder proposals that meet certain criteria. The text of the shareholder proposal, which may also be viewed at the Allianz website, http://www.allianzgroup.com/azgrp/dp/cda/0,,100646-49,00.html, is reproduced below.
BE SURE AND CLICK ON CONTENTS AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE WTC7.net the hidden story of Building 7: The Collapse of WTC ... An investigation of WTC 7's collapse, evidence of controlled demolition. Building 7 was the third skyscraper to be reduced to rubble on September 11, 2001. According to the government, fires, primarily, leveled this building, but fires have never before or since destroyed a steel skyscraper. The team that investigated the collapse were kept away from the crime scene. By the time they published their inconclusive report in May, 2002, the evidence had been destroyed. Why did the government rapidly recycle the steel from the largest and most mysterious engineering failure in world history, and why has the media remained silent?
------------------------------------------------------------------ http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html The Core Structures The Structural System of the Twin Towers Each tower was supported by a structural core extending from its bedrock foundation to its roof. The cores were rectangular pillars with numerous large columns and girders, measuring 87 feet by 133 feet. The core structures housed the elevators, stairs, and other services. The cores had their own flooring systems, which were structurally independent of the floor diaphragms that spanned the space between the cores and the perimeter walls. The core structures, like the perimeter wall structures, were 100 percent steel-framed. Reports on the number of core columns vary from 44 to 47. The exact arrangement of the columns is not known due to the secrecy of detailed engineering drawings of the towers. It is clear from photographs, such as the one on the right, that the core columns were abundantly cross-braced. Establishing the true nature of the core structures is of great importance given that the most widely read document on the World Trade Center attack -- the 9/11 Commission Report -- denies their very existence, claiming the towers' cores were "hollow steel shaft[s]:" For the dimensions, see FEMA report, "World Trade Center Building Performance Study," undated. In addition, the outside of each tower was covered by a frame of 14-inch-wide steel columns; the centers of the steel columns were 40 inches apart. These exterior walls bore most of the weight of the building. The interior core of the buildings was a hollow steel shaft, in which elevators and stairwells were grouped. Ibid. For stairwells and elevators, see Port Authority response to Commission interrogatory, May 2004. 1 column base The top illustration indicates what may have been typical dimensions and thickness of the smaller core columns, about half-way up the tower. The outermost rows of core columns were apparently considerably larger, measuring 54 inches wide. Columns The core columns were steel box-columns that were continuous for their entire height, going from their bedrock anchors in the sub-basements to near the towers' tops, where they transitioned to H-beams. Apparently the box columns, more than 1000 feet long, were built as the towers rose by welding together sections several stories tall. The sections were fabricated by mills in Japan that were uniquely equipped to produce the large pieces. 2 Some of the core columns apparently had outside dimensions of 36 inches by 16 inches. Others had larger dimensions, measuring 52 inches by 22 inches. 3 The core columns were oriented so that their longer dimensions were perpendicular to the core structures' longer, 133-foot-wide sides. Construction photographs found at the Skyscraper Museum in New York City indicate that the outermost rows of core columns on the cores' longer sides were of the larger dimensions. Both the FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study and the NIST's Draft Report on the Twin Towers fail to disclose the dimensions of the core columns, and the NIST Report implies that only the four core columns on each core's corners had larger dimensions. Like the perimeter columns -- and like steel columns in all tall buildings -- the thickness of the steel in the core columns tapered from bottom to top. Near the bottoms of the towers the steel was four inches thick, whereas near the tops it may have been as little as 1/4th inch thick. The top figure in the illustration to the right is a cross-section of one of the smaller core columns from about half-way up a tower, where the steel was about two inches thick. The bottom figure shows the base of one of the larger core columns, where the steel was five inches thick. The bases of the columns also had slabs of steel running through their centers, making them almost solid. Column Arrangement The exact arrangement of the columns and how they were cross-braced is not apparent from public documents such as FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study. The arrangement of box columns depicted in Figure 2-10 of Chapter 2 (pictured to the right) seems plausible, even though it contradicts other illustrations in the report showing a more random arrangement. It depicts the top floors of a tower and does not indicate the widths of the columns on a typical floor. Cross-Bracing Construction photographs show that the core columns were connected to each other at each floor by large square girders and I-beams about two feet deep. The debris photograph below shows what appears to be one of the smaller core columns surrounded by perpendicular I-beams approximately three feet deep. In addition, the tops of core structures were further connected by the sloping beams of the hat truss structures. This photograph from Ground Zero is apparently of one of the smaller core columns connected to a set of I-beams. This image from the documentary Up From Zero shows the base of a core column, whose dimensions, minus the four flanges, are apparently 52 by 22 inches, with walls at least 5 inches thick. References 1. 9-11 Commission Report; NOTES; Chapter 9 Heroism and Horror; Note 1, 9-11Commission.gov, 2. APPENDIX B: Structural Steel and Steel Connections, FEMA.gov, 2002 3. World's Tallest Towers Begin to Show Themselves on New York City Skyline, Engineering News Record, 1/1/1970
It's time for you to start dealing with the contradictions to your bullshit that I have pointed out.
The Core Structures The Structural System of the Twin Towers You call this spam? Deal with it.
Deal with it. I have which goes to show that you ARE spamming and not reading.
I don't agree with the conclusions...nevertheless....I see the word "steel" throughout when speaking of the design of this building. The towers were designed and built in the mid-1960s through the early 1970s. They represented a new approach to skyscrapers in that they were to be very lightweight and involved modular construction methods in order to accelerate the schedule and to reduce the costs. To a structural engineer, a skyscraper is modeled as a large cantilever vertical column. Each tower was 64 m square, standing 411 m above street level and 21 m below grade. This produces a height-to-width ratio of 6.8. The total weight of the structure was roughly 500,000 t, but wind load, rather than the gravity load, dominated the design. The building is a huge sail that must resist a 225 km/h hurricane. It was designed to resist a wind load of 2 kPa—a total of lateral load of 5,000 t. In order to make each tower capable of withstanding this wind load, the architects selected a lightweight “perimeter tube” design consisting of 244 exterior columns of 36 cm square steel box section on 100 cm centers ... The clean-up of the World Trade Center will take many months. After all, 1,000,000 t of rubble will require 20,000 to 30,000 truckloads to haul away the material. The asbestos fire insulation makes the task hazardous for those working nearby. Interestingly, the approximately 300,000 t of steel is fully recyclable and represents only one day’s production of the U.S. steel industry. Separation of the stone and concrete is a common matter for modern steel shredders. The land-filling of 700,000 t of concrete and stone rubble is more problematic. However, the volume is equivalent to six football fields, 6–9 m deep, so it is manageable.
Fron YOUR link, Moonie: The Perimeter Walls The Structural System of the Twin Towers The towers' perimeter walls comprised dense grids of vertical steel columns and horizontal spandrel plates. These, along with the core structures, supported the towers. In addition to supporting gravity loads, the perimeter walls stiffened the Towers against lateral loads, particularly those due to winds. The fact that these structures were on the exterior of the Towers made them particularly efficient at carrying lateral loads. Richard Roth, speaking on behlf of the architectural firm that designed the Towers, described each of the perimeter walls as essentially "a steel beam 209' deep." 1 Regardless, it is clear that the core structures were designed to support several times the weight of each tower by themselves. ~snip~ When the perimeter SUPPORT walls were compromised and further, lesser load bearing support systems became compromised over time, there was only one ossible outcome.
A steel framed building is one in which the ENTIRE structure is effectively laticed I-Beams fashioned into rectangles and/or squares and walls and floors are then constructed using them as support. I posted a picture of one above... The WTC was constructed as a hollow tube external wall support structure that would bear both horizontal and lateral loads while an inner core would have some horizontal support function as well as provide for a hanger for the floors instead of the usual system of columns: The tubular framing system for the perimeter walls resisted all of the lateral forces imposed by wind and earthquake, as well as the impact loads imposed on September 11. Although we had used closely spaced columns in an earlier building, it was Minoru Yamasaki who proposed that we use narrow windows in the WTC towers to give people a sense of security as they looked down from on high. Our contribution was to make the closely spaced columns the fundamental lateral- force-resisting system for the two towers. The tubular framing system also precluded the need for the customary 30-foot column spacing in interior areas, making column-free, rentable space structurally desirable.
Why 'Debunkers' Help The 911 Truth Movement
There are two kinds of Moonbats who exist... Troofers and Birfers...
Troofers and Birfers... Debunkers are either: 1. Government shills or 2. just plain stupid
You didn't have anything better than "I'm rubber and you're glue..."?
Well, of course it didn't. No Magickal Jet Fuel™. If a drop of that had hit it, it would have been doomed.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. You diagnosed their problem. Either they are paid disinformationists OR too stupid to be allowed to run loose.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Troofers and Birfers... You sound like a member of the knuckledragger crew over at FreeRepublic. As I said earlier, I really don't want to waste my time trying to have an exchange of ideas with a person who is either extremely stupid and will NEVER accept anything that contradicts his fairytale illusion of what is real, or one who is PURPOSELY ACTING stupid in order to perform his duties as assigned by his superiors. I might toss out some relevent info from time to time, but you are either not intelligent enough to comprehend it or you deliberately ignoring the simple truths that I present. I've often delt with disinformation specialists over the many years I've been posting on FR and later LP. I had gone back and forth for days, weeks, and sometimes even months and years with the best (or worst) of them. You don't rate that sort of attention. Here on 4um people don't buy the bullshit you sort of people are selling, so I don't need to be as active in exposing you and your lies, people already know what the situation is...
Do you even know what a LATERAL LOAD is? It's the load placed upon the walls of the building exerted by the wind. So what's your point?
Dude...seriously...nothing you've presented has withstood scrutiny. Nothing. You folks act as if it was a fly that hit the towers that day...I was there...I have never heard anything as loud as those two planes hitting those towers... You've seen the destruction that plane crashes cause when they hit earth...what makes you believe that what was inside the Towers would NOT have been destroyed? You keep comparing the WTC to "steel framed buildings". I have shown you several times over that the buildings were NOT steel framed. I ahve provided you with the words of the Structural Engineer who has explained the hollow tube construction method that was used. Yet, still, you insist on comparing the WTC to steel framed buildings. I have given you the words of the structural engineer who said that the 707 scenario was NOT the same scenario as what occurred on 9/11. Yet, still, you insist on ignoring that and creating yoru own bizarre 707 scenario as if it were fact. Doouschenbag keeps trying to promote ther idea/belief that the govenment findfings were that jet fuel btrought the towers down. I posted the exact statement from the NIST Report which states SPECIFICALLY that jet fule did not cause the collapse. TwentyTwelve has spammed this trhead in the obvious hopes that he can befuddle me with bullshit. I went through his mess and refuted several points and sourced them. His response was to continue to post spam that repeated the same bullshit that I had refuted...
Unbelievable! How stupid can you be?
God is always good!
Yep...it's the horizontal load...gravity load is verticall load...the outer support had to be strong enough to serve a dual purpose. THAT is what you are grnoring...when the outer support was breached, the buildings weight bearing mechinism was compromised both vertical and lateral...when the core was damaged by the impact and explosion it was furher breached...when the trusses holding the platform gave way, the WHOLE Building was at the mercy of gravity.
Obviously exponentiallly less than you. The "framing" of the WTC was a core inside of a hollow tube with platforms on trusses. I've posted the structural enigneer tellign you exactly that. Why do you ignore it?
I believe you can figure that out for yourself. How smart can a government-loving Obamabot actually be?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Only a small part of the outer support was damaged, and the central core was relatively unscathed. The "horizontal load" is just a red herring as it has no bearing on the building's ability to support the weight of the building itself. The fires did not burn long enough to heat the structure to a point it would weaken the steel, as the building acted as a huge heatsink and dissipated the heat from the office fires. Even IF a few floors had collapsed at the height of the actual damage, there would not have been enough energy to cause a total collapse of the building. And you STILL haven't answered the following questions; A) Given that the time it would have taken for an object to fall from the top of the building was only several seconds less than the time it took for the buildings to totally collapse, the fact is, it only took several seconds for 100 or so floors built of steel and concrete to be pulverized and destroyed. How do you explain that? B) What happened to the core? If the floors had pancaked as claimed, they should have slid down the core and the core should have remained standing. C) The spire (remnant of the core) was seen for about 20 seconds after the collapse, then it apparently vaporized into dust. How do you explain that? D) The towers were designed to withstand an impact of a heavier and faster aircraft than those which impacted it. How do you explain the fact they failed when they were designed to withstand that event?
Dude, you ignored my questions and answered them with something resembling a wild eyed sermon. You can not answer the questions because the only answers (honest answers at least) would be something contrary to your religious devotion to the government tale.
Ther3e you go again...you posted that above and were shown to be incorrect: The fires did not burn long enough to heat the structure to a point it would weaken the steel, as the building acted as a huge heatsink and dissipated the heat from the office fires. Once again you posted that above and were refuted: Given that the time it would have taken for an object to fall from the top of the building was only several seconds less than the time it took for the buildings to totally collapse, the fact is, it only took several seconds for 100 or so floors built of steel and concrete to be pulverized and destroyed. A) The steel was not pulverized...they only things that were pulverized were oobjets that could be pulverized. Microscopic analysis of WTC dust by Nicholas Petraco, BS, MS, DABC, FAAFS, FNYMS at The New York Microscopic Society lecture held at AMNH 28 May 2003: 45.1% Fiberglass, rock wool (insulation, fireproofing) 31.8% Plaster (gypsum), concrete products (calcium sulfate, selenite, muscodite) 7.1% Charred wood and debris 2.1% Paper fibers 2.1% Mica flakes 2.0% Ceiling tiles (fiberglass component) 2.0% Synthetic fibers 1.4% Glass fragments 1.4% Natural fibers 1.3% Human remains Trace asbestos (it became illegal to use during the construction of the WTC) Other trace elements: aluminum, paint pigments, blood, hair, glass wool with resin, and prescription drugs were found. Oddly missing is...wait for it...STEEL... B) I posted a chart above showing that the collapse took time well in excess of free fall speed. What happened to the core? INertia and gravity destroyed it, The towers were designed to withstand an impact of a heavier and faster aircraft than those which impacted it. How do you explain the fact they failed when they were designed to withstand that event? And there you go yet again...I POST THE WORDS OF THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WHO STATED THAT IS BULLSHIT...I POSTED THE SPECS OF THE 707 V 767 THAT SHOWED YOU THAT STETMENT OF CONTRAST IS BULLSHIT.
The exchanges between you and I on this whole thread, most recently the one above, speaks otehrwise...
O_I posted this farther upthread and this is just a short excerpt. I thought it was great. For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose Kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourising a sixty-five ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees centigrade for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of Kerosene is enough to: - Completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft - Have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel - melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel - Still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building This Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those Kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourised. And never again will I take Kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourised into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire. These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning Kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the black smoke coming from the WTC indicates an oxygen starved fire - therefore not particularly hot - they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 degrees centigrade, without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics. Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways. Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of September 11th. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. What, is he saying that the WTC was NOT designed to withstand the impact of a 707? The 767 was carrying less than half its fuel capacity, and its fuel capacity was about the same as a 707. A 707 cruises at 607 mph, and a 767 cruises at 530 mph. So what part of that don't you understand?
Too bad for you that entire scenario was conjured up in the mind of a moonbat. Did the fact that there is not one citation in that piece of fiction escape you?
Yep, yet people like war can't understand any of that...
Pitiful, isn't it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Once again for the Fuctionally Stupid: The two towers were the first structures outside of the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark. To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires. --Leslie Robertson, Cheif Structural Engineer WTC The 707 sscenario was a highly specific one.
Are you trying to say that the rising smoke is actual damage to the building? It was only several floors that had exterior damage, and that was restricted to the entry and exit points. The load of the upper floors was still being supported by the central core, and very little load was distributed about the exterior walls, which themselves were steel columns of which only relatively small sections were damaged. In fact, there is very little apparent damage to the exterior wall's steel columns from the images you posted, just flames shooting out of broken windows.
Nope. Want to guess again? Maybe if you read what you stated and then carry that context over the the picture it might hit you. I'm not optoimistic tho. It was only several floors that had exterior damage, and that was restricted to the entry and exit points. Bullshit...the planes exploded inside the building...I am stumped for an apy adjective to quantify the level of stupidity required ot believe that such an explosion was confined only to the "entry and exit" points. Your claim is that the plane hit the towers...did nothing until it rached the next wall at which time it exploded outward doing no damage in between. My IQ alone dropped 65 points tyoing it...I can imagine how much iot has to drop to actually ***think*** that. In fact, there is very little apparent damage to the exterior wall's steel columns You're out of your fucking mind...
--Leslie Robertson, Cheif Structural Engineer WTC Wherever you obtained that quote apparently can't even spell the word CHIEF. What you fail to consider is that the fires did not burn hot enough to weaken the structure. The thermal energy released by the office fires was not sufficient to heat any steel support members to a point where they would weaken. Regardless, how do you explain the fact that it only took several seconds to demolish 100 floors of undamaged steel and concrete?
Bullshit. The majority of the jet fuel exploded OUTSIDE of the buildings and resulted in massive fireballs, as any video of the impacts would show. Yes there was SOME fuel that burned inside the building, yet there were survivors from the very floors that were impacted, so there was not a massive explosion INSIDE the building as you claim. Well, not from the impacts at least, those explosions came later...
Post either of the two images and point out the actual damage to the exterior columns.
Comments (345 - 607) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
#305. To: TwentyTwelve (#303)
#306. To: TwentyTwelve (#303)
#307. To: war, RickyJ, Litus (#301)
#308. To: war, Litus (#304)
#309. To: war, Litus (#304)
An investigation of WTC 7's collapse, evidence of controlled demolition.
www.wtc7.net/ - 7k -
#310. To: war, litus (#306)
9-11 Research: The Core Structures
structural cores of the World Trade Center Twin Towers,core columns.
911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html - 23k -
#311. To: TwentyTwelve (#310)
I don't debate spam.
#312. To: war (#311)
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html
#313. To: TwentyTwelve (#312)
You call this spam?
#314. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#305)
the WTC was NOT a steel framed building.
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation [http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html]
#315. To: TwentyTwelve (#312)
#316. To: litus (#314)
#317. To: war (#313)
Two kinds of 9-11 truth deniers (debunkers) exist today: Those who deny our government has the expertise to carry out the 9-11 attack, and those who deny ...
www.rense.com/general73/whyd.htm - 29k -
#318. To: TwentyTwelve (#317)
#319. To: war (#318)
There are two kinds of Moonbats who exist...
#320. To: TwentyTwelve (#319)
#321. To: TwentyTwelve (#307)
The 40 story Deutsche Bank building next to the ground zero site in New York, where the world trade center once stood, caught fire yesterday and burned intensely for seven hours without collapsing.
Lord Acton
#322. To: TwentyTwelve (#319)
Lord Acton
#323. To: war (#318)
There are two kinds of Moonbats who exist...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#324. To: war (#315)
In addition to supporting gravity loads, the perimeter walls stiffened the Towers against lateral loads
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#325. To: FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, itus, James Deffenbach (#323)
I might toss out some relevent info from time to time, but you are either not intelligent enough to comprehend it or you deliberately ignoring the simple truths that I present.
#326. To: war (#325)
I have shown you several times over that the buildings were NOT steel framed.
#327. To: FormerLurker (#324)
Do you even know what a LATERAL LOAD is?
#328. To: RickyJ (#326)
How stupid can you be?
#329. To: RickyJ (#326)
Unbelievable! How stupid can you be?
Lord Acton
#330. To: war (#327)
THAT is what you are grnoring...when the outer support was breached, the buildings weight bearing mechinism was compromised both vertical and lateral...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#331. To: war (#325)
Dude...seriously...nothing you've presented has withstood scrutiny. Nothing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#332. To: FormerLurker (#330)
Only a small part of the outer support was damaged
#333. To: FormerLurker (#331)
you ignored my questions
#334. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#330)
Lord Acton
#335. To: war (#332)
And there you go yet again...I POST THE WORDS OF THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WHO STATED THAT IS BULLSHIT...I POSTED THE SPECS OF THE 707 V 767 THAT SHOWED YOU THAT STETMENT OF CONTRAST IS BULLSHIT.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#336. To: James Deffenbach (#334)
#337. To: James Deffenbach (#334)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#338. To: FormerLurker (#337)
Yep, yet people like war can't understand any of that...
Lord Acton
#339. To: FormerLurker (#335)
What, is he saying that the WTC was NOT designed to withstand the impact of a 707?
#340. To: war (#332)
Ther3e you go again...you posted that above and were shown to be incorrect:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#341. To: FormerLurker (#340)
Are you trying to say that the rising smoke is actual damage to the building?
#342. To: war (#339)
little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#343. To: war (#341)
Bullshit...the planes exploded inside the building...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#344. To: war (#341)
Maybe if you read what you stated and then carry that context over the the picture it might hit you.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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