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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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#311. To: TwentyTwelve (#310)
It's time for you to start dealing with the contradictions to your bullshit that I have pointed out.
The Core Structures The Structural System of the Twin Towers You call this spam? Deal with it.
Deal with it. I have which goes to show that you ARE spamming and not reading.
I don't agree with the conclusions...nevertheless....I see the word "steel" throughout when speaking of the design of this building. The towers were designed and built in the mid-1960s through the early 1970s. They represented a new approach to skyscrapers in that they were to be very lightweight and involved modular construction methods in order to accelerate the schedule and to reduce the costs. To a structural engineer, a skyscraper is modeled as a large cantilever vertical column. Each tower was 64 m square, standing 411 m above street level and 21 m below grade. This produces a height-to-width ratio of 6.8. The total weight of the structure was roughly 500,000 t, but wind load, rather than the gravity load, dominated the design. The building is a huge sail that must resist a 225 km/h hurricane. It was designed to resist a wind load of 2 kPa—a total of lateral load of 5,000 t. In order to make each tower capable of withstanding this wind load, the architects selected a lightweight “perimeter tube” design consisting of 244 exterior columns of 36 cm square steel box section on 100 cm centers ... The clean-up of the World Trade Center will take many months. After all, 1,000,000 t of rubble will require 20,000 to 30,000 truckloads to haul away the material. The asbestos fire insulation makes the task hazardous for those working nearby. Interestingly, the approximately 300,000 t of steel is fully recyclable and represents only one day’s production of the U.S. steel industry. Separation of the stone and concrete is a common matter for modern steel shredders. The land-filling of 700,000 t of concrete and stone rubble is more problematic. However, the volume is equivalent to six football fields, 6–9 m deep, so it is manageable.
Fron YOUR link, Moonie: The Perimeter Walls The Structural System of the Twin Towers The towers' perimeter walls comprised dense grids of vertical steel columns and horizontal spandrel plates. These, along with the core structures, supported the towers. In addition to supporting gravity loads, the perimeter walls stiffened the Towers against lateral loads, particularly those due to winds. The fact that these structures were on the exterior of the Towers made them particularly efficient at carrying lateral loads. Richard Roth, speaking on behlf of the architectural firm that designed the Towers, described each of the perimeter walls as essentially "a steel beam 209' deep." 1 Regardless, it is clear that the core structures were designed to support several times the weight of each tower by themselves. ~snip~ When the perimeter SUPPORT walls were compromised and further, lesser load bearing support systems became compromised over time, there was only one ossible outcome.
A steel framed building is one in which the ENTIRE structure is effectively laticed I-Beams fashioned into rectangles and/or squares and walls and floors are then constructed using them as support. I posted a picture of one above... The WTC was constructed as a hollow tube external wall support structure that would bear both horizontal and lateral loads while an inner core would have some horizontal support function as well as provide for a hanger for the floors instead of the usual system of columns: The tubular framing system for the perimeter walls resisted all of the lateral forces imposed by wind and earthquake, as well as the impact loads imposed on September 11. Although we had used closely spaced columns in an earlier building, it was Minoru Yamasaki who proposed that we use narrow windows in the WTC towers to give people a sense of security as they looked down from on high. Our contribution was to make the closely spaced columns the fundamental lateral- force-resisting system for the two towers. The tubular framing system also precluded the need for the customary 30-foot column spacing in interior areas, making column-free, rentable space structurally desirable.
Why 'Debunkers' Help The 911 Truth Movement
There are two kinds of Moonbats who exist... Troofers and Birfers...
Troofers and Birfers... Debunkers are either: 1. Government shills or 2. just plain stupid
You didn't have anything better than "I'm rubber and you're glue..."?
Well, of course it didn't. No Magickal Jet Fuel™. If a drop of that had hit it, it would have been doomed.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. You diagnosed their problem. Either they are paid disinformationists OR too stupid to be allowed to run loose.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Troofers and Birfers... You sound like a member of the knuckledragger crew over at FreeRepublic. As I said earlier, I really don't want to waste my time trying to have an exchange of ideas with a person who is either extremely stupid and will NEVER accept anything that contradicts his fairytale illusion of what is real, or one who is PURPOSELY ACTING stupid in order to perform his duties as assigned by his superiors. I might toss out some relevent info from time to time, but you are either not intelligent enough to comprehend it or you deliberately ignoring the simple truths that I present. I've often delt with disinformation specialists over the many years I've been posting on FR and later LP. I had gone back and forth for days, weeks, and sometimes even months and years with the best (or worst) of them. You don't rate that sort of attention. Here on 4um people don't buy the bullshit you sort of people are selling, so I don't need to be as active in exposing you and your lies, people already know what the situation is...
Do you even know what a LATERAL LOAD is? It's the load placed upon the walls of the building exerted by the wind. So what's your point?
Dude...seriously...nothing you've presented has withstood scrutiny. Nothing. You folks act as if it was a fly that hit the towers that day...I was there...I have never heard anything as loud as those two planes hitting those towers... You've seen the destruction that plane crashes cause when they hit earth...what makes you believe that what was inside the Towers would NOT have been destroyed? You keep comparing the WTC to "steel framed buildings". I have shown you several times over that the buildings were NOT steel framed. I ahve provided you with the words of the Structural Engineer who has explained the hollow tube construction method that was used. Yet, still, you insist on comparing the WTC to steel framed buildings. I have given you the words of the structural engineer who said that the 707 scenario was NOT the same scenario as what occurred on 9/11. Yet, still, you insist on ignoring that and creating yoru own bizarre 707 scenario as if it were fact. Doouschenbag keeps trying to promote ther idea/belief that the govenment findfings were that jet fuel btrought the towers down. I posted the exact statement from the NIST Report which states SPECIFICALLY that jet fule did not cause the collapse. TwentyTwelve has spammed this trhead in the obvious hopes that he can befuddle me with bullshit. I went through his mess and refuted several points and sourced them. His response was to continue to post spam that repeated the same bullshit that I had refuted...
Unbelievable! How stupid can you be?
God is always good!
Yep...it's the horizontal load...gravity load is verticall load...the outer support had to be strong enough to serve a dual purpose. THAT is what you are grnoring...when the outer support was breached, the buildings weight bearing mechinism was compromised both vertical and lateral...when the core was damaged by the impact and explosion it was furher breached...when the trusses holding the platform gave way, the WHOLE Building was at the mercy of gravity.
Obviously exponentiallly less than you. The "framing" of the WTC was a core inside of a hollow tube with platforms on trusses. I've posted the structural enigneer tellign you exactly that. Why do you ignore it?
I believe you can figure that out for yourself. How smart can a government-loving Obamabot actually be?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Only a small part of the outer support was damaged, and the central core was relatively unscathed. The "horizontal load" is just a red herring as it has no bearing on the building's ability to support the weight of the building itself. The fires did not burn long enough to heat the structure to a point it would weaken the steel, as the building acted as a huge heatsink and dissipated the heat from the office fires. Even IF a few floors had collapsed at the height of the actual damage, there would not have been enough energy to cause a total collapse of the building. And you STILL haven't answered the following questions; A) Given that the time it would have taken for an object to fall from the top of the building was only several seconds less than the time it took for the buildings to totally collapse, the fact is, it only took several seconds for 100 or so floors built of steel and concrete to be pulverized and destroyed. How do you explain that? B) What happened to the core? If the floors had pancaked as claimed, they should have slid down the core and the core should have remained standing. C) The spire (remnant of the core) was seen for about 20 seconds after the collapse, then it apparently vaporized into dust. How do you explain that? D) The towers were designed to withstand an impact of a heavier and faster aircraft than those which impacted it. How do you explain the fact they failed when they were designed to withstand that event?
Dude, you ignored my questions and answered them with something resembling a wild eyed sermon. You can not answer the questions because the only answers (honest answers at least) would be something contrary to your religious devotion to the government tale.
Ther3e you go again...you posted that above and were shown to be incorrect: The fires did not burn long enough to heat the structure to a point it would weaken the steel, as the building acted as a huge heatsink and dissipated the heat from the office fires. Once again you posted that above and were refuted: Given that the time it would have taken for an object to fall from the top of the building was only several seconds less than the time it took for the buildings to totally collapse, the fact is, it only took several seconds for 100 or so floors built of steel and concrete to be pulverized and destroyed. A) The steel was not pulverized...they only things that were pulverized were oobjets that could be pulverized. Microscopic analysis of WTC dust by Nicholas Petraco, BS, MS, DABC, FAAFS, FNYMS at The New York Microscopic Society lecture held at AMNH 28 May 2003: 45.1% Fiberglass, rock wool (insulation, fireproofing) 31.8% Plaster (gypsum), concrete products (calcium sulfate, selenite, muscodite) 7.1% Charred wood and debris 2.1% Paper fibers 2.1% Mica flakes 2.0% Ceiling tiles (fiberglass component) 2.0% Synthetic fibers 1.4% Glass fragments 1.4% Natural fibers 1.3% Human remains Trace asbestos (it became illegal to use during the construction of the WTC) Other trace elements: aluminum, paint pigments, blood, hair, glass wool with resin, and prescription drugs were found. Oddly missing is...wait for it...STEEL... B) I posted a chart above showing that the collapse took time well in excess of free fall speed. What happened to the core? INertia and gravity destroyed it, The towers were designed to withstand an impact of a heavier and faster aircraft than those which impacted it. How do you explain the fact they failed when they were designed to withstand that event? And there you go yet again...I POST THE WORDS OF THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WHO STATED THAT IS BULLSHIT...I POSTED THE SPECS OF THE 707 V 767 THAT SHOWED YOU THAT STETMENT OF CONTRAST IS BULLSHIT.
The exchanges between you and I on this whole thread, most recently the one above, speaks otehrwise...
O_I posted this farther upthread and this is just a short excerpt. I thought it was great. For this, its necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose Kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vapourising a sixty-five ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000 degrees centigrade for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts, starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there was a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Gleefully, they claim that a few thousand gallons of Kerosene is enough to: - Completely vapourise a sixty-five ton aircraft - Have enough left over to burn ferociously enough for over an hour at the impact point to melt steel - melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel - Still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building This Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those Kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vapourised. And never again will I take Kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vapourised into nothing along with with the rest of the camp site, and still leaving enough of the deadly stuff to start a massive forest fire. These whackos are actually claiming that the raging inferno allegedly created by the miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning Kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the black smoke coming from the WTC indicates an oxygen starved fire - therefore not particularly hot - they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 degrees centigrade, without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics. Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel frames softened, they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways. Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of jet fuel, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and redefined the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way? The tower fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of September 11th. It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knew no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the tower at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures originally designed to resist many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a Boeing passenger jet straying off course.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. What, is he saying that the WTC was NOT designed to withstand the impact of a 707? The 767 was carrying less than half its fuel capacity, and its fuel capacity was about the same as a 707. A 707 cruises at 607 mph, and a 767 cruises at 530 mph. So what part of that don't you understand?
Too bad for you that entire scenario was conjured up in the mind of a moonbat. Did the fact that there is not one citation in that piece of fiction escape you?
Yep, yet people like war can't understand any of that...
Pitiful, isn't it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Once again for the Fuctionally Stupid: The two towers were the first structures outside of the military and nuclear industries designed to resist the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed that the jetliner would be lost in the fog, seeking to land at JFK or at Newark. To the best of our knowledge, little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires. --Leslie Robertson, Cheif Structural Engineer WTC The 707 sscenario was a highly specific one.
Are you trying to say that the rising smoke is actual damage to the building? It was only several floors that had exterior damage, and that was restricted to the entry and exit points. The load of the upper floors was still being supported by the central core, and very little load was distributed about the exterior walls, which themselves were steel columns of which only relatively small sections were damaged. In fact, there is very little apparent damage to the exterior wall's steel columns from the images you posted, just flames shooting out of broken windows.
Nope. Want to guess again? Maybe if you read what you stated and then carry that context over the the picture it might hit you. I'm not optoimistic tho. It was only several floors that had exterior damage, and that was restricted to the entry and exit points. Bullshit...the planes exploded inside the building...I am stumped for an apy adjective to quantify the level of stupidity required ot believe that such an explosion was confined only to the "entry and exit" points. Your claim is that the plane hit the towers...did nothing until it rached the next wall at which time it exploded outward doing no damage in between. My IQ alone dropped 65 points tyoing it...I can imagine how much iot has to drop to actually ***think*** that. In fact, there is very little apparent damage to the exterior wall's steel columns You're out of your fucking mind...
--Leslie Robertson, Cheif Structural Engineer WTC Wherever you obtained that quote apparently can't even spell the word CHIEF. What you fail to consider is that the fires did not burn hot enough to weaken the structure. The thermal energy released by the office fires was not sufficient to heat any steel support members to a point where they would weaken. Regardless, how do you explain the fact that it only took several seconds to demolish 100 floors of undamaged steel and concrete?
Bullshit. The majority of the jet fuel exploded OUTSIDE of the buildings and resulted in massive fireballs, as any video of the impacts would show. Yes there was SOME fuel that burned inside the building, yet there were survivors from the very floors that were impacted, so there was not a massive explosion INSIDE the building as you claim. Well, not from the impacts at least, those explosions came later...
Post either of the two images and point out the actual damage to the exterior columns.
Wow, so your IQ is at around zero now, eh?
INertia and gravity destroyed it, Inertia? It was at rest, so its inertia would have been to RESIST motion in any direction. Gravity? It was designed to SUPPORT a MASSIVE load. The pancake theory insists that the trusses buckled and caused a collapse of the FLOORS but does not accout for the damage to the CORE. The CORE could NOT pancake as it was a rigid structure. Try again.
Again, you fail to address the question as to why it only took several seconds to demolish 100 floors of undamaged steel and concrete.
The collapse of the WTC ... http://www.serendipity.li/wot/debris.htm To accelerate steel removal, Weeks Marine Inc. has created two steel offloading areas that ramped up operations last week to transport debris by barge for recycling. The sites are located at Pier 25 on the Hudson River and at Pier 6 at the tip of lower Manhattan. The city's usual garbage removal facilities, which is handling smaller site debris, could not accommodate steel pieces. Weeks was still dredging the Pier 25 site even as trucks began delivering steel to the site for offloading by crane to barges that can hold up to 3,000 tons. "That's equivalent to 150 truckloads," says Weeks Senior Vice President George Wittich. Business was slow at first as truck-drivers maneuvered through the site and city streets and had to pass muster with FBI officials checking for evidence. One site source says security was beefed up after some drivers sold steel privately to scrap dealers. Wittich says the city has awarded contracts to two private scrap dealers to handle 50,000 tons of steel. The rest is expected to be used to create offshore artificial reefs or head for "upland" disposal. While the company obtained dredging permits in seemingly record time, environmental permits for steel disposal have yet to be issued. "The rate that the stuff can be brought to the reef is less than what's coming out," says Weeks President Richard S. Weeks. Wittich says larger steel debris, as big as 30 tons, may be used for slurry wall stabilization. RICH GARLOCK: Going below, it was smoky and really hot. We had rescue teams with meters for oxygen and carbon dioxide. They also had temperature monitors. Here WTC 6 is over my head. The debris past the columns was red-hot, molten, running. I did some quick numbers with Gary Panariello, an engineer from Thornton-Tomasetti, to try and determine what the load on WTC 6 was and how much of the lateral system of the building the contractor could take down. There were a lot of judgment calls; people had immediate needs and needed immediate responses. Picture (R) - More Bent Steel More pictures of steel and skeleton of steel: As to "fire": PREVIOUS 1975 FIRE to North Tower:
The core columns were massive indeed runninng up 1000 feet from the bedrock and welded together in multi-story sections. The wall of these boxes were from two to five inches thick. Many posters have referenced the adiabatic flame temperature at which kerosene burns (just shy of 1800° F) which is a theoretical maximum oxidation temperature not even achieved within jet engines, when in reality at standard pressure and temperature in an open flame, kerosene burns at a maximum 575° F in a well ventilated environment. It is difficult to imagine that such massive core structures could seriously have been weakened by an aromatic liquid fueled fire, viz. the high rise holocausts in Madrid, Colombia and Shanghai. To take this kind of damage at face value, one would have to discount not only the much higher temperatures required to weaken or melt steel, but also ignore the ability of such a large volume of steel to conduct great quantities of heat away from its source. Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA. Wow, so your IQ is at around zero now, eh? Heck no, the guy would be below zero if that happened.
God is always good!
Comments (352 - 607) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI don't debate spam.
#312. To: war (#311)
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html
#313. To: TwentyTwelve (#312)
You call this spam?
#314. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#305)
the WTC was NOT a steel framed building.
Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation [http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html]
#315. To: TwentyTwelve (#312)
#316. To: litus (#314)
#317. To: war (#313)
Two kinds of 9-11 truth deniers (debunkers) exist today: Those who deny our government has the expertise to carry out the 9-11 attack, and those who deny ...
www.rense.com/general73/whyd.htm - 29k -
#318. To: TwentyTwelve (#317)
#319. To: war (#318)
There are two kinds of Moonbats who exist...
#320. To: TwentyTwelve (#319)
#321. To: TwentyTwelve (#307)
The 40 story Deutsche Bank building next to the ground zero site in New York, where the world trade center once stood, caught fire yesterday and burned intensely for seven hours without collapsing.
Lord Acton
#322. To: TwentyTwelve (#319)
Lord Acton
#323. To: war (#318)
There are two kinds of Moonbats who exist...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#324. To: war (#315)
In addition to supporting gravity loads, the perimeter walls stiffened the Towers against lateral loads
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#325. To: FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, itus, James Deffenbach (#323)
I might toss out some relevent info from time to time, but you are either not intelligent enough to comprehend it or you deliberately ignoring the simple truths that I present.
#326. To: war (#325)
I have shown you several times over that the buildings were NOT steel framed.
#327. To: FormerLurker (#324)
Do you even know what a LATERAL LOAD is?
#328. To: RickyJ (#326)
How stupid can you be?
#329. To: RickyJ (#326)
Unbelievable! How stupid can you be?
Lord Acton
#330. To: war (#327)
THAT is what you are grnoring...when the outer support was breached, the buildings weight bearing mechinism was compromised both vertical and lateral...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#331. To: war (#325)
Dude...seriously...nothing you've presented has withstood scrutiny. Nothing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#332. To: FormerLurker (#330)
Only a small part of the outer support was damaged
#333. To: FormerLurker (#331)
you ignored my questions
#334. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent (#330)
Lord Acton
#335. To: war (#332)
And there you go yet again...I POST THE WORDS OF THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WHO STATED THAT IS BULLSHIT...I POSTED THE SPECS OF THE 707 V 767 THAT SHOWED YOU THAT STETMENT OF CONTRAST IS BULLSHIT.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#336. To: James Deffenbach (#334)
#337. To: James Deffenbach (#334)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#338. To: FormerLurker (#337)
Yep, yet people like war can't understand any of that...
Lord Acton
#339. To: FormerLurker (#335)
What, is he saying that the WTC was NOT designed to withstand the impact of a 707?
#340. To: war (#332)
Ther3e you go again...you posted that above and were shown to be incorrect:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#341. To: FormerLurker (#340)
Are you trying to say that the rising smoke is actual damage to the building?
#342. To: war (#339)
little was known about the effects of a fire from such an aircraft, and no designs were prepared for that circumstance. Indeed, at that time, no fireproofing systems were available to control the effects of such fires.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#343. To: war (#341)
Bullshit...the planes exploded inside the building...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#344. To: war (#341)
Maybe if you read what you stated and then carry that context over the the picture it might hit you.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#345. To: war (#341)
My IQ alone dropped 65 points
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#346. To: war (#332)
What happened to the core?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#347. To: war (#332)
The steel was not pulverized...they only things that were pulverized were oobjets that could be pulverized.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#348. To: war (#332)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#349. To: war (#316)
by Kevin Ryan
Site Manager
Environmental Health Laboratories
A Division of Underwriters Laboratories
Thursday, Nov 11, 2004 ...the company I work for certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings. In requesting information from both our CEO and Fire Protection business manager last year, I learned that they did not agree on the essential aspects of the story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements.
"We know that the steel components were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard require the samples to be exposed to temperatures around 2000F for several hours. And as we all agree, the steel applied met those specifications. Additionally, I think we can all agree that even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F (2)."
STACKING UP While site concrete was largely pulverized into fine dust, huge quantities of damaged structural steel lay in tangled heaps throughout the former 16-acre WTC site. "I saw I-beams stacked six stories high," says Allen Morse, chief debris expert for the Army Corps of Engineers, a technical advisor to the Federal Emergency Management Agency. He says steel could make up to as much as half of the site's estimated 1.2 million tons of wreckage. "You can't move machinery around unless you plan for it," adds Morse.
Twisted Steel
Picture (L): For the second chapter — On September 11th — the team sought items to represent the hellish forces unleashed that day. "We saw a lot of pieces like this," said Wagner. "Typically, when steel bends, it buckles and tears. The smooth bend on this piece shows the steel became malleable — a pretty good indication of how hot it was."
"This piece has a ribbon-like quality to it," noted Wagner. "It's like it just crumpled when it hit the ground." Engineers have noted that many of the Towers' girders were contorted into shapes unreplicable by any machine.Girders
Some 200,000 tons of structural steel encased and supported the Twin Towers. This piece was saved as a reminder of each building's distinctive skeleton.
link: http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2006/06/07/100405wtc.jpg
#350. To: FormerLurker (#346)
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com
#351. To: FormerLurker. war (#345)
My IQ alone dropped 65 points
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