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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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Views: 14579
Comments: 607
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#374. To: FormerLurker, War, Litus (#372)
As far as the FLIGHT MANIFESTS, well, go ahead and find them... None of the official hijackers of the Sep11th-attack appeared on the original manifest of the passenger list. Here is the official info about these "hijackers". Many of the real identities are still alive. The FBI ignored these facts during 2001-2002 and never updated their suspect list. Passenger List
Another particularly important part of this is to note that Towers one, two, and seven have all of the 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition, a building collapsing from fire and plane impact damage having one of the characteristics of controlled demolition is astronomically rare, the chances of this damage having all 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition and not being a controlled demolition is next to nil. These characteristics are. 1. Each collapse occurred at virtually free fall speed; 2. Each building collapsed straight down, for the most part onto its own footprint; 3. Virtually all the concrete was turned into very fine dust; 4. In the case of the Twin Towers, the dust was blown out horizontally for 200 feet or more; 5. The collapses were total, leaving no steel columns sticking up hundreds of feet into the air; 6. Videos of the collapses reveal "demolition waves", meaning "confluent rows of small explosions"; 7. Most of the steel beams and columns came down in sections that were no more than 30 feet long; 8. According to many witnesses, explosions occurred within the buildings; 9. Each collapse was associated with detectable seismic vibrations (suggestive of underground explosions); 10. Each collapse produced molten steel (which would be produced by explosives), resulting in "hot spots" that remained for months.? Source: Professor David Ray Griffin
Those links have all been scrubbed...........
Oh, one other bit of info war. You know that picture you misidentified as WTC7 where it was actually an image of WTC5, well that is captioned as follows in the following link... Figure 4-13 from the FEMA Report shows WTC5 burning, with labeled floors.
That was my typo and there is a link there, doof.
What you Fail lto consider that a) they were already weakened from the impact and explposionn and b) that the fires did get hot enough to tweak the metal... Thermal profile:
You're out of your fucking mind... Look at any video of the second plane hitting the building...the explosion does not initiate outside of the building...it bursts FROM the building... I knew Eurobroker guys in WTC 1 who were impacted by a fireball and explosion at the elevator crossover @ 44. Your problem is that I know people who were in that building...who felt the impact explosion IN THE BUILDING...they didn't "hear it" outside the building.
Both of those pics show massive damage to the exterior support columns...
Relatively speaking you shouldn't want it to be that low...
Until it was acted upon by a plane travellng at 400+ MPH and then further acted upon by the energy expended in supporting more weight than that for which it was designed...unless for some stupid reason you believe that the plane came to a dead stop just before hitting it...which, given your insnae blatherings here, it would NOT surprise me if you did believe that...
Do you understand the concept of "impressment"? Do you undertsand the concept of the relationship between velocity and weight?
He didn't design the building; he built it.
Fitterman is still undergoing reconstruction...the DB Building is being deconstructed. 1 Liberty was damaged massively and required a half year of reconstrcution. That said, none of those buildings burned for 7 hours...
When you use the word "toppling" you imply that it was already in motion and that should have been propelled away from the building. You need to grasp a basic concept of physics as to how gravity affects a body...once it's center is established...it falls straight down...the top of the tower was a body at rest and so while it was "tilted" it was so at rest...once the support beneath it gave way it was a simple exercise of falling...the only direction in which it should have continued was down...
The only force acting on it was gravity. Does gravity affect a body from the side?
Have you ever been in the Towers? If so then you know there is a natural sway to them...lateral forces were continually at work on them... Secondly, as has been pointed out to you numerous times, the external support mitigated the vertical load and since the external support was compromised the energy being put upon and expended by the core was substanially more than normal. Regardless, the majority of the exterior support columns were intact. Feel free to wax eloquently on the WTC designer's using redundant support columns on the exterior. Also, you want it both ways...you'll claim that it was controlled demolition that brought the towers down which is a process by which only some of the main supports are destroyed...but here you are claiming that because some of the support remained thatg it should not have collapsed. Can any of you Moonbats explain to me, that if the government did this, why did they allow 22K people to escape with their lives and why did they go to the trouble of haing planes flyu into the buildings? The WTC had been bombed before. Why not just bomb it again?
Well...I was accepting your use of the word topple which I then disputed above...the top does move angularly for the brief moment it took to establish a center of gravity...
Bad reporting. So what? I've posted how the architects and engineers describe it. Not a news reporter.
Nope. Wherein your post did you demand a pic of WTC 7?
No, the load put on the core would not have been significantly greater than normal. The vast majority of the exterior columns were undamaged so the change in load on the core would have been minimal.
God is always good!
Family has been here since the 1680's...I typoe fast and multi-task... Me: The individuals listed as the hijackers are not said to be using aliases war: If they weren't who they said they were, then what else could they have been using? Better?
Please list your engineering credentials that you could contradict the designers... Thanks...
Nope. The windows were broken by impact AND explosion. But your starement is moronic from several other angles as well not the least of which was that since the fire was already vented all it had to do was feed and accelerate......
I never doubted that they weren't. What they weren't designed for was an impact @ 400-500+ MPH, an internal explosion and fire.
I posted the one from the Boston Globe on 9/13, doof. That said, it's been said that the flight manifests have never been published showing Arab names. Is it your concession now that they were?
The "designers" did not say that the load on the core was significantly greater. And even if they did any model of the WTC with similar damage would prove that it wasn't. Credentials are only required for people that need to prove a basic understanding of something to someone else becasue they have no real experience to speak of. I need no such crutch.
God is always good!
Sorry...I probably screwed up the tag...
Why are you wasting your time here? We know you are a government stooge. You lack basic understanding of physics plus you are spamming this board. If I were the owner your ass would have been banned by now.
God is always good!
Better? Ok, now I can at least understand what you're trying to say. The thing is, there is no evidence that places those individuals onboard those doomed aircraft. They are NOT on the flight manifests from what I gather, and the flight manifests have not been made public, or if they were, they are no longer available. Being that there is a strong possibility that the planes were taken over by remote control (which is QUITE feasibile and possible), especially when you consider the rather precise manuevers performed to line the planes up with the towers, then those individuals could very well have been decoys made to APPEAR as if they had hijacked the planes. It worked out rather well, with the majority of the populace believing it, and those who haven't fallen for it are quickly dismissed as "conspiracy theorists".
The report states' Pure bullshit. It would have taken 9.2 seconds for a rock to fall to the ground from the top of the WTC, yet this person claims that it would have been possible for the tower to collapse FASTER than free fall speed. What did it have, a rocket engine on top of the tower pushing it down? Unbelievable, to say the least.
The planes flying into the buildings were needed for dramatic effect. It was a made for TV event. If they just blew the building up then they couldn't strip search pretty blonds at the airport and drive commercial airlines out of business. This operation was planned well in advanced and carefully researched to produce the most psychological bang for the buck.
God is always good!
The guy is copying and pasting things he does not understand thinking he is proving something. The only thing he is proving is his ignorance.
God is always good!
Have you ever seen THIS chart? Link it, as I haven't seen you post it.
I don't understand your logic here. You promote theories of conspiracies which you expect me to just accept these without question. Can you tell me how your expectations of me differ from those of what you claim I am? The fact is, I have weighed your arguments and I have weighed the arguments of others. Your arguments fail to persuade me that the counter argument is more believable. Part of your problem includes the fact that I was there that day. Another part of your problem is that I have spoken to people who were in BOTH towers. Another part of your problem is that I spoke to people who did not get out. I have also spoken to people who spoke to people who did not get out. Offices were damaged by the explosion throughout the building and not just at the point of impact. Your paradigm here assumes that I have done 0 research into what happened that day. The premise underlying that paradigm is 100% incorrect. Now, there are some elements that I can accept. I do believe that Boosh’s direct threat on the Taliban that Summer was, effectively, a "dare". I do believe that they had a good inkling that an attack was imminent but failed to act. I also believe that they used the attack as a pretext for eventually going after Iraq. Now, considering that latter statement for one moment, don't you believe that given how the post 9/11 events played out and in the context of a belief that the government ACTUALLY precipitated and executed this plot, that they would have put Iraqi's on those planes? That is the ONLY way that any of your blatherings would make a modicum of sense to me. You lack basic understanding of physics For example?
ROFLMAO...the simple fact that I am sourcing my information is problematic for you?
Source please...if only for context... Thanks...
Correction: Your arguments fail to persuade me that the counter argument is NOT more believable.
It already HAD a center of gravity until a portion of the structure below it gave way. Never mind trying to obfuscutate the matter, it simply fell in the direction of least resistance and that was into the corner that no longer had any support. Its momentum was already causing it to topple, and if the core HAD broken at that moment it probably WOULD have flipped over as it smashed into the solid edge of the structure below. Since it didn't, you'd have to assume the core was intact, although quite bent. So, the core should have remained where it was and been visible as the upper portion of the WTC slid down it. Of course it wasn't there, so what happened to it?
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestOh and BTW war, I also noticed you used screenshots from a flash presentation provided by the GOVERNMENT for its case against Zacarias Moussaoui. These are NOT flight managests, but simply a visual aid created by the government.
![[Sept11Wiki]](/img/moin-inter.gif){kind=small}
#375. To: war (#175)
#376. To: TwentyTwelve (#374)
#377. To: war (#175)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#378. To: FormerLurker (#342)
Wherever you obtained that quote apparently can't even spell the word CHIEF.
#379. To: FormerLurker (#342)
What you fail to consider is that the fires did not burn hot enough to weaken the structure.
#380. To: FormerLurker (#343)
Bullshit.
#381. To: FormerLurker (#344)
Post either of the two images and point out the actual damage to the exterior columns.
#382. To: FormerLurker (#345)
Wow, so your IQ is at around zero now, eh?
#383. To: FormerLurker (#346)
Inertia? It was at rest
#384. To: FormerLurker (#348)
Again, you fail to address the question as to why it only took several seconds to demolish 100 floors of undamaged steel and concrete.
#385. To: TwentyTwelve (#355)
This what Frank A. DeMartini, WTC construction and project manag
#386. To: TwentyTwelve (#356)
It is important to note that Building 7 was no closer to the towers than any of several other large buildings outside of the WTC complex.
#387. To: FormerLurker (#357)
The top of the tower had started to topple over, indicating one corner of the supporting structure below had failed. It should have continued in that direction,
#388. To: FormerLurker (#357)
The top of the tower had started to topple over, indicating one corner of the supporting structure below had failed. It should have continued in that direction, ABSENT ANY OTHER FORCE
#389. To: FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, litus, randge, scrapper2, James Deffenbach (#358)
There was not a hurricane going on that day, so resistance to horizonal force is not a factor.
#390. To: FormerLurker (#364)
BTW, you contradict yourself here. Did it topple or did it drop staight down?
#391. To: litus (#367)
So.......were they wrong then or wrong after 9/11...."what steel frames"?????
#392. To: FormerLurker (#368)
You're busted. I just noticed you posted an image of WTC5 trying to pass it off as an image of WTC7.
#393. To: war (#389)
Secondly, as has been pointed out to you numerous times, the external support mitigated the vertical load and since the external support was compromised the energy being put upon and expended by the core was substanially more than normal.
#394. To: FormerLurker (#369)
Huh? Are you even an American? You don't speak the language very well...
#395. To: RickyJ (#393)
No, the load put on the core would not have been significantly greater than normal.
#396. To: TwentyTwelve (#370)
In the 9/11 fires the windows were not broken by the heat (only by the aircraft impact) indicating a temperature below 700°C.
#397. To: TwentyTwelve (#370)
So now you know that the WTC towers were well designed and quite capable of surviving a serious fire
#398. To: FormerLurker (#372)
As far as the FLIGHT MANIFESTS, well, go ahead and find them
#399. To: war (#395)
Please list your engineering credentials that you could contradict the designers...
#400. To: FormerLurker (#373)
repost the chart.
#401. To: FormerLurker (#373)
It must not have been very large or colorful since I can't find it anywhere on this thread
#402. To: war (#400)
(Edited)
#403. To: war (#394)
If they weren't who they said they were, then what else could they have been using?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#404. To: war (#401)
(Edited)
the published values (I have seen) all fall in the range 8 – 18 seconds. In addition, Newtonian mechanics dictates a minimum value for the collapse time, tc, which is calculated, (allowing for the thickness of each floor), as followsf82;: tc = (2h/g) = h54;{2(416 f85;10)/9.81} = 9.1 seconds
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#405. To: war (#389)
Can any of you Moonbats explain to me, that if the government did this, why did they allow 22K people to escape with their lives and why did they go to the trouble of haing planes flyu into the buildings? The WTC had been bombed before. Why not just bomb it again?
#406. To: FormerLurker (#404)
(Edited)
#407. To: war (#400)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#408. To: war (#398)
I posted the one from the Boston Globe on 9/13, doof.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#409. To: RickyJ (#402)
Why are you wasting your time here? We know you are a government stooge.
#410. To: RickyJ (#406)
The guy is copying and pasting things he does not understand thinking he is proving something.
#411. To: FormerLurker (#407)
Have you ever seen THIS chart?
#412. To: FormerLurker (#408)
Link it, as I haven't seen you post it.
#413. To: RickyJ (#402)
Your arguments fail to persuade me that the counter argument is more believable.
#414. To: war (#390)
the top does move angularly for the brief moment it took to establish a center of gravity...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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