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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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Keywords: None
Views: 14974
Comments: 607
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#407. To: war (#400)
Have you ever seen THIS chart? Link it, as I haven't seen you post it.
I don't understand your logic here. You promote theories of conspiracies which you expect me to just accept these without question. Can you tell me how your expectations of me differ from those of what you claim I am? The fact is, I have weighed your arguments and I have weighed the arguments of others. Your arguments fail to persuade me that the counter argument is more believable. Part of your problem includes the fact that I was there that day. Another part of your problem is that I have spoken to people who were in BOTH towers. Another part of your problem is that I spoke to people who did not get out. I have also spoken to people who spoke to people who did not get out. Offices were damaged by the explosion throughout the building and not just at the point of impact. Your paradigm here assumes that I have done 0 research into what happened that day. The premise underlying that paradigm is 100% incorrect. Now, there are some elements that I can accept. I do believe that Boosh’s direct threat on the Taliban that Summer was, effectively, a "dare". I do believe that they had a good inkling that an attack was imminent but failed to act. I also believe that they used the attack as a pretext for eventually going after Iraq. Now, considering that latter statement for one moment, don't you believe that given how the post 9/11 events played out and in the context of a belief that the government ACTUALLY precipitated and executed this plot, that they would have put Iraqi's on those planes? That is the ONLY way that any of your blatherings would make a modicum of sense to me. You lack basic understanding of physics For example?
ROFLMAO...the simple fact that I am sourcing my information is problematic for you?
Source please...if only for context... Thanks...
Correction: Your arguments fail to persuade me that the counter argument is NOT more believable.
It already HAD a center of gravity until a portion of the structure below it gave way. Never mind trying to obfuscutate the matter, it simply fell in the direction of least resistance and that was into the corner that no longer had any support. Its momentum was already causing it to topple, and if the core HAD broken at that moment it probably WOULD have flipped over as it smashed into the solid edge of the structure below. Since it didn't, you'd have to assume the core was intact, although quite bent. So, the core should have remained where it was and been visible as the upper portion of the WTC slid down it. Of course it wasn't there, so what happened to it?
Actually when it was attached ot the building it did not as the structure had a center of gravity. when that support broke the top established its own. That's basic geometry bro...
That's not a flight manifest, that's a graphical image designed according to GOVERNMENT data. Now, show me the official airline flight manifest.
Bro, did you try to balance that can on your finger as I suggested? You can squawk all you want about centers of gravity, yet that can will fall off your finger each time, and it WILL tumble. You have no clue where the center of gravity was or wasn't in the upper portion of the WTC, as NOBODY could know since there is no way to know what part of the lower structure gave way and how long it supported the weight of the falling structure above. However, once a solid section of structure was impacted, the upper structure should have acted as your finger trying to balance a can, where it would have acted as a fulcrum on which it would have pivoted downwards to where it would have tumbled over.
I am not promoting anything. I am just not a brain dead moron. The towers being blown up is not something rational people debate about, it is too damn obvious they were blown up to debate it. If you really can't see something so obvious and/or lack basic understanding of physics which is required to know the buildings were without a doubt NOT taken down by just the planes impact, the mid-air explosion, and the fires, then I feel sorry for you. I have sympathy for your condition if you are indeed not a government stooge.
God is always good!
Bullshit. Put the 9/11 stuff aside and it boils down to the fact that you have a point of view that differs from mine and it grates on you to the point of wanting to see me banned. I don't accept what you believe to be orthodoxy and so I should be made gone. You believe that because someone doesn't **think** as you do then they must be some kind of shill or instrument of misinormation. Do you know what that says about you? The towers being blown up is not something rational people debate about, I agree. If you really can't see something so obvious and/or lack basic understanding of physics which is required to know the buildings were without a doubt NOT taken down by just the planes impact, the mid-air explosion, and the fires, then I feel sorry for you. Mid air explosion? The explosion was inside the building. As for my understanding of physics...you've yet to demonstrate that I have none.
Are you trying to tell me that there was more than one center of gravity on one structure? CoG is a fairly easy calculation but putting that aside, we know that basic design principles make it impossible to put the CoG outside of a building's footprint and at multiple points. So, you can make the arguemnt that the plane's impact SHIFTED the CoG but you cannot then argue agasint the physics that gravity affects CoG by anything othe rthan straight down. "It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down."
Keep telling yourself that. What is your agenda? Tell us.
I'm not the one telling me that. The folks who designed it are. What is your agenda? Tell us. Your paranoia.
If the Towers were meant to survive an explosion...why is it that you promote the idea that it was an explosion that brought them down?
Yes, I have. I've also been on the Empire State Building, built in 1931. One could easily suppose without a degree in engineering, that, given the materials and abilities back in the late 1920's as compared to those of the early 1970's, were not only quite different, but there were conceivably lower standards to be met. Although the wind which blows against that tower is also quite severe and it has withstood the impact of a B-25 bomber...which also had fuel, commentary is nil regarding its current structural soundness. This tells me that it remains a safe building. It is apparent that, given the limitations of the 1920's, it was designed quite well. With a foggy day and the B-25 bomber in mind, the WTC was designed. I believe that, for a building, it is irrelevant whether fog is present or absent when it is directly hit by a plane. And it's a certainty that if a plane is in the air, it has fuel. You keep posting about the architects and designers anticipating flight impact and fog. Terrific! But do you mean to state also that, though these highly educated and intelligent architects and designers, who were anticipating and designing for the possibility of a jet aircraft collision with a tower near three of the busiest airports in the world (JFK, Newark, and La Guardia), who anticipated and designed for the possibility of the impact of SEVERAL 707's due to fog.........but were unable to conceive that the plane(s) would have fuel, possibly having just taken off from JFK, Newark, and/or La Guardia? Come on....let's give some credit to the designers instead of .gov's fairy tales!
It's quite relevant to the speed...a plane looking to land in the fog is not pushing the outer envelope. In all the likely variations of an accidental impact with the WTC, the Boeing 707 would be traveling faster. You're out of your mind...planes do not land in excess of 350-400 knots... Since the Boeing 707 had a higher thrust to weight ratio, it would be traveling faster on take-off and on landing. The approach speed for a 707 is 115-120 knots...take off speed is 116 knots...
OK, you understand two masses are attracted by the force of gravity from each mass, right? But what you fail to understand is that masses cannot go through other masses at the acceleration of gravity. There is a collision involved which results in the opposite force of gravity. This results in a significant slowing of the attracting masses. Even a reversal of direction of the attracting masses is possible if the collision is powerful enough. A real pancaking of the WTC towers could not occur in 15 seconds due to the collisions at each floor. Also the collisions of the floors alone would not make the core columns collapse. They were holding the floors up, so without their weight they would have even been stronger rather than weaker to continue standing.
God is always good!
re: Win Willy Someone offered the owner $3 million for him after that race and the owner rejected it when common sense tells one to go for the bucks. It was an impressive victory. I didn't see it coming over one of the derby favorites, Old Fashioned. But when I saw the name and the winning price, $115.00, I thought that I wish I gave you that tip.
Do you think the WTC Towers were immune to controlled demolition?
Did you see what I posted above? The WTC was not a solid object falling though another solid object. Also, what you fail to take into account is that resistance may SLOW the collapse but it is not going to make it DECREASE in speed as it is collapsing unless the mass of the resistance somehow becomes greater than the force of the collapse. So, gravity is still going to increase the speed of the collapse UNLESS the resistance is GREATER than the velocity of the falling body. Do you agree that as the Tower collapses the velocity of the falling body increased? They were holding the floors up Uh no...trusses [as opposed to I-beams, as it would be in a steel framed building], which were attached to the core and the outer support, were holding the floors up. ON top of the trusses was concrete floor.
Of course not. But you want me believe that they were immune to a catastrophic impact and explosion and then fires. Again, my question is why vbother with the impact? Blow up the buildings with a CD and blame Iraq. If you beleive that the American people are so gullible then why would you believe that they couldn't fall for that as well?
You know my iitials, right? My biggest Derby win was betting on them....
Of course not. But you want me believe that they were immune to a catastrophic impact and explosion and then fires. Again, my question is why vbother with the impact? Blow up the buildings with a CD and blame Iraq. If you beleive that the American people are so gullible then why would you believe that they couldn't fall for that as well? At least the sheeple believe your b.s.
God forbid that you actually answer the question.
The New World Order is on the move. I don't have time to debate with the New World Orders shills.
They couldn't have accounted for the Magickal Jet Fuel™ because no one knew anything about that when they designed and built the towers. >(;^{]
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Riiight...you just have time to spam a thread with "Once Upon A Time..." and then ignore the reality that comes back at you... But, God forbid that you actually answer a question.
Well one thing that they agreed upon is that a Douchenbag is going to believe what a Douchenbag is going to believe...
LOLOL! Yeah...I keep forgetting that one. : )
Considering how many times that he's reminded you, I'd get that checked...
Well, that is understandable since they only ever made one batch of it and it was all used up on 9/11. I hope they lost the formula for it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I think I have a better recommendation: Re-examine your blind trust in a .gov that has shown itself to be duplicitous and unconcerned about the people of this country.
: )
Riiight...you just have time to spam a thread with "Once Upon A Time..." and then ignore the reality that comes back at you... You are the one promoting the "Once Upon A Time..." government fairy tale.
This is where you lose any sense of the rational. I have taken each and every bit of your theories and conclusions and researched them. It isn't as if this is the first time I've seen this stuff. I have close to 100 bookmarks on my work computr alone and in those bookmarks are links to pages that could be bookmarked. You folks have a lot of problems, not the least of which are pathological, but even putting them aside, your conclisions are not supported by facts. All of you have posted quesitons to me which I have answered and sourced. Not one of you have responded to any of the questions that I have posed to you. How could you be so certain of your conclusions when you are so unopen to questions about them? You're as bad as the God freaks demanding that I have FAITH in that which I cannot see. But worse...I know that no man can show me God while YOU most certainly CAN show why you believe as you do. The problem is you don't which leads me to one conclusion and it's that you cannot...there is not one quesiton that you raise about that day that either cannot be answered or doesn't have a faulty premise at its root. Some of you have posted some of the most absurd claims, e.g., the plane did not explode INSIDE the WTC...the outside was relatively undamaged...no manifest with Arab names was ever published [when one was] and the coup de gras, the WTC Towers were built to withsatnd an explosion but it was an explosion that brought them down... Why not trying to answer the easiest question of all. Why use the planes? Why only kill 3K? Why use Afghanistan as a means of getting Itaq when Iraq was already a convenient target?
Psychological impact. Emotional impact. Terror. American outrage.
A sense of the rational is lost whenever an argument is made that anything issuing from an illegitimate government is legitimate. The 9/11 narrative as told by FedGovCorpInc and its various media is stinkier than week old pork left in the sun. Still waiting on your explanation for Satam Al Suqami's passport.
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"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#408. To: war (#398)
I posted the one from the Boston Globe on 9/13, doof.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#409. To: RickyJ (#402)
Why are you wasting your time here? We know you are a government stooge.
#410. To: RickyJ (#406)
The guy is copying and pasting things he does not understand thinking he is proving something.
#411. To: FormerLurker (#407)
Have you ever seen THIS chart?
#412. To: FormerLurker (#408)
Link it, as I haven't seen you post it.
#413. To: RickyJ (#402)
Your arguments fail to persuade me that the counter argument is more believable.
#414. To: war (#390)
the top does move angularly for the brief moment it took to establish a center of gravity...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#415. To: FormerLurker (#414)
It already HAD a center of gravity
#416. To: war (#412)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#417. To: war (#415)
That's basic geometry bro...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#418. To: war (#409)
#419. To: RickyJ (#418)
I am not promoting anything.
#420. To: FormerLurker (#417)
You have no clue where the center of gravity was or wasn't in the upper portion of the WTC
#421. To: war (#397)
What they weren't designed for was an impact @ 400-500+ MPH, an internal explosion and fire.
#422. To: TwentyTwelve (#421)
Keep telling yourself that.
#423. To: TwentyTwelve (#421)
Keep telling yourself that.
#424. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, randge, scrapper2, James Deffenbach (#389)
Have you ever been in the Towers? If so then you know there is a natural sway to them...lateral forces were continually at work on them...
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.
The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.
The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.
The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.
The cruise speed of a Boeing 707 is 607 mph = 890 ft/s,
The cruise speed of a Boeing 767 is 530 mph = 777 ft/s.
The Boeing 707 and 767 are very similar aircraft, with the main differences
being that the 767 is slightly heavier and the 707 is faster.
Since the Boeing 707 had a higher thrust to weight ratio, it would be traveling
faster on take-off and on landing.
The thrust to weight ratio for a Boeing 707 is 4 x 18,000/336,000 = 0.214286.
The thrust to weight ratio for a Boeing 767 is 2 x 31,500/395,000 = 0.159494.
In all the likely variations of an accidental impact with the WTC, the Boeing
707 would be traveling faster. In terms of impact damage, this higher speed
would more than compensate for the slightly lower weight of the Boeing 707.
* source
#425. To: litus (#424)
With a foggy day and the B-25 bomber in mind, the WTC was designed. I believe that, for a building, it is irrelevant whether fog is present
#426. To: war (#422)
(Edited)
#427. To: war (#425)
#428. To: war (#423)
If the Towers were meant to survive an explosion...why is it that you promote the idea that it was an explosion that brought them down?
#429. To: RickyJ (#426)
But what you fail to understand is that masses cannot go through other masses at the acceleration of gravity
#430. To: TwentyTwelve (#428)
Do you think the WTC Towers were immune to controlled demolition?
#431. To: Fred Mertz (#427)
I thought that I wish I gave you that tip.
#432. To: war (#430)
Do you think the WTC Towers were immune to controlled demolition?
#433. To: TwentyTwelve (#432)
#434. To: war (#433)
God forbid that you actually answer the question.
#435. To: litus (#424)
(Edited)
But do you mean to state also that, though these highly educated and intelligent architects and designers, who were anticipating and designing for the possibility of a jet aircraft collision with a tower near three of the busiest airports in the world (JFK, Newark, and La Guardia), who anticipated and designed for the possibility of the impact of SEVERAL 707's due to fog.........but were unable to conceive that the plane(s) would have fuel, possibly having just taken off from JFK, Newark, and/or La Guardia? Come on....let's give some credit to the designers instead of .gov's fairy tales!
Lord Acton
#436. To: TwentyTwelve (#434)
I don't have time to debate with the New World Orders shills.
#437. To: James Deffenbach (#435)
#438. To: James Deffenbach (#435)
They couldn't have accounted for the Magickal Jet Fuel™ because no one knew anything about that when they designed and built the towers. >(;^{]
#439. To: litus (#438)
Yeah...I keep forgetting that one. : )
#440. To: litus (#438)
LOLOL! Yeah...I keep forgetting that one. : )
Lord Acton
#441. To: war (#439)
#442. To: James Deffenbach (#440)
#443. To: war (#436)
I don't have time to debate with the New World Orders shills.
#444. To: litus, TwentyTwelve, RickyJ, Former Lurker (#441)
Re-examine your blind trust in a .gov that has shown itself to be duplicitous and unconcerned about the people of this country.
#445. To: war, litus, RickyJ, Former Lurker, Rotara, Original_Intent, wudidiz (#444)
Why use the planes?
#446. To: war (#444)
This is where you lose any sense of the rational.
#447. To: bluegrass (#446)
bump
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
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