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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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Views: 14439
Comments: 607
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#454. To: RickyJ (#426)
I've noticed war likes to evade those sorts of facts.
"You're either with US or you're with the illegal shadow government !"
All of you have posted quesitons to me which I have answered and sourced. Not one of you have responded to any of the questions that I have posed to you. ... Nonsense. You have linked to derivative apologias - such as the drawings you tried to misrepresent as the passenger manifests. No, the Passenger Manifests are the Passenger Manifests as released by the Airlines in the 24 hours following the Op. None of those ORIGINAL Passenger Manifests show any Arabic names. When presented with a datum you cannot refute you go off on another diversionary tangent and then cite things not said by anyone on this thread as proof that people seeking the truth are are all nuts for doing so. Your tactic is dishonest and is logically false. Here again you concoct an irrational and logically invalid hodgepodge and then attribute it to ALL when ALL have not made ALL of the claims you falsely attempt to attribute to them. Again you are using a dishonest disinformation tactic to smear not refute: Some has a name. SOME is NOT ALL. The WTC Towers were built to withstand an aircraft impact and yet you assert that two aircraft impacts brought down 3 buildings. Further your assertion is again false as you assert the buildings were built to withstand an explosion but all things engineering have a scale and a tolerance. When you exceed the structures tolerance you exceed its capacity to remain standing. No, what you have done is presented argument that really says nothing while, falsely, asserting and acting as though it proves something.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
"You're either with US or you're with the illegal shadow government !" Exactly. At this point I think we can gauge "war's" true colors, and they ain't Red, White, and Blue. More like just plain Red.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Had you bothered to read any of the information that I posted both the time and the reasons were posted and they are far more plausible than believing that seemingly silent charges were placed along the entirity of the 1400+ feet of the core and "bathtub" and then a plane was rammed into it to distract. So only in your mind have I evaded those...but it does underscore what I have been saying all along...you folks don't want me toanswer your questoins.
Once again evasion, dissembling, and distortion. Charges would not need to be put along the entire core, which previously you tried to deny existed as the primary structural support of the towers, but only at enough points to collapse the structure under the gravity load. As well you ignore and sidestep the eyewitness testimony of people in the buildings, and first responders, who reported explosions going off. To collapse the structure you need only sever the primary support members, the core, at key points. No, all you are really trying to do is throw up confusion to divert from the key points - all of which you are busy evading.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Funny that you consider the structural engineer an apologist. Funny that you can "impeach" all of my sources as apologias when you can't link any of them directly to the government report. Funny that you can avoid every quesiton that has been posed by me about your beliefs by waving your magic Moonbat Wand and proclaim them moot. The WTC Towers were built to withstand an aircraft impact and yet you assert that two aircraft impacts brought down 3 buildings. That is NOT what I assert and I have corrected this several times over. It was the combination of the damage of the planes' impact, the damage from the planes' exploding and the resultant fires that brought the towers down. Further your assertion is again false as you assert the buildings were built to withstand an explosion but all things engineering have a scale and a tolerance. When you exceed the structures tolerance you exceed its capacity to remain standing. No, what you have done is presented argument that really says nothing while, falsely, asserting and acting as though it proves something. I am sure that there is a cogent thought in there somewhere yearning to be set free...
Riiight...as if bringing down the Towers on 25K unsuspecting people wouldn't have a psychological impact. You folks skipped absurd and went right to goofy...
Still silent re: Satam Al Suqami's passport?
Besides the fact that it was found? Did he not have it on him when he boarded the aiurcraft? Was it in his luggage? Where was it?
Sorry...that you have to styand in line...I don't have a VIP section...
You're the 9/11 expert. You tell me. Odd how a 'hijackers' passport could survive all of the explosions and fires.
Any odder than seat belts or seat cushions?
That's an outirght lie and I challenge you to link to that post.
As I said, you tell me. You're the 9/11 expert.
<..> Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
<..> Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
<..> Disproves government collapse theory
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
No one spends this much time posting on a topic unless they really believe it or are paid to do so. I do not believe war really believes the government theory, so I would highly suspect we have a paid government spammer among us. Intelligence agencies are always looking to befriend people already established in a group, such as war is on liberty post and here, and then entice them to spy for them. They tried to get some Ron Paul supporters at the Rally for the Republic to do it too, they told them where to go. :)
God is always good!
How are you this paranoid and not dead by your own hand?
Yip...Yip...Yip...
I was at the Rally for the Republic. Believe me, I know government agencies tried to, and probably did penetrate several Ron Paul support groups. One guy was so upset they asked him to do it he was a basket case thinking what might happen to him if told them no. Still he told them no.
God is always good!
So it would appear. war is too intelligent to believe the government theory given all the contrary evidence. So far I've just been watching and mostly biding my time watching the tactics he employs and how he employs them. I don't have as much time to post as I used to so I have to be a bit more selective. You can find the tactics he employs all listed here: I've bolded his favorites. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation 1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil ""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Agreed.
You are mistaken. Your are absolutely able to have as much faith in God as you do what you believe and hold on to be true about .gov having absolutely not participated or enable, either through commission or omission, in the events leading up to, occurring, and subsequent to, 9/11. For nearly each and every one of your defenses, there are things that don't add up. There are coincidences too great in number to be dismissed. To believe the government story, without question, requires the type of suspension of disbelief that is required when reading fiction. Furthermore, beyond the suspension of disbelief with which you cling, you assign a characterization to these men in office, elected or otherwise, that is akin to that which a parishoner would hold for their minister, yet these men are found, time and again, to be nothing but power hungry greedy sob's, who have evidenced a callous disregard to the people of this country and the rule of law. They are empty shirts, liars, deceivers, swindlers, and con man, who seek nothing other than enriching themselves off the taxpayers backs, though they were elected to office to serve the people. It is these kinds of people whom you trust and believe when they issue statements, have secret meetings, hold shoddy hearings, which are nothing but dog and pony shows, over and over again. That takes some faith on your part!
I've looked at these issues with total disgust. You're seeing a "re-creation" which can be anything that the program operator wants it to be. The major question being, "Okay, where's the original computer data, from which these images were created???" I've never discovered anything valid which denies that the Tower hits were anything but as valid as what we saw on the news of 9-11. The give-away of the truth of the Twin Towers is the difficulty of the last-second maneuvering of both aircraft; as those buildings become a really difficult target to hit, at those kinds of flying speeds. That also tells a professional pilot that there were no idiots at the controls of those aircraft - and that the strikes were hand-flown; at least in the last seconds. The 'mystery' being in the identity/nationality of the actual pros who did that flying. Who else has a cause worth dying for (It wasn't Islam!)
So you don't think it was remote controlled? With a camera mounted in the plane I don't see why a pilot on the ground couldn't have done it.
God is always good!
I've hand-flown that generation of aircraft into 'tight' airports such as Burbank & Orange County. With landing gear down, & full flaps at 150 mph, it's tough enough to hit the landing zone; at that speed. Take the speed up to 300 knots & no remote control pilot could do it. Add that no such camera would go undetected by maintenance or the pilots. Add that the pilots would have to be done-in, to preclude their override of any "remote control." The "remote control" debate fails the smell-test, from the very beginning.
What if it was more like a guided missile system? Computers and lasers and all that? It seems hard to believe that it couldn't be done.
There is no doubt that the technology has been available since the 60s. BUT, you can't get by the issue of maintenance (observing the alteration of the electronics), the pilots & cabin crew. There's the rub. Trust me, I've looked at that angle very closely. It's well worth considering, but too quickly fails the probability test. There are plenty of "possibilities," but most are quick to be excluded, by the industry professionals - if they have the guts to speak out; and that's a really small number.
Thank you. Then I think that somehow the maintenance would be overlooked. Maybe they switched the planes? Maybe the pilots were coerced? Done in? Etc... I do trust you. I'm just trying to understand how it was done. I guess because I don't believe Arab hijackers were on board.
I know you are new to posting here, we went though this some time ago with BAC. If you do a search, you can find huge threads with all the real info needed. Sky, myself and numerous others posted tons and tons of info destroying the FEDS theory on 911. Everything about WTC 1-2 collapse according to the official NIST Report rests on one unproven scenario only, that ALL the SFRM/fireproofing was blown or removed from the impact floors by the aircraft. Not some of it, but all. This figure is around 80,000 sq feet. The whole NIST Report is ridiculous.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Logic and facts are not conspiracist nutters' strengths.
Yet, oddly, you have been unable to point these out and offer any kind of TANGBIBLE evidence to the contrary...in other words, you're relying on your SAY SO.
Yet, oddly, you have been unable to establish any tangible evidence that I have engaged in the above and are relying simply on your say so. And, in point of fact, YOU, OI, have outright lied about my positions.
Still waiting for that link, btw...
Not some of it, but all. This figure is around 80,000 sq feet. The whole NIST Report is ridiculous. That's was another point upon which their story hinges. Yet another preposterous requirement. "ALL" the fireproofing.... The absurdities of their story.........it takes more faith, imo, to believe them than it does to believe that God exists and fashioned all creation, in whatever "way" He chose to do it.... *shaking head* Thanks for the information about other threads...I'll look them up.
Nope; I'm relying upon those who don't have a vested interest in covering up for .gov fiction...and have come to contrary conclusions, based upon the same "evidence".......which YOU disbelieve and which YOU dismiss.
parts one two and three disprove the government theory with high school physics and real numbers Even in a best case scenario with all condiditons favorable to the government theory (none of which were present), it would have taken at least 44 seconds to collapse, if it were possible. The laws of probability to do not support this happening to three buildings in precisely the same manner. In fact, it is a statistical impossibility, as was not one, but four ex-military airline crews allowing themselves to be overcome without even squawking the hijack transponder code.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
Acting as "too bad" for his calculations is the simple fact that not all of the floors below the top block are intact so his calcluations of the initial accleleration and resitance is flawed.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestA real pancaking of the WTC towers could not occur in 15 seconds due to the collisions at each floor. Also the collisions of the floors alone would not make the core columns collapse. They were holding the floors up, so without their weight they would have even been stronger rather than weaker to continue standing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#455. To: Original_Intent (#451)
ehehe
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#456. To: war, litus, TwentyTwelve, RickyJ, Former Lurker, bluegrass (#444)
This is where you lose any sense of the rational. I have taken each and every bit of your theories and conclusions and researched them. It isn't as if this is the first time I've seen this stuff. I have close to 100 bookmarks on my work computr alone and in those bookmarks are links to pages that could be bookmarked. You folks have a lot of problems, not the least of which are pathological, but even putting them aside, your conclisions are not supported by facts.
Some of you have posted some of the most absurd claims, e.g., the plane did not explode INSIDE the WTC...the outside was relatively undamaged...no manifest with Arab names was ever published [when one was] and the coup de gras, the WTC Towers were built to withsatnd an explosion but it was an explosion that brought them down...
#457. To: Rotara, war (#455)
ehehe
#458. To: FormerLurker (#454)
I've noticed war likes to evade those sorts of facts.
#459. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, tom007, litus, bluegrass, all (#458)
#460. To: Original_Intent (#456)
Nonsense. You have linked to derivative apologias
#461. To: TwentyTwelve (#445)
Psychological impact.
#462. To: war (#460)
#463. To: bluegrass (#446)
Still waiting on your explanation for Satam Al Suqami's passport.
#464. To: bluegrass (#462)
Still silent re: Satam Al Suqami's passport?
#465. To: war (#463)
#466. To: bluegrass (#465)
Odd how a 'hijackers' passport could survive all of the explosions and fires.
#467. To: Original_Intent (#459)
which previously you tried to deny existed as the primary structural support of the towers
#468. To: war (#466)
#469. To: bluegrass, all (#468)
(Part1) 911 Simple Physics Structural Failure Vs Demolition
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#470. To: bluegrass, all (#468)
Part2) 911 Simple Physics Structural Failure Vs Demolition
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#471. To: bluegrass, all (#468)
(Part3) 911 Simple Physics Structural Failure Vs Demolition
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#472. To: Original_Intent (#456)
(Edited)
#473. To: RickyJ (#472)
bump
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#474. To: RickyJ (#472)
#475. To: Rotara (#473)
#476. To: war (#474)
(Edited)
How are you this paranoid and not dead by your own hand?
#477. To: RickyJ, war (#472)
No one spends this much time posting on a topic unless they really believe it or are paid to do so. I do not believe war really believes the government theory, so I would highly suspect we have a paid government spammer among us.
Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
2. Become incredulous and indignant
3. Create rumor mongers
4. Use a straw man
5. Sidetrack opponents w name calling, ridicule
6. Hit and Run
7. Question motives
8. Invoke authority
9. Play Dumb
10. Associate opponent charges with old news
11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions
12. Enigmas have no solution
13. Alice in Wonderland Logic
14. Demand complete solutions
15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions
16. Vanish evidence and witnesses
17. Change the subject
18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad
19. Ignore facts, demand impossible proofs
20. False evidence
21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor
22. Manufacture a new truth
23. Create bigger distractions
24. Silence critics
25. Vanish
#478. To: Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve war, RickyJ, Former Lurker, Rotara, wudidiz (#451)
The planes acted to draw people's attention away from the other things going on - such as demolition charges going off. It also gave them a ready made cover story, however implausible, as to why the buildings collapsed. Then by sticking to the big lie enough of the sucker class would buy it - and some still do.
#479. To: war (#444)
I know that no man can show me God while YOU most certainly CAN show why you believe as you do. The problem is you don't which leads me to one conclusion and it's that you cannot...there is not one quesiton that you raise about that day that either cannot be answered or doesn't have a faulty premise at its root.
#480. To: Artisan, Christine, Jethro Tull, Itistoolate, Diana, All (#0)
any debunkers?
#481. To: SKYDRIFTER (#480)
#482. To: RickyJ, Coral Snake, Christine, Jethro Tull, Itistoolate, Diana, All (#481)
With a camera mounted in the plane I don't see why a pilot on the ground couldn't have done it.
#483. To: SKYDRIFTER (#482)
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain
#484. To: wudidiz, Christine, Jethro Tull, All (#483)
What if it was more like a guided missile system? Computers and lasers and all that? It seems hard to believe that it couldn't be done.
#485. To: SKYDRIFTER (#484)
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain
#486. To: litus (#478)
#487. To: SKYDRIFTER (#482)
The "remote control" debate fails the smell-test, from the very beginning.
No place is better than Turtle Island.
#488. To: litus (#479)
For nearly each and every one of your defenses, there are things that don't add up. There are coincidences too great in number to be dismissed.
#489. To: Original_Intent (#477)
#490. To: Original_Intent (#477)
#491. To: Kamala (#486)
Everything about WTC 1-2 collapse according to the official NIST Report rests on one unproven scenario only, that ALL the SFRM/fireproofing was blown or removed from the impact floors by the aircraft.
#492. To: war (#488)
you're relying on your SAY SO.
#493. To: CHRISTINE (#469)
(Edited)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#494. To: IndieTX (#470)
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