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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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#502. To: war (#501)
(Edited)
You knew no such thing. You only know what you saw, you have no way of knowing what plane that really was despite markings on it. It would be very easy to put a United logo on a military plane.
God is always good!
No, I have not. I have stated nothing of the kind. I go along with the real possibility that CHARGES were set, however, with the intent to bring the towers down........not that it, alone, brought it down. I believe other factors were likely present that enabled that. Given how the Towers collapsed, at the least YOU have to be able to show exactly WHERE those charges were set. Not to mention WHEN they were set and not to mention who, what, and from where those charges were activated. Prior to a prosecutor presenting evidence before a court of law, they first begin by analyzing and reviewing facts, data, and the evidence before them which leads them to certain conclusions. The types of evidence they have is either direct and/or circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence is direct evidence of a fact from which a person may reasonably infer the existence or non- existence of another fact. A person's guilt of a charged crime may be proven by circumstantial evidence, if that evidence, while not directly establishing guilt, gives rise to an inference of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The law draws no distinction between circumstantial evidence and direct evidence in terms of weight or importance. Either type of evidence may be enough to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, depending on the facts of the case as the jury finds them to be. I firmly believe in allowing others' good work and statements speak for myself, rather than reinventing the wheel. Therefore, the following, in part, adequately addresses and sums up only part of the problems with .gov's "investigations" and conclusions on this matter: 7. The FEMA investigation of the building collapses drew no meaningful conclusions. The subsequent investigation by NIST began with an open call for video and photographic evidence, because the relevant physical evidence (e.g., steel beams from the collapse zones) had already been scrapped. 8. Extensive and crucial sections of the Kean Commission's findings and consequent conclusions are based on uncorroborated interrogation reports channeled from captive government suspects. Examples include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalshibh, and Abu Zubaydah, who were never made available for questioning by the commissioners, staff, or any Kean Commission representative. a. Citizens lack subpoena enforcement power. b. The Administration generally is not honoring Freedom of Information Act requests. For example, the Justice Department chose to go to court rather than honor Sibel Edmonds' lawful, successful FOIA request. c. The Justice Department and FBI contend that key evidence sought by plaintiffs is either covered by the National Security Act and constitutes a related body of state secrets or must remain confidential due to ongoing cases and investigations.22 In the case of Sibel Edmonds, they have engaged in highly unusual after-the-fact classification of public testimony. d. Critical evidence has been destroyed.23 Recordings of Federal Aviation Administration ("FAA") controllers' accounts of September 11 events taped immediately after the attacks were later meticulously cut to shreds and thrown away, despite orders to save them for investigative reference (New York Times, 5/6/04). CIA and Congressional staff complained that the National Security Agency was needlessly destroying evidence related to US companies and citizens that could "perhaps redirect" the investigation (Boston Globe, 10/27/01). The editor of the nation's oldest firefighting magazine, Bill Manning, objected to the accelerated scrapping of World Trade Center rubble before investigators could determine the actual mechanics of the building collapse (Fire Engineering, 1/02) and in an angry editorial, called the government's investigation "a half-baked farce." At the end of October, 2004, a firefighter with the New York Fire Department as well as a Ground Zero recovery worker came forward to claim that the three of the four "black boxes" from the aircraft at Ground Zero were found during the clean-up work (Philadelphia Daily News, 10/28/04), contrary to the government's longstanding assertion that no trace of these devices was ever discovered, which assertion was reiterated in The 9/11 Commission Report (Ch. 1, fn. 76, p. 468). A full investigation would pursue this claim and locate this vital evidence of the attacks, if it still exists. e. Many of the aforementioned acts, coupled with the rapid confiscation and top-secret classification of other important evidence, suggest at best a blatant contempt for the normal prerequisites to a truthful and confidence-inspiring inquiry and at worst obstruction of justice. Such behavior inevitably undermines trust in government in related matters, such as the veracity of uncorroborated "confessions" from alleged 9/11 conspirators held at undisclosed locations for well over a year in some cases without formal charges being brought against them for the 9/11 murders. [i.e., Ramzi Binalshibh, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah.] f. Whistleblowers and elected officials who have called attention to these matters have been ignored, ridiculed, fired, threatened, subjected to gag orders, and harassed.24 We draw your attention in particular to the cases of Sibel Edmonds, Behrouz Sarshar, Robert Wright, Indira Singh, US Air Force Col. Steve Butler, and Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA). Such examples coincide with legal changes under the USA PATRIOT Act and other statutes and regulations, excessive classification orders, and constant invocation of a state of threat in the homeland. These factors have a powerful silencing effect on others who would come forward. g. Officials and military officers associated with the "failures" of investigation and defense response have not been held accountable; on the contrary, several of them have been confirmed in elevated positions, given awards or promoted following September 11. We draw your attention in particular to the cases of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Richard Myers, Gen. Ralph Eberhart (Commander of NORAD on 9/11/01), Brig. Gen. Montague Winfield (director of the National Military Command Center), FBI officials David Frasca, Marion Bowman, Michael Maltbie and an unnamed FBI official alleged to have tolerated penetration by foreign agents at the Bureau's translations department (CBS News, 8/8/04). h. In the Swiss Re suit against Larry Silverstein, the owner of World Trade Center Building 7 and of a 99-year lease on the entire World Trade Center complex, the insurance company's motions for access to foreign conspirators' statements (obtained by the Kean Commission) were denied. i. Members of the major media clearly have been afraid and/or loath to examine the contradictions and anomalies implicit in the Administration's official 9/11 story.25 Sensational, simplistic and relentless coverage of the attacks and ensuing wars based on the official narrative also proved so profitable for media news divisions that we may never see any serious skeptical investigation into its truth or legitimacy. Members of the mainstream press, by and large, have failed to note ample evidence of cover-ups relating to September 11, question official accounts like The 9/11 Commission Report despite its obvious omissions, distortions, and inconsistencies, pursue the unanswered questions and bodies of evidence cited in Part II of this Complaint and Petition, or even report on the stunning findings of the 9/11 Zogby Poll. j. Congress also has abdicated its responsibility to provide full oversight, conduct exhaustive investigations, provide a credible accounting or even hold in-depth hearings into the most important lines of inquiry put forward by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee. Congress has failed to examine the Kean Commision's questionable "findings of fact and circumstances" on which were based some of the most far-reaching reform recommendations ever proposed in US legislation. Nor has it pursued demands made by Minnesota Senator Mark Dayton for an investigation into NORAD's representations regarding air defense issues. k. The CIA has yet to release an internal report, based upon two years of work, on the September 11 events, which apparently attributes individual accountability for particular failures. The document was withheld until after the November 2, 2004 election and is still being withheld today, amid reports that the new CIA director, Porter Goss, wishes to remove sections "drawing conclusions about whether individual CIA officers should be held accountable for any failures" before releasing the report to the public (New York Times, 11/2/04). This is further indication that possible negligence or complicity on the part of individual officials is being hidden from public and Congressional scrutiny. l. The Justice Department also continues, months after its completion, to suppress "one last chapter" of the The 9/11 Commission Report, which reportedly deals with the "broadly inaccurate accounts provided by several civil and military officials about efforts to track and chase the hijacked aircraft on Sept. 11." (New York Times, 10/30/04). This action, if it occurred, provides further documentation of the US government's overall pattern of suppressing evidence pointing to individual accountability. An independent criminal investigation or impartial grand jury is therefore the only discernible source of redress remaining to the People. source [same as cited above]
All very easy to manufacture with voice technology. They can get Osama to say what ever they want him to say, just as they can anyone else. Your problem is that 9/11 truth is coming out and government stooges will not have an easy life.
God is always good!
Please do not tell me what I know or do not know. Thanks.
Dude...are you really this much of a fucking moron? Why would you respond with unsourced, paraonoia based stupidity knowing that you were going to get resoundingly bitch slapped? Stick to what you can prove not what you ***think***. Your problem is that 9/11 truth is coming out Hardly apparent from anything you Bats have posted on this thread.
More babble...says you with no proof.
By the way...the collapse did not begin when the top fell...the collapse began at the below the top when it could no longer support the top...
I just posted a short summary that was submitted to the then Attorney General of New York, requesting a grand jury be convened. That is all the "proof" one normally needs to present before a grand jury. .gov won't allow any kind of independent investigation go forward. Prove that otherwise.
excellent post
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
ty, Indie.
So says the guy that thinks two airplanes and some kerosene can bring three skyscrapers straight down. That is the epitome of stupidity.
God is always good!
Sucks for you, asshole, that it isn't what I **think**. But it does sum up all of your problems quite succinctly. You HAVE to LIE.
Wha...huh? You want me to prove a negative? ROFLMAO...
Only if his intent was to use up bandwidth.
Dude...are you really this much of a fucking moron? So says the guy that thinks two airplanes and some kerosene can bring three skyscrapers straight down. We should guide him back to 477 so he learns not to be so obvious with his shilling. No I did not ping him because he is BOZOD.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
More babble...says you with no proof. Prove that otherwise. Wha...huh? You want me to prove a negative? ROFLMAO... yeah. Quite hilarious how you distract, distort, obfuscate, and lie.
Yet, oddly, youe've yet to show where I have distracted, distorted, obsfuscated and lied. On the other hand, I have shown where all of you have. E.G: OI claiming that I said that the core didn't exist. Claims that there was no passenger list released with Arab names. Claims that the WTC was designed to take the full speed impact of a 707. Claims that gravity doesn't make things fall straight down [THAT was and is a REAL hoot.] Claims that the WTC was steel frame rather than hollow tube construction. Claims that the outer walls were NOT load bearing. Claims that there were little to no fires. Claims that the outer wall has hardly damaged. Claims that the collapse started with the top section. Claims that I DIDN'T see a UAL jetliner fly into WTC1. You folks are a real hoot.
Good...my world is a much better place now...
You saw what appeared to be a UAL plane hit a WTC tower. That is different from KNOWING it was a UAL plane. You claimed you knew it was a UAL plane. Your eye witness testimony from the ground is NOT proof of ANYTHING.
God is always good!
I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post; it's not worth my time. However, as to your lie, the following serves as just one example: My posting history on this forum is quite limited; my posting on this subject in this forum, even moreso...as a matter of fact, it's limited to just this thread. Yet, you state I made a claim I never uttered. That is a lie, but more than that, it is also a distortion and exaggeration. You were already once corrected on this.
Regardless whether they were designed for that or not, they did take full seed impacts from jet airplanes and stood with no problems until they blew them up.
God is always good!
War is probably a spook. This forum is quite famous among them, even though it is much smaller than some other sites because they know the average IQ here is about 147. That makes us a threat imo. The next time you see some website advertising a "new continental congress" or some such crap asking you to join, rest assured it is a CIA name gathering tool.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
Give it up...
Lie. 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC) (#479) War thinks the WTC towers were not steel framed. I kid you not! (#24) [Full Thread] ~snip~ As for your protestations regarding me characterizing you as a supporter of controlled demolition, you gave 0 choice once you reject the fact that a plane's impact and the ensuing explosion and fires caused a catastrophica failure of the buildings load bearing capabilities, it's all you have left. As for you claiming that I've lied...feel free to post a link to thwere I claimed this: Anyways........now we're back to fuel that caused it.........that MAGIKAL fuel!! litus posted on 2009-03-18 22:14:41 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
Give what up? The truth? I think not.
God is always good!
Unfortunately I think the Campaign for Liberty that Ron Paul started is one as well.
God is always good!
Do you need to know how JFK was killed to know that he was killed? It does not matter how it was done. The fact that it was done is clear for all rational thinkers.
God is always good!
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
There are a handful of viable possibilities available. If the aircraft was "remote controlled," the pilots would have the ability to either override the electronics, or at least radio that they were in dire peril, via radio, or the transponder. That pretty well rules out the "remote control" idea. It can be debated all day long, but those such as myself are qualified to cite the impossible and absurd. I keep an open mind, but there hasn't been that much viable material to speak in support of the detractor theories. Passionate nonsense & rationalization doesn't manufacture truth. One possibility is the hand-picking of at least four black-ops pilots, willing to commit suicide. We'll probably never know. The most important issue is that the 'official' story is so full of holes, that it looks like a chotic gause bandage. Add the massive coverup by the government agencies, aided by the robotic media. Only Israelis were warned of 9-11, the London & Jordianian bombings. As Netanyahu said - before 'correcting' himself, "911 is very good for Israel." Being reasonable & realistic; what can anyone make of all that? Add the Mossad "Dancing Art Students," set up to film the twin tower strikes. Has anyone else noticed that our great "Ally" Israel never contributed as much as a troop of Boy Scouts to serve coffee in the Afghan & Iraq war crime invasions/occupations. (They don't have to!) AND - after being the primary beneficiary of the Geneva Conventions, why is Israel not a signatory to those Conventions? By virtue of their membership in the UN, they are technically a signatory to the Geneva Conventions & Nuremberg Precedents - but tell that to the Gazzans. We live in a time where we must subjectively establish a highly reasonable possibility. Sometimes that comes from presented facts; sometimes from presented information, which can't possibly be true. My advice on 9-11 is to get a copy of Dr. Ray Griffin's "The New Pearl Harbor Revisited." He does quite an academic and surgical analysis of the 911 'official' accounts. I admit, I'm prejudiced on that work. I disagree with him on his conclusion that Flight 93 was shot down, but that's the only criticism I have of the book.
JFK was killed by several bullets but the headshot was probably the only one needed.
If the floors 'pancaked', then why was there no stack of floors at the bottom? 'Pancaked' Hahahaha
Hi Sky - Glad to hear from you.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" How precisely can you make that claim? Do you know for a fact the systems weren't tampered with? How could you possibly say that with any semblence of certainty? One possibility is the hand-picking of at least four black-ops pilots, willing to commit suicide. That's a MUCH further stretch than the possibility of a hostile takeover of the flight systems by remote control.
War thinks the WTC towers were not steel framed. I kid you not! (#24) [Full Thread] Post Date: 2009-03-20 13:03:35 From: litus To: war ~snip~ You dare to claim the above post is "snipped" as something I ever stated? Furthermore, you claim that what you quoted was from my post #24? You are a liar. What I stated in Post #24 contained the following, in full: Magical fuel and magical gravity....all on one day with three towers...beyond fantastical that they all fell onto their own footprint. litus posted on 2009-03-20 13:03:35 ET
This is directly opposite of the speculation of FEMA Thanks much for the link to that...I will read it through tomorrow when my brain is fresh. Interesting above quote...FEMA "speculation"...ain't that a dandy one?!
Tell me that you didn't just respond to me by saying: "Liar!!! I never posted that post about WTC on that other thread that I claimed I did not post but that both you and I have posted again here!!!!"
Because they were made of cement ond the force of the impact obliderated them. What do you ***think*** a good part of that "dust" was? That said, when the Towers collapsed, the debris was up to 14 stories tall.
??? Non Sequiter.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" What you **think** that phrase means, it doesn't.
War. You somehow posted to me in error. And how you presume to know what I think.... Shows a lot of arrogance.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" Nope. It traced back to you. You misused "non sequiter" [sic - which means you misspelled it too]. I HAVE the facts.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI watched the second plane go in and I a) knew it was UAL
#503. To: war (#496)
You CLAIM that all was brought down by controlled demolitions.
"Direct evidence is evidence of a fact based on a witness's personal knowledge or observation of that fact. A person's guilt of a charged crime may be proven by direct evidence if, standing alone, that evidence satisfies a jury beyond a reasonable doubt of the person's guilt of that crime.
In the instant case, there appears to be both direct and circumstantial evidence that can easily refute the claims put forth by .gov. Also in the instant case, it is .gov that is and has been withholding information and/or obstructing the flow of information, to those outside the government. Therefore, the scenario is akin to the fox watching the henhouse. This does not lead to believing statements and proclamations made by the fox. There has been no independent investigations. 6. All formal investigations have started with the premise that the "official story" presents an accurate, objective outline of relevant events on and preceding 9/11. This is assumed to be the case despite the rapid accumulation of evidence that the official accounts (some of which contradict each other) cannot possibly explain the events as they transpired. The effect of this unwarranted presumption has been to exclude critical lines of inquiry and bodies of evidence from the outset.
The following is a good summary of the difficulties, governmental obstruction, and/or problems which have caused citizens the inability to better investigate, and thereby, be able to hold government to account for its malfeasance, suppression of information, or answering any kind of interrogatories:Tools available to citizens have not worked or are not sufficient to the requirements of getting at key facts in this complex case:
If .gov has nothing to hide, and if their story isn't fantastical fiction, there should have been criminal investigations, people should be in jail, information more forthcoming, independent investigations should have been welcomed, and the evidence it presented in the dog and pony show 9/11 Commission, more compelling. However, it is not; .gov has failed. The result: at least 1/3 of all Americans disbelieve its conclusions and statements, despite the fact that the media has excelled at supporting the .gov propaganda.
#504. To: war (#501)
Your other problem is that the second flight has been captured on several videos and yet another problem you have is the recorded conversation between the AA 11's flight attendent and AA's ground ops.
#505. To: RickyJ (#502)
You knew no such thing.
#506. To: RickyJ (#504)
All very easy to manufacture with voice technology...
#507. To: litus (#503)
In the instant case, there appears to be both direct and circumstantial evidence that can easily refute the claims put forth by .gov. Also in the instant case, it is .gov that is and has been withholding information and/or obstructing the flow of information, to those outside the government. Therefore, the scenario is akin to the fox watching the henhouse. This does not lead to believing statements and proclamations made by the fox. There has [sic] been no independent investigations.
#508. To: IndieTX (#471)
#509. To: war (#507)
#510. To: litus (#503)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#511. To: IndieTX (#510)
#512. To: war (#506)
(Edited)
Dude...are you really this much of a fucking moron?
#513. To: RickyJ (#512)
So says the guy that thinks two airplanes and some kerosene can bring three skyscrapers straight down.
#514. To: litus (#509)
Prove that otherwise.
#515. To: IndieTX (#510)
excellent post
#516. To: RickyJ, original_intent (#512)
(Edited)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#517. To: war (#514)
In the instant case, there appears to be both direct and circumstantial evidence that can easily refute the claims put forth by .gov. Also in the instant case, it is .gov that is and has been withholding information and/or obstructing the flow of information, to those outside the government. Therefore, the scenario is akin to the fox watching the henhouse. This does not lead to believing statements and proclamations made by the fox. There has [sic] been no independent investigations.
#518. To: litus (#517)
yeah. Quite hilarious how you distract, distort, obfuscate, and lie.
#519. To: IndieTX (#516)
#520. To: war (#513)
#521. To: war (#518)
youe've yet to show where I have distracted, distorted, obsfuscated and lied.
#522. To: war (#518)
(Edited)
Claims that the WTC was designed to take the full speed impact of a 707.
#523. To: RickyJ, christine (#522)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#524. To: RickyJ (#522)
Regardless whether they were designed for that or not, they did take full seed impacts from jet airplanes and stood with no problems.
#525. To: litus (#521)
My posting history on this forum is quite limited; my posting on this subject in this forum, even moreso...as a matter of fact, it's limited to just this thread.
[Full Thread] Post Date: 2009-03-21 00:22:14 From: litus To: war
Post Date: 2009-03-20 13:03:35 From: litus To: war
#526. To: war (#524)
Give it up...
#527. To: IndieTX (#523)
The next time you see some website advertising a "new continental congress" or some such crap asking you to join, rest assured it is a CIA name gathering tool.
#528. To: war (#496)
Starkly missing from this thread is EXACTLY how this "plot" was executed.
#529. To: litus (#491)
freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...?ArtNum=53208&Disp=12#C12
#530. To: Artisan, Christine, Jethro Tull, It istoolate, All (#498)
so you are saying that you believe that there had to be real pilots flying the planes but that they were not arab boogeyman? who the heck were they then? some neocons with a zeal for empire? i dont know if that sounds plausible??
#531. To: RickyJ (#528)
Do you need to know how JFK was killed to know that he was killed?
#532. To: war (#495)
You could have blasted the ahit out of the core and the floors STILL would have had to have pancaked downward.
"If I were going to construct a God I would furnish him with some ways and qualities and characteristics which the Present One lacks... He would spend some of His eternities in trying to forgive Himself for making man unhappy when He could have made him happy with the same effort and He would spend the rest of them in studying astronomy." ~ Mark Twain
#533. To: SKYDRIFTER (#530)
#534. To: SKYDRIFTER (#530)
If the aircraft was "remote controlled," the pilots would have the ability to either override the electronics, or at least radio that they were in dire peril, via radio, or the transponder. That pretty well rules out the "remote control" idea.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#535. To: war (#525)
9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC) (#479) [Full Thread] Post Date: 2009-03-21 00:22:14 From: litus To: war
#24. To: war (#21)
So, not only have you lied again, now you falsely attribute statements I never made....to me.
[QUOTE] Gravity did...[ENDQUOTE]
lol!
#536. To: Kamala (#529)
The NIST finding requires that the floor end connections held and that the sagging floors remained connected to the columns.
#537. To: litus (#535)
#538. To: tom007 (#533)
If the floors 'pancaked', then why was there no stack of floors at the bottom?
#539. To: war (#538)
What do you ***think*** a good part of that "dust" was?
#540. To: tom007 (#539)
Non Sequiter
#541. To: war (#540)
What you **think** that phrase means, it doesn't.
#542. To: tom007 (#541)
You somehow posted to me in error.
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