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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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Views: 12752
Comments: 607
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#361. To: TwentyTwelve (#355)
quote: "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it, that was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building could probably sustain multiple impacts of jet liners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door - this intense grid - and the plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting." I have read that...thanks for posting.
of note: he died on 9/11....
That's it. I've previously referenced the temperature from more authoritative sites which I can't find at the moment, but I'll cite WikiAnswers on this one. I'm going out to the garage to do some fabrication work. Got some kerosene out there, and I think that I've got a thermometer that will go that high. I'll run a little experiment later and tell you how it turned out.
Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA. BTW, you contradict yourself here. Did it topple or did it drop staight down? It's easy to see the answer on various videos, but I'd like you to admit that it couldn't have done BOTH.
The 1975 World Trade Center Fire The February 13, 1975 North Tower Fire has been carefully hidden from you. Here are a few reports concerning it. -----------------------------
BTW, you contradict yourself here. Did it topple or did it drop staight down? It's easy to see the answer on various videos, but I'd like you to admit that it couldn't have done BOTH. I know what I saw in the videos....and it is a physical impossibility for it to do both. : )
So.......were they wrong then or wrong after 9/11...."what steel frames"????? lol!
Me: Oh and BTW, there were no "raging fires", there was a bit of a diesel fire inside but nothing close to a "raging fire". war: You're out of your fucking mind. Do I need to post yet even more pictures showing how stupid you are? war: If they weren't who they said that then what else could they have been using? Huh? Are you even an American? You don't speak the language very well...
So.......were they wrong then or wrong after 9/11...."what steel frames"????? lol! That the 1975 fire was more intense than the 9/11 fires is evident from the fact that it caused the 11th floor east side windows to break and flames could be seen pouring from these broken windows. This indicates a temperature greater than 700°C. In the 9/11 fires the windows were not broken by the heat (only by the aircraft impact) indicating a temperature below 700°C. So now you know that the WTC towers were well designed and quite capable of surviving a serious fire. I repeat that this was a very hot fire that burnt through the open-plan office area of the eleventh floor and spread up and down the central core area for many floors. This was a serious fire.
www.prisonplanet.com/Pages/Apr_05/100405_WTC_Fire.html 1975 WTC fire burned six floors for three hours New York Times | Feb 14 1975 Original Scans from archived issues of The New York Times. on 9/11 the fires burned for much shorter times and were the official cause of collapse. We have also recently seen other tall steel buildings burn for hours and stay standing.
Oh and BTW war, I also noticed you used screenshots from a flash presentation provided by the GOVERNMENT for its case against Zacarias Moussaoui. These are NOT flight manifests, but simply a visual aid created by the government. As far as the FLIGHT MANIFESTS, well, go ahead and find them...
It must not have been very large or colorful since I can't find it anywhere on this thread. Please point out which post it was, and/or repost the chart.
As far as the FLIGHT MANIFESTS, well, go ahead and find them... None of the official hijackers of the Sep11th-attack appeared on the original manifest of the passenger list. Here is the official info about these "hijackers". Many of the real identities are still alive. The FBI ignored these facts during 2001-2002 and never updated their suspect list. Passenger List
Another particularly important part of this is to note that Towers one, two, and seven have all of the 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition, a building collapsing from fire and plane impact damage having one of the characteristics of controlled demolition is astronomically rare, the chances of this damage having all 10 characteristics of a controlled demolition and not being a controlled demolition is next to nil. These characteristics are. 1. Each collapse occurred at virtually free fall speed; 2. Each building collapsed straight down, for the most part onto its own footprint; 3. Virtually all the concrete was turned into very fine dust; 4. In the case of the Twin Towers, the dust was blown out horizontally for 200 feet or more; 5. The collapses were total, leaving no steel columns sticking up hundreds of feet into the air; 6. Videos of the collapses reveal "demolition waves", meaning "confluent rows of small explosions"; 7. Most of the steel beams and columns came down in sections that were no more than 30 feet long; 8. According to many witnesses, explosions occurred within the buildings; 9. Each collapse was associated with detectable seismic vibrations (suggestive of underground explosions); 10. Each collapse produced molten steel (which would be produced by explosives), resulting in "hot spots" that remained for months.? Source: Professor David Ray Griffin
Those links have all been scrubbed...........
Oh, one other bit of info war. You know that picture you misidentified as WTC7 where it was actually an image of WTC5, well that is captioned as follows in the following link... Figure 4-13 from the FEMA Report shows WTC5 burning, with labeled floors.
That was my typo and there is a link there, doof.
What you Fail lto consider that a) they were already weakened from the impact and explposionn and b) that the fires did get hot enough to tweak the metal... Thermal profile:
You're out of your fucking mind... Look at any video of the second plane hitting the building...the explosion does not initiate outside of the building...it bursts FROM the building... I knew Eurobroker guys in WTC 1 who were impacted by a fireball and explosion at the elevator crossover @ 44. Your problem is that I know people who were in that building...who felt the impact explosion IN THE BUILDING...they didn't "hear it" outside the building.
Both of those pics show massive damage to the exterior support columns...
Relatively speaking you shouldn't want it to be that low...
Until it was acted upon by a plane travellng at 400+ MPH and then further acted upon by the energy expended in supporting more weight than that for which it was designed...unless for some stupid reason you believe that the plane came to a dead stop just before hitting it...which, given your insnae blatherings here, it would NOT surprise me if you did believe that...
Do you understand the concept of "impressment"? Do you undertsand the concept of the relationship between velocity and weight?
He didn't design the building; he built it.
Fitterman is still undergoing reconstruction...the DB Building is being deconstructed. 1 Liberty was damaged massively and required a half year of reconstrcution. That said, none of those buildings burned for 7 hours...
When you use the word "toppling" you imply that it was already in motion and that should have been propelled away from the building. You need to grasp a basic concept of physics as to how gravity affects a body...once it's center is established...it falls straight down...the top of the tower was a body at rest and so while it was "tilted" it was so at rest...once the support beneath it gave way it was a simple exercise of falling...the only direction in which it should have continued was down...
The only force acting on it was gravity. Does gravity affect a body from the side?
Have you ever been in the Towers? If so then you know there is a natural sway to them...lateral forces were continually at work on them... Secondly, as has been pointed out to you numerous times, the external support mitigated the vertical load and since the external support was compromised the energy being put upon and expended by the core was substanially more than normal. Regardless, the majority of the exterior support columns were intact. Feel free to wax eloquently on the WTC designer's using redundant support columns on the exterior. Also, you want it both ways...you'll claim that it was controlled demolition that brought the towers down which is a process by which only some of the main supports are destroyed...but here you are claiming that because some of the support remained thatg it should not have collapsed. Can any of you Moonbats explain to me, that if the government did this, why did they allow 22K people to escape with their lives and why did they go to the trouble of haing planes flyu into the buildings? The WTC had been bombed before. Why not just bomb it again?
Well...I was accepting your use of the word topple which I then disputed above...the top does move angularly for the brief moment it took to establish a center of gravity...
Bad reporting. So what? I've posted how the architects and engineers describe it. Not a news reporter.
Nope. Wherein your post did you demand a pic of WTC 7?
No, the load put on the core would not have been significantly greater than normal. The vast majority of the exterior columns were undamaged so the change in load on the core would have been minimal.
God is always good!
Family has been here since the 1680's...I typoe fast and multi-task... Me: The individuals listed as the hijackers are not said to be using aliases war: If they weren't who they said they were, then what else could they have been using? Better?
Please list your engineering credentials that you could contradict the designers... Thanks...
Nope. The windows were broken by impact AND explosion. But your starement is moronic from several other angles as well not the least of which was that since the fire was already vented all it had to do was feed and accelerate......
I never doubted that they weren't. What they weren't designed for was an impact @ 400-500+ MPH, an internal explosion and fire.
I posted the one from the Boston Globe on 9/13, doof. That said, it's been said that the flight manifests have never been published showing Arab names. Is it your concession now that they were?
The "designers" did not say that the load on the core was significantly greater. And even if they did any model of the WTC with similar damage would prove that it wasn't. Credentials are only required for people that need to prove a basic understanding of something to someone else becasue they have no real experience to speak of. I need no such crutch.
God is always good!
Sorry...I probably screwed up the tag...
Comments (401 - 607) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThis what Frank A. DeMartini, WTC construction and project manager said...
#362. To: TwentyTwelve (#360)
Frank A. DeMartini, WTC construction and project manager said...
#363. To: RickyJ (#352)
(Edited)
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com
#364. To: war (#97)
The top of the tower did topple over as you've been shown...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#365. To: litus (#362)
The 1975 World Trade Center Fire
This 110-story steel-framed office building suffered a fire on the 11th floor on February 13, 1975. The loss was estimated at over $2000000. ...
www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_1975_fire.html - 9k -
#366. To: FormerLurker, war (#364)
The top of the tower did topple over as you've been shown...
#367. To: TwentyTwelve (#365)
This 110-story steel-framed office building
#368. To: war (#175)
(Edited)
You're busted. I just noticed you posted an image of WTC5 trying to pass it off as an image of WTC7. The image properties indicate the file name is http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/docs/wtc5_fire_floors.jpg, which shows that image depicts Building 5 not Building 7.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#369. To: war (#176)
Me: The individuals listed as the hijackers are not said to be using aliases
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#370. To: litus (#367)
This 110-story steel-framed office building
#371. To: litus (#367)
#372. To: war, Original_Intent, ALL (#194)
(Edited)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#373. To: war (#332)
B) I posted a chart above showing that the collapse took time well in excess of free fall speed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#374. To: FormerLurker, War, Litus (#372)
Oh and BTW war, I also noticed you used screenshots from a flash presentation provided by the GOVERNMENT for its case against Zacarias Moussaoui. These are NOT flight managests, but simply a visual aid created by the government.
![[Sept11Wiki]](/img/moin-inter.gif){kind=small}
#375. To: war (#175)
#376. To: TwentyTwelve (#374)
#377. To: war (#175)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#378. To: FormerLurker (#342)
Wherever you obtained that quote apparently can't even spell the word CHIEF.
#379. To: FormerLurker (#342)
What you fail to consider is that the fires did not burn hot enough to weaken the structure.
#380. To: FormerLurker (#343)
Bullshit.
#381. To: FormerLurker (#344)
Post either of the two images and point out the actual damage to the exterior columns.
#382. To: FormerLurker (#345)
Wow, so your IQ is at around zero now, eh?
#383. To: FormerLurker (#346)
Inertia? It was at rest
#384. To: FormerLurker (#348)
Again, you fail to address the question as to why it only took several seconds to demolish 100 floors of undamaged steel and concrete.
#385. To: TwentyTwelve (#355)
This what Frank A. DeMartini, WTC construction and project manag
#386. To: TwentyTwelve (#356)
It is important to note that Building 7 was no closer to the towers than any of several other large buildings outside of the WTC complex.
#387. To: FormerLurker (#357)
The top of the tower had started to topple over, indicating one corner of the supporting structure below had failed. It should have continued in that direction,
#388. To: FormerLurker (#357)
The top of the tower had started to topple over, indicating one corner of the supporting structure below had failed. It should have continued in that direction, ABSENT ANY OTHER FORCE
#389. To: FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, litus, randge, scrapper2, James Deffenbach (#358)
There was not a hurricane going on that day, so resistance to horizonal force is not a factor.
#390. To: FormerLurker (#364)
BTW, you contradict yourself here. Did it topple or did it drop staight down?
#391. To: litus (#367)
So.......were they wrong then or wrong after 9/11...."what steel frames"?????
#392. To: FormerLurker (#368)
You're busted. I just noticed you posted an image of WTC5 trying to pass it off as an image of WTC7.
#393. To: war (#389)
Secondly, as has been pointed out to you numerous times, the external support mitigated the vertical load and since the external support was compromised the energy being put upon and expended by the core was substanially more than normal.
#394. To: FormerLurker (#369)
Huh? Are you even an American? You don't speak the language very well...
#395. To: RickyJ (#393)
No, the load put on the core would not have been significantly greater than normal.
#396. To: TwentyTwelve (#370)
In the 9/11 fires the windows were not broken by the heat (only by the aircraft impact) indicating a temperature below 700°C.
#397. To: TwentyTwelve (#370)
So now you know that the WTC towers were well designed and quite capable of surviving a serious fire
#398. To: FormerLurker (#372)
As far as the FLIGHT MANIFESTS, well, go ahead and find them
#399. To: war (#395)
Please list your engineering credentials that you could contradict the designers...
#400. To: FormerLurker (#373)
repost the chart.
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