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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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Views: 12908
Comments: 607
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#424. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, randge, scrapper2, James Deffenbach (#389)
Yes, I have. I've also been on the Empire State Building, built in 1931. One could easily suppose without a degree in engineering, that, given the materials and abilities back in the late 1920's as compared to those of the early 1970's, were not only quite different, but there were conceivably lower standards to be met. Although the wind which blows against that tower is also quite severe and it has withstood the impact of a B-25 bomber...which also had fuel, commentary is nil regarding its current structural soundness. This tells me that it remains a safe building. It is apparent that, given the limitations of the 1920's, it was designed quite well. With a foggy day and the B-25 bomber in mind, the WTC was designed. I believe that, for a building, it is irrelevant whether fog is present or absent when it is directly hit by a plane. And it's a certainty that if a plane is in the air, it has fuel. You keep posting about the architects and designers anticipating flight impact and fog. Terrific! But do you mean to state also that, though these highly educated and intelligent architects and designers, who were anticipating and designing for the possibility of a jet aircraft collision with a tower near three of the busiest airports in the world (JFK, Newark, and La Guardia), who anticipated and designed for the possibility of the impact of SEVERAL 707's due to fog.........but were unable to conceive that the plane(s) would have fuel, possibly having just taken off from JFK, Newark, and/or La Guardia? Come on....let's give some credit to the designers instead of .gov's fairy tales!
It's quite relevant to the speed...a plane looking to land in the fog is not pushing the outer envelope. In all the likely variations of an accidental impact with the WTC, the Boeing 707 would be traveling faster. You're out of your mind...planes do not land in excess of 350-400 knots... Since the Boeing 707 had a higher thrust to weight ratio, it would be traveling faster on take-off and on landing. The approach speed for a 707 is 115-120 knots...take off speed is 116 knots...
OK, you understand two masses are attracted by the force of gravity from each mass, right? But what you fail to understand is that masses cannot go through other masses at the acceleration of gravity. There is a collision involved which results in the opposite force of gravity. This results in a significant slowing of the attracting masses. Even a reversal of direction of the attracting masses is possible if the collision is powerful enough. A real pancaking of the WTC towers could not occur in 15 seconds due to the collisions at each floor. Also the collisions of the floors alone would not make the core columns collapse. They were holding the floors up, so without their weight they would have even been stronger rather than weaker to continue standing.
God is always good!
re: Win Willy Someone offered the owner $3 million for him after that race and the owner rejected it when common sense tells one to go for the bucks. It was an impressive victory. I didn't see it coming over one of the derby favorites, Old Fashioned. But when I saw the name and the winning price, $115.00, I thought that I wish I gave you that tip.
Do you think the WTC Towers were immune to controlled demolition?
Did you see what I posted above? The WTC was not a solid object falling though another solid object. Also, what you fail to take into account is that resistance may SLOW the collapse but it is not going to make it DECREASE in speed as it is collapsing unless the mass of the resistance somehow becomes greater than the force of the collapse. So, gravity is still going to increase the speed of the collapse UNLESS the resistance is GREATER than the velocity of the falling body. Do you agree that as the Tower collapses the velocity of the falling body increased? They were holding the floors up Uh no...trusses [as opposed to I-beams, as it would be in a steel framed building], which were attached to the core and the outer support, were holding the floors up. ON top of the trusses was concrete floor.
Of course not. But you want me believe that they were immune to a catastrophic impact and explosion and then fires. Again, my question is why vbother with the impact? Blow up the buildings with a CD and blame Iraq. If you beleive that the American people are so gullible then why would you believe that they couldn't fall for that as well?
You know my iitials, right? My biggest Derby win was betting on them....
Of course not. But you want me believe that they were immune to a catastrophic impact and explosion and then fires. Again, my question is why vbother with the impact? Blow up the buildings with a CD and blame Iraq. If you beleive that the American people are so gullible then why would you believe that they couldn't fall for that as well? At least the sheeple believe your b.s.
God forbid that you actually answer the question.
The New World Order is on the move. I don't have time to debate with the New World Orders shills.
They couldn't have accounted for the Magickal Jet Fuel™ because no one knew anything about that when they designed and built the towers. >(;^{]
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Riiight...you just have time to spam a thread with "Once Upon A Time..." and then ignore the reality that comes back at you... But, God forbid that you actually answer a question.
Well one thing that they agreed upon is that a Douchenbag is going to believe what a Douchenbag is going to believe...
LOLOL! Yeah...I keep forgetting that one. : )
Considering how many times that he's reminded you, I'd get that checked...
Well, that is understandable since they only ever made one batch of it and it was all used up on 9/11. I hope they lost the formula for it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. I think I have a better recommendation: Re-examine your blind trust in a .gov that has shown itself to be duplicitous and unconcerned about the people of this country.
: )
Riiight...you just have time to spam a thread with "Once Upon A Time..." and then ignore the reality that comes back at you... You are the one promoting the "Once Upon A Time..." government fairy tale.
This is where you lose any sense of the rational. I have taken each and every bit of your theories and conclusions and researched them. It isn't as if this is the first time I've seen this stuff. I have close to 100 bookmarks on my work computr alone and in those bookmarks are links to pages that could be bookmarked. You folks have a lot of problems, not the least of which are pathological, but even putting them aside, your conclisions are not supported by facts. All of you have posted quesitons to me which I have answered and sourced. Not one of you have responded to any of the questions that I have posed to you. How could you be so certain of your conclusions when you are so unopen to questions about them? You're as bad as the God freaks demanding that I have FAITH in that which I cannot see. But worse...I know that no man can show me God while YOU most certainly CAN show why you believe as you do. The problem is you don't which leads me to one conclusion and it's that you cannot...there is not one quesiton that you raise about that day that either cannot be answered or doesn't have a faulty premise at its root. Some of you have posted some of the most absurd claims, e.g., the plane did not explode INSIDE the WTC...the outside was relatively undamaged...no manifest with Arab names was ever published [when one was] and the coup de gras, the WTC Towers were built to withsatnd an explosion but it was an explosion that brought them down... Why not trying to answer the easiest question of all. Why use the planes? Why only kill 3K? Why use Afghanistan as a means of getting Itaq when Iraq was already a convenient target?
Psychological impact. Emotional impact. Terror. American outrage.
A sense of the rational is lost whenever an argument is made that anything issuing from an illegitimate government is legitimate. The 9/11 narrative as told by FedGovCorpInc and its various media is stinkier than week old pork left in the sun. Still waiting on your explanation for Satam Al Suqami's passport.
There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Oh, so all those steel columns in the core and the cement surrounding them can just "implode", eh? And the floors, well, they are just about as thin as paper, right? Right. The towers certainly didn't implode for anyone who has watched the collapse on video. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Did you ever take physics? When an object's equilibrium changes due to a change in the forces acting upon it, it moves in a direction with a net force in the direction of that vector. If a corner of the supporting structure had collapsed, as is apparent in the tilted position seen in the beginning of the collapse I had shown, then its center of gravity DOES change. The fact that the SIDE of the structure is pointing at a DOWNWARDS angle indicates that the force of gravity is exerting a net force on the SIDE of the structure which causes a LATERAL force vector to be applied to that object, in this case the top of the WTC which is leaning over. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. There is no reason there SHOULD have been a near free-fall collapse. Of course, with explosives in the floors BELOW the damaged floors, the top of the tower would have just dropped like a rock, exactly as it did.
"If you follow the money, you can see that the people with the most to gain occupied the key military and civilian positions to help 9/11 happen, as well as to cover up the crime. Such is the hallmark of false flag operations throughout history. "But the incredible scale of the 9/11 sham, and the sheer number of people who still refuse to see the mountain of truth in front of their eyes...that's what makes the September 11, 2001 attacks the greatest false flag operation of all time. "Hermann Göring stated: "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." "Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf, a book still forbidden in some countries (such as France), wrote: "In the size of the lie there is always contained a certain factor of credibility, since the great masses of the people...will more easily fall victim to a great lie than to a small one." Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
You even said it yourself, that the top of the tower had a different center of gravity from the rest of the structure when it broke off and started to lean. Or did you forget that?
Psychological impact. Emotional impact. Terror. American outrage. Also misdirection. Like a stage magician drawing the audiences attention to the moving hand. The planes acted to draw people's attention away from the other things going on - such as demolition charges going off. It also gave them a ready made cover story, however implausible, as to why the buildings collapsed. Then by sticking to the big lie enough of the sucker class would buy it - and some still do.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
That's basic geometry bro... Did you forget your own words that you wrote shortly before questioning me about two centers of gravity?
So war, do you admit you posted a picture of building 5 and tried to pass it off as a picture of building 7? Yep, that building 5 sure did burn didn't it. BTW, it didn't collapse did it...
I've noticed war likes to evade those sorts of facts.
"You're either with US or you're with the illegal shadow government !"
All of you have posted quesitons to me which I have answered and sourced. Not one of you have responded to any of the questions that I have posed to you. ... Nonsense. You have linked to derivative apologias - such as the drawings you tried to misrepresent as the passenger manifests. No, the Passenger Manifests are the Passenger Manifests as released by the Airlines in the 24 hours following the Op. None of those ORIGINAL Passenger Manifests show any Arabic names. When presented with a datum you cannot refute you go off on another diversionary tangent and then cite things not said by anyone on this thread as proof that people seeking the truth are are all nuts for doing so. Your tactic is dishonest and is logically false. Here again you concoct an irrational and logically invalid hodgepodge and then attribute it to ALL when ALL have not made ALL of the claims you falsely attempt to attribute to them. Again you are using a dishonest disinformation tactic to smear not refute: Some has a name. SOME is NOT ALL. The WTC Towers were built to withstand an aircraft impact and yet you assert that two aircraft impacts brought down 3 buildings. Further your assertion is again false as you assert the buildings were built to withstand an explosion but all things engineering have a scale and a tolerance. When you exceed the structures tolerance you exceed its capacity to remain standing. No, what you have done is presented argument that really says nothing while, falsely, asserting and acting as though it proves something.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
"You're either with US or you're with the illegal shadow government !" Exactly. At this point I think we can gauge "war's" true colors, and they ain't Red, White, and Blue. More like just plain Red.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Had you bothered to read any of the information that I posted both the time and the reasons were posted and they are far more plausible than believing that seemingly silent charges were placed along the entirity of the 1400+ feet of the core and "bathtub" and then a plane was rammed into it to distract. So only in your mind have I evaded those...but it does underscore what I have been saying all along...you folks don't want me toanswer your questoins.
Once again evasion, dissembling, and distortion. Charges would not need to be put along the entire core, which previously you tried to deny existed as the primary structural support of the towers, but only at enough points to collapse the structure under the gravity load. As well you ignore and sidestep the eyewitness testimony of people in the buildings, and first responders, who reported explosions going off. To collapse the structure you need only sever the primary support members, the core, at key points. No, all you are really trying to do is throw up confusion to divert from the key points - all of which you are busy evading.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Funny that you consider the structural engineer an apologist. Funny that you can "impeach" all of my sources as apologias when you can't link any of them directly to the government report. Funny that you can avoid every quesiton that has been posed by me about your beliefs by waving your magic Moonbat Wand and proclaim them moot. The WTC Towers were built to withstand an aircraft impact and yet you assert that two aircraft impacts brought down 3 buildings. That is NOT what I assert and I have corrected this several times over. It was the combination of the damage of the planes' impact, the damage from the planes' exploding and the resultant fires that brought the towers down. Further your assertion is again false as you assert the buildings were built to withstand an explosion but all things engineering have a scale and a tolerance. When you exceed the structures tolerance you exceed its capacity to remain standing. No, what you have done is presented argument that really says nothing while, falsely, asserting and acting as though it proves something. I am sure that there is a cogent thought in there somewhere yearning to be set free...
Riiight...as if bringing down the Towers on 25K unsuspecting people wouldn't have a psychological impact. You folks skipped absurd and went right to goofy...
Still silent re: Satam Al Suqami's passport?
Besides the fact that it was found? Did he not have it on him when he boarded the aiurcraft? Was it in his luggage? Where was it?
Comments (464 - 607) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestHave you ever been in the Towers? If so then you know there is a natural sway to them...lateral forces were continually at work on them...
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 707-320B is 336,000 pounds.
The maximum takeoff weight for a Boeing 767-200ER is 395,000 pounds.
The wingspan of a Boeing 707 is 146 feet.
The wingspan of a Boeing 767 is 156 feet.
The length of a Boeing 707 is 153 feet.
The length of a Boeing 767 is 159 feet.
The Boeing 707 could carry 23,000 gallons of fuel.
The Boeing 767 could carry 23,980 gallons of fuel.
The cruise speed of a Boeing 707 is 607 mph = 890 ft/s,
The cruise speed of a Boeing 767 is 530 mph = 777 ft/s.
The Boeing 707 and 767 are very similar aircraft, with the main differences
being that the 767 is slightly heavier and the 707 is faster.
Since the Boeing 707 had a higher thrust to weight ratio, it would be traveling
faster on take-off and on landing.
The thrust to weight ratio for a Boeing 707 is 4 x 18,000/336,000 = 0.214286.
The thrust to weight ratio for a Boeing 767 is 2 x 31,500/395,000 = 0.159494.
In all the likely variations of an accidental impact with the WTC, the Boeing
707 would be traveling faster. In terms of impact damage, this higher speed
would more than compensate for the slightly lower weight of the Boeing 707.
* source
#425. To: litus (#424)
With a foggy day and the B-25 bomber in mind, the WTC was designed. I believe that, for a building, it is irrelevant whether fog is present
#426. To: war (#422)
(Edited)
#427. To: war (#425)
#428. To: war (#423)
If the Towers were meant to survive an explosion...why is it that you promote the idea that it was an explosion that brought them down?
#429. To: RickyJ (#426)
But what you fail to understand is that masses cannot go through other masses at the acceleration of gravity
#430. To: TwentyTwelve (#428)
Do you think the WTC Towers were immune to controlled demolition?
#431. To: Fred Mertz (#427)
I thought that I wish I gave you that tip.
#432. To: war (#430)
Do you think the WTC Towers were immune to controlled demolition?
#433. To: TwentyTwelve (#432)
#434. To: war (#433)
God forbid that you actually answer the question.
#435. To: litus (#424)
(Edited)
But do you mean to state also that, though these highly educated and intelligent architects and designers, who were anticipating and designing for the possibility of a jet aircraft collision with a tower near three of the busiest airports in the world (JFK, Newark, and La Guardia), who anticipated and designed for the possibility of the impact of SEVERAL 707's due to fog.........but were unable to conceive that the plane(s) would have fuel, possibly having just taken off from JFK, Newark, and/or La Guardia? Come on....let's give some credit to the designers instead of .gov's fairy tales!
Lord Acton
#436. To: TwentyTwelve (#434)
I don't have time to debate with the New World Orders shills.
#437. To: James Deffenbach (#435)
#438. To: James Deffenbach (#435)
They couldn't have accounted for the Magickal Jet Fuel™ because no one knew anything about that when they designed and built the towers. >(;^{]
#439. To: litus (#438)
Yeah...I keep forgetting that one. : )
#440. To: litus (#438)
LOLOL! Yeah...I keep forgetting that one. : )
Lord Acton
#441. To: war (#439)
#442. To: James Deffenbach (#440)
#443. To: war (#436)
I don't have time to debate with the New World Orders shills.
#444. To: litus, TwentyTwelve, RickyJ, Former Lurker (#441)
Re-examine your blind trust in a .gov that has shown itself to be duplicitous and unconcerned about the people of this country.
#445. To: war, litus, RickyJ, Former Lurker, Rotara, Original_Intent, wudidiz (#444)
Why use the planes?
#446. To: war (#444)
This is where you lose any sense of the rational.
#447. To: bluegrass (#446)
bump
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#448. To: war (#420)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#449. To: bluegrass (#446)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#450. To: war (#420)
Are you trying to tell me that there was more than one center of gravity on one structure?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#451. To: TwentyTwelve war, litus, RickyJ, Former Lurker, Rotara, wudidiz (#445)
< Why use the planes?
#452. To: war (#415)
Actually when it was attached ot the building it did not as the structure had a center of gravity. when that support broke the top established its own.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#453. To: war (#174)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#454. To: RickyJ (#426)
A real pancaking of the WTC towers could not occur in 15 seconds due to the collisions at each floor. Also the collisions of the floors alone would not make the core columns collapse. They were holding the floors up, so without their weight they would have even been stronger rather than weaker to continue standing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#455. To: Original_Intent (#451)
ehehe
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#456. To: war, litus, TwentyTwelve, RickyJ, Former Lurker, bluegrass (#444)
This is where you lose any sense of the rational. I have taken each and every bit of your theories and conclusions and researched them. It isn't as if this is the first time I've seen this stuff. I have close to 100 bookmarks on my work computr alone and in those bookmarks are links to pages that could be bookmarked. You folks have a lot of problems, not the least of which are pathological, but even putting them aside, your conclisions are not supported by facts.
Some of you have posted some of the most absurd claims, e.g., the plane did not explode INSIDE the WTC...the outside was relatively undamaged...no manifest with Arab names was ever published [when one was] and the coup de gras, the WTC Towers were built to withsatnd an explosion but it was an explosion that brought them down...
#457. To: Rotara, war (#455)
ehehe
#458. To: FormerLurker (#454)
I've noticed war likes to evade those sorts of facts.
#459. To: war, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, tom007, litus, bluegrass, all (#458)
#460. To: Original_Intent (#456)
Nonsense. You have linked to derivative apologias
#461. To: TwentyTwelve (#445)
Psychological impact.
#462. To: war (#460)
#463. To: bluegrass (#446)
Still waiting on your explanation for Satam Al Suqami's passport.
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