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Title: 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC)
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Published: Mar 16, 2009
Author: msnbc
Post Date: 2009-03-16 13:04:41 by Artisan
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Views: 12578
Comments: 607
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#486. To: litus (#478)
I know you are new to posting here, we went though this some time ago with BAC. If you do a search, you can find huge threads with all the real info needed. Sky, myself and numerous others posted tons and tons of info destroying the FEDS theory on 911. Everything about WTC 1-2 collapse according to the official NIST Report rests on one unproven scenario only, that ALL the SFRM/fireproofing was blown or removed from the impact floors by the aircraft. Not some of it, but all. This figure is around 80,000 sq feet. The whole NIST Report is ridiculous.
Mark If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
Logic and facts are not conspiracist nutters' strengths.
Yet, oddly, you have been unable to point these out and offer any kind of TANGBIBLE evidence to the contrary...in other words, you're relying on your SAY SO.
Yet, oddly, you have been unable to establish any tangible evidence that I have engaged in the above and are relying simply on your say so. And, in point of fact, YOU, OI, have outright lied about my positions.
Still waiting for that link, btw...
Not some of it, but all. This figure is around 80,000 sq feet. The whole NIST Report is ridiculous. That's was another point upon which their story hinges. Yet another preposterous requirement. "ALL" the fireproofing.... The absurdities of their story.........it takes more faith, imo, to believe them than it does to believe that God exists and fashioned all creation, in whatever "way" He chose to do it.... *shaking head* Thanks for the information about other threads...I'll look them up.
Nope; I'm relying upon those who don't have a vested interest in covering up for .gov fiction...and have come to contrary conclusions, based upon the same "evidence".......which YOU disbelieve and which YOU dismiss.
parts one two and three disprove the government theory with high school physics and real numbers Even in a best case scenario with all condiditons favorable to the government theory (none of which were present), it would have taken at least 44 seconds to collapse, if it were possible. The laws of probability to do not support this happening to three buildings in precisely the same manner. In fact, it is a statistical impossibility, as was not one, but four ex-military airline crews allowing themselves to be overcome without even squawking the hijack transponder code.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
Acting as "too bad" for his calculations is the simple fact that not all of the floors below the top block are intact so his calcluations of the initial accleleration and resitance is flawed.
Let ne explain this to you like you are six... You are Sam...Sam you am... The THINGS holding up the FLOOR were NOT the CORE. What's that flying out the door? Looks like a BAT. You could have blasted the ahit out of the core and the floors STILL would have had to have pancaked downward.
You haven't PRESENTED any evidence. You CLAIM that all was brought down by controlled demolitions. Given how the Towers collapsed, at the least YOU have to be able to show exactly WHERE those charges were set. Not to mention WHEN they were set and not to mention who, what, and from where those charges were activated. Starkly missing from this thread is EXACTLY how this "plot" was executed.
Add that the pilots would have to be done-in, to preclude their override of any "remote control." The "remote control" debate fails the smell-test, from the very beginning. You're assuming that the government's bag of equipment contains the same equipment you can buy off the shelf. Of course they would have technology MUCH more sophisticated than anything publicly available, and it would CLASSIFIED so neither you nor anyone else would know what feats could be performed using THEIR remote control equipment. Needless to say, if a cruise missile can hit its target, so can a larger and slower aircraft. As far as the maintenance crew, who's to say the crew wasn't infiltrated by black ops? And who knows how well the government could conceal a device if they really wanted to...
wait a minute. from my understanding this newly-found clip and those posting it simply purport not that planes didnt hit the towers, but that the planes were perhaps different planes than the originals which the govt claims hit the buildings. I did not know you did not believe that the planes were remote controlled. I repsect your opinion which is why i asked. so you are saying that you believe that there had to be real pilots flying the planes but that they were not arab boogeyman? who the heck were they then? some neocons with a zeal for empire? i dont know if that sounds plausible?? thanks for the reply.
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth. Which is why computer guidance systems are now used. I'm not sure anyone expects a real pilot to be remotely controlling these planes. Think guidance system as in missiles. Just a thought .. All I know is I couldn't have pulled this off and I don't think cave dwelling Cessna pilots could either.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
As far as the maintenance crew, who's to say the crew wasn't infiltrated by black ops? And who knows how well the government could conceal a device if they really wanted to... There may have been no crew at all, no passengers, just a military jet plane guided using the latest missile guiding technology to hit the WTC buildings. At 550 MPH that would be a piece of cake with our current technology.
God is always good!
I watched the second plane go in and I a) knew it was UAL and b) was pretty sure it was a 767 b ut I did have some question that it might have been a 737... Your other problem is that the second flight has been captured on several videos and yet another problem you have is the recorded conversation between the AA 11's flight attendent and AA's ground ops.
You knew no such thing. You only know what you saw, you have no way of knowing what plane that really was despite markings on it. It would be very easy to put a United logo on a military plane.
God is always good!
No, I have not. I have stated nothing of the kind. I go along with the real possibility that CHARGES were set, however, with the intent to bring the towers down........not that it, alone, brought it down. I believe other factors were likely present that enabled that. Given how the Towers collapsed, at the least YOU have to be able to show exactly WHERE those charges were set. Not to mention WHEN they were set and not to mention who, what, and from where those charges were activated. Prior to a prosecutor presenting evidence before a court of law, they first begin by analyzing and reviewing facts, data, and the evidence before them which leads them to certain conclusions. The types of evidence they have is either direct and/or circumstantial. Circumstantial evidence is direct evidence of a fact from which a person may reasonably infer the existence or non- existence of another fact. A person's guilt of a charged crime may be proven by circumstantial evidence, if that evidence, while not directly establishing guilt, gives rise to an inference of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The law draws no distinction between circumstantial evidence and direct evidence in terms of weight or importance. Either type of evidence may be enough to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, depending on the facts of the case as the jury finds them to be. I firmly believe in allowing others' good work and statements speak for myself, rather than reinventing the wheel. Therefore, the following, in part, adequately addresses and sums up only part of the problems with .gov's "investigations" and conclusions on this matter: 7. The FEMA investigation of the building collapses drew no meaningful conclusions. The subsequent investigation by NIST began with an open call for video and photographic evidence, because the relevant physical evidence (e.g., steel beams from the collapse zones) had already been scrapped. 8. Extensive and crucial sections of the Kean Commission's findings and consequent conclusions are based on uncorroborated interrogation reports channeled from captive government suspects. Examples include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalshibh, and Abu Zubaydah, who were never made available for questioning by the commissioners, staff, or any Kean Commission representative. a. Citizens lack subpoena enforcement power. b. The Administration generally is not honoring Freedom of Information Act requests. For example, the Justice Department chose to go to court rather than honor Sibel Edmonds' lawful, successful FOIA request. c. The Justice Department and FBI contend that key evidence sought by plaintiffs is either covered by the National Security Act and constitutes a related body of state secrets or must remain confidential due to ongoing cases and investigations.22 In the case of Sibel Edmonds, they have engaged in highly unusual after-the-fact classification of public testimony. d. Critical evidence has been destroyed.23 Recordings of Federal Aviation Administration ("FAA") controllers' accounts of September 11 events taped immediately after the attacks were later meticulously cut to shreds and thrown away, despite orders to save them for investigative reference (New York Times, 5/6/04). CIA and Congressional staff complained that the National Security Agency was needlessly destroying evidence related to US companies and citizens that could "perhaps redirect" the investigation (Boston Globe, 10/27/01). The editor of the nation's oldest firefighting magazine, Bill Manning, objected to the accelerated scrapping of World Trade Center rubble before investigators could determine the actual mechanics of the building collapse (Fire Engineering, 1/02) and in an angry editorial, called the government's investigation "a half-baked farce." At the end of October, 2004, a firefighter with the New York Fire Department as well as a Ground Zero recovery worker came forward to claim that the three of the four "black boxes" from the aircraft at Ground Zero were found during the clean-up work (Philadelphia Daily News, 10/28/04), contrary to the government's longstanding assertion that no trace of these devices was ever discovered, which assertion was reiterated in The 9/11 Commission Report (Ch. 1, fn. 76, p. 468). A full investigation would pursue this claim and locate this vital evidence of the attacks, if it still exists. e. Many of the aforementioned acts, coupled with the rapid confiscation and top-secret classification of other important evidence, suggest at best a blatant contempt for the normal prerequisites to a truthful and confidence-inspiring inquiry and at worst obstruction of justice. Such behavior inevitably undermines trust in government in related matters, such as the veracity of uncorroborated "confessions" from alleged 9/11 conspirators held at undisclosed locations for well over a year in some cases without formal charges being brought against them for the 9/11 murders. [i.e., Ramzi Binalshibh, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah.] f. Whistleblowers and elected officials who have called attention to these matters have been ignored, ridiculed, fired, threatened, subjected to gag orders, and harassed.24 We draw your attention in particular to the cases of Sibel Edmonds, Behrouz Sarshar, Robert Wright, Indira Singh, US Air Force Col. Steve Butler, and Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA). Such examples coincide with legal changes under the USA PATRIOT Act and other statutes and regulations, excessive classification orders, and constant invocation of a state of threat in the homeland. These factors have a powerful silencing effect on others who would come forward. g. Officials and military officers associated with the "failures" of investigation and defense response have not been held accountable; on the contrary, several of them have been confirmed in elevated positions, given awards or promoted following September 11. We draw your attention in particular to the cases of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Richard Myers, Gen. Ralph Eberhart (Commander of NORAD on 9/11/01), Brig. Gen. Montague Winfield (director of the National Military Command Center), FBI officials David Frasca, Marion Bowman, Michael Maltbie and an unnamed FBI official alleged to have tolerated penetration by foreign agents at the Bureau's translations department (CBS News, 8/8/04). h. In the Swiss Re suit against Larry Silverstein, the owner of World Trade Center Building 7 and of a 99-year lease on the entire World Trade Center complex, the insurance company's motions for access to foreign conspirators' statements (obtained by the Kean Commission) were denied. i. Members of the major media clearly have been afraid and/or loath to examine the contradictions and anomalies implicit in the Administration's official 9/11 story.25 Sensational, simplistic and relentless coverage of the attacks and ensuing wars based on the official narrative also proved so profitable for media news divisions that we may never see any serious skeptical investigation into its truth or legitimacy. Members of the mainstream press, by and large, have failed to note ample evidence of cover-ups relating to September 11, question official accounts like The 9/11 Commission Report despite its obvious omissions, distortions, and inconsistencies, pursue the unanswered questions and bodies of evidence cited in Part II of this Complaint and Petition, or even report on the stunning findings of the 9/11 Zogby Poll. j. Congress also has abdicated its responsibility to provide full oversight, conduct exhaustive investigations, provide a credible accounting or even hold in-depth hearings into the most important lines of inquiry put forward by the 9/11 Family Steering Committee. Congress has failed to examine the Kean Commision's questionable "findings of fact and circumstances" on which were based some of the most far-reaching reform recommendations ever proposed in US legislation. Nor has it pursued demands made by Minnesota Senator Mark Dayton for an investigation into NORAD's representations regarding air defense issues. k. The CIA has yet to release an internal report, based upon two years of work, on the September 11 events, which apparently attributes individual accountability for particular failures. The document was withheld until after the November 2, 2004 election and is still being withheld today, amid reports that the new CIA director, Porter Goss, wishes to remove sections "drawing conclusions about whether individual CIA officers should be held accountable for any failures" before releasing the report to the public (New York Times, 11/2/04). This is further indication that possible negligence or complicity on the part of individual officials is being hidden from public and Congressional scrutiny. l. The Justice Department also continues, months after its completion, to suppress "one last chapter" of the The 9/11 Commission Report, which reportedly deals with the "broadly inaccurate accounts provided by several civil and military officials about efforts to track and chase the hijacked aircraft on Sept. 11." (New York Times, 10/30/04). This action, if it occurred, provides further documentation of the US government's overall pattern of suppressing evidence pointing to individual accountability. An independent criminal investigation or impartial grand jury is therefore the only discernible source of redress remaining to the People. source [same as cited above]
All very easy to manufacture with voice technology. They can get Osama to say what ever they want him to say, just as they can anyone else. Your problem is that 9/11 truth is coming out and government stooges will not have an easy life.
God is always good!
Please do not tell me what I know or do not know. Thanks.
Dude...are you really this much of a fucking moron? Why would you respond with unsourced, paraonoia based stupidity knowing that you were going to get resoundingly bitch slapped? Stick to what you can prove not what you ***think***. Your problem is that 9/11 truth is coming out Hardly apparent from anything you Bats have posted on this thread.
More babble...says you with no proof.
By the way...the collapse did not begin when the top fell...the collapse began at the below the top when it could no longer support the top...
I just posted a short summary that was submitted to the then Attorney General of New York, requesting a grand jury be convened. That is all the "proof" one normally needs to present before a grand jury. .gov won't allow any kind of independent investigation go forward. Prove that otherwise.
excellent post
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
ty, Indie.
So says the guy that thinks two airplanes and some kerosene can bring three skyscrapers straight down. That is the epitome of stupidity.
God is always good!
Sucks for you, asshole, that it isn't what I **think**. But it does sum up all of your problems quite succinctly. You HAVE to LIE.
Wha...huh? You want me to prove a negative? ROFLMAO...
Only if his intent was to use up bandwidth.
Dude...are you really this much of a fucking moron? So says the guy that thinks two airplanes and some kerosene can bring three skyscrapers straight down. We should guide him back to 477 so he learns not to be so obvious with his shilling. No I did not ping him because he is BOZOD.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
More babble...says you with no proof. Prove that otherwise. Wha...huh? You want me to prove a negative? ROFLMAO... yeah. Quite hilarious how you distract, distort, obfuscate, and lie.
Yet, oddly, youe've yet to show where I have distracted, distorted, obsfuscated and lied. On the other hand, I have shown where all of you have. E.G: OI claiming that I said that the core didn't exist. Claims that there was no passenger list released with Arab names. Claims that the WTC was designed to take the full speed impact of a 707. Claims that gravity doesn't make things fall straight down [THAT was and is a REAL hoot.] Claims that the WTC was steel frame rather than hollow tube construction. Claims that the outer walls were NOT load bearing. Claims that there were little to no fires. Claims that the outer wall has hardly damaged. Claims that the collapse started with the top section. Claims that I DIDN'T see a UAL jetliner fly into WTC1. You folks are a real hoot.
Good...my world is a much better place now...
You saw what appeared to be a UAL plane hit a WTC tower. That is different from KNOWING it was a UAL plane. You claimed you knew it was a UAL plane. Your eye witness testimony from the ground is NOT proof of ANYTHING.
God is always good!
I'm not going to bother with the rest of your post; it's not worth my time. However, as to your lie, the following serves as just one example: My posting history on this forum is quite limited; my posting on this subject in this forum, even moreso...as a matter of fact, it's limited to just this thread. Yet, you state I made a claim I never uttered. That is a lie, but more than that, it is also a distortion and exaggeration. You were already once corrected on this.
Regardless whether they were designed for that or not, they did take full seed impacts from jet airplanes and stood with no problems until they blew them up.
God is always good!
War is probably a spook. This forum is quite famous among them, even though it is much smaller than some other sites because they know the average IQ here is about 147. That makes us a threat imo. The next time you see some website advertising a "new continental congress" or some such crap asking you to join, rest assured it is a CIA name gathering tool.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
Give it up...
Lie. 9/11 UAL 175 Plane on Radar AFTER It Has 'Crashed' Into The WTC; (MSNBC) (#479) War thinks the WTC towers were not steel framed. I kid you not! (#24) [Full Thread] ~snip~ As for your protestations regarding me characterizing you as a supporter of controlled demolition, you gave 0 choice once you reject the fact that a plane's impact and the ensuing explosion and fires caused a catastrophica failure of the buildings load bearing capabilities, it's all you have left. As for you claiming that I've lied...feel free to post a link to thwere I claimed this: Anyways........now we're back to fuel that caused it.........that MAGIKAL fuel!! litus posted on 2009-03-18 22:14:41 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
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#487. To: SKYDRIFTER (#482)
The "remote control" debate fails the smell-test, from the very beginning.
No place is better than Turtle Island.
#488. To: litus (#479)
For nearly each and every one of your defenses, there are things that don't add up. There are coincidences too great in number to be dismissed.
#489. To: Original_Intent (#477)
#490. To: Original_Intent (#477)
#491. To: Kamala (#486)
Everything about WTC 1-2 collapse according to the official NIST Report rests on one unproven scenario only, that ALL the SFRM/fireproofing was blown or removed from the impact floors by the aircraft.
#492. To: war (#488)
you're relying on your SAY SO.
#493. To: CHRISTINE (#469)
(Edited)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#494. To: IndieTX (#470)
#495. To: IndieTX (#493)
#496. To: litus (#492)
#497. To: SKYDRIFTER (#482)
Take the speed up to 300 knots & no remote control pilot could do it. Add that no such camera would go undetected by maintenance or the pilots.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#498. To: SKYDRIFTER, all (#484)
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#499. To: SKYDRIFTER (#482)
(Edited)
Take the speed up to 300 knots & no remote control pilot could do it. Add that no such camera would go undetected by maintenance or the pilots.
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#500. To: FormerLurker (#497)
(Edited)
Needless to say, if a cruise missile can hit its target, so can a larger and slower aircraft.
#501. To: RickyJ (#500)
#502. To: war (#501)
(Edited)
I watched the second plane go in and I a) knew it was UAL
#503. To: war (#496)
You CLAIM that all was brought down by controlled demolitions.
"Direct evidence is evidence of a fact based on a witness's personal knowledge or observation of that fact. A person's guilt of a charged crime may be proven by direct evidence if, standing alone, that evidence satisfies a jury beyond a reasonable doubt of the person's guilt of that crime.
In the instant case, there appears to be both direct and circumstantial evidence that can easily refute the claims put forth by .gov. Also in the instant case, it is .gov that is and has been withholding information and/or obstructing the flow of information, to those outside the government. Therefore, the scenario is akin to the fox watching the henhouse. This does not lead to believing statements and proclamations made by the fox. There has been no independent investigations. 6. All formal investigations have started with the premise that the "official story" presents an accurate, objective outline of relevant events on and preceding 9/11. This is assumed to be the case despite the rapid accumulation of evidence that the official accounts (some of which contradict each other) cannot possibly explain the events as they transpired. The effect of this unwarranted presumption has been to exclude critical lines of inquiry and bodies of evidence from the outset.
The following is a good summary of the difficulties, governmental obstruction, and/or problems which have caused citizens the inability to better investigate, and thereby, be able to hold government to account for its malfeasance, suppression of information, or answering any kind of interrogatories:Tools available to citizens have not worked or are not sufficient to the requirements of getting at key facts in this complex case:
If .gov has nothing to hide, and if their story isn't fantastical fiction, there should have been criminal investigations, people should be in jail, information more forthcoming, independent investigations should have been welcomed, and the evidence it presented in the dog and pony show 9/11 Commission, more compelling. However, it is not; .gov has failed. The result: at least 1/3 of all Americans disbelieve its conclusions and statements, despite the fact that the media has excelled at supporting the .gov propaganda.
#504. To: war (#501)
Your other problem is that the second flight has been captured on several videos and yet another problem you have is the recorded conversation between the AA 11's flight attendent and AA's ground ops.
#505. To: RickyJ (#502)
You knew no such thing.
#506. To: RickyJ (#504)
All very easy to manufacture with voice technology...
#507. To: litus (#503)
In the instant case, there appears to be both direct and circumstantial evidence that can easily refute the claims put forth by .gov. Also in the instant case, it is .gov that is and has been withholding information and/or obstructing the flow of information, to those outside the government. Therefore, the scenario is akin to the fox watching the henhouse. This does not lead to believing statements and proclamations made by the fox. There has [sic] been no independent investigations.
#508. To: IndieTX (#471)
#509. To: war (#507)
#510. To: litus (#503)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#511. To: IndieTX (#510)
#512. To: war (#506)
(Edited)
Dude...are you really this much of a fucking moron?
#513. To: RickyJ (#512)
So says the guy that thinks two airplanes and some kerosene can bring three skyscrapers straight down.
#514. To: litus (#509)
Prove that otherwise.
#515. To: IndieTX (#510)
excellent post
#516. To: RickyJ, original_intent (#512)
(Edited)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#517. To: war (#514)
In the instant case, there appears to be both direct and circumstantial evidence that can easily refute the claims put forth by .gov. Also in the instant case, it is .gov that is and has been withholding information and/or obstructing the flow of information, to those outside the government. Therefore, the scenario is akin to the fox watching the henhouse. This does not lead to believing statements and proclamations made by the fox. There has [sic] been no independent investigations.
#518. To: litus (#517)
yeah. Quite hilarious how you distract, distort, obfuscate, and lie.
#519. To: IndieTX (#516)
#520. To: war (#513)
#521. To: war (#518)
youe've yet to show where I have distracted, distorted, obsfuscated and lied.
#522. To: war (#518)
(Edited)
Claims that the WTC was designed to take the full speed impact of a 707.
#523. To: RickyJ, christine (#522)
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#524. To: RickyJ (#522)
Regardless whether they were designed for that or not, they did take full seed impacts from jet airplanes and stood with no problems.
#525. To: litus (#521)
My posting history on this forum is quite limited; my posting on this subject in this forum, even moreso...as a matter of fact, it's limited to just this thread.
[Full Thread] Post Date: 2009-03-21 00:22:14 From: litus To: war
Post Date: 2009-03-20 13:03:35 From: litus To: war
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