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Title: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
Source:
whatreallyhappened.com
URL Source: http://whatreallyhappened.com/conte ... world-trade-center-catastrophe
Published: Apr 5, 2009
Author: whatreallyhappened.com
Post Date: 2009-04-05 01:25:36 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: 9/11, 911, Thermite, WTC Collapses
Views: 10049
Comments: 690
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic. Webmaster's Commentary: Folks, this is a major story and will be totally ignored by ABCNNBBCBS. This is a peer-reviewed report in a science journal which confirms the presence of a manufactured material consisting of tiny flakes of aluminum metal coated with iron oxide discovered at four different locations in the wreckage of the World Trade Center. Aluminum and iron oxide, mixed equally by weight, is the classic recipe for thermite. This material is very fine, increasing its burn speed, and apparently has some additional components (besides the very fine granular size) which lower the ignition temperature. This report directly contradicts the official government claim that there was no trace of internal explosives in the ruins of the World Trade Center. See Thermite and the WTC Collapses Posted on Apr 04, 2009 at 07:49 Tags: * 911
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#1. To: TwentyTwelve (#0)
CONCLUSIONS(from the original paper) We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in significant numbers in dust associated with the World Trade Center destruction. We have applied SEM/XEDS and other methods to characterize the small-scale structure and chemical signature of these chips, especially of their red component. The red material is most interesting and has the following characteristics: 1. It is composed of aluminum, iron, oxygen, silicon and carbon. Lesser amounts of other potentially reactive elements are sometimes present, such as potassium, sulfur, lead, barium and copper. 2. The primary elements (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) are typically all present in particles at the scale of tens to hundreds of nanometers, and detailed XEDS mapping shows intimate mixing. 3. On treatment with methyl ethyl ketone solvent, some segregation of components occurred. Elemental aluminum became sufficiently concentrated to be clearly identified in the pre-ignition material. 4. Iron oxide appears in faceted grains roughly 100 nm across whereas the aluminum appears in thin platelike structures. The small size of the iron oxide particles qualifies the material to be characterized as nanothermite or super-thermite. 5. Analysis shows that iron and oxygen are present in a ratio consistent with Fe2O3. The red material in all four WTC dust samples was similar in this way. Iron oxide was found in the pre-ignition material whereas elemental iron was not. 6. From the presence of elemental aluminum and iron oxide in the red material, we conclude that it contains the ingredients of thermite. 7. As measured using DSC, the material ignites and reacts vigorously at a temperature of approximately 430 °C, with a rather narrow exotherm, matching fairly closely an independent observation on a known super-thermite sample. The low temperature of ignition and the presence of iron oxide grains less than 120 nm show that the material is not conventional thermite (which ignites at temperatures above 900 °C) but very likely a form of super-thermite. 8. After igniting several red/gray chips in a DSC run to 700 °C, we found numerous iron-rich spheres and spheroids in the residue, indicating that a very hightemperature reaction had occurred, since the iron-rich product clearly must have been molten to form these shapes. In several spheres, elemental iron was verified since the iron content significantly exceeded the oxygen content. We conclude that a high-temperature reduction-oxidation reaction has occurred in the heated chips, namely, the thermite reaction. 9. The spheroids produced by the DSC tests and by the flame test have an XEDS signature (Al, Fe, O, Si, C) which is depleted in carbon and aluminum relative to the original red material. This chemical signature strikingly matches the chemical signature of the spheroids produced by igniting commercial thermite, and also matches the signatures of many of the microspheres found in the WTC dust [5]. 10. The carbon content of the red material indicates that an organic substance is present. This would be expected for super-thermite formulations in order to produce high gas pressures upon ignition and thus make them explosive. The nature of the organic material in these chips merits further exploration. We note that it is likely also an energetic material, in that the total energy release sometimes observed in DSC tests exceeds the theoretical maximum energy of the classic thermite reaction. Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.
Link to paper: need adobe acrobat to view. http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php? TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
ping.
Putting aside the absolutely incredulous nature of that statement, where was this Manhattan resident? two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. From where?
Why is it incredulous? Aren't you interested in knowing all the reasons why these magnificient buildings whose plans were passed with flying colors by the PTB had such an Achilles Heel? And who knows.... maybe that Manhattan resident was already making plans for his next big sale.
I saved some dust off a stone wall outside a church a block away from ground zero a week after 9/11. I put it in a bag and tossed it in my car, but then I forgot about it being under the seat. I sold the car a month or so later, and now I regret not having that dust. It was remarkable stuff, about 3/4" thick on the stone wall and came off in chunks.
#2. To: All (#1)
#3. To: wudidiz, Original_Intent, Rotara (#1)
#4. To: TwentyTwelve (#0)
One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower...
#5. To: war (#4)
Putting aside the absolutely incredulous nature of that statement, where was this Manhattan resident?
#6. To: war (#4)
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
#7. To: mininggold (#5)
Spoken like someone not there.
Why is it incredulous?
#8. To: mininggold (#5)
The Achilles heel being planes impacting at over 400MPH, exploding and then multi floor fires burning out of control? Chyea...whoda thought? Obviously not the people who sent the planes into the buildings...
Aren't you interested in knowing all the reasons why these magnificient buildings whose plans were passed with flying colors by the PTB had such an Achilles Heel?
#9. To: war (#8)
war! What is it good for ... absolutely nothin'.
#10. To: Critter (#6)
If you were within a block of GZ a week afterward, you're either FDNY, FEMA, NYPD or NG... I got back into 1 Liberty on 9/20 and was escorted by a member of the US Army into the Lobby whereupon an NYPD took me up to my floor.
I saved some dust off a stone wall outside a church a block away from ground zero a week after 9/11.
#11. To: war (#8)
Yeah, and just moments before the collapse, a veteran battalion chief who would know what to look for if danger was present, calls down:
and then multi floor fires burning out of control?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
#12. To: TwentyTwelve (#0)
Aluminum and rust. I used to make "thermite" when I was a kid by mixing powered alunimum and rust. Ihad to set if off with a Fourth of July sparkler since a match didn't work. The stuff would be all over any building rubble and has nothing to do with "thermite."
Aluminum and iron oxide
Dancing Turtles and Bouncing Boobs...that's Turtle Island.
#13. To: war (#10)
Neither. Maybe it was a block and a half. It was 2:00am and a friend an I walked all around the perimeter trying to get a look at it. I did a lot of security work at OLP back in the 80's. Is Walter Vianello still in the corp. security dept at ML?
If you were within a block of GZ a week afterward, you're either FDNY, FEMA, NYPD or NG...
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
#14. To: war (#8)
You don't know if that is the absolute only contributing cause and you know it. What do you have against thorough investigations?
The Achilles heel being planes impacting at over 400MPH, exploding and then multi floor fires burning out of control? Chyea...whoda thought? Obviously not the people who sent the planes into the buildings...
#15. To: Critter (#13)
Maybe it was Canal Street...you were not "walking around" anywhere near GZ @ 2AM...Wall Street was open up from the NY Waterway from 7AM to 5PM but there were full body armor guards all the way up and then on Broadway you walked an absolute phalanx of US Army, National Guard and NYPD. Is Walter Vianello still in the corp. security dept at ML? Merrill Lynch doesn't exist any more and I don't know what OLP is...
Neither. Maybe it was a block and a half. It was 2:00am and a friend an I walked all around the perimeter trying to get a look at it.
#16. To: mininggold (#14)
Gravity armed force dynamics helped.
You don't know if that is the absolute only contributing cause and you know it.
#17. To: war (#10)
THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes. Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al- Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis - and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA. Their discovery and arrest that morning is a matter of indisputable fact. To those who have investigated just what the Israelis were up to that day, the case raises one dreadful possibility: that Israeli intelligence had been shadowing the al- Qaeda hijackers as they moved from the Middle East through Europe and into America where they trained as pilots and prepared to suicide- bomb the symbolic heart of the United States. And the motive? To bind America in blood and mutual suffering to the Israeli cause. After the attacks on New York and Washington, the former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was asked what the terrorist strikes would mean for US-Israeli relations. He said: "It's very good." Then he corrected himself, adding: "Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy [for Israel from Americans]." If Israel's closest ally felt the collective pain of mass civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists, then Israel would have an unbreakable bond with the world's only hyperpower and an effective free hand in dealing with the Palestinian terrorists who had been murdering its innocent civilians as the second intifada dragged on throughout 2001. It's not surprising that the New Jersey housewife who first spotted the five Israelis and their white van wants to preserve her anonymity. She's insisted that she only be identified as Maria. A neighbour in her apartment building had called her just after the first strike on the Twin Towers. Maria grabbed a pair of binoculars and, like millions across the world, she watched the horror of the day unfold. As she gazed at the burning towers, she noticed a group of men kneeling on the roof of a white van in her parking lot. Here's her recollection: "They seemed to be taking a movie. They were like happy, you know ... they didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was strange." Maria jotted down the van's registration and called the police. The FBI was alerted and soon there was a statewide all points bulletin put out for the apprehension of the van and its occupants. The cops traced the number, establishing that it belonged to a company called Urban Moving. Police Chief John Schmidig said: "We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up and down." By 4pm on the afternoon of September 11, the van was spotted near New Jersey's Giants stadium. A squad car pulled it over and inside were five men in their 20s. They were hustled out of the car with guns levelled at their heads and handcuffed. In the car was $4700 in cash, a couple of foreign passports and a pair of box cutters - the concealed Stanley Knife-type blades used by the 19 hijackers who'd flown jetliners into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon just hours before. There were also fresh pictures of the men standing with the smouldering wreckage of the Twin Towers in the background. One image showed a hand flicking a lighter in front of the devastated buildings, like a fan at a pop concert. The driver of the van then told the arresting officers: "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem." His name was Sivan Kurzberg. The other four passengers were Kurzberg's brother Paul, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were dragged off to prison and transferred out of the custody of the FBI's Criminal Division and into the hands of their Foreign Counterintelligence Section - the bureau's anti-espionage squad. A warrant was issued for a search of the Urban Moving premises in Weehawken in New Jersey. Boxes of papers and computers were removed. The FBI questioned the firm's Israeli owner, Dominik Otto Suter, but when agents returned to re-interview him a few days later, he was gone. An employee of Urban Moving said his co-workers had laughed about the Manhattan attacks the day they happened. "I was in tears," the man said. "These guys were joking and that bothered me. These guys were like, 'Now America knows what we go through.'" Vince Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counter- terrorism with the CIA, says the red flag went up among investigators when it was discovered that some of the Israelis' names were found in a search of the national intelligence database. Cannistraro says many in the US intelligence community believed that some of the Israelis were working for Mossad and there was speculation over whether Urban Moving had been "set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists". This makes it clear that there was no suggestion whatsoever from within American intelligence that the Israelis were colluding with the 9/11 hijackers - simply that the possibility remains that they knew the attacks were going to happen, but effectively did nothing to help stop them. After the owner vanished, the offices of Urban Moving looked as if they'd been closed down in a big hurry. Mobile phones were littered about, the office phones were still connected and the property of at least a dozen clients were stacked up in the warehouse. The owner had cleared out his family home in New Jersey and returned to Israel. Two weeks after their arrest, the Israelis were still in detention, held on immigration charges. Then a judge ruled that they should be deported. But the CIA scuppered the deal and the five remained in custody for another two months. Some went into solitary confinement, all underwent two polygraph tests and at least one underwent up to seven lie detector sessions before they were eventually deported at the end of November 2001. Paul Kurzberg refused to take a lie detector test for 10 weeks, but then failed it. His lawyer said he was reluctant to take the test as he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country. Nevertheless, their lawyer, Ram Horvitz, dismissed the allegations as "stupid and ridiculous". Yet US government sources still maintained that the Israelis were collecting information on the fundraising activities of groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mark Regev, of the Israeli embassy in Washington, would have none of that and he said the allegations were "simply false". The men themselves claimed they'd read about the World Trade Centre attacks on the internet, couldn't see it from their office and went to the parking lot for a better view. Their lawyers and the embassy say their ghoulish and sinister celebrations as the Twin Towers blazed and thousands died were due to youthful foolishness. The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they "did not know anything about 9/11". Back in Israel, several of the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One of them made this remarkable comment: "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." But how can you document an event unless you know it is going to happen? We are now deep in conspiracy theory territory. But there is more than a little circumstantial evidence to show that Mossad - whose motto is "By way of deception, thou shalt do war" - was spying on Arab extremists in the USA and may have known that September 11 was in the offing, yet decided to withhold vital information from their American counterparts which could have prevented the terror attacks. Following September 11, 2001, more than 60 Israelis were taken into custody under the Patriot Act and immigration laws. One highly placed investigator told Carl Cameron of Fox News that there were "tie-ins" between the Israelis and September 11; the hint was clearly that they'd gathered intelligence on the planned attacks but kept it to themselves. The Fox News source refused to give details, saying: "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." Fox News is not noted for its condemnation of Israel; it's a ruggedly patriotic news channel owned by Rupert Murdoch and was President Bush's main cheerleader in the war on terror and the invasion of Iraq. Another group of around 140 Israelis were detained prior to September 11, 2001, in the USA as part of a widespread investigation into a suspected espionage ring run by Israel inside the USA. Government documents refer to the spy ring as an "organised intelligence-gathering operation" designed to "penetrate government facilities". Most of those arrested had served in the Israeli armed forces - but military service is compulsory in Israel. Nevertheless, a number had an intelligence background. The first glimmerings of an Israeli spying exercise in the USA came to light in spring 2001, when the FBI sent a warning to other federal agencies alerting them to be wary of visitors calling themselves "Israeli art students" and attempting to bypass security at federal buildings in order to sell paintings. A Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report suggested the Israeli calls "may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity". Law enforcement documents say that the Israelis "targeted and penetrated military bases" as well as the DEA, FBI and dozens of government facilities, including secret offices and the unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel. A number of Israelis questioned by the authorities said they were students from Bezalel Academy of Art and Design, but Pnina Calpen, a spokeswoman for the Israeli school, did not recognise the names of any Israelis mentioned as studying there in the past 10 years. A federal report into the so-called art students said many had served in intelligence and electronic signal intercept units during their military service. According to a 61-page report, drafted after an investigation by the DEA and the US immigration service, the Israelis were organised into cells of four to six people. The significance of what the Israelis were doing didn't emerge until after September 11, 2001, when a report by a French intelligence agency noted "according to the FBI, Arab terrorists and suspected terror cells lived in Phoenix, Arizona, as well as in Miami and Hollywood, Florida, from December 2000 to April 2001 in direct proximity to the Israeli spy cells". The report contended that Mossad agents were spying on Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehi, two of leaders of the 9/11 hijack teams. The pair had settled in Hollywood, Florida, along with three other hijackers, after leaving Hamburg - where another Mossad team was operating close by. Hollywood in Florida is a town of just 25,000 souls. The French intelligence report says the leader of the Mossad cell in Florida rented apartments "right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi". More than a third of the Israeli "art students" claimed residence in Florida. Two other Israelis connected to the art ring showed up in Fort Lauderdale. At one time, eight of the hijackers lived just north of the town. Put together, the facts do appear to indicate that Israel knew that 9/11, or at least a large-scale terror attack, was about to take place on American soil, but did nothing to warn the USA. But that's not quite true. In August 2001, the Israelis handed over a list of terrorist suspects - on it were the names of four of the September 11 hijackers. Significantly, however, the warning said the terrorists were planning an attack "outside the United States". The Israeli embassy in Washington has dismissed claims about the spying ring as "simply untrue". The same denials have been issued repeatedly by the five Israelis seen high-fiving each other as the World Trade Centre burned in front of them. Their lawyer, Ram Horwitz, insisted his clients were not intelligence officers. Irit Stoffer, the Israeli foreign minister, said the allegations were "completely untrue". She said the men were arrested because of "visa violations", adding: "The FBI investigated those cases because of 9/11." Jim Margolin, an FBI spokesman in New York, implied that the public would never know the truth, saying: "If we found evidence of unauthorised intelligence operations that would be classified material." Yet, Israel has long been known, according to US administration sources, for "conducting the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any US ally". Seventeen years ago, Jonathan Pollard, a civilian working for the American Navy, was jailed for life for passing secrets to Israel. At first, Israel claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but the government later took responsibility for his work. It has always been a long-accepted agreement among allies - such as Britain and America or America and Israel - that neither country will jail a "friendly spy" nor shame the allied country for espionage. Chip Berlet, a senior analyst at Boston's Political Research Associates and an expert in intelligence, says: "It's a backdoor agreement between allies that says that if one of your spies gets caught and didn't do too much harm, he goes home. It goes on all the time. The official reason is always visa violation." What we are left with, then, is fact sullied by innuendo. Certainly, it seems, Israel was spying within the borders of the United States and it is equally certain that the targets were Islamic extremists probably linked to September 11. But did Israel know in advance that the Twin Towers would be hit and the world plunged into a war without end; a war which would give Israel the power to strike its enemies almost without limit? That's a conspiracy theory too far, perhaps. But the unpleasant feeling that, in this age of spin and secrets, we do not know the full and unadulterated truth won't go away. Maybe we can guess, but it's for the history books to discover and decide. WTF was the celebration about?
Five Israelis were seen filming from the van on the right as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001. Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?
#18. To: war (#15)
You don't know what OLP is? LMAO!!!!! You worked there, supposedly. Everyone who worked at One Liberty Plaza refers to it as OLP.
I don't know what OLP is
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
#19. To: Critter (#11)
One floor which was below impact is indicative of the rest including the impact zone? How many more pictures of flames shooting out of WTC must I post before you folks get it?
#20. To: Critter (#18)
Actually, no...most of us called it "One Liberty"...some called it "Old Merrill Lynch..."
Everyone who worked at One Liberty Plaza refers to it as OLP.
#21. To: war (#19)
TAKE A LOOK AT THESE PICTURES OF THE BUILDINGS ON FIRE! How many more pictures of flames shooting out of WTC must I post before you folks get it?
#22. To: war (#19)
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bombs_inside_wtc.html ‘BOMBS INSIDE WTC’ FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH rss202 By Victor Thorn NEW YORK CITY, N.Y.—On the morning of Sept. 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. asserted, yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too,” said Isaac. The ramifications of this statement are immense: One of New York’s own firefighters says publicly that 9-11 couldn’t have been the work of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated and executed by elements within our own government. He also added, after pointing to throngs of police officers standing around us, that, “We all have to be very careful about how we handle it.” Isaac reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told this journalist during our protest at Ground Zero on Sept. 11, 2005—that emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the World Trade Center towers. Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York. “It’s amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11. There is more information related to Isaac circulating in on-line and print reports, so here again we are hearing first-hand evidence from individuals who were on the scene, such as live witness William Rodriguez, saying that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the airliner’s impact or the resulting jet fuel fires, but instead by a deliberately executed controlled demolition. Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story. Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC “open grave site” on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: “I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes.”
before you folks get it?
#23. To: TwentyTwelve (#21)
Yea so? Neither of them were constructed as WTC was...y7ou may as well be showing me Santa's Workshop... BTW, this is at least the 5th time that has been pointed out to you.
#24. To: war (#19)
According to the Journal of Australian Fire Investigators, kerosene ignites at around 444°F. The temperature that the fire will eventually reach depends on both the combustion rate (based on O2) and the rate at which heat can be disbursed in the given scenario. Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived. Again, please contact professionals to verify this if you wish. In an oxygen deprived environment, higher temperatures cannot be reached. You can test this yourself by comparing a match in the open vs. a match in a bottle with a very small hole. T.C. Forensic: Article 10 - PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORSbefore you folks get it?
PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORS. by Tony Cafe. Reproduced from "Firepiont" magazine - Journal of Australian Fire Investigators. ...
www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html - 69k -
#25. To: TwentyTwelve (#22)
There's no gag order.
Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.
#26. To: war (#23)
------------------------------------------------------------------ http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html The Core Structures The Structural System of the Twin Towers Each tower was supported by a structural core extending from its bedrock foundation to its roof. The cores were rectangular pillars with numerous large columns and girders, measuring 87 feet by 133 feet. The core structures housed the elevators, stairs, and other services. The cores had their own flooring systems, which were structurally independent of the floor diaphragms that spanned the space between the cores and the perimeter walls. The core structures, like the perimeter wall structures, were 100 percent steel-framed. Reports on the number of core columns vary from 44 to 47. The exact arrangement of the columns is not known due to the secrecy of detailed engineering drawings of the towers. It is clear from photographs, such as the one on the right, that the core columns were abundantly cross-braced. Establishing the true nature of the core structures is of great importance given that the most widely read document on the World Trade Center attack -- the 9/11 Commission Report -- denies their very existence, claiming the towers' cores were "hollow steel shaft[s]:" For the dimensions, see FEMA report, "World Trade Center Building Performance Study," undated. In addition, the outside of each tower was covered by a frame of 14-inch-wide steel columns; the centers of the steel columns were 40 inches apart. These exterior walls bore most of the weight of the building. The interior core of the buildings was a hollow steel shaft, in which elevators and stairwells were grouped. Ibid. For stairwells and elevators, see Port Authority response to Commission interrogatory, May 2004. 1 column base The top illustration indicates what may have been typical dimensions and thickness of the smaller core columns, about half-way up the tower. The outermost rows of core columns were apparently considerably larger, measuring 54 inches wide. Columns The core columns were steel box-columns that were continuous for their entire height, going from their bedrock anchors in the sub-basements to near the towers' tops, where they transitioned to H-beams. Apparently the box columns, more than 1000 feet long, were built as the towers rose by welding together sections several stories tall. The sections were fabricated by mills in Japan that were uniquely equipped to produce the large pieces. 2 Some of the core columns apparently had outside dimensions of 36 inches by 16 inches. Others had larger dimensions, measuring 52 inches by 22 inches. 3 The core columns were oriented so that their longer dimensions were perpendicular to the core structures' longer, 133-foot-wide sides. Construction photographs found at the Skyscraper Museum in New York City indicate that the outermost rows of core columns on the cores' longer sides were of the larger dimensions. Both the FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study and the NIST's Draft Report on the Twin Towers fail to disclose the dimensions of the core columns, and the NIST Report implies that only the four core columns on each core's corners had larger dimensions. Like the perimeter columns -- and like steel columns in all tall buildings -- the thickness of the steel in the core columns tapered from bottom to top. Near the bottoms of the towers the steel was four inches thick, whereas near the tops it may have been as little as 1/4th inch thick. The top figure in the illustration to the right is a cross-section of one of the smaller core columns from about half-way up a tower, where the steel was about two inches thick. The bottom figure shows the base of one of the larger core columns, where the steel was five inches thick. The bases of the columns also had slabs of steel running through their centers, making them almost solid. Column Arrangement The exact arrangement of the columns and how they were cross-braced is not apparent from public documents such as FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study. The arrangement of box columns depicted in Figure 2-10 of Chapter 2 (pictured to the right) seems plausible, even though it contradicts other illustrations in the report showing a more random arrangement. It depicts the top floors of a tower and does not indicate the widths of the columns on a typical floor. Cross-Bracing Construction photographs show that the core columns were connected to each other at each floor by large square girders and I-beams about two feet deep. The debris photograph below shows what appears to be one of the smaller core columns surrounded by perpendicular I-beams approximately three feet deep. In addition, the tops of core structures were further connected by the sloping beams of the hat truss structures. This photograph from Ground Zero is apparently of one of the smaller core columns connected to a set of I-beams. This image from the documentary Up From Zero shows the base of a core column, whose dimensions, minus the four flanges, are apparently 52 by 22 inches, with walls at least 5 inches thick. References 1. 9-11 Commission Report; NOTES; Chapter 9 Heroism and Horror; Note 1, 9-11Commission.gov, 2. APPENDIX B: Structural Steel and Steel Connections, FEMA.gov, 2002 3. World's Tallest Towers Begin to Show Themselves on New York City Skyline, Engineering News Record, 1/1/1970 BTW, this is at least the 5th time that has been pointed out to you.
9-11 Research: The Core Structures
structural cores of the World Trade Center Twin Towers,core columns.
911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html - 23k -
#27. To: war (#19)
Do you know anything about how steel conducts heat? At the moment of collapse, there were isolated pockets of fire, and any heat that had been applied to the steel during the hottest periods of fire would have already been wicked off into the tons of above the fire zones. The steel was in the process of cooling when the collapse initiated. A veteran battalion chief would have certainly been on the alert for danger signs and would have noted any extreme deformation, sagging of floors, or sounds that indicated that collapse was eminent, or even possible..
How many more pictures of flames shooting out of WTC must I post before you folks get it?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009
#28. To: war (#25)
Prove it.
There's no gag order.
#29. To: TwentyTwelve (#24)
OUtright lie...any fireman will tell you that smoke is an indication of WHAT IS BURNING...ande it's fucking hilarious, given the GAPING holes in WTC to believe that anything was O2 deprived...
Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived
#30. To: TwentyTwelve (#28)
FUck you...prove that there is...in fact. I;ve asked you to prove all of your nonsense. To date you've responded 0 times.
#31. To: war (#19)
911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/blueprints.html Tower Blueprints - Surviving Evidence of the World Trade Center Attack The blueprints to the Twin Towers and Building 7 remained off-limits to the public for more than five years after the attack, despite the fact that the buildings were built with public money and that the engineering drawings of public buildings are supposed to be public information. 1 Incredibly, the team of engineers from the ASCE that conducted the only investigation of the building "collapses" before Ground Zero had been cleaned up lacked access to the buildings' blueprints -- at least until they signed waivers that they would not use the evidence in a lawsuit against the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. 2 Whistleblower Releases Blueprints In March of 2007, an extensive set of detailed architectural drawings of the World Trade Center became public through the actions of a whistleblower. The 261 drawings included detailed plans for the North Tower (WTC 1), the World Trade Center foundation and basement, and the TV mast atop the North Tower. The set of drawings does not include plans for the other six buildings in the World Trade Center complex. However, since the Twin Towers were of almost identical construction, it is safe to assume that the the structural details that the drawings shown for the North Tower are largely applicable to the South Tower. The drawings contain a wealth of detail about the buildings, including the dimensions of structural members such as the core columns. Most of the drawings can be viewed in this multiresolution browser. This 66th floor core plan included in the detailed architectural drawings shows that most of the core columns retained their full outside dimensions well above the midpoints of the Towers. Of the sixteen columns bounding the long faces of the core, thirteen have outside dimensions of approximately 54 by 22 inches in this 66th floor section. Official Reports Misrepresented the Towers' Construction Portion of photograph in the collection of the Skyscraper Museum The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections. Based on construction photographs exhibited in the Skyscraper Museum and illustrations from the Engineering News Record , 9-11 Research had established by mid-2005 that, low in the Towers, the sixteen core columns that bounded the long faces of the buildings' cores had dimensions of 54 by 22 inches. The detailed drawings show that these columns maintained these dimensions through about the 66th floor. Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely. So effective was FEMA at concealing the nature of the cores that the 9/11 Commission Report , citing the FEMA Report, denied the very existence of the core columns. FEMA's Building Performance Study Figure 2-2 of of FEMA's Building Performance Study, labeled "Representative structural framing plan, upper floors", is one of five illustrations in the report that depict core columns. Each of these illustrations depicts the core columns at their minimum dimensions, and none depict them at their typical dimensions. In May of 2005, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) released its Building Performance Study, of which Chapter 2, "WTC 1 and WTC 2", was devoted to explaining the "collapse" of the Twin Towers. It advances the "truss theory" or "pancake theory", in which the supposed failure of floor-truss-to-column connections is the initiating event in a series of chain reactions ending in total collapse. Added commentary in our archived copy exposes many deceptive techniques employed in the article. 3 Key elements of FEMA's theory depend on misrepresentations of the Towers' construction made possible by their vague descriptions. For example, to explain other collapse of the core their Study states: As the floors collapsed, this left tall freestanding portions of the exterior wall and possibly central core columns. As the unsupported height of these freestanding exterior wall elements increased, they buckled at the bolted column splice connections, and also collapsed. Contrary to the FEMA's hedged assertion that the core columns were freestanding, construction photographs clearly show that large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel. FEMA's report seems crafted to hide the structural significance of the core columns, if not their very existence. Examples of features of the Report that minimize or conceal the core structures include: Figure D-13 from FEMA's Study, bearing the caption "WTC 1 or WTC 2 core column (C-74)", is the only photograph in the Study that shows an identified core column * The absence of any illustrations showing core columns of typical dimensions * The repeated use of the term "service core" to describe the cores, and avoidance of terminology describing their structural role * The use of illustrations that imply the cores didn't exist, such as Figure 2-20 * The only photograph of a core column in the Report (Figure D-13) being of an atypical column of very small dimensions * The inclusion of only floor plans that show core columns of very small dimensions with no clarification that the core columns that ran most of the Towers' heights were of much larger dimensions NIST's Final Report on the Twin Towers In 2005 NIST published its 'Final Report of the National Construction Safety Team on the Collapses of the World Trade Center Towers' -- a 280-page report that was extremely vague in a number of respects, including any description of the structural systems of the Towers. It contains very little information about the core columns, the following being one of the only passages describing them: Figure 3-3 From NIST's Final Report drastically misrepresents the dimensions of the core columns on the 78th through the 83rd floors. The 47 columns in this rectangular space were fabricated using primarily 36 ksi and 42 ksi steels and also decreased in size in the higher stories. The four massive corner columns bore nearly one-fifth of the total gravity load on the core columns. The passage implies that only the corner columns were "massive" when, in fact, the sixteen columns on the long faces of the cores shared the same dimensions for most of each Tower's height. Illustrations in the Report depict the core columns at the North and South Tower crash zones as being the same size, when in fact the core columns were much broader around the 80th floor than around the 95th. NIST's failure to highlight this difference is especially interesting in light of its estimates of core column damage in the Towers. Those esimates show 10 of the South Tower's core columns severed, compared to only 6 of the North Tower's. How could the South Tower's core have had more damage when its impact-level columns were twice as large as the North Tower's and it sustained only a glancing rather than a head-on impact? Was NIST struggling to explain how the South Tower succumbed to "global collapse" almost twice as quickly as the North Tower despite having much smaller fires? World Trade Center Master Plan This illustration from 'Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel' shows a structural system that matches the drawings in the MASTER PLAN. Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel Prior to the release of the detailed architectural drawings, 9-11 Research published the MASTER PLAN, dated December 16, 1963. The MASTER PLAN does not show structural details such as column dimensions, and shows an arrangement of core columns that was later changed. The obsolete core column arrangement indicated in the MASTER PLAN has been reproduced in other publications such as the book 'Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel'. 4 References 1. WTC surveillance tapes feared missing, AP, 12/10/02 [cached] 2. WTC Probe Ills Bared, Daily News, 3/7/02 [cached] 3. WTC 1 and WTC 2, FEMA.gov, 4. Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel, Second Edition, 1978
before you folks get it?
#32. To: Critter (#27)
You do need me to post the flames. Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.
At the moment of collapse, there were isolated pockets of fire
#33. To: war (#30)
You know you can't prove it.
FUck you...prove that there is...in fact. I;ve asked you to prove all of your nonsense. To date you've responded 0 times.
#34. To: war (#32)
The 1975 World Trade Center Fire The February 13, 1975 North Tower Fire has been carefully hidden from you. Here are a few reports concerning it. ----------------------------- Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.
The 1975 World Trade Center Fire
This 110-story steel-framed office building suffered a fire on the 11th floor on February 13, 1975. The loss was estimated at over $2000000. ...
www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_1975_fire.html - 9k -
#35. To: TwentyTwelve (#31)
Those "cross beams" were actually the trusses. Same old bullshit.
Contrary to the FEMA's hedged assertion that the core columns were freestanding, construction photographs clearly show that large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.
#36. To: war (#32)
Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.
www.prisonplanet.com/multimedia_
#37. To: TwentyTwelve (#34)
One floor...the 11th and there was no plane impact and explosiion and it diod not burn out of control... Same bullshit.
#38. To: war (#35)
prisonplanet.com/articles...06/260906_b_Animation.htm New WTC Animation: WTC Core 9/11 Blogger | September 26 2006 A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC. The building's backbone that NIST and FEMA ignored
#39. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)
Know what a 10-45 code one is?
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."
#40. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
Based upon what?
A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC
#41. To: war (#39)
Know what a 10-45 code one is? Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."
#42. To: TwentyTwelve (#41)
I know what it means, simp. I have FDNY as friends and relatives. It how I know that there is no gag order and it's how IN know that anyone using the bunker gear of their fallen comrades to make a buck is full of shit. BTW, there is no such thing as "active thermite material" that can be found in residue. When thermite is "active" its burning.
#43. To: TwentyTwelve (#33)
I can prove it far more easily than you can. I've posted numerous interviews of firemen's accounts of the day and YOU YOURSELF have posted transcripts of FDNY exchanges form that day. If there's a gag order, shit for brains, why are these out there in the public domain? There is also a documentary out there that was made AFTER 9/11 about FDNY and 9/11 in which NUMEROUS FDNY talk about their experiences. So, yea, consider yourself weighed and measured as the stupid piece of cow chip that you are.
You know you can't prove it.
#44. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
Based upon what?
A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.
#45. To: war (#43) (Edited)
Why does it appear you are personally invested in "proving" that .gov is honest to the American people (when it has proven itself otherwise), operates under the Rule of Law (when it has proven itself to act otherwise), beyond recriminations on any account concerning the events leading up to and concerning the day of 9/11 (which it has proven itself to be less than forthright and candid), and sets policies that are best for the American people and the country (which it, daily, proves it does otherwise: i.e., bailouts to banks, the Federal Reserve act, invasion by illegal aliens, NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.)? Which .gov entity is paying you?, is what I want to know.
#46. To: war (#43)
The only thing worse than a shill is a dumb shill.
If there's a gag order, shit for brains, why are these out there in the public domain?
#47. To: TwentyTwelve (#46)
Irony is obviously lost on you. That said, if there's a gag order, shit for brains, why are these out there in the public domain?
The only thing worse than a shill is a dumb shill.
#48. To: litus (#45)
Why would you take one instance and apply it universally? That asked, nothing that you Moonbats have posted has stood up to scrutiny.
Why does it appear you are personally invested in "proving" that .gov is honest to the American people
#49. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
Based upon what?
A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.
#50. To: war (#48) (Edited)
Speaking of painting with "broad brushes". It's obvious that if what you claim, and what .gov claims was "crystal clear" and completely forthright and could withstand scrutiny, there would not exist duplicity in .gov statements and commentary, an unwillingness to shine a light into .gov's actions, its employees' statements and behaviors, compelling testimony and evidence which contradicts .gov claims, contradictory statements made by .gov and .gov employees, rush to eliminate evidence from a crime scene, not a presumption of "cause" for the collapse...which led to absolutely no investigation of steel support structures of the WTC7, etc.
nothing that you Moonbats have posted has stood up to scrutiny.
#51. To: litus (#50)
So far it has depsite what your short wave radio talking head says - this week anyway. His and the other Jones' "theories" change so often it's hard keeping up with them... an unwillingness to shine a light into .gov's actions, its employees' statements and behaviors, compelling testimony and evidence which contradicts .gov claims, contradictory statements made by .gov and .gov employees, rush to eliminate evidence from a crime scene, not a presumption of "cause" for the collapse...which led to absolutely no investigation of steel support structures of the WTC7, etc. And this is what I Mean...that babble may ahve some code word meaning to you Moonies but it makes 0 sense syntactically or semantically to us normal folk...
It's obvious that if what you claim, and what .gov claims was "crystal clear" and completely forthright and could withstand scrutiny,
#52. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
Based upon what?
A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.
#53. To: war (#51)
And this is what I Mean...that babble may ahve some code word meaning to you Moonies but it makes 0 sense syntactically or semantically to us normal folk... That is why, I presume, you still have yet to answer the question I posed to you twice, now a third time: You're joking, right? You didn't just ask "why should a criminal investigation investigate the location and debris within and surrounding the area of a crime scene?" War: Nope. You are claiming that a controlled demo;lition occurred. To use one of your fellow Moonbat's phraseology...you can't even support he "effect" of a CD which makes your argument of "cause" moot. So, you are admitting that the investigation into the fire and collapse of a skyscraper, which could have led to the deaths of hundreds of people, began, at the outset, with the presumption that the CRIME SCENE was not, in fact, a crime scene. The authorities (police, FBI, CIA, etc.) ruled out a crime had occurred from the outset, prior to conducting any investigations, gathering evidence, and speaking to witnesses could have occurred. From the moment of the CRIME...it was deemed "accidental" in nature, and the authorities subsequently only followed policy and procedures for accidents!rush to eliminate evidence from a crime scene, not a presumption of "cause" for the collapse...which led to absolutely no investigation of steel support structures of the WTC7, etc.
War: Why would any other steel [from WTC7] need to be analyzed? [NOTE to War: No steel, whatsoever, from the WTC7 was analyzed]
The above is only babble to a disinformation .gov shill.
#54. To: litus (#53)
What does analyzing the steel have to do with how the building fell? /moron
#55. To: war (#54)
/moron So what would be the problem with analyzing the materials that might have been a contributing cause? Or are you saying the buildings were supposed to fail in this fashion? What is YOUR problem with a complete investigation? What are you afraid of?
What does analyzing the steel have to do with how the building fell?
#56. To: war (#55)
What is your true agenda?
To War: What is YOUR problem with a complete investigation? What are you afraid of?
#57. To: war, mininggold (#54) (Edited)
Since when, in a criminal investigation involving the collapse of a building, explosions and fire does the investigation not include analyzing the support structures of said building....unless, of course, some kind of presumption was made prior to the investigation, which altered the normal course of investigations normally pursued for arson/criminal investigations. I happen to know that arson investigations go much further into analyzing the "crime scene" than if it was presumed and believed, upon surface investigation that a crime was not, in fact, involved. It was obvious to the entire world that a crime occurred on 9/11....except for the U.S. government, ATF, CIA, FBI, I guess.
What does analyzing the steel have to do with how the building fell?
#58. To: All (#57)
*crickets*
#59. To: mininggold (#55)
They know what the contributing cause was...a fire that burned out of control for six hours compromised the buuilding's support structure.. Is your case that they set those thermite charges to activate after the building burned for six hours?
So what would be the problem with analyzing the materials that might have been a contributing cause?
#60. To: litus (#57)
Is it your case that they set those thermite charges to activate after the building burned for six hours?
Since when, in a criminal investigation involving the collapse of a building, explosions and fire does the investigation not include analyzing the support structures of said building....unless, of course, some kind of presumption was made prior to the investigation, which altered the normal course of investigations normally pursued for arson/criminal investigations.
#61. To: litus (#58)
Huh?
#62. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
Based upon what?
A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.
#63. To: war (#61)
Third time asked, third time you've not answered. Simple as that.
*crickets* Huh?
#64. To: war (#60)
That's not an answer to my question, which was: Did you know that when an unattended body is found dead, an autopsy is performed, even when it appears obvious as to the cause of death (i.e., multiple stabbings, gunshot wounds, etc.)? Would a thorough investigation as to the cause of death not be performed, the investigator would be considered negligent in his/her duties if the investigator merely assumed or presumed the cause of death, relying only upon surface level observations. This type of negligence appears to be what the "investigators" of WTC 7 are guilty. And, to me, it appears intentional.
Is it your case that they set those thermite charges to activate after the building burned for six hours?
Since when, in a criminal investigation involving the collapse of a building, explosions and fire does the investigation not include analyzing the support structures of said building....unless, of course, some kind of presumption was made prior to the investigation, which altered the normal course of investigations normally pursued for arson/criminal investigations.
It appears assumptions and presumptions were made prior to the "investigation."
#65. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#40) (Edited)
based on claims that it was a "hollow" steel core....I didn't realize that "hollowness" could be grounds for steel melting at temperatures far below the temperature at which fuel burns.
#66. To: TwentyTwelve (#56)
I came upon the following: QUOTE “Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7,” Sunder said. The NIST investigation team also determined that other elements of the building’s construction—namely trusses, girders and cantilever overhangs that were used to transfer loads from the building superstructure to the columns of the electric substation (over which WTC 7 was constructed) and foundation below—did not play a significant role in the collapse. According to the report, a key factor leading to the eventual collapse of WTC 7 was thermal expansion of long-span floor systems at temperatures “hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire resistance ratings." WTC 7 used a structural system design in widespread use. A few reactions: This is the result of thermite, which, of course, does not "explode." The NIST has placed a nice strawman in their report they can use to dismiss any possibility of "controlled demolition" by saying there were no "explosions." There's a variant of thermite called "thermate", hotter, faster and contains sulfur. and a comment which sums up what many feel: NIST: “Our study found that the fires in WTC 7, which were uncontrolled but otherwise similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings, caused an extraordinary event,” said NIST WTC Lead Investigator Shyam Sunder. “Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail, initiating a fire-induced progressive collapse that brought the building down.”
ENDQUOTE...in Appendix C of its World Trade Center Building Performance Study, FEMA claimed:
Evidence of a severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel, including oxidation and sulfidation with subsequent intergranular melting, was readily visible in the near-surface microstructure. A liquid eutectic mixture containing primarily iron, oxygen, and sulfur formed during this hot corrosion attack on the steel... The severe corrosion and subsequent erosion of Samples 1 and 2 are a very unusual event. No clear explanation for the source of the sulfur has been identified.
how ordinary fires could have caused the collapse of steel structures ...
#67. To: litus (#66)
The people who believe this are either really stupid or they are shills.
I find it an insult to my common sense that people put forward theories about how ordinary fires could have caused the collapse of steel structures ...
#68. To: TwentyTwelve (#67)
Yep.
The people who believe this are either really stupid or they are shills.
#69. To: war (#59)
Is your case that they set those thermite charges to activate after the building burned for six hours? My case is for a thorough investigation, which includes analyses of materials. I really hope that there was no sabotaging of the buildings.
They know what the contributing cause was...a fire that burned out of control for six hours compromised the buuilding's support structure..
#70. To: litus (#66)
It's a wonder anyone will enter much less agree to work full time in buildings that have a predilection for total collapse in the event of fires that a good sprinkler system should have been able to put out. You would have thought a thorough investigation would have been a priority since similiar buildings are everywhere. Hmmmmmm
I find it an insult to my common sense that people put forward theories about how ordinary fires could have caused the collapse of steel structures ...
#71. To: litus (#65)
Who claimed that it was a hollow steel core and that steel melted?
based on claims that it was a "hollow" steel core....I didn't realize that "hollowness" could be grounds for steel melting at temperatures far below the temperature at which fuel burns.
#72. To: mininggold (#69)
Of course there was...the first came in from the north @ 429MPH and the second from the south @ 500+MPH...
I really hope that there was no sabotaging of the buildings.
#73. To: war (#72)
Number 7 was hit? Make up your mind.
Of course there was...the first came in from the north @ 429MPH and the second from the south @ 500+MPH...
#74. To: war, mininggold (#72)
Of course there was...the first came in from the north @ 429MPH and the second from the south @ 500+MPH... That's your and .gov's problem. The "investigation" proceeded upon certain assumptions and presumptions. A scientific investigation does not go about trying to prove its theory. It goes about trying to disprove it's theory. At least a couple faulty assumptions and presumptions which guided the "investigations" which led to error: 1) Assumption that debris from another building caused the fire. What evidence do they have that suggests that debris from another building caused the fire? Were events such on that day that cause of fire could only have resulted from debris from another building? 2) Assumption that heat from the fire was key in what brought down the tower. In their words: "a key factor leading to the eventual collapse of WTC 7 was thermal expansion of long-span floor systems at temperatures 'hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire resistance ratings.' and, "This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building," the agency stated. This flies in the face of logic to have made conclusions based upon their preconceived presumptions. Upon what evidence do they base these claims? Their "evidence" to rule out explosives and fuel oil are as follows: FILM? Computer models? They rely upon film and animation devices as a foundation for such absurdities? Why were physical materials (i.e., the steel) from within the building itself not analyzed? What about eyewitnesses? Where are their arson investigators' statements and analysis? The entirety of these claims are too preposterous! .gov proceeded with their "investigations", and continue to maintain, that "events on 9/11 were mutually exclusive". .gov maintains the theory that "a" to "e" occurred: [airplane at WTC1 & 2 -> caused debris to intrude on surrounding buildings -> creating fire -> leading to heat -> caused collapse]; therefore, "aa" [detonation of bombs] could not have occurred, been a contributing factor, or caused the collapse, even though "aa" was never investigated nor ruled out by physical evidence from the crime scene.
I really hope that there was no sabotaging of the buildings.
“Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oil fires played a role in the collapse of WTC 7...
#75. To: war, mininggold (#8)
The planes didn't explode you idiot, the tanks burst, the fuel caught on fire, and most of it blew out the building in the direction of the original trajectory of the aircraft.
The Achilles heel being planes impacting at over 400MPH, exploding
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#76. To: mininggold, war (#14)
It's become quite clear that war likes to avoid any real investigation, and shouts down with obscenities and idiotic comments anyone looking into the matter...
What do you have against thorough investigations?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#77. To: war, mininggold (#16)
You are a total moron war. You don't understand simple physics, yet you toss a few words together and hope to impress people. Do you have some sort of psychiatric issue where you need to feel important, or are you getting paid to act this way???
Gravity armed force dynamics helped.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#78. To: Critter, war (#18)
Critter: Everyone who worked at One Liberty Plaza refers to it as OLP. It's becoming quite clear that war is a lying weasle. I bet he's only visited New York at best, and was NOT there on 9/11 as he claims. He tries to use "I was there" as some sort of factor in his credibility. I found it sort of odd when he said he saw the buildings collapse, yet when pressed on it was forced to admit he didn't actually see them collapse because he was too busy running away.
war: I don't know what OLP is
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#79. To: FormerLurker, Critter (#78)
Somebody else used to do that. I want to say Margarite but the memory is vague. I remember one of the people from CP did it all the time.
I bet he's only visited New York at best, and was NOT there on 9/11 as he claims. He tries to use "I was there" as some sort of factor in his credibility.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
#80. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#25)
Yet there are some NY fire fighters who are saying there is. Who knows more about it I wonder, some anonymous poster called war, or NYFD firemen who go public? Hmmmm, that's a tough one.
There's no gag order.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#81. To: farmfriend, Critter (#79)
It's a common tactic amongst Internet trolls and shills.
Somebody else used to do that. I want to say Margarite but the memory is vague. I remember one of the people from CP did it all the time.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#82. To: FormerLurker, Critter (#81)
LOL yeah of that I have no doubt. She seemed to do it for other reasons though. Was an sympathy/attention getter. She played up the fear part, an "oh poor me" thing.
It's a common tactic amongst Internet trolls and shills.
"Controlling carbon is a bureaucrat's dream. If you control carbon, you control life." — Dr. Richard Lindzen, MIT Professor of Meteorology
#83. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#29)
YOU are the lying jackass bud. ANY cursory reading on fires will reveal that BLACK SMOKE is a sign of an oxygen starved fire, whereas WHITE SMOKE indicates a raging HOT fire. Black smoke is ALSO formed by soot given off in fuel fires or tire fires, BUT the fuel burnt out in the first few minutes after the impacts. In regards to the WTC towers, the FIREMEN said the fires were almost out. I believe them before I believe you, a liar who has tried to pass off pictures of Building 5 engulfed in flames as that of Building 7.
OUtright lie...any fireman will tell you that smoke is an indication of WHAT IS BURNING
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#84. To: war (#32)
The irony in that is breathtaking...
Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#85. To: war (#29) (Edited)
OUtright lie...any fireman will tell you that smoke is an indication of WHAT IS BURNING...ande it's fucking hilarious, given the GAPING holes in WTC to believe that anything was O2 deprived... You can't be that Stupid. Can you? What is your true agenda?
Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived
#86. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#85)
I don't think it is possible to be that st000pid or that stubborn, so he has to be just a POS shill.
You can't be that Stupid. Can you?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#87. To: Critter (#86)
I don't think it is possible to be that st000pid or that stubborn, so he has to be just a POS shill. I agree. Nobody can be that stupid & stubborn.
You can't be that Stupid. Can you?
#88. To: TwentyTwelve (#85)
Any fireman, or Boy Scout above Tendefoot for that matter, will tell you that smoke is an indication of WHAT IS BURNING...and it's fucking hilarious, given the GAPING holes in WTC to believe that anything was O2 deprived...
#89. To: TwentyTwelve (#24)
according to you these fires are oxygen deprived: 
#90. To: war (#89)
They are. There is not enough oxygen in proximity to the flame to support efficient combustion. If you knew anything... if you SHIT about anything, you'd know that. Why the fuck do you think lots of oxygen under pressure is required to get an acetylene torch to get hot enough to cut and weld?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#91. To: Critter (#90)
Thanks for proving that you are a Moonbat...those fires are anything but oxygen deprived but I will admiot that they were chosen for a certain commonality... Why the fuck do you think lots of oxygen under pressure is required to get an acetylene torch to get hot enough to cut and weld? I would imagine the same reason that pressure pumps are used to get gas out of the station's holding tank and into your car.
They are.
#92. To: Critter (#90)
Oxyegen dDeproved? All of those fires will be out in a couple of minutes, right? Oxygen deprived that they are...
#93. To: Critter (#90)
Almost out!!! 
#94. To: war (#92)
These are pics of black rubber tires burning. Duh.
All of those fires will be out in a couple of minutes, right? Oxygen deprived that they are...
#95. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#94)
Duh. lolol!
These are pics of black rubber tires burning.
#96. To: litus (#95) (Edited)
#97. To: TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, Rotara, litus, critter, all (#87)
Y'all probably should stop pickin' on war. Besides all his Obamasiah worship he probably needs to spend more time counting his money than bandying words with peons. I think he is related to Badeye and you know that Badeye needed to spend a lot of time counting his money.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#98. To: war (#92)
A more technical explanation is that black smoke indicates incomplete and inefficient combustion, where various hydrocarbons are formed and do not burn. The hottest fires are efficient fires, and they are the ones that produce no smoke at all. Sure, a pile of tires will produce lots of black smoke and will be hard to put out, but that doesn't mean it's an extremely hot fire, it means it's an inefficient fire.
Oxygen deprived that they are...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#99. To: James Deffenbach, TwentyTwelve, Rotara, litus, critter (#97)
I bet they swap hummers every so often too...
I think he is related to Badeye and you know that Badeye needed to spend a lot of time counting his money.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#100. To: FormerLurker (#99)
LOL!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#101. To: war (#89)
"If massah say dat de big building fall cuz de fire burned, I best beleeb him. Massah keep me fed and gib me a house to lib in."
#102. To: bluegrass (#101)
BWAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, long as ol' massah take care ob me I'm bleeged to beleeb as he tells me.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#103. To: Litus (#96) (Edited)
#104. To: FormerLurker, war (#98)
War is a douche bag. He has no clue. Don't even waste your time.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#105. To: TwentyTwelve (#96)
: )
#106. To: bluegrass (#101)
fofl!!
#107. To: FormerLurker, James Deffenbach, TwentyTwelve, war (#99)
I think war just likes all the attention he gets, being so contrary.
#108. To: TwentyTwelve (#24) (Edited)
according to the BBC "The Falling Man" vid, the windows were broken and the building was like a "giant chimney" as office materials and furnishings caught fire and steel melting kerosene went down the elevator shafts to the basement and well it's all just like the state said it was so go back to sleep please..the official version of a giant forge and aluminum airplane wings slicing through solid steel core columns in perfect symetry (3 times...err ooops..only 2 buildings were hit but 3 fell..how troublesome for our story) has been placed so do not disturb../sar
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
#109. To: IndieTX, TwentyTwelve (#108)
but birds down a jet in the Hudson.... the official version of a giant forge and aluminum airplane wings slicing through solid steel core columns in perfect symetry
#110. To: IndieTX (#108)
In other words the history books are closed and off limits.
according to the BBC "The Falling Man" vid, the windows were broken and the building was like a "giant chimney" as office materials and furnishings caught fire and steel melting kerosene went down the elevator shafts to the basement and well it's all just like the state said it was so go back to sleep please..the official version of a giant forge and aluminum airplane wings slicing through solid steel core columns in perfect symetry (3 times...err ooops..only 2 buildings were hit but 3 fell..how troublesome for out story) has been placed so do not disturb../sar
#111. To: litus (#107)
Are you saying you think he might be an attention whore? Could be I suppose. Shills usually have some kind of sickness like that.
I think war just likes all the attention he gets, being so contrary.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#112. To: James Deffenbach (#111)
That's a possibility, yes. OTOH, he could actually believe what he's saying, and that would be worse than saying it just because it's paying your bills or you need attention.
Are you saying you think he might be an attention whore?
#113. To: litus (#112)
Yeah, much worse.
OTOH, he could actually believe what he's saying, and that would be worse than saying it just because it's paying your bills or you need attention.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#114. To: James Deffenbach (#113)
I can't imagine being such a person to swallow all the .gov propaganda, hook, line, and sinker!
#115. To: bluegrass (#101)
Is that supposed to have some sort of deeper meaning beyond your own shallow racism?
#116. To: TwentyTwelve (#94)
So...not only does smoke turn black when it's oxygen deprived it also reflects the color of what is being burned... Someone forgot to tell this red car that [or maybe it was black but then painted red in a massive scheme to defraud the Laws of Smoke by The Those Same Dark Forces Which Were Behind 9/11?]: These are pics of black rubber tires burning.
#117. To: Critter (#104)
Actually, I'm a triathlete.
War is a douche bag.
#118. To: Critter, war (#104)
Right. I see that everyone pretty much hates you over here too, eh war .... you spineless, pencil-necked fool? What a joke. You ran off (or were run off) the other site because you were loathed over there. When will you run away from here? lol
War is a douche bag.
#119. To: beyond the sea (#118)
Oh give them some time...they might come around... You ran off (or were run off) the other site because you were loathed over there. There's no-one here to impress Otis...they hate the Jews here as much as you do... When will you run away from here? Father's Day... [snicker]
I see that everyone pretty much hates you over here too, eh war ....
#120. To: war (#116)
Hey dipshit, I bet dollars to donuts that the roof of that car didn't collapse.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#121. To: war (#117)
What? You can beat off three of your gay friends at once?
Actually, I'm a triathlete.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#122. To: Critter (#120)
Hey Moonbat...I'll bet you dollars to donuts that fire ISN'T oxygen starved...
#123. To: Critter (#121)
Oh geee...homo humor...well let me respiond in kind... Yep...and as soon as you stop blowing them I will...
What? You can beat off three of your gay friends at once?
#124. To: war, Critter (#122)
Did the car turn into pulverized flour?
Hey Moonbat...I'll bet you dollars to donuts that fire ISN'T oxygen starved...
#125. To: war (#122)
ah, but it is, that's why it isn't burning hot enough to collapse the roof of the car.
Hey Moonbat...I'll bet you dollars to donuts that fire ISN'T oxygen starved...
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#126. To: TwentyTwelve (#124)
You mean like this? and this Ooops//two more questions...
Did the car turn into pulverized flour?
#127. To: war (#122)
There was oil and tires in the WTC buildings?
...I'll bet you dollars to donuts that fire ISN'T oxygen starved...
#128. To: Critter (#125)
Chuckles...drinking from your special well of knowledge again? How long did that car burn for?
ah, but it is, that's why it isn't burning hot enough to collapse the roof of the car.
#129. To: mininggold (#127)
There were petroleum based products most certainly. Yea...you walked right into it...your other two Moonies, I'll give them credit for being smart enough to NOT ask that question...then there's you...
There was oil and tires in the WTC buildings?
#130. To: war (#128)
You are not even worth the waste of bytes it would take to explain it.
How long did that car burn for?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#131. To: war (#126)
You mean like this? Idiot. I mean like this: Did the car turn into pulverized flour?
#132. To: war (#129)
Dimwits like you do a great service to our cause. Anyone with half a brain reading this knows that you're full of shit, and those without half a brain that might be conned by your BS, well, they ain't worth having around anyway.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#133. To: war (#129)
Yea...you walked right into it...your other two Moonies, I'll give them credit for being smart enough to NOT ask that question...then there's you... The burning parts of the car is made up almost entirely of petroleum based products.... BUT You don't seem to realize that as soon as you have to resort to name calling YOU HAVE LOST. When will YOU ask for a full investigation? Especially since you claim to work in an area full of buildings ready to collapse from small office fires. LOLOLOLOL
There were petroleum based products most certainly.
#134. To: Critter (#130)
Aw gee...another Moonbat "Gotcha" moment morphed into yet another "Aw shit...there's that goddammed logic thingie again..."
You are not even worth the waste of bytes it would take to explain it.
#135. To: war (#126)
You mean like this? Fool. I mean like this: Did the car turn into pulverized flour?
#136. To: Litus, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#135)
ping.
#137. To: mininggold, critter (#133)
#120. To: war (#116) Hey dipshit, I bet dollars to donuts that the roof of that car didn't collapse. Critter posted on 2009-04-08 12:37:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply ~snip~ #104. To: FormerLurker, war (#98) War is a douche bag. He has no clue. Don't even waste your time. critter posted on 2009-04-07 19:08:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply [snicker]
The burning parts of the car is made up almost entirely of petroleum based products.... BUT You don't seem to realize that as soon as you have to resort to name calling YOU HAVE LOST.
#138. To: TwentyTwelve (#135)
What did you think that 100odd floors of sheetrock and concrete falling down would look like? Goddammit was that another question?
#139. To: mininggold (#133)
Is calling you a goddammed liar name calling or truth?
Especially since you claim to work in an area full of buildings ready to collapse from small office fires.
#140. To: war (#126)
You mean like this? I mean like this: Did the car turn into pulverized flour?
#141. To: TwentyTwelve (#135)
Yawn...New Yawkers just think stuff like this is "normal" in their little corner of the world. Won't even get them to push for a full investigation. They just accept whatever TPTB tell them.
I mean like this:
#142. To: war (#138)
Goddammit was that another question? So now it's back to the pancake explanation. Keep your stories straight please.
What did you think that 100odd floors of sheetrock and concrete falling down would look like?
#143. To: mininggold (#141)
"programmed" New Yorkers are the worst ones.
Yawn...New Yawkers just think stuff like this is "normal" in their little corner of the world. Won't even get them to push for a full investigation. They just accept whatever TPTB tell them.
#144. To: war (#139)
What did I lie about? You not calling for a thorough investigation?
Is calling you a goddammed liar name calling or truth?
#145. To: war (#126)
You mean like this? I mean like this: Did the car turn into pulverized flour?
#146. To: mininggold (#142)
Nope. It's the same force dynamics explanation that not one of you Moonbats has been able to refute.
So now it's back to the pancake explanation. Keep your stories straight please.
#147. To: mininggold (#144)
"Especially since you claim to work in an area full of buildings ready to collapse from small office fires." I've never made the claim that these buildings are ready to collapse form small offioce fires. And, if you are claimiong that the fires in WTC were only small office fires then you are lying again.
What did I lie about?
#148. To: TwentyTwelve (#145)
Those pictures are "normal and natural" to New Yawkers. Another sign that common sense and logic seems out of fashion there. No wonder this country is in such dire straits.
#149. To: TwentyTwelve (#140)
What did you think that 100odd floors of sheetrock and concrete falling down would look like? BTW, to answer the question in that picture I'd suggest that you avail yourself of the concept of what air does as it is displaced...
#150. To: mininggold (#148)
If it was "pulverized into flour" where did all this "stuff" come from? Those pictures are "normal and natural" to New Yawkers. Another sign that common sense and logic seems out of fashion there. No wonder this country is in such dire straits.
#151. To: war (#147)
Then how did that WTC7 building collapse? Was it made out of wood? All you have to do is show us one example where a similiar building under similiar circunstances came a tumbling down in similiar fashion. One itty bitty example. Come on.... you are good for it.
I've never made the claim that these buildings are ready to collapse form small offioce fires. And, if you are claimiong that the fires in WTC were only small office fires then you are lying again.
#152. To: Critter (#132)
Dimwits like you do a great service to our cause.
#153. To: war (#152)
So you admit you have no examples. LOLOL.
Critter.......2012.......mininggold...
#154. To: mininggold (#151)
An out of control fire across most of its floors compromised a major support beam which, in turn, caused cascading failure which resulted in the building's collapse... Thanks for asking...
Then how did that WTC7 building collapse?
#155. To: war (#154)
Why was the fire out of control, no sprinkler system? and one major support beam was all that was supporting that building? My, my .... you need to take this up with the building department. Aren't you the least bit concerned?? How many other similiar buildings are precariously waiting for their turn to collapse in New Yawk? The tourist industry needs to let other know about NYs lack of concern for their under engineered buildings.
An out of control fire across most of its floors compromised a major support beam which, in turn, caused cascading failure which resulted in the building's collapse... Thanks for asking...
#156. To: mininggold (#155) (Edited)
#157. To: Critter (#121)
What? You can beat off three of your gay friends at once? "triathlete" = TRIES TO BE AN ATHLETE. LOL. These lame dudes like wart who choose to run, bike, and swim all over the place for absolutely no reason are much like those poor desperate gerbils on the spinning wheel -- a useless waste of time. I feel his pain. His tights are hurting his groin. lol
Actually, I'm a triathlete.
#158. To: mininggold (#151)
Right on. Please let me to agree ith you over here. You are right Let's start over here. Okay?
Then how did that WTC7 building collapse? Was it made out of wood? All you have to do is show us one example where a similiar building under similiar circunstances came a tumbling down in similiar fashion. One itty bitty example. Come on.... you are good for it.
#159. To: mininggold (#155)
Correct...FDNY had to use all available water elsewhere... and one major support beam was all that was supporting that building? Nope...It's failure was coupled to beams weakened by heat unable to compensate for the increased load... Feel free to show any previous controlled demoltion that started at the top floor...
Why was the fire out of control, no sprinkler system?
#160. To: mininggold, war (#151)
Then how did that WTC7 building collapse? Was it made out of wood? All you have to do is show us one example where a similiar building under similiar circunstances came a tumbling down in similiar fashion. One itty bitty example. Come on.... you are good for it.
"This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building," the agency stated.
#161. To: litus, mininggold, war (#160)
1st, 2nd, and 3rd. All in the same day. What are the odds of this happening?
"This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building," the agency stated.
#162. To: TwentyTwelve (#161)
When has a similar catastrophe occurred? oops...another question... hey...if I put a period at the ned of my questions will I then get an answer. Let's try it...
What are the odds of this happening?
#163. To: war, mininggold (#146)
It's been refuted countless times you idiot. You've never once addressed my analysis of the collapse which calls into question the official explanation. For one, there was NOT enough energy to cause a collapse of the lower floors since the energy was spent pulverizing the upper floors. Energy can't be used once it's gone.
It's the same force dynamics explanation that not one of you Moonbats has been able to refute.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#164. To: war (#162)
Where is the 'ned' of your question?
if I put a period at the ned of my questions will I then get an answer
#165. To: war (#159)
Do you think the public would have so easily accepted the "pancake" theory if the collapse had started from the bottom floors? The collapse HAD to be made to look as if it was due to the aircraft collision in order to be believable.
Feel free to show any previous controlled demoltion that started at the top floor...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#166. To: beyond the sea (#157)
No need to worry Otis...the world needs town drunks and fat gardeners too...you're doubly qualified...
#167. To: abraxas (#164)
Here... Where is the 'ned' of your question?
#168. To: war (#167)
I bet you're a big fan of his "squeal like a pig" performance, eh?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#169. To: TwentyTwelve, christine (#161) (Edited)
1st, 2nd, and 3rd. All in the same day. What are the odds of this happening? Impossible.
"This was the first known instance of fire causing the total collapse of a tall building," the agency stated.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
#170. To: war (#162) (Edited)
#171. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#162)
When has a similar catastrophe occurred? The Empire State Building. It's still standing!!
What are the odds of this happening?
#172. To: war, TwentyTwelve, IndieTX (#171) (Edited)
The crash tore a hole about 18 ft (5.5 m) wide by 20 ft (6 m) tall in the 34th Street exterior of the Empire State Building. While the 78th and 79th floors bore the brunt of the damage, one of the B-25's engines fell down an elevator shaft and set off a major fire in the basement. The other engine hurtled across the building and tore through seven walls before emerging from the 33rd Street side of the tower. The debris crashed through the roof of a thirteen-story building across the street where another fire erupted. Other heavy wreckage, including the landing gear, also caused damage to the Empire State and nearby buildings while Stan Lomax reportedly saw part of a wing catapulting towards Madison Avenue. 
At the last moment, Lt. Col. Smith must have seen the profile of the Empire State Building looming out of the fog. He tried to pull up while banking away, but the distance was too short and the bomber's velocity too great. At approximately 9:49 AM, the B-25 plunged into the 78th and 79th floors of the skyscraper some 975 ft (295 m) above ground level. The plane impacted at an estimated speed of 200 miles per hour (320 km/h) making the building shake under the force of the collision. The high-speed crash also caused the plane's fuel tanks to explode, sending a fireball 100 ft (30 m) high and releasing blazing gasoline down the facade of the building. Sheets of flame also raced through the maze of hallways and stairwells inside the building, reaching at least as far down as the 75th floor.
Amazing!!! The Empire State Building did not collapse, nor the other buildings, which were hit by debris causing fires to erupt.
#173. To: war, mininggold (#154)
Bullshit. You posted a picture of Building FIVE which WAS experiencing a major fire, trying to pass it off as Building SEVEN. Building SEVEN had a very minor fire yet collapsed, whereas Building FIVE had a seriously out of control fire yet DIDN'T collapse.
An out of control fire across most of its floors compromised a major support beam which, in turn, caused cascading failure which resulted in the building's collapse...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#174. To: FormerLurker, mininggold, Litus, Wudidiz, war (#173)
war has lost all credibility.
To war: Bullshit. You posted a picture of Building FIVE which WAS experiencing a major fire, trying to pass it off as Building SEVEN. Building SEVEN had a very minor fire yet collapsed, whereas Building FIVE had a seriously out of control fire yet DIDN'T collapse.
#175. To: war (#146)
BTW, are you still tickling Rim Job's bunghole with your moustache?
you Moonbats
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#176. To: TwentyTwelve (#174)
I've caught him in numerous lies, and when called on it he simply ignores me and continues on with his repetitive BS.
war has lost all credibility.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#177. To: war, TwentyTwelve, beyond the sea, mininggold, FormerLurker (#154)
You ARE the scumbag shill in my tagline video, aren't you?
An out of control fire across most of its floors compromised a major support beam which, in turn, caused cascading failure which resulted in the building's collapse...
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#178. To: FormerLurker (#176)
I've caught him in numerous lies, and when called on it he simply ignores me and continues on with his repetitive BS. I know. war's modus operandi is quite obvious.
war has lost all credibility.
#179. To: TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, war (#174)
war has lost all credibility. Why would he have done that?
You posted a picture of Building FIVE which WAS experiencing a major fire, trying to pass it off as Building SEVEN. Building SEVEN had a very minor fire yet collapsed, whereas Building FIVE had a seriously out of control fire yet DIDN'T collapse.
#180. To: litus, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#179)
war has lost all credibility. Why would he have done that? He got caught trying to fool us. He underestimated us.
You posted a picture of Building FIVE which WAS experiencing a major fire, trying to pass it off as Building SEVEN. Building SEVEN had a very minor fire yet collapsed, whereas Building FIVE had a seriously out of control fire yet DIDN'T collapse.
#181. To: TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#180)
Sooner or later, that's what happens to all .gov shills.
He got caught....He underestimated us.
#182. To: litus, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#181)
Not just Government shills. Be on the lookout for Media and Federal Reserve shills as well.
Sooner or later, that's what happens to all .gov shills.
#183. To: TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, wudidiz (#182)
That's true. I've already had to deal with at least one Federal Reserve shill; but it may likely have been at least three. They also resorted to lying and outright intentional misrepresentations of others' statements and comments.
Be on the lookout for Media and Federal Reserve shills as well.
#184. To: litus, TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, wudidiz, christine (#183)
I'd love to have access to the server logs for this site. hehehe
Be on the lookout for Media and Federal Reserve shills as well.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#185. To: war (#115)
Only that you're a well-trained govbot.
#186. To: TwentyTwelve (#135)
yeah, that's fire damage alright.
#187. To: war, mininggold (#154)
An excellent description of the Feds' explanation of 9/11.
cascading failure
#188. To: Critter (#184)
I'd love to have access to the server logs for this site. hehehe : )
Be on the lookout for Media and Federal Reserve shills as well.
#189. To: bluegrass (#185)
You choice was as ill conceived as your accusation. I would have loved to have found some complicity inside the US government regarding this attack but I have never been presented with any evidence that runs contrary to what I saw with my own eyes, hard about in the days thereafter and read about in the ensuing years.
Only that you're a well-trained govbot.
#190. To: Critter, christine (#184)
Christine...feel free to display one of miue...also, anyone who listens to NPR, I will be on ATC this afternoon discussing credit market condidtions,
I'd love to have access to the server logs for this site. hehehe
#191. To: litus (#171)
The B-25 that hit the cement and steel framed Empire State was doing abot 100 knots...
The Empire State Building.
#192. To: litus (#171)
200 knots...sorry...typo...much slower - by more than a half - than the planes that hit the mesh steel of WTC...
#193. To: war (#190)
LOL. That explains a lot about NPR's financial coverage.
anyone who listens to NPR, I will be on ATC this afternoon discussing credit market condidtions,
#194. To: TwentyTwelve (#174)
Let's face it...you never thought I had any even though I have answered each and every one of your Moonbat questions. Why won't you answer any of my questions.
war has lost all credibility.
#195. To: war (#191)
WTC towers were cement and steel framed too. Try again stooge.
The B-25 that hit the cement and steel framed Empire State was doing abot 100 knots...
God is always good!
#196. To: war (#194)
I answered all your questions. Looks like you have Alzheimers.
God is always good!
#197. To: TooConservative (#193)
NPR isn't a financial network and it doesn't pretend to be. They do have a podcacst "Planet Money" that does a good job of reporting - mostly a result of Adam Davidson's abilities as a reporter.
LOL. That explains a lot about NPR's financial coverage.
#198. To: RickyJ, Twentytwelve (#196)
Incorrectly when you bothered to...the resident spammer won't tho...why is that? What's he afraid of?
I answered all your questions.
#199. To: RickyJ (#195)
WRONG. And you've been shown to be wrong and I can only conclude now that you WANT to PROMOTE that lie So, continue to lie, as ForwmerLurker did and, from a cut and paste here continues to do, you will go on bozo.
WTC towers were cement and steel framed too.
#200. To: bluegrass (#187)
I've seen no evidence to convince me otherwise. The thermite BS doesn't hold water for any number of reasons not the least of which is that the collapse started at the top and then mid building and then cascaded from there...
An excellent description of the Feds' explanation of 9/11.
#201. To: litus (#179)
FL is a lying shill...the picture was posted in response to him claming that there were no fires raging out of control on 9/11. It was never intended to be limited to building 7. Ask him to buck up the post...he won't...
Why would he have done that?
#202. To: Critter, mininggold (#177)
Did he "lose", MG?
You ARE the scumbag shill in my tagline video, aren't you?
#203. To: TwentyTwelve (#178)
FL isn;t being ignored...he's bozo'd because he's stupid...I told him FLAT OUT he was bozo'd and if he thinks I am simply ignoring him then he's underscoring that I was correct in re his stupidity,
#204. To: war (#191)
Not according to the article I previously posted. It was going about 200 mph...not knots: The B-25 that hit the cement and steel framed Empire State was doing abot 100 knots... [sic: later you corrected to 200 knots]
The plane impacted at an estimated speed of 200 miles per hour (320 km/h) making the building shake under the force of the collision. The high-speed crash also caused the plane's fuel tanks to explode, sending a fireball 100 ft (30 m) high and releasing blazing gasoline down the facade of the building. Sheets of flame also raced through the maze of hallways and stairwells inside the building, reaching at least as far down as the 75th floor.
#205. To: war (#190) (Edited)
what time and what does ATC stand for?
also, anyone who listens to NPR, I will be on ATC this afternoon discussing credit market condidtions,
#206. To: litus (#204)
Which is slower than 200 knots...around 170ishMPH... probably should have read your next post before responding...sorry...
Not according to the article I previously posted. It was going about 200 mph...not knots:
#207. To: christine (#205)
All Things Considered...think it starts around 4...believe it or not, I rarely listen to it when I am on...I hate the sound of my voice...I'll find out what time the segment airs because my sister puts it on for my 88 year old Ma...
#208. To: christine (#205)
"Attack The Capitalists".
what time and what does ATC stand for?
#209. To: litus (#204)
Geez...FASTER...where am I today...
#210. To: TooConservative (#208)
Hilarious...their coverage of this last fall bears that out...I'll give them credit though...they've yet to incorrectly slant any story in which I've contributed and I get a tranbscript every time...
"Attack The Capitalists".
#211. To: war (#210)
So you are a financial guru who thinks he knows something about physics? THINK is the key word, you have demonstrated on this site you don't know the first thing about physics. Did you short AA and UAL stock before 9/11? I bet you did, why else would you be so defensive of the obvious government lies concerning 9/11?
God is always good!
#212. To: war (#199)
Wrong. But don't let that stop you from putting me on bozo, you can't handle the truth very well.
WRONG. And you've been shown to be wrong
God is always good!
#213. To: RickyJ (#211)
I'm not a guru. I observe and report. Making financial decisions is not a hard proposition...in times of uncertainly stay in cash. If you take risk, make suire that it is in something that is a) people need and b) is in short supply. Just remember that for every dollar that you bet there is a dollar being taken out that beleives you to be wrong. As for physics...I paid attention in class...
So you are a financial guru who thinks he knows something about physics?
#214. To: war, RickyJ, ALL (#199)
Hey warbot, is that your strategy, when all else fails accuse your accuser of doing that which you do best? You have not honestly answered one single question I've asked, and you have been caught in several blatent lies and have not responded when called upon to explain yourself. You posted an image of Building 5 engulfed in flames, claiming that it was Building 7, and used it as "proof" of how Building 7 was so engulfed in flames that it had no other choice but to collapse. Well, Building FIVE did NOT collapse, and that IS the building that you showed in that picture, NOT Building 7, which only suffered a relatively minor fire yet DID collapse. You've been asked to explain yourself and given a chance to retract that post MANY TIMES, yet have failed to do so, and have CONTINUED to LIE about the nature of the fire in Building 7. You are a LIAR.
So, continue to lie, as ForwmerLurker did and, from a cut and paste here continues to do, you will go on bozo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#215. To: war (#213)
Physics isn't the class where you played dodge ball you moron.
As for physics...I paid attention in class...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#216. To: FormerLurker, war (#215)
Physics isn't the class where you played dodge ball you moron. war put you on bozo.
As for physics...I paid attention in class...
#217. To: TwentyTwelve (#216)
His problem, not mine.
war put you on bozo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#218. To: war, litus, TwentyTwelve, RickyJ, Original_Intent, wudidiz, christine (#201)
Oh REALLY? Ok dokie, let's go back to what you first posted in that regard... We were SPECIFICALLY talking about Building 7 in post 67, and here's that converstation from that post; FormerLurker: Bullshit. Even if true, WTC7 was internally reinforced. Do you think it was incapable of supporting itself without one of it's exterior walls? How do you think it kept from falling while they were building it? You have so many childish assumptions it's sort of humorous, as you have to used really fractured logic to arrive at your conclusions. Oh and BTW, there were no "raging fires", there was a bit of a diesel fire inside but nothing close to a "raging fire". You think that a structure such as WTC7 would simply collapse like a deck of cards due to a relatively small internal fire a bit of damage to an exterior wall? And here's what you posted in response to post 67; Mine had gravity in it. Where were the Enron SEC filings stored? In a computer database. Oh and BTW, there were no "raging fires", there was a bit of a diesel fire inside but nothing close to a "raging fire". You're out of your fucking mind. Do I need to post yet even more pictures showing how stupid you are? You then posted an image of Building 5, using it as "proof" of "how fucking stupid" I was. Building 5 is the last visible image in that post (the last picture doesn't show, it's just a X). The image file is named http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/docs/wtc5_fire_floors.jpg, which is pretty clear that it's an image of wtc5, not wtc7. You also posted an image of one of the towers for effect I guess, but it's apparent that you were trying to get away with posting an image of Building 5 and having people believe it was actually Building 7. So you are shown to be a LIAR and a SHILL, and simply retort with those words against one who first identified you as such. I used to have to post things that BAC used to try to get away with back on LP, where a day or so after he posted something he'd deny it or misrepresent what he was posting in reference to, just like you.
FL is a lying shill...the picture was posted in response to him claming that there were no fires raging out of control on 9/11. It was never intended to be limited to building 7.
war: WTC 7 was no "realtively undamaged". Almost teh whole of the South Facade was gone and fires raged within it...
#175. To: FormerLurker (#67) Apparently we studied a different sort of physics.
So you wrote to me in response to my comments on Building 7, "You're out of your fucking mind. Do I need to post yet even more pictures showing how stupid you are? "
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#219. To: TwentyTwelve (#216)
It's akin to a little brat blocking his ears and yelling BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH when one of his elders speaks to him... It's apparent that he thinks he'll shut me up by doing that.
war put you on bozo.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#220. To: FormerLurker (#219)
He underestimated you once again.
It's apparent that he (war) thinks he'll shut me up by doing that.
#221. To: christine (#205)
My segment will air around 5:05EDT...
what time
#222. To: RickyJ (#212)
Yamasaki and engineers John Skilling and Les Robertson worked closely, and the relationship between the towers' design and structure was clear. Faced with the difficulties of building to unprecedented heights, the engineers employed an innovative structural model: a rigid "hollow tube" of closely spaced steel columns with floor trusses extended across to a central core. The columns, finished with a silver-colored aluminum alloy, were 18 3/4" wide and set only 22" apart, making the towers appear from afar to have no windows at all. Also unique to the engineering design were its core and elevator system. The twin towers were the first supertall buildings designed without any masonry. Worried that the intense air pressure created by the buildingsâ high speed elevators might buckle conventional shafts, engineers designed a solution using a drywall system fixed to the reinforced steel core.
#223. To: TwentyTwelve (#216)
ROFLMAO...he STILL doesn't get it?
war put you on bozo.
#224. To: war (#221)
ok, thanks. i'll try to listen in.
#225. To: TwentyTwelve (#220)
I did but not only in estimating his stupidity...
He underestimated you once again.
#226. To: war (#190)
Does NPR still stand for Neocon Propaganda Relay? You must enjoy undermining your own credibility.
also, anyone who listens to NPR, I will be on ATC this afternoon discussing credit market condidtions,
#227. To: christine (#224)
I'll be interested in your take...I try to explain things so that anyone listening would be able to grasp them...Seigal is a good interviewer too...he prepares very well and avoids being the story...
#228. To: bluegrass (#226)
You obviously don't listen.
Does NPR still stand for Neocon Propaganda Relay?
#229. To: war (#223)
ROFLMAO...he STILL doesn't get it? So you don't even have the ability to just ignore a poster when they disagree with you? My, my... such a fragile creature. I think until NewYawkers demand a thorough investigation I shall do everything in my ability to alert others.
war put you on bozo.
#230. To: war (#228)
BOYCOTT NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!!
You obviously don't listen.
#231. To: war (#223)
Building 5 is the last visible image in that post (the last picture doesn't show, it's just a X). The image file is named http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/docs/wtc5_fire_floors.jpg, which is pretty clear that it's an image of wtc5, not wtc7. You also posted an image of one of the towers for effect I guess, but it's apparent that you were trying to get away with posting an image of Building 5 and having people believe it was actually Building 7. So you are shown to be a LIAR and a SHILL, and simply retort with those words against one who first identified you as such. I used to have to post things that BAC used to try to get away with back on LP, where a day or so after he posted something he'd deny it or misrepresent what he was posting in reference to, just like you. FormerLurker Here's the comment to you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you wrote to me in response to my comments on Building 7, "You're out of your fucking mind. Do I need to post yet even more pictures showing how stupid you are? " You then posted an image of Building 5, using it as "proof" of "how fucking stupid" I was.
#232. To: mininggold (#229)
My, my... such a fragile creature. Talk to your shill buddies who have me on bozo...
So you don't even have the ability to just ignore a poster when they disagree with you?
#233. To: war (#228)
I listened when NPR was pumping out the Neocon propaganda via its affilitions with The Weekly Standard. You obviously don't pay attention to what's in front of your face. Don't forget to get dressed up for the radio.
#234. To: war (#232)
None are my "buddies" except they share my disdain for your tactics and all seem to be posting to you which means they haven't bozo'd you.
Talk to your shill buddies who have me on bozo...
#235. To: war (#227)
Get over it. Siegel is just another media kike: Seigal is a good interviewer too...he prepares very well and avoids being the story...
#236. To: mininggold (#231)
Look I appreciate what you are tyring to do. My response was in the context of his claim that there fires on 9/11 at WTC were minimal...it's why I included pics of all the buildings at which point my response should have been clear to him. I never represented those pics as being of one buildings I explained that him when he first accused me of that. I can't help his ongoing denial. He was bozo'd simply because the exchange had gotten stale...he asked and continued to ask the same questions...he would make statements of "fact" that were anything but, be corrected with links and sources and then would later make the same statements. As for you contention that I am some sort of coward for bozoing someone...I don't do it lightly...otehr than that I could give a fuck what you think of me...you don't know me...
#237. To: mininggold (#234)
Rotara, randge, Deffenbach have all claimed to have bozo'd me. OI did as well but then continued to respond to me. I was pointing out that you seem to be selective in your criticism. Fuckk seem to be...you ARE selective.
and all seem to be posting to you which means they haven't bozo'd you.
#238. To: bluegrass (#235)
And you're just another racist. Without him, you'd be nothing.
Get over it. Siegel is just another media kike:
#239. To: war (#238)
I can always count on you to play to form. You ignore NPR's neocon affiliations and zero in on 'racism'. Calling predatory Jews what they are (kikes) isn't racist. Jews aren't a race.
#240. To: bluegrass (#233)
I listen to NPR daily...I find it hilarious that NPR was attacked for biased reporting against Booosh's Folly in Iraq. NPR is routinely accused of having a pro-Palestinian bias and is often called by the Israeli/Zionist media as being the most anti-Israel news outlet in the US. IN other words, you're opinion is nowhere based in reality.
I listened when NPR was pumping out the Neocon propaganda via its affilitions with The Weekly Standard. You obviously don't pay attention to what's in front of your face.
#241. To: bluegrass (#239)
I stand corrected...it's bigotry.
Calling predatory Jews what they are (kikes) isn't racist.
#242. To: bluegrass (#239)
Such as?
You ignore NPR's neocon affiliations
#243. To: war (#240)
NPR has always been in favor of the "war on terror" as it was carried into Iraq and Afghansitan. It's one of THE central Neocon/Neolib ideologies. If it quacks like a duck... NPR rountinely has Bill Kristol, Fred Barnes and other human waste on as commentators. Are there any other murderers and their accomplices that you wish to defend?
#244. To: war (#241)
It would be 'bigoted' to call all Jews kikes. I reserve 'kike' for those media/government/moneyed Jews that are in alliance with each other to steal what's left of our inheritance.
#245. To: war, Rotara, randge, Deffenbach, Original Intent (#237)
I was pointing out that you seem to be selective in your criticism. Fuckk seem to be...you ARE selective. Yet none seem to show much interest on this thread. Another distraction and a name calling opportunity. They are just playing with you as you try to play with them. Tit for Tat. LOLOL
Rotara, randge, Deffenbach have all claimed to have bozo'd me. OI did as well but then continued to respond to me.
#246. To: mininggold (#245)
Shit, I did that long ago. You people have the patience of a saint.
Rotara, randge, Deffenbach have all claimed to have bozo'd me. OI did as well but then continued to respond to me.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
#247. To: bluegrass (#243)
Not only as a listern of NPR but As a friend of Adam Davidson who was NPR's reporter in Iraq I can tell you that is 100% false. NPR rountinely has Bill Kristol, Fred Barnes and other human waste on as commentators. ROFLMAO...they also did a series on Louis Farrakhan and Mariam Sobh is an NPR reporter. Just Say No to NPR Recent boycotts of media outlets, launched mostly by grassroots groups concerned about anti-Israel bias, have prompted criticism from a few establishment Jewish organizations that have argued that because the Jews and Israel have been the victims of boycotts, the tactic is illegitimate and immoral. But these arguments ignore certain basics. First, to state the obvious, the current campaigns bear no resemblance to the protracted, global economic, diplomatic and cultural exclusions Israel has suffered or the ferocious campaigns against Jewish businesses in Nazi-era Europe. Those anti-Jewish boycotts, dictated by ruling regimes, were rooted in a hateful bigotry and aimed at the elimination of a people and a state, not the redress of an offending policy. The protests against The New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Philadelphia Inquirer and others are initiatives by individuals, not governments, and are freely joined by anyone who accepts the arguments of the campaigners. No one is compelled to end their subscriptions to the publications, just as no one, surely, is compelled to continue them. Boycotts in the American context have long been a tool of consumer complaint and social policy activism, sometimes an effective one -- often not -- and Jews, including Jewish organizations, have participated in them. For example, was the Central Conference of American Rabbis wrong in 1985 to call on 1.2 million Reform congregants to boycott nonunion California grapes in support of Cesar Chavez's campaign? From another perspective, to say that boycotts should not be used by Jews because Jews have been the victims of boycotts makes no more sense than to assert that because guns and soldiers have been wielded against Jews and Israel, Jews should forego their use, no matter what the provocation, in order to present a more pure moral face to the world. Although the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) has not initiated or sponsored boycott campaigns against any national or regional newspapers, there has been a call to suspend financial support for one media outlet until its harmful anti-Israel bias ends. That institution is National Public Radio (NPR). The network receives tax support, both directly and indirectly, via the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and aggressively solicits financial gifts from listeners and underwriters (who are actually business and institutional advertisers). A matrix of local and national boards cultivates supporters and helps advance NPR's fundraising efforts. Are Jewish listeners under obligation to provide both the involuntary support to NPR, entailed in their taxes allotted to the network, and additional donations in response to the constant entreaties by station managers and NPR officials? Are Jewish listeners duty bound to send checks to help finance programming in which grave allegations are routinely leveled at Israel without a single Israeli given the right of response? The many examples of distortion are far too numerous to recite in detail. A July 1 program, for instance, charged that Israel continuously shoots at innocent sewer repairmen in Gaza, thwarting efforts to assure healthy conditions for Palestinian civilians. So relentless are Israeli snipers, according to NPR, that international "activists" must position themselves, physically, between the shooters and the repairmen. Palestinian "human rights" and medical workers all join in attesting to the allegedly malevolent role of Israel. But not a single Israeli is permitted to answer the charges. Israel Defense Forces (IDF) spokesmen categorically denied the NPR claims to CAMERA and said, moreover, NPR had never contacted them about the story. The IDF spokesman also noted that the network's reporters rarely call to fact check allegations made against the military. Under public pressure in this instance, NPR posted a note on its Web site expressing "regrets" for failing to include any Israeli spokesman. The regrets were not broadcast on-air where a substantial audience might hear them, nor was there a follow-up story presenting the Israeli version of events. The "regrets" were evidently insincere since one-sided, accusatory coverage continues unabated. An especially incendiary story on Aug. 31 by Anne Garrels included six Palestinians leveling charges against Israel for allegedly depriving them of needed water in West Bank towns. No Israeli or pro-Israel voices were included. Garrels herself added to the deceptions, twice stating that only half of West Bank towns have tap water. What she neglected to mention is that all towns were given the option of being connected to the National Water Carrier to tap water, but some refused on political grounds, refusing to recognize Israel's presence in any guise. That excluded bit of information would have radically altered Garrels' story of blameless Palestinians victimized by stone-hearted Israelis. But her reports are typically short on factual accuracy and long on emotive editorializing. Troubled at rising public dismay over the coverage, NPR executives have responded, not by rigorous attention to assuring every broadcast is balanced and accurate, but by hiring a PR firm to help spin their image in the Jewish community. All the while, the distortions continue. A media outlet unwilling to address serious substantive complaints through the normal channels of interaction for more than a decade, which is the case with NPR, cannot expect the Jewish community to underwrite unfair and damaging distortions. What self-respecting people supports its own defamation? Anchor Melissa Block: "In Washington today, active-duty members of the U.S. armed services presented more than a thousand appeals for redress to Congress. These are letters urging U.S. disengagement from Iraq.Here's NPR's David Welna from the Capitol." Welna: "Liam Madden is a 22-year-old sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corps who two years ago did combat duty in Iraq's turbulent Anbar province. Today, Sergeant Madden donned a civilian coat and tie in a chilling wind outside the Capitol so he could formally present 1,028 appeals for redress from other active-duty forces, 60 percent of them fellow Iraq veterans. Sgt. Liam Madden: "We are asking Congress to stop the funding for the Iraq War. We will not tolerate the rhetoric that we must support the troops by funding a war that puts them in harm's way. If you are funding a war that puts them in harm's way, you are not supporting them. You are endangering their lives for war that cannot be justified, have not been justified and will not work." Welna: "The actual text of the appeals for redress says, quote, ‘I respectfully urge my political leaders in Congress to support the prompt withdrawal of all American military forces and bases from Iraq. Staying in Iraq will not work and it's not worth the price,’ unquote.Twenty-four-year-old California Army National Guard Sergeant Jabbar Magruder, who also fought two years ago in Iraq, came in civilian dress as well and said he had not told his commander about the appeal he had signed." Sgt. Jabbar Magruder: "I know why I was fighting in Iraq. I wanted somebody to get this movement going. I wanted to see things here at home changed to get back to common sense and actually speak about, you know, bringing the troops home and actually getting out of Iraq. So I know that there are troops in Iraq right now who must see this on ASN and know that they are -- that we had their best interests in mind, especially since we put our boots on ground." Welna: "Ohio Democrat Dennis Kucinich, a long time opponent of the war and who's also a presidential contender, received the appeals for redress saying since lawmakers sent people to Iraq and asked them to die, those people have a right to ask why." Rep. Dennis Kucinich: "Article 3.5.7 of Department of Defense Directive 132.6 provides the right of service members to complain and request redress of grievances against action of their commanders. The action taken here by individual service members is an appeal for redress to end the war in Iraq. As you know, these troops have risked their careers to deliver this message to Congress." Welna: "But the identities of most of those who signed the appeals won't be revealed, according to Sergeant Madden, who co-founded the drive to collect signatures." Sgt. Madden: "Although what we're doing is public, the appeal goes directly -- it's a protected communications to the service members, members of Congress. Their chain of command does not know. Members around the military don't have to worry about reprisal." Welna: "And none of the three active-duty service members who were at the Capitol Hill event reported any reprisals from military superiors. Massachusetts Democrat Jim McGovern promised them Congress will act on their demands since, he said, President Bush won't." Rep. Jim McGovern: "What you need to do in the face of that kind of arrogance of power is you need to get Congress to stand up and to demand an end to this war. And if that means conditioning, withholding or cutting the funds, that's what we need to do." Welna: "That's exactly how Congress ended U.S. involvement in Vietnam 32 years ago. Vietnam veteran David Cline told the active-duty service members that their Vietnam-era counterparts had also signed petitions." David Cline, Vietnam veteran: "So we are seeing a repeat of history. The war in Iraq is a repeat of the Vietnam War, well I'm proud to say that are fighting men and women are repeating what we did back in the '60s and '70s in standing up for what's right." Welna: "The appeals for redress are to be delivered to the House clerk and referred to the proper committees.David Welna, NPR News, the Capitol."
NPR has always been in favor of the "war on terror"
by Andrea Levin
October 4, 2002
#248. To: mininggold (#245)
Um...they have me bozo'd....did you miss that part? How can they respond to me if they don't see me?
Yet none seem to show much interest on this thread.
#249. To: bluegrass (#244)
I can't get through the day without one big juicy rationalizaytion either... What's your excuse for the picture of the black guy?
I reserve 'kike' for those media/government/moneyed Jews that are in alliance with each other to steal what's left of our inheritance.
#250. To: mininggold (#230)
Fine with me...you tourists are a pain in the ass...
BOYCOTT NEW YORK CITY
#251. To: war (#247)
Keep shooting yourself in the foot. It's entertaining.
As a friend of Adam Davidson...
#252. To: war (#249)
You're proving yourself a house nigger and a programmed gov/media bot with every post. Please continue.
#253. To: war (#248)
They aren't on this particular thread and I have no idea about the other threads. I have other things to do than hang out on all the threads to see which posters are posting to you. Geesh get a life.
#254. To: war (#227)
war, tuning in and it's not ATC. it's Talk of the Nation.
#255. To: war (#250)
Fine with me...you tourists are a pain in the ass... You really are quite the fool! *** www.breitbart.com/article...3ee7aa.551&show_article=1 Job cuts needed to stop NY bankruptcy: mayor Apr 9 01:32 PM US/Eastern Sweeping layoffs of government employees are needed to prevent New York going bankrupt, Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Thursday. Bloomberg, who is in tense negotiations with municipal workers' unions, said an extra 7,000 jobs would have to go unless major reductions are made in employee benefits. "We cannot continue. Our pension costs and health care costs for our employees are going to bankrupt this city," he said in comments broadcast on NY1 television. Bloomberg, running for a third mayoral term at the end of this year, said that proposals from unions so far were "nowhere near what is adequate." The possible job cuts, first announced Wednesday, would be on top of 1,300 already proposed and another 8,000 that could be axed through attrition. Department heads have until Monday to propose cuts and Bloomberg must present the city budget by the end of the month. The city is barred by law from running deficits. The recession and the Wall Street crisis have knocked a huge hole in city finances that traditionally relied heavily on taxes from financial companies. The budget office on Wednesday said that 7,000 extra job cuts would allow the city to cut a further 350 million dollars in expenditure. Copyright AFP 2008
BOYCOTT NEW YORK CITY
#256. To: war, mininggold, TwentyTwelve (#236) (Edited)
You are a LIAR war. It is clear from post 67 and post 175 that the conversation was SPECIFICALLY about Building 7, not ALL of the WTC buildings. And BTW, in regards to WTC1 and WTC2 (since you want to expand the conversation to ALL of the collapsed buildings), the fires in the towers were just about out, right before those buildings collapsed. As far as Building 5, which you posted an image of and which was NOT being discussed, it was engulfed in flames, yet DID NOT COLLAPSE.
My response was in the context of his claim that there fires on 9/11 at WTC were minimal...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#257. To: war, mininggold, TwentyTwelve (#236)
LIAR. You could NOT find a flight manifest yet you posted newspaper graphics claiming THEY were the manifests. You posted conflicting collapse times for Building 7, and never gave a firm number for the collapse times of WTC1 and WTC2. You tap danced and bullshitted your way through this thread, then bozo'd me because I was calling you on your bullshit and lies, and you couldn't find an adequate lie to explain your inconsistent and conflicting remarks and statements.
He was bozo'd simply because the exchange had gotten stale...he asked and continued to ask the same questions...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#258. To: christine (#254)
Are you in Eastern Time Zone? It's on the website...
war, tuning in and it's not ATC. it's Talk of the Nation.
#259. To: TwentyTwelve (#255)
Your point was what?
#260. To: mininggold (#253)
So...you have no problem yelling at me for bozo'ng someone but can;t be bothered with those who bozo me all the while painfullyh unaware of a search function.
I have other things to do than hang out on all the threads to see which posters are posting to you. Geesh get a life.
#261. To: bluegrass (#251)
Keep shooting yourself in the foot. It's entertaining. You have a problem with the Irish too?
As a friend of Adam Davidson...
#262. To: war (#259)
Think about it. Don't hurt yourself.
Your point was what?
#263. To: bluegrass (#252)
I'll try harder...
You're proving yourself a house nigger
#264. To: TwentyTwelve (#262)
I'm for smaller government. Why would this upset me?
Think about it.
#265. To: war (#258)
www.npr.org/audiohelp/progst ream.html i logged in here at 4 pm CT and it was airing Talk of the Nation. check the program scheduling displayed on that page.
#266. To: FormerLurker, War, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, Litus, christine, all (#256)
You are a LIAR war. It is clear from post 67 and post 175 that the conversation was SPECIFICALLY about Building 7, not ALL of the WTC buildings. And BTW, in regards to WTC1 and WTC2 (since you want to expand the conversation to ALL of the collapsed buildings), the fires in the towers were just about out, right before those buildings collapsed. As far as Building 5, which you posted an image of and which was NOT being discussed, it was engulfed in flames, yet DID NOT COLLAPSE. As well some of the heroes of FDNY reached the 85th floor, afoot, before the collapse and began radioing back about the SURVIVORS on the impacted floors and the need for two hose crews to knock down the flames. That is NOT a raging inferno it is a moderate building fire which would have been easily controlled. We know that the aircraft did not substantially damage the massively reinforced steel girder core (which was interlocked and so would have acted as a "heat sink" resulting in holding the temperature of the steel down below any of the critical points), that the fuel was burned up within ten minutes, and that the overbuilt cores of the building were more than adequate to sustain the level of proven damage and remain standing. The problem Whore runs into is that none of the Official Fairy Tale is supported by the available evidence. It is just that - a fairy tale concocted to sell to the technically ill-informed general public the idea that the fairy tale explains the collapse and thus divert attention away from evidence supporting explosive demolition. Just on an evidenciary basis controlled demolition alone accounts for all of the observed phenomena. The Official Fairy Tale is contradicted by dozens to hundreds of observed datums. That is why quisling slime such as Whore are paid to run around and lie on different web sites to try to lend support to the false explanation. Oh, and one of the reasons that aid is being withheld from the heroes of the FDNY is that there are too many living witnesses who have gone on record saying there were explosions. The criminals who orchestrated this false flag terror crime WANT them to die as quickly as possible to get rid of inconvenient witnesses.
My response was in the context of his claim that there fires on 9/11 at WTC were minimal...
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#267. To: Original_Intent (#266)
bttt
Oh, and one of the reasons that aid is being withheld from the heroes of the FDNY is that there are too many living witnesses who have gone on record saying there were explosions. The criminals who orchestrated this false flag terror crime WANT them to die as quickly as possible to get rid of inconvenient witnesses.
#268. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker, War, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, christine, all (#266)
Oh, excellent point there, OI. I don't know if I knew about this. Obviously, if it was a "raging inferno" there was no way that any firemen would have attempted to put that out, or called in for more crews. Oh, and one of the reasons that aid is being withheld from the heroes of the FDNY...The criminals who orchestrated this false flag terror crime WANT them to die as quickly as possible to get rid of inconvenient witnesses. Aid is being withheld from them? There can be NO OTHER reason than for the very reason you opined!
As well some of the heroes of FDNY reached the 85th floor, afoot, before the collapse and began radioing back about the SURVIVORS on the impacted floors and the need for two hose crews to knock down the flames. That is NOT a raging inferno it is a moderate building fire which would have been easily controlled.
#269. To: litus (#268)
Here is a link to a downloadable audio mp3 of the radio calls of the crews who made it up there. Audio Excerpts of Firefighter Radio Transmissions in South Tower Oh and I mis-remembered it was the 78th floor not the 85th. Here is an transcript of one of the key transmissions: 9:52 a.m. Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha." "Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us." Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones." Ladder 15: "What stair are you in, Orio?" Battalion Seven Aide: "Seven Alpha to lobby command post." Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven." Battalion Seven Chief: "... Ladder 15." Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?" Battalion Seven Chief: "South stairway Adam, South Tower." Ladder 15: "Floor 78?" Battalion Seven Chief: "Ten-four, numerous civilians, we gonna need two engines up here." Ladder 15: "Alright ten-four, we're on our way." 9:58 a.m. (Tower collapses at 9:59) Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven to Ladder 15." (End of Tape) End of heroes murdered by Bush, Cheney, and their masters. DAMN THE BASTARDS!
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#270. To: Original_Intent (#269)
God bless those poor men....I'm otherwise too angry for words.
End of heroes murdered by Bush, Cheney, and their masters. DAMN THE BASTARDS!
#271. To: litus, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, christine, all (#268)
Real Audio file of Chief Palmer In South Tower Does a veteran battalion chief radio anything to fellow firefighters without knowing exactly what he is getting them into? This is dangerous shit. They make sure they assess the situation accurately. Anyone who claims that he gave them incomplete info is an asshole.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#272. To: Original_Intent (#269)
Beat me to it. I just posted a Real Audio version. lol
Here is a link to a downloadable audio mp3 of the radio calls of the crews who made it up there. Audio Excerpts of Firefighter Radio Transmissions in South Tower
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#273. To: Original_Intent (#269)
Thanks for posting this.
#274. To: Critter (#272)
That's fine. No one can say there aren't enough available formats. ;-)
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#275. To: TwentyTwelve (#273)
You are most welcome. Arguing with filthy quisling shills aside these HEROES should not be forgotten. BUGLER! FRONT! Sound Taps please. Excuse me a moment I seem to be experiencing a problem with my eyes.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#276. To: Original_Intent (#274)
It makes me want to first cry, then kill some mutha fuggers, every time I hear that.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#277. To: Critter (#276)
I know. Hanging really is too good for them.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#278. To: Original_Intent (#275)
It is starting to remind me of the days we had at LP.
Arguing with filthy quisling shills aside these HEROES should not be forgotten.
#279. To: Original_Intent, Critter, Litus, FormerLurker (#277)
I know. Hanging really is too good for them.
#280. To: TwentyTwelve, Original_Intent, Critter, FormerLurker (#279)
End of heroes murdered by Bush, Cheney, and their masters. DAMN THE BASTARDS!
Hanging really is too good for them.
#281. To: litus (#280)
End of heroes murdered by Bush, Cheney, and their masters. DAMN THE BASTARDS!
#282. To: TwentyTwelve (#281)
End of heroes murdered by Bush, Cheney, and their masters. DAMN THE BASTARDS!
#283. To: TwentyTwelve (#279)
Too quick but acceptable if they are faced upward so they can stare at the blade and then watch it fall.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#284. To: Original_Intent (#283)
Good idea.
Too quick but acceptable if they are faced upward so they can stare at the blade and then watch it fall.
#285. To: Original_Intent (#266)
Oh...they've made it to 85 now...what's the over under on you Moonies having them making it to the roof? So, I guess I can now look forward to correcting the floor that FDNY made it to [78] as well as what a Code 1 1045 is [DEAD BODIES]...
As well some of the heroes of FDNY reached the 85th floor
#286. To: litus (#268)
Don't feel left out...nobody else did either...
I don't know if I knew about this.
#287. To: Original_Intent (#269)
Didn't you say they made it to 85?
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."
#288. To: Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve (#283)
It needs to have a dull blade, and not enough weight to make a clean cut the first time... or the second... or the third....
Too quick but acceptable if they are faced upward so they can stare at the blade and then watch it fall.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#289. To: Original_Intent (#275)
How many 9/11 funerals did you attend?
#290. To: christine (#265)
Aha...yer an hour behind assuming yer not 2 hours behind because you live in one of those counties that don't observe Daylight Time...
#291. To: war, Original_Intent (#289)
And your point is????
How many 9/11 funerals did you attend?
#292. To: war, Original_Intent (#289)
How many 9/11 Conferences have you attended? Were you at the one in in LA? Chicago? Dallas?
How many 9/11 funerals did you attend?
#293. To: TwentyTwelve, war, Original_Intent (#291)
And your point is???? You know how murderers sometimes go to the funerals of their victims....
How many 9/11 funerals did you attend?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#294. To: war (#289)
Attending a funeral makes you an expert in physics and structural engineering? That's a new one. I got some erroneous info that the WTC towers had steel a reinforced concrete core. At least I think it was erroneous now. It appears it was dry wall instead. But that doesn't explain the towers collapse at all. In 1975 the North Tower burned for much longer and much more intensely than on 9/11, it didn't fall like a house of cards then.
How many 9/11 funerals did you attend?
God is always good!
#295. To: war, TwentyTwelve, Critter, christine, Wudidiz, litus, all (#287)
Didn't you say they made it to 85? I mis-spoke which I corrected in my next post (#269). You're reaching shill. Your disinformation tactics are now so obvious that even a freeptard might catch on. Of course what you are trying to do is distract from the key points of the transcript: Firefighters made it to the 78th floor. There were survivors amidst the alleged raging inferno which an experienced Battalion Chief described as "...two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines". Hardly a raging inferno hot enough to melt steel. And there were survivors to be evacuated from amidst that inferno hot enough to melt steel. You are really stupid shill if you think I will bite on your attempt to draw me into a diversion which takes away from the point you want people to miss. There were survivors. There were two small pockets of fire requiring only two hose teams. That is not a raging inferno hot enough to melt steel. Once again you are exposed as a liar and a shill. Who do you work for shill? How much do they pay you? Minimum wage? You're certainly not worth more than that.
Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#296. To: Original_Intent, Uncle Bill (#295)
as Uncle Bill (where are you?) once wrote, anyone who peddles .gov's fairy tale is either brain dead or a shill.
#297. To: christine, Original_Intent, Uncle Bill, war (#296)
And the brain dead typically don't make up lies and act like raging psychopaths, unlike our little friend war...
as Uncle Bill (where are you?) once wrote, anyone who peddles .gov's fairy tale is either brain dead or a shill.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#298. To: Original_Intent (#266)
Very similar to the JFK assassination witnesses...
Oh, and one of the reasons that aid is being withheld from the heroes of the FDNY is that there are too many living witnesses who have gone on record saying there were explosions. The criminals who orchestrated this false flag terror crime WANT them to die as quickly as possible to get rid of inconvenient witnesses.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#299. To: Original_Intent (#266)
Those are all highly pertinent facts that the shills tap dance around and do whatever they can to obscure. They depend on the simple fact that for many, it's so much easier to go along with the herd than to actually think about the facts, as once one considers the facts, it becomes clear that we are STILL under constant threat of another series of attacks by those who TRULY perpetrated the 9/11 terror attacks, and that we have been killing people and losing American lives in the Middle East for NOTHING.
That is NOT a raging inferno it is a moderate building fire which would have been easily controlled. We know that the aircraft did not substantially damage the massively reinforced steel girder core (which was interlocked and so would have acted as a "heat sink" resulting in holding the temperature of the steel down below any of the critical points), that the fuel was burned up within ten minutes, and that the overbuilt cores of the building were more than adequate to sustain the level of proven damage and remain standing.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#300. To: Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, Critter, christine, Wudidiz, litus (#295)
And that is something we can NEVER expect to hear reported on television news. And for the brain dead, if it's not on TV news, then it mustn't be true because they truly think reporters and news editors are free to report on whatever they wish.
There were survivors amidst the alleged raging inferno which an experienced Battalion Chief described as "...two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#301. To: Original_Intent (#266) (Edited)
Since steel is a very good conductor of heat the whole building acted like one giant heat sink. Some warping of the steel could have occurred in the hottest spots given enough time, but 1 hour of smoldering fires wasn't enough time nor enough heat to cause warping. The 1975 fire in the North tower showed that it takes much more than one hour for any damage to occur from a raging fire in a steel framed skyscrapper, which it was. That fire was much hotter and lasted much longer than the fires on 9/11. Only minor warping resulted from that fire. But it didn't effect the structural integrity of the building in the slightest.
. We know that the aircraft did not substantially damage the massively reinforced steel girder core (which was interlocked and so would have acted as a "heat sink" resulting in holding the temperature of the steel down below any of the critical points)
God is always good!
#302. To: RickyJ (#301)
Yes, but you are not a trained WTC structural engineer, so you are not allowed to understand anything like simple physics. Now stop trying to trick us with logic, will ya? < /sarcasm >
Since steel is a very good conductor of heat the whole building acted like one giant heat sink. Some warping of the steel could have occurred in the hottest spots given enough time, but 1 hour of smoldering fires wasn't enough time nor enough heat to cause warping.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#303. To: Original_Intent (#295)
The difference between 78 and 85 is 7 floors or half a football field, moron. YOuyr penchant for inaccuracy is well establised. OI: WTC 7 falling at free fall speed PROVES it was brought down by control demolition. ~versus~ OI: WTC& Falling at LESS THAN free fall speed PROVES that it was brought down by controlled demolition. My next question is: ...where's the other banjo?
You're reaching shill.
#304. To: Original_Intent (#295)
1045 Code one means DEAD fool...
There were survivors.
#305. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, Critter, christine, Wudidiz (#300)
And that is something we can NEVER expect to hear reported on television news. And for the brain dead, if it's not on TV news, then it mustn't be true because they truly think reporters and news editors are free to report on whatever they wish. Fire Department Tape Reveals No Awareness of Imminent Doom ''We're gonna knock down some fire here in the B Stair,'' Lieutenant Leavey is heard telling one of his firefighters. ''We'll meet up with you. You get over to the A Stair and help out Chief Palmer.'' The time was 9:56 a.m. The firefighters had just arrived at a place where, 54 minutes earlier, many people had been waiting for elevators when the second plane came crashing through the building. Now Chief Palmer and Ladder 15 were surrounded by the wounded whom they hoped to evacuate. There were survivors amidst the alleged raging inferno which an experienced Battalion Chief described as "...two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines".
Ladder 15 had finally found the fire after an arduous climb to the 78th floor, according to the tape. They were in the B stairwell. On the other side of the fire were hundreds of people, blocked from fleeing by smoke and flame on the stairs. Chief Palmer was facing similar fires in the A stairwell, across the floor.
#306. To: war (#304)
1045 Code one means DEAD fool... Nice attempt at misdirection. NOT. Where's the raging inferno hot enough to melt steel? If it was hot enough to melt steel there would be no bodies to be recovered. There WERE survivors to be recovered. Remember the photo of the woman looking out the hole made by one of the planes? Per the Battalion Chief's report from the scene there were two small pockets of fire requiring just 2 hose teams. You are attempting to direct attention away from the key data. In other words you are using disinformation tactics. Why do you find it necessary to direct attention away from the data with disinformation tactics? Play Again?
There were survivors.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#307. To: War (#306) (Edited)
"Why do you find it necessary to direct attention away from the data with disinformation tactics?"
#308. To: litus, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, Critter, christine, Wudidiz, Whore, war, all (#305)
Ladder 15 had finally found the fire after an arduous climb to the 78th floor, according to the tape. They were in the B stairwell. On the other side of the fire were hundreds of people, blocked from fleeing by smoke and flame on the stairs. Chief Palmer was facing similar fires in the A stairwell, across the floor. ''We're gonna knock down some fire here in the B Stair,'' Lieutenant Leavey is heard telling one of his firefighters. ''We'll meet up with you. You get over to the A Stair and help out Chief Palmer.'' The time was 9:56 a.m. The firefighters had just arrived at a place where, 54 minutes earlier, many people had been waiting for elevators when the second plane came crashing through the building. Now Chief Palmer and Ladder 15 were surrounded by the wounded whom they hoped to evacuate. Another thought which hit me from your post. It is another one of those "but the dog did not bark in the night" datums. There is no sound of the structure beginning to fail. There is no apparent awareness by experienced firefighters that the building is in danger of collapsing. No snapping girders, no creaking structure, nothing. The building just suddenly, without warning, decides to collapse straight down into roughly its own footprint including the massively reinforced H-beam core which Whore tried inititially to deny existed as the structure's primary load bearing support. That is an important datum, because in a normal failure there are going to be precursors to failure. There will be sound, falling walls, snapping girders, etc., ..., but THERE WAS NO SOUND INDICATING IMMINENT COLLAPSE even up to the last transmission at 9:58. The building just decided to collapse uniformly, symmetrically, and into its own footprint. We know the fire WAS MOST DEFINITELY NOT hot enough to melt steel or even soften it enough to fail. Certainly the entire floor was not on fire as witnessed by the firefighters being able to access it, walk around, and report the conditions on the scene back. The Battalion Chief reported that he needed only two teams to fight two small pockets of fire. That again is NOT a raging inferno. So, the question of course is what causes a building showing no signs of imminent collapse to suddenly collapse, uniformly, symmetrically, at near free fall velocity into its own footprint? What would cause that? Certainly not the nonexistent raging inferno. The only hypothesis that accounts for ALL the data is an intentional controlled explosive demolition. As with all 911 threads the valid data always leads back to that one hypothesis as the ONLY ONE which accounts for ALL of the data.
Fire Department Tape Reveals No Awareness of Imminent Doom
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#309. To: TwentyTwelve (#307)
At the very least we should be seeing wholesale retrofitting of high rises worldwide to prevent theses types of "accidents" in the future. That is... if they believe their own scenarios. lololol The followup behaviors always give them away.
"Why do you find it necessary to direct attention away from the data with disinformation tactics?"
#310. To: mininggold (#309)
They almost always incriminate themselves.
The followup behaviors always give them away.
#311. To: Original_Intent (#308)
Excellent observation and point! There should have been sounds indicative of imminent structural failure.
in a normal failure there are going to be precursors to failure. There will be sound, falling walls, snapping girders, etc., ..., but THERE WAS NO SOUND INDICATING IMMINENT COLLAPSE even up to the last transmission at 9:58. The building just decided to collapse uniformly, symmetrically, and into its own footprint.
#312. To: war (#303)
Certainly you can not be serious when you complain about being put on Bozo, when you try to squelch discussion in this fashion.
...where's the other banjo?
#313. To: war (#303)
Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues. I never said the building fell at free fall speed I said the building fell at near free fall speed which anyone with a copy of the video and a stopwatch can verify for themselves. Even you shill. 17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues. 18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#314. To: Original_Intent (#313)
WAR: They did not fall at free fall speed. OI: Gonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng! Wrong answer Private! Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-17 11:54:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply The building's collapse from initiation to completion took 6.6 seconds. A pure freefall from the buildings top, say if you dropped a Bowling Ball, is 6 seconds. So, the obvious conclusion is that the structure offered little or no resistance to the collapse of the structure. Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:50:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
I never said the building fell at free fall speed
#315. To: litus (#311)
Excellent observation and point! There should have been sounds indicative of imminent structural failure. Thanks. Yes, that is what struck me - one of those blindingly obvious things when you think about it but easy to miss because you are looking for something that did happen not something that did not happen.
in a normal failure there are going to be precursors to failure. There will be sound, falling walls, snapping girders, etc., ..., but THERE WAS NO SOUND INDICATING IMMINENT COLLAPSE even up to the last transmission at 9:58. The building just decided to collapse uniformly, symmetrically, and into its own footprint.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#316. To: Original_Intent (#306)
Half a football field away where FDNY could NOT get to. Where's the raging inferno hot enough to melt steel?
#317. To: War (#315)
Did you hear the sounds War? Did you?
There should have been sounds indicative of imminent structural failure.
#318. To: war (#314) (Edited)
WAR: They did not fall at free fall speed. OI: Gonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng! Wrong answer Private! Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-17 11:54:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply The building's collapse from initiation to completion took 6.6 seconds. A pure freefall from the buildings top, say if you dropped a Bowling Ball, is 6 seconds. So, the obvious conclusion is that the structure offered little or no resistance to the collapse of the structure. Original_Intent posted on 2009-03-26 13:50:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply Lets see how good you are at elementary mathematics: Free Fall speed = 6 seconds. The collapse on the video I used took 6.6 seconds. Solve for "X".
i I never said the building fell at free fall speed
6.6 - 6.0 = X
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#319. To: war (#316)
That little fire caused this?:
#320. To: war (#316)
That little fire caused this?:
#321. To: TwentyTwelve (#320)
That looks like pyroclastic flow. Maybe an unnamed volcano was prompted by the planes crashing to erupt from underneath. Yes... that must be it.
That little fire caused this?:
#322. To: Original_Intent, litus (#315)
ROFLMAO...this is what you CANNOT be taken seriously. You type this crap actually believing that what you say is true when the record is quite clear that it is anything but... The World Trade Center's Steel Structure Was Buckling Before the Collapse Police, Firemen and Civilians Saw Warning Signs of Collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11th 2001 Page 2 Quick Guide to Motives for 9/11 Before the collapse of either tower, evidence the structures of the WTC were failing was reported by Police, Firemen and civilians. As already mentioned, flying around outside the WTC, the NYPD helicopters reported "an inward bowing of the buildings' columns in the minutes before they collapsed." Inside WTC 1, New York City Fire Department's Assistant Chief Joseph Callan realized the building was in trouble even before the first building, building two, collapsed. Interviewed Nov. 2, 2001, Assistant Chief Callan told New York City Fire Marshal Michael Starace, "Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower. Approximately ten minutes after that, we had a collapse of the south tower, and we were sort of blown up against the wall in the lobby of the north tower, and we gathered together those of us who were still able to." Callan's warnings about the north tower, WTC 1, reached the Office of Emergency Management, OEM. Other people learned from OEM that the WTC buildings were going to collapse. EMT Richard Zarrillo was told to deliver the message. In an Oct 25, 2001 interview Zarrillo explianed, "I said the buildings are going to collapse; we need to evac everybody out. With a very confused look he said who told you that? I said I was just with John at OEM. OEM says the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get out. ... I said, listen, I was just at OEM. The message I was given was that the buildings are going to collapse; we need to get our people out. At that moment, this thunderous, rolling roar came down and that's when the building came down, the first tower came down." 9110161.PDF http://nistreview.org/histories.php At 9:37, a civilian on the 106th floor of the South Tower reported to a 911 operator that a lower floor-the "90-something floor"-was collapsing. - "The 9/11 Commission Report" p304 WTC Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks 9/11 "Controlled Demolition" Theory Indications of the Imminent Collapse of the World Trade Center Buildings Disprove Explosives Theory Page 1 Quick Guide to Motives for 9/11 Scientists investigating the Sept. 11, 2001 collapse of the twin towers said, "the World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground." There would not be telltale signs if it was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse. "In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m." New York Daily News reporter Paul Shin wrote in his June 19th, 2004 article 9/11 cops saw collapse coming. "Federal engineering investigators studying the destruction of the World Trade Center's twin towers on Sept. 11 said New York Police Department aviation units reported an inward bowing of the buildings' columns in the minutes before they collapsed, a signal they were about to fall." - NYC Police Saw Sign of Tower Collapse, Study Says WTC photos show buckling steel columns in the minutes before the collapse of the buildings. East Face of WTC 2 9:21 AM Maximum inward bowing of approx. 10 in. (18 min after impact) alt. link's: 1, 2, 3, 4 NIST 6McAllister.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- East Face of WTC 2 9:53 AM Maximum inward bowing of approx. 20 in. alt. link's: 1, 2, 3, 4 NIST 6McAllister.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- East Face of WTC 2 9:58 AM Inward bowing of perimeter columns seconds before collapse. alt. link's: 1, 2, 3, 4 NIST 6McAllister.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- South Face of WTC 1 10:23 AM Max bowing of 55 in. alt. link's: 1, 2, 3, 4 NIST 6McAllister.pdf Several minutes before the WTC buildings collapsed, the structures of the buildings were clearly failing and the exterior steel columns could be seen buckling. This simply would not be happening if explosives caused the collapse because explosives don't go off in slow motion for several minutes. Explosives don't slowly buckle steel columns over several minutes. Obviously, the way an actual controlled explosion happens is the explosives all go off in a matter of seconds. There simply would not be warning signs that the buildings were about to be demolished by explosives, it would of course just suddenly happen. But that is not what happened, the buildings did not suddenly collapse without any indications that they would. Instead, the fires were compromising the structural integrity of the buildings and the buildings' support structures failed. Exterior columns buckled because the fires weakened the floor trusses and the floors sagged. The sagging floors pulled on intact column connections so as the floors sagged down, they pulled the exterior columns inward. This inward bowing of the exterior columns was evident to observers such as the police helicopters circling the towers. "The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings." They could see that the exterior steel beams of the buildings were bowing. You can see the inward bowing of the steel columns in pictures of both WTC 2, (the first building to collapse) and WTC 1 (the second building to collapse.) Buckling Steel Dr. Shyam Sunder, lead investigator for NIST's building and fire safety investigation into the WTC disaster, said, "While the buildings were able to withstand the initial impact of the aircraft, the resulting fires that spread through the towers weakened support columns and floors that had fireproofing dislodged by the impacts. This eventually led to collapse as the perimeter columns were pulled inward by the sagging floors and buckled." "The reason the towers collapsed is because the fireproofing was dislodged," according to Sunder. If the fireproofing had remained in place, Sunder said, the fires would have burned out and moved on without weakening key elements to the point of structural collapse." - Latest Findings From NIST World Trade Center Investigation Released "According to Shyam Sunder, the concave bowing of the steel was seen on the sides of the towers opposite where the planes hit them. At 10:06 a.m. that morning, an officer in a police helicopter reported that ``it's not going to take long before the north tower comes down.'' This was 20 minutes before it collapsed. In another radio transmission at 10:21 a.m., the officer said he saw buckling in the north tower's southern face, Shyam Sunder said." "Engineers believe the bowing of the exterior steel beams near the flame- engulfed floors was the critical "triggering point" because that's the direction each tower tilted as it came crashing down." "The report includes photographs taken from police helicopters showing the bending columns." Key findings include: Floor sagging and exposure to high temperatures caused the perimeter columns to bow inward and buckle—a process that spread across the faces of the buildings. Even though the jet fuel on the planes burned off in the first few minutes after impact, there was enough office furniture to sustain intense fires for at least an hour. The original builders of the twin towers and those who later renovated the structures did not have a clear technical standard for deciding on how much insulation to use around the structural beams, many of which gave way in the intense heat. Read more here: Police, Firemen and Civilians Saw Warning Signs of Collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11th 2001 We have an unacceptable risk to our nation because of specific foreign policies. People who promote these erroneous 9/11 theories undermine efforts to get the focus on stopping these foreign policies. We must take a serious look at the motives for the 9/11 attacks and call for a full review of the specific foreign policies that motivate terrorists to attack us. I see a lot of people are spreading this "controlled demolition" theory, I also notice they don't talk about ending the foreign policies. Please donate to help Representative Press get the facts out to the people. False theories like "9/11 was a controlled demolition" or "9/11 was an inside job" or "The WTC collapsed because of explosives" really screw up efforts to stop the specific foreign policies that put our nation at risk. These false theories undermine serious efforts to get foreign policies addressed, for example, U.S. support for Israel. I suspect more than a few people pushing these false theories are very happy to misdirect the American public away from questioning specific foreign policies like U.S. support for Israel. (It is the main policy of the foreign policies that motivated the 9/11 terrorists. The plotter of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, actually went to school here in the U.S. He was angry at the U.S. not because of his experiences here as a student, but rather because of the U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel.) I am working hard to set the record straight and end the risk of terrorism. Please Donate to help me get the truth out. Those conspiracy websites are clearly well funded and like I have said, they misdirect the American public away from questioning specific foreign polices like U.S. support for Israel. I need some money to work with to undo the damage these websites are doing and get the facts to the people. 9/11 was not a game, these conspiracy theories undermine efforts to get the government to change the unjust Middle East policies: Please donate to help Representative Press get the facts out to the people.
THERE WAS NO SOUND INDICATING IMMINENT COLLAPSE even up to the last transmission at 9:58
#323. To: war (#316)
Half a football field away where FDNY could NOT get to.
#324. To: TwentyTwelve (#317)
I was on the Staten Island Ferry when South Tower collapsed...yes I heard it collapse...it was rolling thunder followed by dust and panic...
Did you hear the sounds War?
#325. To: war (#324)
#326. To: TwentyTwelve (#320)
Nope. A plane impacting and exploding and the out of control fires caused that. I've answered that question several times now. Ask again and you're on bozo, Mr. Jones.
That little fire caused this?:
#327. To: Original_Intent (#318)
The collapse took 13 seconds.
The collapse on the video I used took 6.6 seconds.
#328. To: war (#324)
I was on the Staten Island Ferry when South Tower collapsed...yes I heard it collapse...it was rolling thunder followed by dust and panic... Did you get a live recording of it?
Did you hear the sounds War?
#329. To: litus (#311)
This scarf was said to be worn by hijackers. Amazing condition for being in a plane crash.
NOTE: Body of hijacker missing
#330. To: litus (#311)
#331. To: war (#316)
Do you see that black smoke war? Do you know what that means? It means the fire was oxygen starved. Do you that an oxygen starved fire is not near as hot as one that isn't? So the fire had NOTHING to do with the WTC towers collapsing. The government lied to us. If you want to believe the government, that is your choice. But you are not doing so based on logic, you are doing so based on emotion.
God is always good!
#332. To: TwentyTwelve (#329)
Yes, and what about those pristine passports they "found" the next day? The plane's black boxes didn't make it so I am thinking that they should make them out of whatever amazing material those passports were made with.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#333. To: TwentyTwelve (#329)
The hijacker belonged to the "Bloods"?
This scarf was said to be worn by hijackers. Amazing condition for being in a plane crash. NOTE: Body of hijacker missing
#334. To: war (#327)
#335. To: RickyJ (#331)
I debunked that lie. The color of smoke is an indication of WHAT is burning and not HOW...
It means the fire was oxygen starved.
#336. To: TwentyTwelve (#328)
I have a recording of it I will carry with me to the day I die...
#337. To: TwentyTwelve (#330)
Where's the molten metal?
#338. To: war (#335) (Edited)
You debunked nothing. Black smoke means it was oxygen deprived. An oxygen deprived fire can burn a long time, it just isn't as hot as one that isn't.
I debunked that lie. The color of smoke is an indication of WHAT is burning and not HOW...
God is always good!
#339. To: RickyJ (#338)
Black smoke means it was oxygen deprived. An oxygen deprived fire can burn a long time, it just isn't as hot as one that isn't. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... You FUNNY...almost as funny as 2012 claiming that smoke is the color of what is burning... SMOKE COLOR = Composition of WHAT is burning...
Black smoke means it was oxygen deprived. An oxygen deprived fire can burn a long time, it just isn't as hot as one that isn't.
#340. To: war (#336)
#341. To: war (#339) (Edited)
Wrong. Keep laughing for now stooge, you won't be laughing in hell. BTW, I can easily prove you wrong. You know how? Jet airplanes exhaust, what color is the smoke? You say white? hahah, I thought so. You are proved wrong yet again. It's so easy with you.
SMOKE COLOR = Composition of WHAT is burning...
God is always good!
#342. To: war (#339)
So you think that burning rubber/tires makes white smoke?
You FUNNY...almost as funny as 2012 claiming that smoke is the color of what is burning...
#343. To: war (#336)
Sure you do stooge. After you die, then what? You might want to think long and hard about that.
I have a recording of it I will carry with me to the day I die...
God is always good!
#344. To: whore, war, litus, FormerLurker, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve, christine, Wudidiz, (#316)
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#345. To: war, RickyJ, TwentyTwelve (#335)
Wrong. If the smoke is black it indicates the combustion is inefficient where the fuel is not totally combusted and is creating hydrocarbons. One reason for inefficient combustion is a deficiency in oxygen. A smokeless fire is an efficient fire and burns the hottest. There are MANY things that create black smoke when burning, so no, you really can't tell WHAT is burning by the color of the smoke, but you CAN tell it's not burning efficiently by the fact there IS smoke.
The color of smoke is an indication of WHAT is burning and not HOW...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#346. To: litus (#305)
Ladder 15 had finally found the fire after an arduous climb to the 78th floor, according to the tape. They were in the B stairwell. On the other side of the fire were hundreds of people, blocked from fleeing by smoke and flame on the stairs. Chief Palmer was facing similar fires in the A stairwell, across the floor. ''We're gonna knock down some fire here in the B Stair,'' Lieutenant Leavey is heard telling one of his firefighters. ''We'll meet up with you. You get over to the A Stair and help out Chief Palmer.'' The time was 9:56 a.m. The firefighters had just arrived at a place where, 54 minutes earlier, many people had been waiting for elevators when the second plane came crashing through the building. Now Chief Palmer and Ladder 15 were surrounded by the wounded whom they hoped to evacuate. Excellent information. Those who take the time to actually read newspapers might know about this, but more than likely it never spread to other mainstream news outlets, and was restricted to the NYC print media.
Fire Department Tape Reveals No Awareness of Imminent Doom
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#347. To: war (#303)
Perhaps your pal Ned could help you look for it...
...where's the other banjo?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#348. To: RickyJ (#341)
Wrong.
#349. To: RickyJ (#341)
Exhaust is HEAT FOOL...
Jet airplanes exhaust, what color is the smoke?
#350. To: TwentyTwelve, litus, critter, RickyJ, Any Other Clueless Moonie (#342)
#351. To: RickyJ (#341)
OMG!!!! Where's the smoke?
#352. To: war (#348)
You can copy and paste all day moron, and you are still wrong. The sites you are getting your stuff from are wrong too. You can't think for yourself, can you? Mental midget that you are.
God is always good!
#353. To: RickyJ (#352)
#354. To: RickyJ (#352)
Chyea...damn those stupid Fire Risk Assessors anyway... /moron
The sites you are getting your stuff from are wrong too.
#355. To: TwentyTwelve (#342)
But but but...Black smoke ALWAYS means oxygen starved... /Mooonbats How much money do you make selling this snakeoil, Jonesie?
So you think that burning rubber/tires makes white smoke?
#356. To: RickyJ, TwentyTwelve, litus, critter, Any Other Clueless Moonie (#352)
OMG!!!! Black smoke in a wide open space with plenty o' oxygen!!! MY GOD MAN, don't these wildfires know the rules?!?
#357. To: war (#351)
hehe, You just disproved your argument with your own post and your feeble brain doesn't even realize it. HAHA! You are not even worth my time. Only a moron would be fooled by the likes of you. No smoke = complete combustion = hottest temps Black smoke = incomplete combustion = lower temps White smoke = plenty of oxygen for fire = higher temps than less oxygen which would give you black smoke
God is always good!
#358. To: RickyJ (#357)
Wha...chuckle...huh? You CLAIMED that Jets emit white smoke moron...where's the smoke? You're too stupid to know that "smoke" coming from a jet is, in fact, a contrail which is HOT exhaust hitting COLD air and you ***THINK*** it's smoke anjd now you're treading water in the insane belief that you AREN'T in over your head... 
#359. To: war (#356)
You imbecile! Open spaces does not mean plenty of oxygen for a fire! The fire ITSELF takes up oxygen so that the fire surrounded by the perimeter of a large forest fire will give you black smoke. Duh! Elementary physics moron!
God is always good!
#360. To: RickyJ (#359)
BWAHAHAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHAHAHA... ****GASP**** Somone ****GASP**** make him ****GASP**** STOP PLEASE.... BWAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHA...
Open spaces does [sic] not mean plenty of oxygen for a fire!
#361. To: war (#360) (Edited)
BWAHAHAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHAHAHA... ****GASP**** Somone ****GASP**** make him ****GASP**** STOP PLEASE.... BWAHAHAHA... BWAHAHAHA... I am right jackass. Go ask a physics teacher. Damn your stupid.
Open spaces does not mean plenty of oxygen for a fire! The fire ITSELF takes up oxygen so that the fire surrounded by the perimeter of a large forest fire will give you black smoke
God is always good!
#362. To: RickyJ (#359)
Unlike in structure fires, oxygen is available in unlimited quantities in these open-air fires.
#363. To: war, Original_Intent (#322)
From the article you posted: In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m. But emergency responders inside the tower never got the order to evacuate due to faulty communications equipment and garbled lines of command, investigators with the National Institute of Standards and Technology [NIST] said in its second interim report on the collapse's causes. "The NYPD aviation unit reported critical information about the impending collapse of the buildings," lead investigator Shyam Sunder said at a presentation in midtown. This is information coming from NIST and scientists hired by .gov to fulfill their "role" in making claims for .gov. There are no names of the scientists, there are no names of who within the NYPD made these allegedly claims. OTOH, there is audio, recorded live, by specific individuals with FDNY who, at the time of the recordings, spoke without any agenda other than savings lives of FDNY brothers and innocent victims murdered by .gov.
The World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground, scientists probing the Sept. 11, 2001, disaster said yesterday.
#364. To: RickyJ (#361)
Irony of the day...
Damn your stupid.
#365. To: litus (#363)
What are the names of OI's firemen on [pick a floor]?
#366. To: TwentyTwelve (#329)
heehee
This scarf was said to be worn by hijackers. Amazing condition for being in a plane crash. NOTE: Body of hijacker missing
#367. To: war (#362) (Edited)
More copying and pasting from the retard. Enough of your sorry ass. You CAN'T THINK on your OWN. No wonder you believe the government's fairy tale about 9/11.
God is always good!
#368. To: TwentyTwelve (#330)
How is it possible for a hydrocarbon fire, with maximum temperatures below 1000F, and actual temperatures probably closer to 500F, manage to produce glowing hot steel (approx. 1300F) in the rubble pile weeks later? If, on the other hand, high explosives were used, this is exactly what we would expect to see. High explosives produce temperatures in excess of 5000F and cut through steel "like a razor through a tomato." The steel core columns at the base of the towers were so massive it would have required quite a lot of whatever explosive was used. We would expect the residual heat from those explosives to persist for weeks in the confined spaces at the base of the rubble pile Molten steel was seen flowing from the tower even before the collapse:
Three weeks after the collapse, temperatures inside the rubble pile were still hot enough for steel to be glowing red-hot
#369. To: Critter (#344)
no response?!
How Does This Building Collapse Symmetrically?
#370. To: FormerLurker, Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve (#346) (Edited)
No, none of this was broadcast...even if was, it was done so obscurely and glossed over, never emphasized. Also in that article can be read the following: ''Chief, I'm going to stop on 44,'' Stephen Belson, an aide to Chief Palmer, tells him at 9:25 as he ascends. ''Take your time,'' the chief responds.Those who take the time to actually read newspapers might know about this, but more than likely it never spread to other mainstream news outlets, and was restricted to the NYC print media.
".....nowhere on the tape is there any indication that firefighters had the slightest indication that the tower had become unstable or that it could fall."
In no way does this suggest any of them had any concerns about structural supports giving way.
#371. To: war (#365) (Edited)
LISTEN to the tape...you'll hear the names for yourself. I did. Perhaps it might even make you shed a tear about those murdered by the government you worship.
What are the names of OI's firemen on [pick a floor]?
#372. To: war (#362) (Edited)
Unlimited quantities? FUNNY! Only around the perimeter surface of a raging forest fire would there be sufficient oxygen for white smoke only. All areas in the middle will be oxygen starved in a raging forest fire. Oxygen starved by the fire surrounding it. Duh! Does it hurt to be so stupid? If so you must be in a lot of pain.
Unlike in structure fires, oxygen is available in unlimited quantities in these open-air fires.
God is always good!
#373. To: war (#365)
Since you can't seem to think on your own and do not even consider that a poster on this forum using their own brain can figure things out without searching the Internet and doing a mindless copy and paste, then here is a copy paste for you to ponder. hehe, how does it feel to eat crow jackass? Solid fuels also undergo a great number of pyrolysis reactions that give more easily oxidized, gaseous fuels. These reactions are endothermic and require constant energy input from the combustion reactions. A lack of oxygen or other poorly designed conditions result in these noxious and carcinogenic pyrolysis products being emitted as thick, black smoke.
God is always good!
#374. To: RickyJ (#372)
That's a professional publication for firefighters you're arguing against. Feel free to post your own source which counters it... O/I'll wait...
Unlimited quantities? FUNNY!
#375. To: RickyJ (#373)
BWAHAHAHAHAHA...you just get better and better with each passing moment... You should have looked some of those words up, simp...you just blew both of your own feet off... /moron3rd
#376. To: litus (#369)
It's been asked and answered going weeks, shill... How else was it supposed to collapse?
no response?!
#377. To: war (#376)
Not on its own footprint.
#378. To: war (#374)
No, that's an idiotic moronic statement from someone that doesn't know the first thing about physics where ever the hell it comes from you stupid fool. The fact you can't recognize that tells me you are incredibly stupid.
That's a professional publication for firefighters you're arguing against.
God is always good!
#379. To: war (#374)
No, I am not a copy paste brainless government fool like you. I can think for myself.
Feel free to post your own source which counters it...
God is always good!
#380. To: war (#376)
Not symmetrically from asymmetrical damage! How stupid can you be?
How else was it supposed to collapse?
God is always good!
#381. To: RickyJ (#380)
The failure was symmetrical, dipshit...
Not symmetrically from asymmetrical damage!
#382. To: RickyJ (#378)
PHYSICS?!? ROFLMAO... COMMON SENSE... The name of the publication, jackass, is Fundamentals Of Fire Fighter Skills and it's published by the INternational Association of Chiefs... You are just so fucking stupid...
No, that's an idiotic moronic statement from someone that doesn't know the first thing about physics where ever the hell it comes from you stupid fool. The fact you can't recognize that tells me you are incredibly stupid.
#383. To: litus (#377)
WHERE did you ***think*** it should fall...?
Not on its own footprint.
#384. To: war, RickyJ (#381)
The failure was symmetrical, dipshit... hmmm that's what Ricky said, the failure was symmetrical, but shouldn't have been since the damage was asymmetrical. Duh.
Not symmetrically from asymmetrical damage!
#385. To: war (#383)
Since you claim it was not a controlled demolition, in a way other than exactly how it actually fell: onto its own footprint. That type of collapse is certainly consistent with controlled demolition, especially since it was not 1, not 2, but 3 buildings which fell the same way that day. This is unheard of consistency in collapse and 2 unrelated to the 3rd as to alleged cause.
#386. To: war (#381)
Me > Not symmetrically from asymmetrical damage! You(lol) > The failure was symmetrical, dipshit... Do have brain damage dude?
You > How was it suppose to collapse?
God is always good!
#387. To: war (#382)
Listen here you brain dead stooge. I could care less who published that crap. Bullshit is bullshit where ever it comes from. The fact you can't recognize bullshit when you see it says a lot about your IQ level.
The name of the publication, jackass, is Fundamentals Of Fire Fighter Skills and it's published by the INternational Association of Chiefs...
God is always good!
#388. To: litus (#384)
You're of the "mind" that only the north face of 2 and the south face of 1 was damaged?
the failure was symmetrical, but shouldn't have been since the damage was asymmetrical.
#389. To: RickyJ (#387)
ROFLMAI.,...riiiight,...because what do firefighters know about anything, least alone, fire. An anonymous internet Moonbat ***thinking*** for himself knows much, much more. Keep that in mind as OI posts about what firemen observed on [pick a floor] in the building. They were probably wrong becasue what they know is "crap", right? [snicker] Did you notice that Jonesie has abandoned this thread? At least he knows when he's beaten...
since the damage was asymmetrical.
#390. To: litus (#385)
You're talking past me dude...make your case as to WHY it should not have fallen as it did...explain the physics...
#391. To: war (#390)
Why are you still here? Why do you like wasting people's time?
#392. To: TwentyTwelve, litus, Wudidiz, christine, war, the Whore, all (#391)
Probably several motivations: 1. An honest discussion of the events of 911 and all the anomalies that point at an intentional, premeditated, explosive demolition must, from the point of view of those controlling the PsyOp, cannot remain undisrupted. 2. Whenever a shill is countered effectively they dry to drag the thread out to put the incriminating posts out of view. 3. He/She/It is a scum sucking, shit eating dog, of a quisling traitor who would gladly load people into Cattle Cars to be shipped off and liquidated.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#393. To: RickyJ (#386)
Me > Not symmetrically from asymmetrical damage! You(lol) > The failure was symmetrical, dipshit... Do have brain damage dude? Yes, and is also an ethically reprehensible scumbag, but that is beside the point. When you are dealing with a professional disinformation operative they will never, never, The tactics they employ can always be found in: You > How was it suppose to collapse?
under any circumstance respond to a question, honestly, that puts the Official Fair Tale under legitimate
examination. Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#394. To: Original_Intent, litus, Wudidiz, christine, war, the Whore, all (#392)
1. An honest discussion of the events of 911 and all the anomalies that point at an intentional, premeditated, explosive demolition must, from the point of view of those controlling the PsyOp, cannot remain undisrupted. 2. Whenever a shill is countered effectively they dry to drag the thread out to put the incriminating posts out of view. 3. He/She/It is a scum sucking, shit eating dog, of a quisling traitor who would gladly load people into Cattle Cars to be shipped off and liquidated. NufffRespect October 05, 2008 Key Witness to WTC 7 Explosions Dead at 53 Emergency coordinator for the New York Housing Authority, and key 9/11 eyewitness, Barry Jennings has passed away with controversy about WTC7 still hot as the BBC hit piece and NIST report have been released to counter Jennings exclusive testimony of explosions inside Building 7. Jennings passed away at age 53 from circumstances not yet disclosed. A spokesperson for the Housing Authority has now confirmed his death, after weeks of rumors circulating online, but refused to give any further details. Several other individuals at the Housing Authority also confirmed that they knew Barry Jennings, and that indeed he had passed away about a month ago. No other details were available. No one has yet been able to contact anyone in the Jennings family and the official cause of death is not yet known, but online comments have reported the date of death as August 19, 2008. It is very unusual that a prominent — and controversial 9/11 witness would die only days before the release of NIST's report on WTC7 and shortly after a firestorm erupted over his testimony that he heard explosions inside the building prior to collapse of either tower and that there were dead bodies in the buildings blown-out lobby. The BBC aired The Third Tower in July in attempt to debunk Barry Jennings' account, which is both contradictory and damaging to the official 9/11 story by making issue over whether or not he said he saw dead bodies in the lobby. Yet Jennings' own statement in an exclusive interview with Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas, which has not been denied was: "The fire fighter who took us down kept saying, Don't look down. And I said, Why?.. And we were stepping over people, you know, you can feel when you're stepping over people." Now the release of Jason Bermas Fabled Enemies is giving further exposure to Jennings' controversial account. The film features a full interview with Barry Jennings, as well as the statements he and Michael Hess, who was also trapped with him inside WTC7, made to news media on the day of the attacks. Barry Jennings reiterated in the exclusive interview his confusion over the explanation for WTC7s collapse given that he clearly heard explosions inside the building. That interview was not released until June 2008 at the request of Mr. Jennings, who had received numerous threats to his job and asked that it be left out of Loose Change: Final Cut because of those threats. Jennings statements have lit fire to questions about what really caused the sudden collapse of WTC7 just as NIST had hoped the release of their report would quash widespread beliefs that the building was brought down by controlled demolition. News of Jennings' death comes on the heels of losing another 9/11 hero and eyewitness Kenny Johannemann, who reportedly committed suicide 12 days before the seventh anniversary of 9/11. Johannemann is credited with saving at least one mans life on 9/11 and was also a witness to explosions in the towers. NIST's report, as well as that of the 9/11 Commission (which did not even mention WTC7), completely ignored statements from the building leaseholder Larry Silverstein as well as numerous police, fire fighters and other eyewitnesses who have testified that they were warned about the buildings collapse and told to get back. One rescue worker even heard a countdown for the buildings implosion. The truth about WTC7 will come out, and Barry Jennings' testimony will not be in vain. Category: News & Politics Tags: 911 barry jennings wtc7 witness explosions bombs dead bodies building 9/11 coincidences silverstein giuliani NIST mystery collapse hess witnesses bbc conspiracy files documentary controlled demolition new world order nwo illuminati cnn fox news
Probably several motivations:
#395. To: Original_Intent, litus, Wudidiz, christine, war, the Whore, all (#392)
1. An honest discussion of the events of 911 and all the anomalies that point at an intentional, premeditated, explosive demolition must, from the point of view of those controlling the PsyOp, cannot remain undisrupted. 2. Whenever a shill is countered effectively they dry to drag the thread out to put the incriminating posts out of view. 3. He/She/It is a scum sucking, shit eating dog, of a quisling traitor who would gladly load people into Cattle Cars to be shipped off and liquidated. www.prisonplanet.com/witn...on-911-kills-himself.html Suicide of hero WTC janitor raises suspicions among truth groups Steve Watson Friday, September 5, 2008 A janitor who worked in one of the World Trade Center towers and helped save lives on 9/11, in addition to witnessing what he described as “explosions” in the tower basement, has committed suicide. The New York Daily News reported yesterday that Kenny Johannemann shot himself in the head last Sunday, August 31, 2008. Mr Johannemann’s suicide note stated that he was taking his own life as he was being evicted and could not handle homelessness. The note also stated that since 9/11 he had become depressed and had been drinking. Here is the entire text of the note, a picture of which can be found here, as reported in the Daily News: “The reason I killed myself was ’cause I was getting evicted and can’t handle homelessness. I was also very depressed since I was in 9/11. I’ve been drinking way too much and it’s ruined my life. I’ve lost friends and family over drinking and I’m very lonely. There is nothing left for me to be happy about other than my cat. Sounds weird, but it’s true. I just wanted to say I’m sorry 2 any people I ever hurt in my life. I really was a good person when I wasn’t drinking. I hope people remember that. Goodbye!!! Kenny Johannemann According to the Daily News report, relatives found another letter next to his suicide note. The second letter (right), dated October 31 2001 and type written on White House stationery featuring the president’s signature, was an acknowledgement of Johannemann’s bravery on 9/11. Read the full story at Infowars.net.
Probably several motivations:
#396. To: TwentyTwelve (#395)
Promoting your website, Jonesie? Not too shameless, eh? Must be time to make another Ferrari payment....only 24 left to go, eh? So...what's on sale there today besides the usual bullshit...excuse the pun...
#397. To: war (#396)
Getting nervous Mr. Shill? You know that you and your bosses have been exposed.
So...what's on sale there today besides the usual bullshit...excuse the pun...
#398. To: TwentyTwelve (#397)
ROFLMAO...about what? Oops...a question... On the other hand, Jonesie, you've been weighed and measured. Why won't you answer a question?
Getting nervous Mr. Shill?
#399. To: war (#398)
Nice try Mr. Shill. You need a new script. You are getting very boring.
Why won't you answer a question?
#400. To: TwentyTwelve (#397)
Getting nervous Mr. Shill? You know that you and your bosses have been exposed. I have just so little tolerance left for shills at this point. Hang'em. Just fucking hang them. Slowly.
So...what's on sale there today besides the usual bullshit...excuse the pun...
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#401. To: TwentyTwelve (#399)
Start with...why is there black smoke coming from fires in which there is an unlimited supply of oxygen?
Why won't you answer a question?
#402. To: Original_Intent (#400)
Chuckles...what floor are the firemen on today?
#403. To: Original_Intent (#400)
Getting nervous Mr. Shill? You know that you and your bosses have been exposed. I have just so little tolerance left for shills at this point. Hang'em. Just fucking hang them. Slowly. The shills are getting very worried. They better get prepared for what is coming.
So...what's on sale there today besides the usual bullshit...excuse the pun...
#404. To: war (#390)
Physicists and engineers already have. Make your case as to how 3 buildings inexplicably fell onto their own footprint..........and not even for the same reason. Even the "official fairy tale" has no explanation for why WTC7 was the "only collapse in history" due to fire.
make your case as to WHY it should not have fallen as it did...explain the physics...
#405. To: litus, Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#404)
war should look for a new job. war is embarrassing his bosses.
Even the "official fairy tale" has no explanation for why WTC7 was the "only collapse in history" due to fire.
#406. To: TwentyTwelve, Original_Intent, FormerLurker, war (#405) (Edited)
war is embarrassing his bosses. war should look for a new job.
#407. To: war (#388)
You're of the "mind" that only the north face of 2 and the south face of 1 was damaged? No. I'm of the mind that the damage was asymmetrical, yet the collapse was almost perfectly symmetrical. Amazing feat of "nature" never seen 3 times in one day previously, until 9/11.
the failure was symmetrical, but shouldn't have been since the damage was asymmetrical.
#408. To: litus (#407)
Just amazing how that worked. I suspect it was all due to that Magickal Jet Fuel™. Some of it must have splashed on 7 because no plane hit it. That sure was some bad stuff and I hope they only made that one batch.
Amazing feat of "nature" never seen 3 times in one day previously, until 9/11.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#409. To: James Deffenbach (#408)
Good morning, James. Hope you're feeling better today. LOL!!! It's a good thing you won't have to worry about getting splashed by that MJF!! :0}
I suspect it was all due to that Magickal Jet Fuel™. Some of it must have splashed on 7 because no plane hit it.
#410. To: litus (#409)
Thanks litus. I am feeling some better today. On the second day of the macrobiotic diet, so far so good I guess.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#411. To: litus (#404)
Nope...an insignificant minority have and to date they have been unable to sway not only the OVERWHELMING majority of their peers but also come up with any kind of explanation that isn't easily bitch slapped by a layman. I know...I know...the GOOBERMINT paid them all off or threatened them...[snicker] Proferssor [sic] Jones was laughed out of his department at BYU. That's El Aye YOU Gee Ayche Eee Dee LAUGHED. This latest "protest" of yours..."But...but...but...the DAMAGE Was assymetircal...blah blah beep beep bloop..." You believe if throw an 8th grade word in there that all of a sudden you've raised a major issue...the fact is the IMPACT was assymetrical...given how the plane exploded inside and hit the core there is no reason to NOT conclude SYMMETRICAL damage led to SYMMETRICAL failure. And, not one of you Moonbats have answered the question: HOW ELSE WAS IT SUPPOSED TO FALL?
Physicists and engineers already have
#412. To: war (#411)
no need to shout, asston. since wtcs1, 2, & 7 were well-executed demolitions, they fell exactly as intended. the discovery of active thermitic material (psst: thread subject) is evidence that a forthright skeptic ought admit jibes with a thinking person's suspicion based on ocular assessment--demolition. free fall's another. just a reminder. back to the regularly scheduled blithering, reality-denying selective inference and blethering dissembling. cheers
HOW ELSE WAS IT SUPPOSED TO FALL?
#413. To: James Deffenbach (#410)
Good news! the second day of the macrobiotic diet this consists of? no fries, pop, coffee..... : {
I am feeling some better today.
#414. To: litus (#404)
As has been pointed out their case is weak and does not withstand scrutiny. It can't even convince their peers. Even the "official fairy tale" has no explanation for why WTC7 was the "only collapse in history" due to fire. Wel;ll that's just plain a lie. The collapse of 7 HAS been explained. your case as to how 3 buildings inexplicably fell onto their own footprint.......... You need to look up the word "inexplicably" because what you think it means it does not. And you keep using the footprint nonsense as it should mean something...you've yet to offer any explanation about how YOU believe they shoul;d have collapsed...
Physicists and engineers already have.
#415. To: litus (#413)
Yeah, among lots of other things. But if it will help me get better and feel better I can eat it for ten days. Heck, I could go ten days without food and would do so gladly if I thought it would cure the gout (but as far as I know there is no "cure" for it, only things you can do to try to prevent it).
this consists of? no fries, pop, coffee..... : {
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#416. To: TwentyTwelve (#399)
You need a new script. You are getting very boring. ROFLMAO...thus spaketh Jonesie whose posts have varied not... Why won't you answer a question?
#417. To: war (#411)
You must the the world's dumbest shill of all time. Who trained you?
HOW ELSE WAS IT SUPPOSED TO FALL?
#418. To: war (#414)
No, it hasn't. It has been propagandized. That's a distinction with a difference!
The collapse of 7 HAS been explained.
#419. To: war (#416)
You need a new script. You are getting very boring.
Why won't you answer a question?
#420. To: James Deffenbach (#415)
A better and more healthy diet is Fat Flush...I shed my winter weight rather quicklyt with it...but I aslo train 5 days a week in which I swim bike and/or run...
#421. To: James Deffenbach (#415)
I once went 5 days. 10 would be pretty difficult. : ) But I hear ya....being in constant pain is awful, exhausting, and debilitating. I'd be doing whatever I could try to do too to stop chronic pain. No fun!
I could go ten days without food
#422. To: TwentyTwelve (#419)
ROFLMAO...thus spaketh Jonesie whose posts have varied not...
#423. To: litus (#418)
Nope. In fact, its collpase has a very detailed explanation. Here's hint: Propaganda doesn't use physics and engineering... PLease explain to me how a building which had raging fires in it and which collapse started on one side mid structure and also had the top collpase was brought down by thermite being activated... Thanks...btw, a quick count reveals this is at least the 8th time that I have asked this quesiton and not gotten an answer...
No, it hasn't. It has been propagandized.
#424. To: litus (#418)
That's a distinction with a difference! I bees explainin' 'bout 7 eber blesset day! It wuz de Magickal Jet Fuel™.
No, it hasn't. It has been propagandized.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#425. To: litus (#421)
I agree. 10 is difficult.
I once went 5 days. 10 would be pretty difficult. : )
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#426. To: war (#423)
Oh really? Yet more propaganda from you. Who's your teacher, Goebbels?? His words always focus on the central ideas of our people, our nation, and our race. He can express things in a thousand different ways. The listener never feels that he has heard it before. The masses hear the same major ideas of our national renaissance in ever new forms. There is nothing doctrinaire in his style. If he makes an assertion, it is proven by a multitude of examples. The examples are not taken only from the experiences of a particular area or class, thus leaving everyone else untouched. They come from everywhere in the nation, such that each is spoken to. They are chosen with such care that even the blindest opponent must in the end grant that, unlike the parliamentary speakers, this man believes what he says. Here's hint: Propaganda doesn't use physics and engineering...
An historic figure who has such impact must command all the skills of the spoken word. That is the case with the Führer. He speaks as confidently before workers as before scientists. His words strike deep into the hearts of farmers and city-dwellers. When he speaks to children, they are deeply moved. The magic of his voice reaches men's secret feelings. He translates historical philosophy into the language of the people. He has the ability to call up long forgotten history and make those who hear him feel as if they had always known about it. There is no element of superiority in his speaking, the kind of thing one sees in the speeches of the educated.
#427. To: James Deffenbach (#424)
Zactly!!
It wuz de Magickal Jet Fuel™.
#428. To: James Deffenbach (#425)
I wouldn't want to try that.
10 is difficult.
#429. To: war (#389)
If this was my forum you would be banned by now stooge. I can't stand traitors. You better enjoy your life here on Earth, it is all the heaven you will ever know.
God is always good!
#430. To: litus (#426)
Did you read what you posted?> You can't even define gravity...it makes you a PERFECT target...
His words always focus on the central ideas of our people, our nation, and our race.
#431. To: RickyJ (#429)
If this was my forum I'd insist that you get a ten word vocabulary list every week with a quiz on Fridays so that after a year you MIGHT be able to hold an intelligent conversation.
If this was my forum you would be banned by now stooge.
#432. To: war (#430)
It's obvious, war, that all you are capable of typing is propaganda. You will say whatever you think it takes, including lies, in your efforts to say anything you can think of to "make it seem like" what you say carries weight and authority. Those are methods of propaganda, something that Goebbels knew much about. So does .gov with its psyops. You are one of its creations.
#433. To: war (#431)
Do you have a chip in your brain? Are you programmed?
#434. To: TwentyTwelve (#433)
.msatter Jonesie? Cutting into your "sales"? Have 100 monkeys type up another book for ya...
#435. To: litus (#432)
To date you have proved that I have lied exactly 0 times. I can;t say the same for me about you, tho...
including lies
#436. To: war (#435)
No, multiple of us have discovered you've lied at least 12 times fofl!
#437. To: litus (#413)
this consists of? no fries, pop, coffee..... : {
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#438. To: All (#412)
#439. To: James Deffenbach (#437)
"If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all"... sad but true.
lol!!
#440. To: litus (#439) (Edited)
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#441. To: James Deffenbach (#440)
too funny. That works. : ) My pleasure! Thanks much. Made me laugh.
#442. To: war (#411)
I don't find these people to be an "insignificant minority"... bitch slapped by a layman The only bitch slapping you've done is what you've done to your mom when she tries to pull you out of the basement so that you get out and find a job.
Nope...an insignificant minority have
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#443. To: FormerLurker, War (#442)
haaaaaaaa! I think that's what the doc may have done to war's mother after he was born....
The only bitch slapping you've done is what you've done to your mom when she tries to pull you out of the basement so that you get out and find a job.
#444. To: litus (#441)
You're welcome. I deleted it because I was afraid it would start playing every time someone opened the thread and I hate when that happens. I just wanted to see if the coding was good.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#445. To: war, litus (#430)
Go ahead professor war, define gravity. Don't tell us what it does, but what it IS.
You can't even define gravity...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#446. To: litus, war (#443)
That's probably true.
I think that's what the doc may have done to war's mother after he was born....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#447. To: FormerLurker, war (#445)
LOL!!
Go ahead professor war, define gravity. Don't tell us what it does, but what it IS.
#448. To: war (#414)
Are you trying to say you explained it by the wind blowing it down, or did it just fall over because people were shaking it from the bottom?
The collapse of 7 HAS been explained.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#449. To: FormerLurker, war (#446)
I'm almost certain of it.
#450. To: FormerLurker (#448)
Omg...too funny, FL.
or did it just fall over because people were shaking it from the bottom?
#451. To: James Deffenbach (#444)
It was. I didn't automatically play when I loaded the screen, but maybe it would with others. I didn't realize it would do that (yes, that could be annoying).
#452. To: FormerLurker (#448)
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#453. To: FormerLurker (#448)
Was there some kind of super hurricane that day too? I don't recall any, at least not in New York.
Are you trying to say you explained it by the wind blowing it down, or did it just fall over because people were shaking it from the bottom?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#454. To: litus (#443)
LOL!
I think that's what the doc may have done to war's mother after he was born....
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#455. To: James Deffenbach, FormerLurker (#453)
Gale force winds must have come from the Magikal Jet Fuel
#456. To: James Deffenbach (#454)
*grins*
#457. To: litus (#455)
That's some bad stuff. I sure hope they don't ever make another batch of that. I hope they lost the formula for it. Atom bombs are safer.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#458. To: James Deffenbach (#457)
ROFLMAO!
#459. To: litus (#436)
Oddly missing is the list of those lies....
No, multiple of us have discovered you've lied at least 12 times
#460. To: war (#459)
It's not missing. I've seen several of them posted to you already...but you decided you disagree.
#461. To: litus (#443)
Why am I not surprosed that you reveal yourself as a low life piece of shit. If you were 1/3 of a man you'd keep it among men...instead you have to attack an 88 year old women racked with Parkison's who kept a wonderful household and raised 4 kids who all graduated form college...what an absolute scum sucking piece of eboli infested maggot puke you are...
I think that's what the doc may have done to war's mother after he was born....
#462. To: litus (#460)
I know. It's just not available on the internet.
It's not missing
#463. To: war (#461)
Your mother was 88 when she had you?
#464. To: war (#462)
It is available on the internet...right on this thread. Posts you are now denying exist. Wow. What an active imagination you have.
#465. To: litus (#455)
You must mean its magical powers to avoid exploding as the plane is ripped to shreds but manages to explode AFTER and not INSIDE where the plane disintegrated but outside where the plane is not...
#466. To: litus (#464)
I'm not going around the circle with you here, Moonie. Either buck them up or shut the fuck up.
Posts you are now denying exist.
#467. To: litus (#463)
You're not worth the spittle that dribbles from your mouth. TTFN
#468. To: war (#465)
yeah, the fuel burnt itself out within 10 minutes or so, I believe I recall reading....are you claiming the fuel exploded the plane and ripped it to shreds?
its magical powers to avoid exploding
#469. To: war (#466)
they've been posted already. If you couldn't be bothered reading them the first time, you must think I'm an idiot to repost them to you again.
#470. To: war (#467)
Coming from a Judas.....I could care less what your opinion is of me.
#471. To: James Deffenbach (#453)
It happened when the cameras weren't looking, just ask war...
Was there some kind of super hurricane that day too? I don't recall any, at least not in New York.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#472. To: war (#461) (Edited)
So why do you bitch slap her war? Does it make you feel like a real man?
an 88 year old women racked with Parkison's who kept a wonderful household
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#473. To: war (#465)
Hey shit for brains, it IGNITED inside the building but happened to be traveling over 500 mph so it continued on its way OUTSIDE the building along with other remnants of the planes. Idiot.
You must mean its magical powers to avoid exploding as the plane is ripped to shreds but manages to explode AFTER and not INSIDE where the plane disintegrated but outside where the plane is not...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#474. To: war (#467) (Edited)
AH, now we descend down to homo jokes. Are you a fag, or do you just play one on the Internet?
You're not worth the spittle [Edited due to an over the top obscene remark by war]
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#475. To: war (#467)
war, that is really crude and disgusting. there's nothing litus has posted that warranted it either. you have an edit button.
#476. To: war (#388) (Edited)
Of course it was damaged. It's not magical damage that causes symmetrical collapse though, just damage due to a jet airplane crashing into it. Did it cover the whole side of one building, NO. Was the building over engineered to handle loads differently if there was damage to one side like on 9/11, Yep, sure was, it was designed just for that sort of exterior damage due to a plane crashing into it. Did the towers survive jet planes crashing into them at full speed and nearly full fuel? They sure did, they only collapsed when the remote control explosives were set off at precisely at the time the fire fighters reported there were only TWO pockets of fire and there were MULTIPLE survivors on a plane IMPACT floor. The "inferno" wasn't hot enough to kill these humans, but NIST and the government wants you to believe it was hot enough to bring the buildings down. They are full of shit and you know it stooge. Just like you are full of shit. No go back and tell your superiors we are too bright for you. You are tired of taking a whipping here and need a forum with less intelligent people on it to shill for them. BeAChooser was a stooge as well, but he beat the heck out of you intellectually on this forum.
You're of the "mind" that only the north face of 2 and the south face of 1 was damaged?
God is always good!
#477. To: RickyJ (#476)
Actually, in a lot of ways BAC steered myself and others towards the real data concerning 9/11, and was perhaps doing so not by accident, who knows... If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have dug through so much material in order to prove him wrong.
BeAChooser was a stooge as well, but he beat the heck out of you intellectually on this forum.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#478. To: RickyJ, war (#476)
bumping that!
...Did the towers survive jet planes crashing into them at full speed and nearly full fuel? They sure did, they only collapsed when the remote control explosives were set off at precisely at the time the fire fighters reported there were only TWO pockets of fire and their were MULTIPLE survivors on a plane IMPACT floor. The "inferno" wasn't hot enough to kill these humans, but NIST and the government wants you to believe it was hot enough to bring the buildings down. They are full of shit...
#479. To: FormerLurker, christine (#477)
If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have dug through so much material in order to prove him wrong. That's what I used to say, even at the time, when i would read those 1000 post threads about the various details of 9/11.. the hacks/ government apologists did bring up a lot of points which were sometimes valid questions and led people to do more specific research. I dont generally have patience or attention span for such threads, but one such example i did research on at lp was fema being at ground zero on 9/10, when some hack claimed it was a lie,; one neocon site said it was an urban legend, involving the name kennedy and kenney, etc. and and i spelled it out, in the end the hack admiitted i was right and that fema did indeed admit it was there on 9/10. they actually thanked me for pointing the links out and admitted they were wrong.
Actually, in a lot of ways BAC steered myself and others towards the real data concerning 9/11, and was perhaps doing so not by accident, who knows...
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#480. To: christine (#475)
There was no reason to attack my mom.
#481. To: litus (#468)
Who cares how long the fuel took to "burn out"? How long does charcoal lighter fluid take to "burn out"? You folks blather on about he "devastating" fire of 1975 in the WTC and of other high rises but suddenly in WTC on 9/11 the fuel is gone and there is no fire any where else. Logic is once again your enemy...as for your assymetric nonsense...the plane impacted one side but affected an area much WIDER than its impact through its inertia and explosion...
yeah, the fuel burnt itself out within 10 minutes or so...
#482. To: war (#481)
Who cares how long the fuel took to "burn out"? Who cares about facts. War is on the case. an area much WIDER than its impact through its inertia and explosion... We'll never know quite how much was damaged, because the evidence was destroyed and carted away by your friends. And by the way kero is not an explosive. It's at best a subsonic propellant. It doesn't rank with the crackerjack stuff that it took to bring these buildings down.
Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com
#483. To: war (#480)
there have been plenty of insults posted on this thread but yours was over the top and has been edited.
#484. To: randge (#482)
The FACT is, the fuel acted as an accelerant... We'll never know quite how much was damaged, because the evidence was destroyed and carted away by your friends. ROFLMAO...the building COLLAPSED...knowing how much was damaged by the impact and explosion and subsequent fires is pretty apparent...but if that isn't enough more than the impact zone of the towers was blown out...
Who cares about facts.
#485. To: war, litus (#461)
Just living to eighty eight while having Parkinson's is quite an achievement. But really Litus knew nothing about this and you know it.
#486. To: war (#484)
You guys couldn't get it out of the country fast enough.
Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com
#487. To: randge, war (#482)
Who cares about facts. War is on the case. Exactly. We'll never know quite how much was damaged, because the evidence was destroyed and carted away by your friends. A point I have repeatedly made but which he repeatedly refuses to address and/or indicate is one of the strongest flaws in .gov's "findings of fact" being taken as credible.
Who cares how long the fuel took to "burn out"?
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#488. To: christine (#483)
There was no reason to mention my mom.
#489. To: mininggold (#485)
There was no reason to mention my mom.
#490. To: litus (#487)
The evidence was destroyed when the building collpased...
because the evidence was destroyed
#491. To: litus (#487)
The evidence was destroyed when the plane was ripped to shreds and exploded...
#492. To: mininggold, war (#485)
Of course he knows this. It was a lame excuse proffered after his over the top vulgarities. War, I didn't "attack" your mother. What I said is such an old joke that no one could seriously take it as any kind of "personal" attack. Had someone made the same "attack" about my mother, who didn't even live half as long as your mother, who still lives, it would not have had any affect whatsoever. You're pathetic.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#493. To: litus (#492)
There was no reason to mention my mom.
You're pathetic.
#494. To: war (#493)
There's no reason for you to be a paid .gov shill. Twice as pathetic.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#495. To: litus (#494)
I'm not. I make my living in the private sector. Always have. There's no reason for you to be stupid and not get paid. Look at Jonesie here...aka 2012...how much money have you sent him?
There's no reason for you to be a paid .gov shill.
#496. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#495)
Ah...so that's your justification for including TwentyTwelve in your disgusting, crude, and vulgar comment to me? Because TT listens to someone who tells the truth, as opposed to you, who do nothing but post disinformation and lies?
Look at Jonesie here...aka 2012...how much money have you sent him?
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#497. To: litus (#492)
Caught in yet another lie: #461. To: litus (#443) I think that's what the doc may have done to war's mother after he was born.... Why am I not surprosed that you reveal yourself as a low life piece of shit. If you were 1/3 of a man you'd keep it among men...instead you have to attack an 88 year old women racked with Parkison's who kept a wonderful household and raised 4 kids who all graduated form college...what an absolute scum sucking piece of eboli infested maggot puke you are... war posted on 2009-04-11 20:30:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply #467. To: litus (#463) You're not worth the spittle that dribbles from your mouth. TTFN war posted on 2009-04-11 20:36:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply As you can see it was "proffered" [sic] before.
It was a lame excuse proffered after his over the top vulgarities.
#498. To: litus (#496)
Do you know how many times Jonesie has been caught lying?
TT listens to someone who tells the truth
#499. To: war (#488)
Maybe you should put all your unmentionables on your poster page so we can all know which eggshells not to walk on.
There was no reason to mention my mom.
#500. To: mininggold (#499)
What is so hard about keeping things between each other? There is no reason to attack spouses, parents, children etc. None. It's a basic rule of life among men...and if you think that I conjured this up just recently...here My mom is not fair game and damn the consequences to me for defending that tenet...
#501. To: war, TwentyTwelve (#497)
You didn't mention your mother's health until after my comment to FL. It is you who is lying. Furthermore, TwentyTwelve had absolutely nothing to do with my post, yet you included him into your foul and over the top, disgustingly crude attack against me. My post was to FormerLurker and TT never even commented upon it. You can't even tell the truth about the order of events on a thread which expose your lies but you expect to be taken as credible on other matters? Right!
As you can see it was "proffered" [sic] before.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#502. To: war (#500)
boo friggin hoo.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#503. To: litus (#501)
You'll never get it because you have no honor.
You didn't mention your mother's health
#504. To: war (#500)
On these boards once a poster slings mud they and everything about them real or imagined are fair game. If you don't like it, don't sling the mud, it's really that simple.
at is so hard about keeping things between each other? There is no reason to attack spouses, parents, children etc. None. It's a basic rule of life among men...and if you think that I conjured this up just recently...
#505. To: war (#503)
Stay off the internet if your feelings are so easily overcome when mere dust falls upon you. OTOH, you sure don't have a problem with slinging mud.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#506. To: mininggold, war (#504)
That's a fact.
If you don't like it, don't sling the mud, it's really that simple.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#507. To: mininggold, litus (#504)
Save the lecture...my days on the internet go back to 1995 to MSN and the Discuss and Debate bulletin board. I have 0 problem with being attacked personally. That said, there is no reason to attack ANYONE'S mom. PERIOD. End of discussion. If you don't get it you never will. We don't share the same sense of honor. I'd like to say that it shocks me that we don't but, sadly, it doesn't. Let me ask you a question...someone attacks you on a thread to another poster and doesn't PING you...is that a breach of posting etiquete? Of course it is...how then, is it okay to attack a guy's mom?
On these boards once a poster slings mud they and everything about them real or imagined are fair game.
#508. To: litus (#505)
Feel free to point out when that has extended to your family... Thanks...
you sure don't have a problem with slinging mud.
#509. To: war (#508)
get over yourself and your over the top faux "outrage" already. 'Your mom' jokes are so popular because they don't discriminate between the person you're telling the joke to. They are not created to be racial or sexist jokes and because of this can be enjoyed by everyone and told to anyone. Some of my favorites are: Your mama's so ugly that when you were born they slapped her!
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#510. To: FormerLurker (#477) (Edited)
Well I did some equations to see how much air resistance would slow down just one floor of the WTC towers falling from the top of the building with nothing to collide with on the way down and I found out it was insignificant compared to falling in a vacuum. It was insignificant due to the significant mass of the floor. But just one collision would have slowed it down considerably. On 9/11 there were "allegedly" over 100 of those collisions, still it fell at close to free fall speed. That of course is impossible.
God is always good!
#511. To: Original_Intent, TwentyTwelve (#477) (Edited)
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html Questions For NTSB/FBI Regarding Flight Data Recorder Information NTSB REFUSES TO ELABORATE OR ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS....
[credit to Critter for passing on info. about this website]
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#512. To: Critter (#511)
courtesy ping to my 511
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#513. To: FormerLurker, war (#442) (Edited)
bitch slapped by a layman It's become obvious to me you hit a nerve FL when you posted the above, so war resorted to the typical .gov propagandist attempts to siderail and distract. To that I say: good job!
I don't find these people to be an "insignificant minority"...
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#514. To: litus (#513)
FL has been on bozo for weeks...
It's become obvious to me you hit a nerve FL
#515. To: RickyJ (#510)
No it didn't...
still it fell at close to free fall speed
#516. To: RickyJ (#510)
still it fell at close to free fall speed
#517. To: war (#516)
You're debunked. Go chase yourself back to LP...
9/11 debunked
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#518. To: war, litus, TwentyTwelve (#498)
2012 (whom you call Jonesie for some childish reason) has not lied. YOU on the other hand have been caught spewing lies and misrepresenting images of one building (WTC 5) on fire when the discussion was about a different building (WTC 7) trying to give the impression that it was WTC 7 engulfed in flames, where it was actually WTC 5. THEN you deny you did it, where I then traced your posts and gave concrete evidence that you DID do as I allege. You have tap danced all over this thread changing your story from one page to another. It's clear and evident that you contradict yourself and do not know what the hell you are talking about, yet you act condenscending to everyone here and resort to foul language and personal attacks when all else fails. YOU are the liar here war.
Do you know how many times Jonesie has been caught lying?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#519. To: war, litmus (#497)
Oooh, he said that the doctor slapped your mom when you were born. That's not an attack on your mother, that's a humorous jab at YOU you dumb shit. It's a joke that's older than you are.
I think that's what the doc may have done to war's mother after he was born....
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#520. To: war, mininggold. christine (#500)
Nobody here attacked your mother you bloviating fool. You're acting like a prima donna trying to gain undeserved sympathy for yourself.
My mom is not fair game and damn the consequences to me for defending that tenet...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#521. To: RickyJ (#510)
Of course it is. Add to the equation the fact that there was a significant loss of mass since much of it was being pulverized and dispersed into the air, along with the fact the pulverization process removed the kinetic energy available to actually break the undamaged floors, and the collapse itself becomes rather improbable in the first place, if not outright impossible.
On 9/11 there were "allegedly" over 100 of those collisions, still it fell at close to free fall speed. That of course is impossible.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#522. To: litus (#513)
To that I say: good job! That could very well explain war's tear jerking rendition of being offended due to a silly "doc slapped your mom when you were born" joke. And thanks for the compliment... :)
It's become obvious to me you hit a nerve FL when you posted the above, so war resorted to the typical .gov propagandist attempts to siderail and distract.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#523. To: litus, war, whore, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, christine, all (#509)
'Your mom' jokes are so popular because they don't discriminate between the person you're telling the joke to. They are not created to be racial or sexist jokes and because of this can be enjoyed by everyone and told to anyone. Some of my favorites are: Your mama's so ugly that when you were born they slapped her! Faux outrage is correct. Another common shill tactic. When caught in a semantic and logical bind divert the thread onto a more manageable tack. This is right out of: Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit. 17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.
get over yourself and your over the top faux "outrage" already.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#524. To: war, litus (#514)
You're like a little kid thinking if he hides under his covers, those bad
monsters in his closet will go away, then claiming he's a big brave dude
because he fought off those nasty monsters in his closet.
FL has been on bozo for weeks...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#525. To: Original_Intent (#523)
Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation Become incredulous and indignant. It's obviously a set of rules that war lives by...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#526. To: war (#507)
I could care less if your posting days goes back to the ark. I'm starting to think that some of the other posters are right. It's YOU who wants to be the Prima Donna, either by hook or by crook.
Save the lecture...my days on the internet go back to 1995 to MSN and the Discuss and Debate bulletin board. I have 0 problem with being attacked personally.
#527. To: FormerLurker (#522)
And thanks for the compliment... :) Yes, the acting was exceptional!. yw, FL.
That could very well explain war's tear jerking rendition of being offended due to a silly "doc slapped your mom when you were born" joke.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#528. To: mininggold (#526)
lolol!!
I could care less if your posting days goes back to the ark.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#529. To: Original_Intent, FormerLurker (#523)
2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit. These shills must have a little black book, ready with examples. You do notice he's used this one before....why, he even posted a link to his ready made, pat answer at LP!
This is right out of: Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#530. To: litus (#527)
A total overreaction to your remark. He's manufacturing what I call a hissy fit so he can Bozo you and save face at the same time.
Yes, the acting was exceptional!.
#531. To: mininggold (#530)
Ridiculous and transparent.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#532. To: litus (#527)
war is certainly good at being a drama queen.
Yes, the acting was exceptional!.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#533. To: FormerLurker (#532) (Edited)
If that wasn't clear before, it most certainly is now!
war is certainly good at being a drama queen.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#534. To: mininggold, litus, Original_Intent (#530)
After wading through your Nerd Clache this is the crux of the biscuit. THIS crap is the deflection; you Moonies are wasting bandwidth discussing your lack of honor. I do not attack people's families. Period.
A total overreaction to your remark.
#535. To: mininggold (#530)
I would have done so by now...
fit so he can Bozo you
#536. To: Critter (#517)
Does that somehow make time run differently?
9/11 debunked
#537. To: mininggold, litus, Original_Intent (#531)
Remarklable that all of a sudden the topic is my sense of honor and not the video that debunks your near "free fall speed" nonsense...
#538. To: war (#516)
This doesn't debunk anything. The 9/11 commission report and the nist report give varying times for the collapses, all of which are too quick to have been a pancake collapse. If it fell in 20 seconds as your video claims, that would be 11 seconds faster than freefall. So 90 floors provided 11 seconds of resistance to the collapse? 11 / 90 = .12 .12 seconds of resistance per floor? You're ok with this? Like I said, go chase yourself back to LP, shill.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#539. To: Critter (#538)
What % of WTC was air? That asked you said: If it fell in 20 seconds as your video claims, that would be 11 seconds faster than freefall. Do you know/understand the exponential factor of gravity? Do you also realize that WTC did not fall to ground but piled up on itself to almost 14 floors? Your "story" is bullshit. It doesn't stand up to minimal scrutiny and it changes at every twist, e.g. It fell at near free fall speed!!!! So what if it fell at more than double free fall speed...!!! That all said...the video makes no claims...it simply DOCUMENTS the collapse time...why is it that none of you Moonbats have done that? Because if you did then you'd have to cue the toilet flush...
#540. To: war (#539)
yeah? and you're an ugly bag of what % water? are you a blob pooled to the ground or can you stand erect, puff out you chest, and hurl derision and bull- shittery? read the link and get back with rebuttal (something pertinent to the thread, but lacking the drama you crave, so maybe you won't touch it): As Documentation of Thermitic Materials in the WTC Twin Towers Grows, Official Story Backers Ignore, Deny, Evade, and Dissemble The NIST investigation, having posted its Final Report with its absurd Building 7 joint-breaking-thermal-expansion theory in late 2008 and FAQ by Christmas, closed its doors before the independent researchers published their findings of active aluminothermic materials in WTC dust in a mainstream scientific journal; but not before they publicized findings of aluminothermic residues in the same dust samples; and not before they extracted from NIST a series of public statements, in press conferences and in written responses to requests for correction (RFCs), about the conduct of their inquiry into the cause of the skyscrapers' total destruction. As a result, NIST spokespersons are on the record saying they did not test for pyrotechnics, and offering rationales for failing to perform such tests. Those rationale -- or rationalizations -- summarized toward the end of this essay, include the assertion that testing for pyrotechnics "would not necessarily have been conclusive". That is partially true: failing to find pyrotechnic residues wouldn't rule out demolition, since demolition might have been implemented using an untraceable fuel such as hydrogen gas. But finding abundant and distributed pyrotechnic explosive residues would conclusively favor demolition - - particularly given the persuasive deductive arguments showing that the features of the buildings' destruction are incompatable with a purely gravity- driven collapse. The following timeline is narrowly focused on the emergence of public evidence indicating the use of aluminothermic pyrotechnics, ranging from incendiaries to high-explosives, in the destruction of the Twin Towers and Building 7, and on the way official bodies -- particular NIST -- treated that evidence.
What % of WTC was air?
Wake Up and Smell the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives
#541. To: postpunk (#540)
It's an issue created out of thin air...the thermite Moonbat crowd once used MIST's analysis of the dust to "prove" thermite ignoring that the matter used for thermite is common in building materials...
#542. To: postpunk (#540)
And, regardless, the Moonbats use thermite for screeching on about free fall or near free fall [pick a plan] when, in fact, they did not fall at anything resembling free fall or near free fall...once that is debunked, thermite becomes moot...
#543. To: postpunk (#540)
Thermite is not an explosive...it's a cutter...thus thermite is ofen referred to as a "cutter charge"
Wake Up and Smell the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives
#544. To: war (#541)
what? you're claiming thermite is a building material?
#545. To: war (#542)
irrelevant and logically quite fucked
#546. To: war (#543)
ah good; you've read the title. try following each word after another until you reach the end. be sure to have handy reference item to unpuzzle tricky words, and don't fail to click interior links for full comprehension.
#547. To: postpunk (#545)
Nope...misrepresenting the actual fall time is crucial to the thermite blathering...
irrelevant and logically quite fucked
#548. To: war (#547)
Misrepresenting the actual altitude of Flight 77 was crucial so .gov could claim that it hit poles that were in reality over 300 feet below the plane.
misrepresenting the actual fall time is crucial
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#549. To: postpunk (#544)
PLease...I know that you're grossly underinformed but don't ***think*** for one minute that includes me... Jones tries to claim that his "independent" analysis of WTC dust found traces of "thermite" when, in fact, it's simply the chemicals that can be used in thermite. His analysis does not differ from NIST's...
what? you're claiming thermite is a building material?
#550. To: litus (#548)
Feel free to explain the plane parts at the Pentagon...
Misrepresenting the actual altitude of Flight 77 was crucial so .gov could claim that it hit poles that were in reality over 300 feet below the plane.
#551. To: war (#550)
Feel free to explain how a plane could take out poles that were 300 feet below it. Feel free to explain how a plane, which appeared to be what was seen on the video, rolls across the grass to the Pentagon, but there's no marks or damage from said plane on the grass.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#552. To: war (#547)
what's crucial to you is plain to one sufficiently cynical, but irrelevant associations are still that--irrelevant associations betraying an agenda
#553. To: war (#549)
bunkum--again, derision and bull-shittery does not rebuttal make
#554. To: war (#550) (Edited)
http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/pentalawn.html
Do you think just any lawn would hold up like this after a plane crashed on it?
This is how ordinary lawns look after commercial airliners crashed on them...
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#555. To: war (#550) (Edited)
Purdue University's simulation of a Boeing 757 crashing into the Pentagon
Where's the damage to the roof????? to the grass??????
"The plane clipped light poles on nearby Route 27 and a backup generator at the Pentagon, bouncing off the ground before plowing into the building at a 45-degree angle." -USNews (12/10/01)
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#556. To: war (#549)
looky here! war's itty bitty bricks for building skyscrapers!
#557. To: war (#539)
Show me a 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors. If you can't do that, go screw.
Do you also realize that WTC did not fall to ground but piled up on itself to almost 14 floors?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#558. To: war (#557)
Show me a 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors. Do you also realize that WTC did not fall to ground but piled up on itself to almost 14 floors?
#559. To: TwentyTwelve, war (#558)
Show me a 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors. Do you also realize that WTC did not fall to ground but piled up on itself to almost 14 floors?
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#560. To: war, postpunk, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, litus, Rotara, christine, Wudidiz, all (#543)
Thermite is not an explosive...it's a cutter...thus thermite is ofen referred to as a "cutter charge" As usual your comment is intentionally misleading. Standard thermite or thermate is not an explosive however nano-themite is both a cutter and an explosive. As well there is nothing that says that thermite cannot be used in combination with explosives e.g., themite to cut through structural supports and explosives to initiate the collapse. Does it give you a thrill to try to confuse people smarter than you?
Wake Up and Smell the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#561. To: war (#549)
Wrong again, Charlie. First of all, it's not Jones' analysis. Secondly, these materials are bonded together in a sophisticated manner. Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe pp.7-31 (25) Authors: Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen doi: 10.2174/1874412500902010007 Abstract We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic. Keywords: JScanning electron microscopy, X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy, Differential scanning calorimetry, DSC analysis, World Trade Center, WTC dust, 9/11, Iron-rich microspheres, Thermite, Super-thermite, Energetic nanocomposites, Nano-thermite Affiliation: Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, DK- 2100, Denmark. http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/co...001/7TOCPJ.SGM ____________________________________________________________________ Message from Dr. Steven E. Jones http://visibility911.com/blog/?cat=48 Formally published in a peer-reviewed Chemical Physics journal, today: “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe” by Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley and Bradley R. Larsen The paper ends with this sentence: “Based on these observations, we conclude that the red layer of the red/gray chips we have discovered in the WTC dust is active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material.”
Jones tries to claim that his "independent" analysis of WTC dust found traces of "thermite" when, in fact, it's simply the chemicals that can be used in thermite. His analysis does not differ from NIST's...
Join 2x4 Tuesdays & protect your RKBA.
www.righttokeepandbeararms.com
#562. To: litus (#555)
The grass is easy it is the Amazing Penta-Lawn 2000. Impervious to aircraft engines, debris, and fire damage or your money back.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#563. To: randge (#561)
This is what you posted: “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe” by Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley and Bradley R. Larsen Tell me I am wrong again, please. Secondly. the dust in Jones' analysis was collected from where? Thirdly, a dust composition analysis done by NIST revealed what?
First of all, it's not Jones' analysis.
#564. To: war (#563)
Hey asshole, show me the 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#565. To: Critter (#564)
Hey Dickweed...first show me where I said that the floors were pancaked... Thanks///
Hey asshole, show me the 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors.
#566. To: Original_Intent (#560)
Where have you seen me try to confuse people smarter than me? Your nano thermite explosive would require how many pounds of materials and what would the steel look like thereafter?
Does it give you a thrill to try to confuse people smarter than you?
#567. To: war (#566)
That's what a good investigation would uncover. Why are you so afraid? You'd better check your own building as it might be getting it's own preparation for demolition as you post, since we keep getting these gov. warnings.
Your nano thermite explosive would require how many pounds of materials and what would the steel look like thereafter?
#568. To: war (#566)
Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
Your nano thermite explosive would require how many pounds of materials and what would the steel look like thereafter?
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#569. To: Original_Intent (#568)
Especially after they pooh pooh suggestions for further investigation.
14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
#570. To: Critter (#564)
Come on you do know that those pancakes were pulverized to dust evidently by their own weight and rate of fall./s Three totally under engineered buildings approved by the NY Building dept on the brink of collapse and no one in New York even seems to care. How many others are out there New Yorkers or do you still not care? Thank god New York is not in an active earthquake zone.
show me the 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors.
#571. To: mininggold (#570)
Here are a couple of good links to a timeline with excellent links, references and such.
www.historycommons.org/ti...line&printerfriendly=true
Mark
If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
#572. To: mininggold, Original_Intent (#569)
Especially after they pooh pooh suggestions for further investigation. bump!
14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#573. To: Original_Intent, James Deffenbach (#562)
lolol!! Magickal Grass!!!
The grass is easy it is the Amazing Penta-Lawn 2000. Impervious to aircraft engines, debris, and fire damage or your money back.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#574. To: Critter (#564)
bump
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#575. To: war (#565)
OK, I don't feel like finding exactly where you stated that the collapse was more consistent with the pancake method, but anyway.... show me a 14 story high pile of debris in the footprint, asshole.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#576. To: litus (#551)
The exhaust from the Magickal Jet Fuel™ blew them down. That and someone hollering shazam at 'em. Gomer Pyle is a suspect.
Feel free to explain how a plane could take out poles that were 300 feet below it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#577. To: Original_Intent (#560)
If it does he probably doesn't get too much satisfaction even out of a visit to nut houses.
Does it give you a thrill to try to confuse people smarter than you?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#578. To: litus (#555)
I posted some of those "Penta-Lawn" pictures on another board and BeAChooser just about lost what little mind he had left.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#579. To: war (#558) (Edited)
Show me a 14 floor high pile of pancaked floors. Do you also realize that WTC did not fall to ground but piled up on itself to almost 14 floors?
#580. To: war (#138)
Goddammit was that another question? What did you think that 100odd floors of sheetrock and concrete falling down would look like?
#581. To: TwentyTwelve (#580)
LOL!!!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#582. To: James Deffenbach (#578)
forums.randi.org/showthre...9094&highlight=beacho oser He is still plugging away.
I posted some of those "Penta-Lawn" pictures on another board and BeAChooser just about lost what little mind he had left.
Mark
If America is destroyed, it may be by Americans who salute the flag, sing the national anthem, march in patriotic parades, cheer Fourth of July speakers - normally good Americans who fail to comprehend what is required to keep our country strong and free - Americans who have been lulled into a false security (April 1968).---Ezra Taft Benson, US Secretary of Agriculture 1953-1961 under Eisenhower
#583. To: formerlurker, honway, skydrifter, twentytwelve, critter (#479)
I also want to thank you folks for all the dedicated research and detailed information you provided on all these various 9/11/01 issues, particularly at LP, years ago. This obviously involved countless hours of your time. Studying and discerning all of this was a very important & meaningful task during a formative juncture., so thanks. you are true patriots. Keep up the good work, it is not in vain.
Glory to God in the highest, and Peace to His people on Earth.
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
#584. To: Kamala (#582)
He is still plugging away. First BAC post(s) I have seen in a long time. But there seemed to be something wrong with him. None of them were the length of a novel or even a novella. He is slipping.
forums.randi.org/showthre...9094&highlight=beacho oser
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#585. To: James Deffenbach (#576)
lol!! Not Gomer!!! : )
The exhaust from the Magickal Jet Fuel™ blew them down. That and someone hollering shazam at 'em. Gomer Pyle is a suspect.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#586. To: Artisan (#583)
Thank you for saying this.
I also want to thank you folks for all the dedicated research and detailed information you provided on all these various 9/11/01 issues, particularly at LP, years ago. This obviously involved countless hours of your time. Studying and discerning all of this was a very important & meaningful task during a formative juncture., so thanks. you are true patriots. Keep up the good work, it is not in vain.
#587. To: James Deffenbach (#578)
Now that would have been great entertainment!
I posted some of those "Penta-Lawn" pictures on another board and BeAChooser just about lost what little mind he had left.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#588. To: Original_Intent (#560)
Standard thermite or thermate is not an explosive however nano-themite is both a cutter and an explosive. As well there is nothing that says that thermite cannot be used in combination with explosives e.g., themite to cut through structural supports and explosives to initiate the collapse. Thanks for pointing this out, OI.
As usual your comment is intentionally misleading.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#589. To: mininggold (#567)
Someone -= Jones - has already answered that question and he ended up with egg on his face and it's why this "analysis" is absurd. It's also why he knows it is.
That's what a good investigation would uncover.
#590. To: litus (#585)
Yeah, I know. Most people think of Gomer as a simple-minded, lowly private taking orders and guff from his sergeant. What they don't realize is that Gomer is a highly trained operative who knows magic words and incantations which are sometimes needed to go along with the government's other schemes. It was thought by most operatives that the Magickal Jet Fuel™ PLUS the people who were shaking the buildings at the bottom would be enough but Gomer thought that he should holler shazam at them just to make sure. Makes as much sense as the government's idiotic conspiracy theory that some people tout, doesn't it?
Not Gomer!!! : )
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#591. To: litus (#587)
Oh, it was. I thought the old boy was going to have a stroke.
Now that would have been great entertainment!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#592. To: Artisan (#583)
Thank you for the kind words, and I also share your thoughts in terms of all of you that have taken the time to look up this information and post it so that people can become aware of the true nature of the events that changed our lives.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#593. To: James Deffenbach (#590)
Gomer is a highly trained operative who knows magic words and incantations which are sometimes needed to go along with the government's other schemes. It was thought by most operatives that the Magickal Jet Fuel™ PLUS the people who were shaking the buildings at the bottom would be enough but Gomer thought that he should holler shazam at them just to make sure. Makes as much sense as the government's idiotic conspiracy theory that some people tout, doesn't it?
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#594. To: James Deffenbach (#591)
Oh, it was. I thought the old boy was going to have a stroke. And you, as well, just laughing! : )
Now that would have been great entertainment!
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#595. To: Critter (#575)
#596. To: war (#595)
That's not a 14 floor high pile of debris. Try again.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#597. To: Critter (#575)
#598. To: Critter (#596)
PROVE it...
That's not a 14 floor high pile of debris. Try again.
#599. To: war (#598)
PROVE it... .gov was supposed to. Unfortunately, they hurried away all the "evidence."
That's not a 14 floor high pile of debris. Try again.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#600. To: war (#595)
This one, taken on 9/11, shows a debris pile less that 2 stories above ground level. Care to explain that one, Einstein?
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#601. To: Critter (#596)
You folks are quite long on this and that but quite short on anything even remotely supporting this and that. The fact is. you're of the belief that the WTC collapsed flat into the earth and you look dumb when it ios revelaed that they, in fact, did not. You're also of the dumber belief that they fell at near free fall speed without providing squatina evidence that they did. That video I posted slays that myth and thus the controlled demolition myth. Couple those to the amount of thermite that would have been necessary and then any remainder thereof among the of tons dust generated and you look even dumberer. The fact is not one of you Moonbats have provided even the teeniest tiniest nit of evidence to make you case not worth a yawn. Quick...hide behind your house of cards and tell me I'm a government shill while, of course, not daring try to answer any of the same basic questions that I have raised about your Moonbat Theories from post #1. Thanks!!!
#602. To: Critter (#600)
It's a small snick of a muti acre site the time of which is not provided...
#603. To: war (#597)
Thanks for proving yourself wrong. Not only is that debris not 14 stories, it is less than 2 stories.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#604. To: Critter (#603)
Your seeing eye dog needs glasses...
it is less than 2 stories.
#605. To: war (#604) (Edited)
Your seeing eye dog needs glasses... I'll let your image and comments speak for themselves to anyone reading this BS.
it is less than 2 stories.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#606. To: litus (#594)
Yeah, I got a pretty good laugh out of the old boy a time or two.
And you, as well, just laughing! : )
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#607. To: Critter (#605)
Look at the building to its left that it's piled over McGruff...
#608. To: war (#607)
You're a twisted little twit of a shill, aintcha? Debris lying on other buildings doesn't count. Where is the stack of debris 14 stories high dipshit? How does it feel to be paid to act like a dumbass? Does one aspire to that position? Or get blackmailed into it? I can't conceive of the level of stupidity, or evil it takes to do what you do.
Look at the building to its left that it's piled over McGruff...
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#609. To: Critter, War (#608)
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#610. To: James Deffenbach (#606)
That's about all you can do with these shills!!
Yeah, I got a pretty good laugh out of the old boy a time or two.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#611. To: All (#610)
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#612. To: litus (#610)
Yep. Way I figure it, if you can get a laugh out of their foolishness once in a while you are ahead.
That's about all you can do with these shills!!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#613. To: James Deffenbach (#612)
I just treated myself to a if you can get a laugh out of their foolishness once in a while you are ahead.
laugh stack. : )
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#614. To: Critter (#608)
You know he might have to give away the secrets of his trade (such as it is) to answer those questions, don't you?
How does it feel to be paid to act like a dumbass? Does one aspire to that position? Or get blackmailed into it? I can't conceive of the level of stupidity, or evil it takes to do what you do.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#615. To: litus (#613)
Good on ya, as they say in England.
I just treated myself to a
laugh stack. : )
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#616. To: James Deffenbach (#615)
: )
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#617. To: Critter (#608)
Now have your dog look back to the right and you can see that the pile of debris is higher than that building and, in fact, has spilld over onto it. You don;t tread water very well... PS: Thermite doesn't cut, it melts and the buildings did not fall at anything near free fall speed...
Debris lying on other buildings doesn't count.
#618. To: war (#617)
You're not even a very good shill. WTF? That's the best you can do is have my dog look at another pile on top of another building?
Now have your dog look back to the right and you can see that the pile of debris is higher than that building and, in fact, has spilld over onto it.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#619. To: war (#617)
#620. To: Critter (#618)
The dog has mnore sense than you do. Meabwhile...thermite STILL does not make clean cuts and the towers did not fall at anything near free fall speed...
That's the best you can do is have my dog look at another pile on top of another building?
#621. To: abraxas (#619)
Did you believe that you were giving new information?
#622. To: war (#617)
Considering how long it could have taken them to fall in a pancake collapse it was very fast indeed. Neither WTC 1 or 2 fell at near free fall speed in a vacuum. Then again, nothing does unless it is in a vacuum. However air resistance would not have slowed the fall of the buildings down any noticeable amount over such a short distance for such massive buildings. But collisions on each floor, which had to occur if you believe the government's story, would have slowed it down a very noticeable amount. But WTC7 did collapse at near free fall speed and no plane even hit it. Don't tell me it felt lonely, that is not why it collapsed. Also don't tell me news reporters are psychic and that's why they reported it fell a good 20 minutes before it did. Anyone that can't see WTC7 was a controlled demolition is either blind or dumb. Why bring a perfectly good building down on purpose? Destroy evidence? Yep, that's why it had to come down.
and the buildings did not fall at anything near free fall speed...
God is always good!
#623. To: war (#617)
Repeating the same lie over and over doesn't make it true war. They DID fall close to free fall speed and EVERYONE seems to know it except for you.
the buildings did not fall at anything near free fall speed...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#624. To: war (#621)
Let's just say that I put more weight on what the chemist has to say than your opinions on the matter. Note that his investigation began when he witnessed the 47 story building collapse seven hours later with no airplane impact and it did so in 6.5 seconds. There really is not valid explanation as to the collapse of building seven, no matter how you spin it. If the explanation given for seven is false, then the explanations regarding the twin towers deserve more scrutiny as well.
#625. To: RickyJ (#622)
Too bad for you that they DID NOT Fall in a pancake. May I have the number of times that you will need to be again corrected on this in the future? Thanks...
Considering how long it could have taken them to fall in a pancake collapse it was very fast indeed.
#626. To: abraxas (#624)
Let's just say that I put more weight on the opinion of the overwhelming majority of industry professionals than I do the occasional Moonbat.
Let's just say that I put more weight on what the chemist has to say than your opinions on the matter.
#627. To: abraxas (#624)
He doesn't count very well...even Steven Jones says it took 13...
Note that his investigation began when he witnessed the 47 story building collapse seven hours later with no airplane impact and it did so in 6.5 seconds.
#628. To: RickyJ (#622)
Collisions on each floor were going to happen no matter how it was brought down...
But collisions on each floor, which had to occur if you believe the government's story, would have slowed it down a very noticeable amount.
#629. To: war (#626)
A majority of people are comfortable with the idea that other parties besides 19 Arabs had a hand in 9/11. The only ones defending the Official Fairy Tale are you gov/media fluffers. You guys are the moonbats, not the people that question the OFT.
#630. To: bluegrass (#629)
Riiight...and the Flat Earthers? TRUE patriots...
#631. To: war (#630)
I suggest you just hang it up and begin a new career defending the Warren Commission.
#632. To: bluegrass (#631)
Post hoc ergo propter hoc...
#633. To: war (#632)
Your logic sucks. Are you implying that the Feds never lie?
#634. To: war, abraxas (#627)
You retard, the 110 story towers fell in 13 seconds or less, and I'm pretty sure that's what Jones meant when he used that figure.
He doesn't count very well...even Steven Jones says it took 13...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#635. To: war, abraxas (#626)
Now you're sounding like BAC. What industry are you talking about, the news industry? Certainly not the professional aviation industry, and certainly not the majority of physicists, chemists, and engineers in various disciplines such as civil and materials engineering.
Let's just say that I put more weight on the opinion of the overwhelming majority of industry professionals
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#636. To: war, RickyJ (#625)
Oh so now you're changing the official story? Ok war, did they fall down because of the wind as you tried to say earlier on, or were they brought down with explosives?
Too bad for you that they DID NOT Fall in a pancake.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#637. To: abraxas (#624)
Don't expect to get anywhere using simple logic with war. He'll refuse to accept and/or admit to the most basic fundamental facts.
If the explanation given for seven is false, then the explanations regarding the twin towers deserve more scrutiny as well.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#638. To: war (#620)
combobulate yourself, fella'! Answers to Frequently Asked Questions (August 30, 2006) 6. How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—speeds that approximate that of a ball dropped from similar height in a vacuum (with no air resistance)? NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A). As documented in Section 6.14.4 of NIST NCSTAR 1, these collapse times show that: “… the structure below the level of collapse initiation offered minimal resistance to the falling building mass at and above the impact zone. The potential energy released by the downward movement of the large building mass far exceeded the capacity of the intact structure below to absorb that energy through energy of deformation. Since the stories below the level of collapse initiation provided little resistance to the tremendous energy released by the falling building mass, the building section above came down essentially in free fall, as seen in videos. As the stories below sequentially failed, the falling mass increased, further increasing the demand on the floors below, which were unable to arrest the moving mass.” dude, there was wicked mucho smashing of stuff, not the fuck-all suggested by the collapses' increasing swiftness (unless maybe it could have been...DEMOLITION!!!).
#543. To: postpunk (#540)
Wake Up and Smell the Aluminothermic Nanocomposite Explosives
Thermite is not an explosive...it's a cutter...thus thermite is ofen referred to as a "cutter charge"
...
Meabwhile...thermite STILL does not make clean cuts and the towers did not fall at anything near free fall speed...
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
what's important to understand is that a collapse occurring at free fall means that all potential energy is converted to kinetic energy with zero PE available for smashing. a collapse approaching free fall has PE less KE available for smashing (energy available for smashing remains arbitrarily near zero).
#639. To: FormerLurker, war (#636)
He doesn't even know what it is he is trying to defend. Yet he defends it! That's really crazy!
God is always good!
#640. To: postpunk, war (#638)
When you look at the debris pile at the bottom of this huge mas driving down through the 110 story buildings, you have to ask, what happened to the mass? There is no mass.
dude, there was wicked mucho smashing of stuff,
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#641. To: FormerLurker, War, Whore, abraxas, postpunk, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, Litus, christine, all (#635)
Now you're sounding like BAC. What industry are you talking about, the news industry? Certainly not the professional aviation industry, and certainly not the majority of physicists, chemists, and engineers in various disciplines such as civil and materials engineering. I just love that "overwhelming majority of industry professionals". One of those great generalities the shills love which when pressed always boils down to the same short list: Dr. Thomas Eagar from MIT who was the authority for the Nova whitewash - whose theory has been totally discredited. Pop Mechanics and their Strawman Whitewash which used misrepresented photos of WTC 6 and misrepresented them as WTC 7. Edited by that great engineering jeenyus of the HEARST Publishing Company, the former editor of "Entertainment Weekly", and Michael Jerkoff's cousin as the purported author. A variety of government employees controlled by the people who engineered the 911 PsyOP. And that's about it. A few other faces and names here and there - generally with government connections such as Controlled Demolition Inc.. And the vast army of "experts" keeps dwindling and being discredited. What's a poor hard working shill to do other than fall back on non-specific generalities such as "overwhelming majority"?
Let's just say that I put more weight on the opinion of the overwhelming majority of industry professionals
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#642. To: war, bluegrass, all (#632)
Sic transit gloria mundi ...
Post hoc ergo propter hoc...
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#643. To: Original_Intent (#641)
Pop Mechanics and their Strawman Whitewash which used misrepresented photos of WTC 6 and misrepresented them as WTC 7. Edited by that great engineering jeenyus of the HEARST Publishing Company, the former editor of "Entertainment Weekly", and Michael Jerkoff's cousin as the purported author. A variety of government employees controlled by the people who engineered the 911 PsyOP. And that's about it. A few other faces and names here and there - generally with government connections such as Controlled Demolition Inc.. And the vast army of "experts" keeps dwindling and being discredited. Worth repeating!
Dr. Thomas Eagar from MIT who was the authority for the Nova whitewash - whose theory has been totally discredited.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#644. To: FormerLurker (#635)
Yea...those...and until you buck uup some numbers, sport, you're once again spouting bullshit. These groups participated in analyzing the collapse...buck up sime numbers Moonie that the majority of their members dissented from the findings: The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) Coalition that comprised a Building Performance Assessment Team (BPAT). The ASCE Coalition Team included professional members of the Society of Fire Protection Engineers (SFPE), the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), the American Institute of Steel Construction (AISC), and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY). What did the colleagues of one of your Head Moonbats, Steven Jones, do when they heard the nonsense that he was spiouting? In fact, I challenge you now to buckk up the name of ONE organziation of architects, engineers, fire professionals etc etc etc who as a group have taken issue with NIST.
Certainly not the professional aviation industry, and certainly not the majority of physicists, chemists, and engineers in various disciplines such as civil and materials engineering.
#645. To: Original_Intent (#642)
Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum
Sic transit gloria mundi
#646. To: war, FormerLurker (#644)
I would say these folks have: http://www.ae911truth.org/ Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!
In fact, I challenge you now to buckk up the name of ONE organziation of architects, engineers, fire professionals etc etc etc who as a group have taken issue with NIST.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#647. To: postpunk (#638)
Quite simply...they didn't... Do you folks ***think*** if you keep repeating nonsense like Free Fall, near free fall, jet fuel, pancake, etc etc etc you're going to make them all come true?
How could the WTC towers collapse in only 11 seconds (WTC 1) and 9 seconds (WTC 2)—
#648. To: litus (#646)
They are a peer recognized group?
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth!
#649. To: war (#647)
did you miss the clickable link and the quote's context that that was NIST affirming collapse durations? slow down and stop tripping over yourself
#650. To: war (#648)
Your original question:I challenge you now to buckk up the name of ONE organziation of architects, engineers, fire professionals etc etc etc who as a group have taken issue with NIST. Unsatisfied with the answer, now you demand more:They are a peer recognized group? , such as their credentials, I suppose? You asked, it was answered. Moving the target doesn't make you look less like a shill. Demanding more than what you originally asked is yet another transparent attempt to ridicule those who don't worship at the alter of .gov.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#651. To: war (#644) (Edited)
Here you go fool, here's over 660+ engineers and architects... Engineers and Architects question the 9/l1 Commission Report Note: I recommend using Firefox with the above link, as IE appears to hang when trying to open the page.
Yea...those...and until you buck uup some numbers, sport, you're once again spouting bullshit.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#652. To: FormerLurker, Litus, war (#651)
Note: I recommend using Firefox with the above link, as IE appears to hang when trying to open the page. 170+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials 660+ Engineers and Architects 180+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals 370+ Professors Question 9/11 230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members 200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals
Engineers and Architects question the 9/l1 Commission Report
#653. To: TwentyTwelve, FormerLurker, war (#652)
660+ Engineers and Architects 180+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals =1,010 + "professional" individuals who question the 9/11 .gov fairy tale. This is on top of the hundreds of thousands of other individuals worldwide who have used their common sense after reading testimonies, the fairy tale, hearing live audio tape of the firefighters, and watching with their own eyes what appears to be explosions and other oddities which do not comport with the fairytale version.
170+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#654. To: war (#626)
Funny, I haven't heard any voice in the wilderness of "overwhelming majority" respond to the nano thermite findings. Not one. Please link and source the "opnionion of the overwhelming majority of industry professionals" regarding this specific issues. I'll wait here with the crickets.
Let's just say that I put more weight on the opinion of the overwhelming majority of industry professionals than I do the occasional Moonbat.
#655. To: war (#627)
Er, that's the count on the TWIN TOWERS, not building seven which came down in 6.5 sceconds. Perhaps, an intentional misrepresentation of information on your part?
He doesn't count very well...even Steven Jones says it took 13...
#656. To: All (#654)
lol.........that's an opinion that makes your eyes water.
opnionion
#657. To: abraxas (#656)
hehehehe. you do have an edit button to fix your typos unless you'd rather leave 'em for a laugh. ;)
opnionion
#658. To: christine (#657)
I didn't know that. What a nice feature!! Hit me up side the head with a clue by four, Christine. You astound me with your thoughtfulness. I did write a note to self for future typos.......... Still, I'll let that typo roll like tears down my cheeks when I dice onions. : )
hehehehe. you do have an edit button to fix your typos unless you'd rather leave 'em for a laugh. ;)
#659. To: abraxas (#656)
LMAO! That is a classic!
lol.........that's an opinion that makes your eyes water.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#660. To: war (#620)
So you're now conceding that there is no 14 story pile of rubble?
Meabwhile...thermite STILL does not make clean cuts and the towers did not fall at anything near free fall speed...
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#661. To: Original_Intent, war (#642)
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
#662. To: Original_Intent, war (#633)
The question that war appears unable to answer honestly: Are you implying that the Feds never lie?
#663. To: bluegrass (#661) (Edited)
GO BACK TO MEXICO YOU WETBACK AND QUIT SPEAKING SPANI....ahhh errr...I mean quit speaking latin!!! lol The correct answer of course is NOBODY is watching them. The wolves are guarding the henhouse.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
#664. To: IndieTX (#663)
¿Dónde está la hierba?
#665. To: IndieTX (#663)
pasa me la sal por favor.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#666. To: abraxas, christine (#656)
lol.........that's an opinion that makes your eyes water. that's a keeper! lolol!
opnionion
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#667. To: litus, FormerLurker, TwentyTwelve, Wudidiz, Whore, war, all (#650)
Unsatisfied with the answer, now you demand more:They are a peer recognized group? , such as their credentials, I suppose? You asked, it was answered. Moving the target doesn't make you look less like a shill. Demanding more than what you originally asked is yet another transparent attempt to ridicule those who don't worship at the alter of .gov. Twenty Five Ways to Suppress The Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. 19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.
Your original question:I challenge you now to buckk up the name of ONE organziation of architects, engineers, fire professionals etc etc etc who as a group have taken issue with NIST.
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#668. To: war (#648)
Stay focused. Concentrate.
They are a peer recognized group?
#669. To: bluegrass (#661)
Bis interimitur qui suis armis perit...
#670. To: TwentyTwelve (#668)
Jonesie...either get some sort of floatation device or practice self-editing.
#671. To: Original_Intent (#667)
Let's cut to the chase, here Moonie...how many architects, engineers and the like are there? Now, how many are Moonbats like you? Got it?
#672. To: abraxas (#654)
The issue of controlled demolition has been out there since the Moon rose on 9/11/01. it's been greeted with the same resounding silence I've been referring to.
Funny, I haven't heard any voice in the wilderness of "overwhelming majority" respond to the nano thermite findings. Not one. Please link and source the "opnionion of the overwhelming majority of industry professionals" regarding this specific issues.
#673. To: abraxas, all (#656)
When you start attacking typos you have no argument.
#674. To: war, Original_Intent (#671)
Hey jackass, over 660 architects and engineers were pointed out to you in post 651. It's obvious that you ignore any and all facts and simply repeat the same retarded questions over and over and over....
Let's cut to the chase, here Moonie...how many architects, engineers and the like are there?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#675. To: war (#672)
Liar.
it's been greeted with the same resounding silence I've been referring to.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#676. To: Original_Intent (#667)
war is certainly fond of that particular tactic.
19. Ignore proof presented
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#677. To: war (#670)
Rule Number Five Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary attack the messenger ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as "kooks", "right-wing", "liberal", "left-wing", "terrorists", "conspiracy buffs", "radicals", "militia", "racists", "religious fanatics", "sexual deviates", and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.
Jonesie...either get some sort of floatation device or practice self-editing.
#678. To: war, all (#673)
hehehe......attacking who? I was joking about my own typo. I've noted that when you use diversion ad nauseum, you have no argument.
When you start attacking typos you have no argument.
#679. To: war (#669)
Me transmitte sursum, Caledoni!
#680. To: war (#672)
it's been greeted with the same resounding silence I've been referring to. You stupid a-hole. The FACT, yes FACT moron, that the WTC towers were brought down with controlled demolitions has been proven. You are an idiot to keep trying to shill for the government, you loser.
The issue of controlled demolition has been out there since the Moon rose on 9/11/01.
God is always good!
#681. To: Original_Intent (#667)
You've got him/them down to a "t". : )
9. Play Dumb. 19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#682. To: FormerLurker (#676) (Edited)
war is certainly fond of that particular tactic. It is one of the standard shill maneuvers - he cannot at any admit the validity of any criticism or fault in the Official Cover Up Fairy Tale. So, when you are dealing with a genuine paid disinformation shill that is one of their biggest giveaways and signatures. No matter how preposterous, nor how many times disproven, no element of the current Official Lyin' can be admitted to be wrong. Of course as soon as the Official Lyin changes the shill's position changes and they will never, ala 1984, ever admit it was any different. 19. Ignore proof presented
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#683. To: war (#620)
So you admit it eh? That there is no 14 story pile of debris anywhere to be found? Come on dude. Own up!
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#684. To: FormerLurker (#674)
I think they give them a list of responses they can use and statements they can make. And, no matter how retarded the responses are they will keep saying just what they are told.
It's obvious that you ignore any and all facts and simply repeat the same retarded questions over and over and over....
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#685. To: Critter (#683)
The photos speak for themselves no matter how blind you choose to be.
That there is no 14 story pile of debris anywhere to be found?
#686. To: James Deffenbach (#684)
No you don't...
I think
#687. To: RickyJ (#680)
Now tap your heels togther three times and repeat... The FACT, yes FACT moron, that the WTC towers were brought down with controlled demolitions has been proven.
>
#688. To: war (#687)
It's a fact. You live in fantasy land. A Jew sponsored fantasy land. All fantasies end. The one the Jews created will too.
God is always good!
#689. To: RickyJ (#688)
Chuckles...
A Jew sponsored fantasy land.
#690. To: Artisan (#583)
Thanks for including me in that distinguished list.
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