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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe
Source: whatreallyhappened.com
URL Source: http://whatreallyhappened.com/conte ... world-trade-center-catastrophe
Published: Apr 5, 2009
Author: whatreallyhappened.com
Post Date: 2009-04-05 01:25:36 by TwentyTwelve
Keywords: 9/11, 911, Thermite, WTC Collapses
Views: 11586
Comments: 690

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic.

Webmaster's Commentary:

Folks, this is a major story and will be totally ignored by ABCNNBBCBS.

This is a peer-reviewed report in a science journal which confirms the presence of a manufactured material consisting of tiny flakes of aluminum metal coated with iron oxide discovered at four different locations in the wreckage of the World Trade Center.

Aluminum and iron oxide, mixed equally by weight, is the classic recipe for thermite. This material is very fine, increasing its burn speed, and apparently has some additional components (besides the very fine granular size) which lower the ignition temperature.

This report directly contradicts the official government claim that there was no trace of internal explosives in the ruins of the World Trade Center.

See Thermite and the WTC Collapses

Posted on Apr 04, 2009 at 07:49

Tags: * 911

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#22. To: war (#19)

before you folks get it?

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bombs_inside_wtc.html

‘BOMBS INSIDE WTC’

FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH

rss202

By Victor Thorn

NEW YORK CITY, N.Y.—On the morning of Sept. 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. asserted, yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too,” said Isaac.

The ramifications of this statement are immense: One of New York’s own firefighters says publicly that 9-11 couldn’t have been the work of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated and executed by elements within our own government.

He also added, after pointing to throngs of police officers standing around us, that, “We all have to be very careful about how we handle it.”

Isaac reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told this journalist during our protest at Ground Zero on Sept. 11, 2005—that emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the World Trade Center towers.

Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.

“It’s amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11. There is more information related to Isaac circulating in on-line and print reports, so here again we are hearing first-hand evidence from individuals who were on the scene, such as live witness William Rodriguez, saying that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the airliner’s impact or the resulting jet fuel fires, but instead by a deliberately executed controlled demolition.

Tragically, due to heavy-handed pressure from officials at the city, state and federal levels, we are still not hearing the entire story.

Researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also at the WTC “open grave site” on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2005, wrote the following on the on-line news web site APFN: “I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth. Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 9-11 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing. I had tears in my eyes.”

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:17:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: TwentyTwelve (#21)

Yea so? Neither of them were constructed as WTC was...y7ou may as well be showing me Santa's Workshop... BTW, this is at least the 5th time that has been pointed out to you.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:18:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: war (#19)

before you folks get it?

According to the Journal of Australian Fire Investigators, kerosene ignites at around 444°F. The temperature that the fire will eventually reach depends on both the combustion rate (based on O2) and the rate at which heat can be disbursed in the given scenario. Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived. Again, please contact professionals to verify this if you wish. In an oxygen deprived environment, higher temperatures cannot be reached. You can test this yourself by comparing a match in the open vs. a match in a bottle with a very small hole.

T.C. Forensic: Article 10 - PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORS
PHYSICAL CONSTANTS FOR INVESTIGATORS. by Tony Cafe. Reproduced from "Firepiont" magazine - Journal of Australian Fire Investigators. ...
www.tcforensic.com.au/docs/article10.html - 69k - Cached

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:18:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: TwentyTwelve (#22)

Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.

There's no gag order.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:19:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: war (#23)

BTW, this is at least the 5th time that has been pointed out to you.

9-11 Research: The Core Structures

structural cores of the World Trade Center Twin Towers,core columns.
911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html - 23k - Cached -

------------------------------------------------------------------

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

The Core Structures

The Structural System of the Twin Towers

Each tower was supported by a structural core extending from its bedrock foundation to its roof. The cores were rectangular pillars with numerous large columns and girders, measuring 87 feet by 133 feet. The core structures housed the elevators, stairs, and other services. The cores had their own flooring systems, which were structurally independent of the floor diaphragms that spanned the space between the cores and the perimeter walls. The core structures, like the perimeter wall structures, were 100 percent steel-framed.

Reports on the number of core columns vary from 44 to 47. The exact arrangement of the columns is not known due to the secrecy of detailed engineering drawings of the towers. It is clear from photographs, such as the one on the right, that the core columns were abundantly cross-braced.

Establishing the true nature of the core structures is of great importance given that the most widely read document on the World Trade Center attack -- the 9/11 Commission Report -- denies their very existence, claiming the towers' cores were "hollow steel shaft[s]:"

For the dimensions, see FEMA report, "World Trade Center Building Performance Study," undated. In addition, the outside of each tower was covered by a frame of 14-inch-wide steel columns; the centers of the steel columns were 40 inches apart. These exterior walls bore most of the weight of the building. The interior core of the buildings was a hollow steel shaft, in which elevators and stairwells were grouped. Ibid. For stairwells and elevators, see Port Authority response to Commission interrogatory, May 2004. 1

column base

The top illustration indicates what may have been typical dimensions and thickness of the smaller core columns, about half-way up the tower. The outermost rows of core columns were apparently considerably larger, measuring 54 inches wide. Columns

The core columns were steel box-columns that were continuous for their entire height, going from their bedrock anchors in the sub-basements to near the towers' tops, where they transitioned to H-beams. Apparently the box columns, more than 1000 feet long, were built as the towers rose by welding together sections several stories tall. The sections were fabricated by mills in Japan that were uniquely equipped to produce the large pieces. 2

Some of the core columns apparently had outside dimensions of 36 inches by 16 inches. Others had larger dimensions, measuring 52 inches by 22 inches. 3 The core columns were oriented so that their longer dimensions were perpendicular to the core structures' longer, 133-foot-wide sides. Construction photographs found at the Skyscraper Museum in New York City indicate that the outermost rows of core columns on the cores' longer sides were of the larger dimensions. Both the FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study and the NIST's Draft Report on the Twin Towers fail to disclose the dimensions of the core columns, and the NIST Report implies that only the four core columns on each core's corners had larger dimensions.

Like the perimeter columns -- and like steel columns in all tall buildings -- the thickness of the steel in the core columns tapered from bottom to top. Near the bottoms of the towers the steel was four inches thick, whereas near the tops it may have been as little as 1/4th inch thick. The top figure in the illustration to the right is a cross-section of one of the smaller core columns from about half-way up a tower, where the steel was about two inches thick. The bottom figure shows the base of one of the larger core columns, where the steel was five inches thick. The bases of the columns also had slabs of steel running through their centers, making them almost solid.

Column Arrangement

The exact arrangement of the columns and how they were cross-braced is not apparent from public documents such as FEMA's World Trade Center Building Performance Study. The arrangement of box columns depicted in Figure 2-10 of Chapter 2 (pictured to the right) seems plausible, even though it contradicts other illustrations in the report showing a more random arrangement. It depicts the top floors of a tower and does not indicate the widths of the columns on a typical floor.

Cross-Bracing

Construction photographs show that the core columns were connected to each other at each floor by large square girders and I-beams about two feet deep. The debris photograph below shows what appears to be one of the smaller core columns surrounded by perpendicular I-beams approximately three feet deep. In addition, the tops of core structures were further connected by the sloping beams of the hat truss structures.

This photograph from Ground Zero is apparently of one of the smaller core columns connected to a set of I-beams.

This image from the documentary Up From Zero shows the base of a core column, whose dimensions, minus the four flanges, are apparently 52 by 22 inches, with walls at least 5 inches thick.

References

1. 9-11 Commission Report; NOTES; Chapter 9 Heroism and Horror; Note 1, 9-11Commission.gov,

2. APPENDIX B: Structural Steel and Steel Connections, FEMA.gov, 2002

3. World's Tallest Towers Begin to Show Themselves on New York City Skyline, Engineering News Record, 1/1/1970

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:20:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: war (#19)

How many more pictures of flames shooting out of WTC must I post before you folks get it?

Do you know anything about how steel conducts heat?

At the moment of collapse, there were isolated pockets of fire, and any heat that had been applied to the steel during the hottest periods of fire would have already been wicked off into the tons of above the fire zones.

The steel was in the process of cooling when the collapse initiated.

A veteran battalion chief would have certainly been on the alert for danger signs and would have noted any extreme deformation, sagging of floors, or sounds that indicated that collapse was eminent, or even possible..


Beware!
This guy may be prowling 4um:

Morehead City Concerts Summer 2009

Critter  posted on  2009-04-05   13:21:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: war (#25)

There's no gag order.

Prove it.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:21:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TwentyTwelve (#24)

Again, any firefighter can explain from experience and training that the black, sooty smoke (like that found on 9/11 at the WTC towers) were O2 deprived

OUtright lie...any fireman will tell you that smoke is an indication of WHAT IS BURNING...ande it's fucking hilarious, given the GAPING holes in WTC to believe that anything was O2 deprived...

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:21:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: TwentyTwelve (#28)

FUck you...prove that there is...in fact. I;ve asked you to prove all of your nonsense. To date you've responded 0 times.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:22:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: war (#19)

before you folks get it?

911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/blueprints.html

Tower Blueprints - Surviving Evidence of the World Trade Center Attack

The blueprints to the Twin Towers and Building 7 remained off-limits to the public for more than five years after the attack, despite the fact that the buildings were built with public money and that the engineering drawings of public buildings are supposed to be public information. 1 Incredibly, the team of engineers from the ASCE that conducted the only investigation of the building "collapses" before Ground Zero had been cleaned up lacked access to the buildings' blueprints -- at least until they signed waivers that they would not use the evidence in a lawsuit against the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. 2

Whistleblower Releases Blueprints

In March of 2007, an extensive set of detailed architectural drawings of the World Trade Center became public through the actions of a whistleblower. The 261 drawings included detailed plans for the North Tower (WTC 1), the World Trade Center foundation and basement, and the TV mast atop the North Tower. The set of drawings does not include plans for the other six buildings in the World Trade Center complex. However, since the Twin Towers were of almost identical construction, it is safe to assume that the the structural details that the drawings shown for the North Tower are largely applicable to the South Tower.

The drawings contain a wealth of detail about the buildings, including the dimensions of structural members such as the core columns.

Most of the drawings can be viewed in this multiresolution browser. This 66th floor core plan included in the detailed architectural drawings shows that most of the core columns retained their full outside dimensions well above the midpoints of the Towers. Of the sixteen columns bounding the long faces of the core, thirteen have outside dimensions of approximately 54 by 22 inches in this 66th floor section. Official Reports Misrepresented the Towers' Construction Portion of photograph in the collection of the Skyscraper Museum

The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections.

Based on construction photographs exhibited in the Skyscraper Museum and illustrations from the Engineering News Record , 9-11 Research had established by mid-2005 that, low in the Towers, the sixteen core columns that bounded the long faces of the buildings' cores had dimensions of 54 by 22 inches. The detailed drawings show that these columns maintained these dimensions through about the 66th floor.

Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely.

So effective was FEMA at concealing the nature of the cores that the 9/11 Commission Report , citing the FEMA Report, denied the very existence of the core columns.

FEMA's Building Performance Study

Figure 2-2 of of FEMA's Building Performance Study, labeled "Representative structural framing plan, upper floors", is one of five illustrations in the report that depict core columns. Each of these illustrations depicts the core columns at their minimum dimensions, and none depict them at their typical dimensions.

In May of 2005, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) released its Building Performance Study, of which Chapter 2, "WTC 1 and WTC 2", was devoted to explaining the "collapse" of the Twin Towers. It advances the "truss theory" or "pancake theory", in which the supposed failure of floor-truss-to-column connections is the initiating event in a series of chain reactions ending in total collapse. Added commentary in our archived copy exposes many deceptive techniques employed in the article. 3

Key elements of FEMA's theory depend on misrepresentations of the Towers' construction made possible by their vague descriptions. For example, to explain other collapse of the core their Study states:

As the floors collapsed, this left tall freestanding portions of the exterior wall and possibly central core columns. As the unsupported height of these freestanding exterior wall elements increased, they buckled at the bolted column splice connections, and also collapsed.

Contrary to the FEMA's hedged assertion that the core columns were freestanding, construction photographs clearly show that large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.

FEMA's report seems crafted to hide the structural significance of the core columns, if not their very existence. Examples of features of the Report that minimize or conceal the core structures include:

Figure D-13 from FEMA's Study, bearing the caption "WTC 1 or WTC 2 core column (C-74)", is the only photograph in the Study that shows an identified core column

* The absence of any illustrations showing core columns of typical dimensions

* The repeated use of the term "service core" to describe the cores, and avoidance of terminology describing their structural role

* The use of illustrations that imply the cores didn't exist, such as Figure 2-20

* The only photograph of a core column in the Report (Figure D-13) being of an atypical column of very small dimensions

* The inclusion of only floor plans that show core columns of very small dimensions with no clarification that the core columns that ran most of the Towers' heights were of much larger dimensions

NIST's Final Report on the Twin Towers

In 2005 NIST published its 'Final Report of the National Construction Safety Team on the Collapses of the World Trade Center Towers' -- a 280-page report that was extremely vague in a number of respects, including any description of the structural systems of the Towers. It contains very little information about the core columns, the following being one of the only passages describing them:

Figure 3-3 From NIST's Final Report drastically misrepresents the dimensions of the core columns on the 78th through the 83rd floors. The 47 columns in this rectangular space were fabricated using primarily 36 ksi and 42 ksi steels and also decreased in size in the higher stories. The four massive corner columns bore nearly one-fifth of the total gravity load on the core columns.

The passage implies that only the corner columns were "massive" when, in fact, the sixteen columns on the long faces of the cores shared the same dimensions for most of each Tower's height.

Illustrations in the Report depict the core columns at the North and South Tower crash zones as being the same size, when in fact the core columns were much broader around the 80th floor than around the 95th. NIST's failure to highlight this difference is especially interesting in light of its estimates of core column damage in the Towers. Those esimates show 10 of the South Tower's core columns severed, compared to only 6 of the North Tower's. How could the South Tower's core have had more damage when its impact-level columns were twice as large as the North Tower's and it sustained only a glancing rather than a head-on impact? Was NIST struggling to explain how the South Tower succumbed to "global collapse" almost twice as quickly as the North Tower despite having much smaller fires?

World Trade Center Master Plan

This illustration from 'Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel' shows a structural system that matches the drawings in the MASTER PLAN. Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel

Prior to the release of the detailed architectural drawings, 9-11 Research published the MASTER PLAN, dated December 16, 1963. The MASTER PLAN does not show structural details such as column dimensions, and shows an arrangement of core columns that was later changed. The obsolete core column arrangement indicated in the MASTER PLAN has been reproduced in other publications such as the book 'Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel'. 4

References

1. WTC surveillance tapes feared missing, AP, 12/10/02 [cached]

2. WTC Probe Ills Bared, Daily News, 3/7/02 [cached]

3. WTC 1 and WTC 2, FEMA.gov,

4. Multi-Storey Buildings in Steel, Second Edition, 1978

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:23:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Critter (#27)

At the moment of collapse, there were isolated pockets of fire

You do need me to post the flames.

Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:23:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: war (#30)

FUck you...prove that there is...in fact. I;ve asked you to prove all of your nonsense. To date you've responded 0 times.

You know you can't prove it.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:23:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: war (#32)

Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.

The 1975 World Trade Center Fire

The February 13, 1975 North Tower Fire has been carefully hidden from you. Here are a few reports concerning it.

The 1975 World Trade Center Fire

This 110-story steel-framed office building suffered a fire on the 11th floor on February 13, 1975. The loss was estimated at over $2000000. ...
www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_1975_fire.html - 9k - Cached -

-----------------------------

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:24:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: TwentyTwelve (#31)

Contrary to the FEMA's hedged assertion that the core columns were freestanding, construction photographs clearly show that large horizontal beams cross-connected the core columns in a three-dimensional matrix of steel.

Those "cross beams" were actually the trusses.

Same old bullshit.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:25:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: war (#32)

Afuckingmazing how stupid you fucking people are.

The Firefighters' Tapes ...
www.prisonplanet.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_firefighterstape.html - 41k - Cached

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:25:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: TwentyTwelve (#34)

One floor...the 11th and there was no plane impact and explosiion and it diod not burn out of control...

Same bullshit.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:27:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: war (#35)

prisonplanet.com/articles...06/260906_b_Animation.htm

New WTC Animation: WTC Core

9/11 Blogger | September 26 2006

A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC. The building's backbone that NIST and FEMA ignored

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:27:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Know what a 10-45 code one is?

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:31:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)

A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC

Based upon what?

war  posted on  2009-04-05   13:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: war (#39)

Battalion Seven Chief: "Battalion Seven ... Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones."

Know what a 10-45 code one is?

F.D.N.Y. Radio Codes

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-05   13:34:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: TwentyTwelve (#41)

I know what it means, simp. I have FDNY as friends and relatives. It how I know that there is no gag order and it's how IN know that anyone using the bunker gear of their fallen comrades to make a buck is full of shit.

BTW, there is no such thing as "active thermite material" that can be found in residue. When thermite is "active" its burning.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   15:43:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: TwentyTwelve (#33)

You know you can't prove it.

I can prove it far more easily than you can. I've posted numerous interviews of firemen's accounts of the day and YOU YOURSELF have posted transcripts of FDNY exchanges form that day. If there's a gag order, shit for brains, why are these out there in the public domain?

There is also a documentary out there that was made AFTER 9/11 about FDNY and 9/11 in which NUMEROUS FDNY talk about their experiences.

So, yea, consider yourself weighed and measured as the stupid piece of cow chip that you are.

war  posted on  2009-04-05   15:46:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)

A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.

Based upon what?

war  posted on  2009-04-06   10:01:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: war (#43) (Edited)

Why does it appear you are personally invested in "proving" that .gov is honest to the American people (when it has proven itself otherwise), operates under the Rule of Law (when it has proven itself to act otherwise), beyond recriminations on any account concerning the events leading up to and concerning the day of 9/11 (which it has proven itself to be less than forthright and candid), and sets policies that are best for the American people and the country (which it, daily, proves it does otherwise: i.e., bailouts to banks, the Federal Reserve act, invasion by illegal aliens, NAFTA, CAFTA, etc.)?

Which .gov entity is paying you?, is what I want to know.

litus  posted on  2009-04-06   10:39:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: war (#43)

If there's a gag order, shit for brains, why are these out there in the public domain?

The only thing worse than a shill is a dumb shill.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-06   11:33:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: TwentyTwelve (#46)

The only thing worse than a shill is a dumb shill.

Irony is obviously lost on you.

That said, if there's a gag order, shit for brains, why are these out there in the public domain?

war  posted on  2009-04-06   11:52:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: litus (#45)

Why does it appear you are personally invested in "proving" that .gov is honest to the American people

Why would you take one instance and apply it universally?

That asked, nothing that you Moonbats have posted has stood up to scrutiny.

war  posted on  2009-04-06   11:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)

A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.

Based upon what?

war  posted on  2009-04-06   11:54:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: war (#48) (Edited)

nothing that you Moonbats have posted has stood up to scrutiny.

Speaking of painting with "broad brushes".

It's obvious that if what you claim, and what .gov claims was "crystal clear" and completely forthright and could withstand scrutiny, there would not exist duplicity in .gov statements and commentary, an unwillingness to shine a light into .gov's actions, its employees' statements and behaviors, compelling testimony and evidence which contradicts .gov claims, contradictory statements made by .gov and .gov employees, rush to eliminate evidence from a crime scene, not a presumption of "cause" for the collapse...which led to absolutely no investigation of steel support structures of the WTC7, etc.

litus  posted on  2009-04-06   12:04:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: litus (#50)

It's obvious that if what you claim, and what .gov claims was "crystal clear" and completely forthright and could withstand scrutiny,

So far it has depsite what your short wave radio talking head says - this week anyway. His and the other Jones' "theories" change so often it's hard keeping up with them...

an unwillingness to shine a light into .gov's actions, its employees' statements and behaviors, compelling testimony and evidence which contradicts .gov claims, contradictory statements made by .gov and .gov employees, rush to eliminate evidence from a crime scene, not a presumption of "cause" for the collapse...which led to absolutely no investigation of steel support structures of the WTC7, etc.

And this is what I Mean...that babble may ahve some code word meaning to you Moonies but it makes 0 sense syntactically or semantically to us normal folk...

war  posted on  2009-04-06   12:36:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)

A more realistic representation of the backbone of the WTC.

Based upon what?

war  posted on  2009-04-06   12:37:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: war (#51)

rush to eliminate evidence from a crime scene, not a presumption of "cause" for the collapse...which led to absolutely no investigation of steel support structures of the WTC7, etc.

And this is what I Mean...that babble may ahve some code word meaning to you Moonies but it makes 0 sense syntactically or semantically to us normal folk...

That is why, I presume, you still have yet to answer the question I posed to you twice, now a third time:

War: Why would any other steel [from WTC7] need to be analyzed? [NOTE to War: No steel, whatsoever, from the WTC7 was analyzed]

You're joking, right? You didn't just ask "why should a criminal investigation investigate the location and debris within and surrounding the area of a crime scene?"

War: Nope. You are claiming that a controlled demo;lition occurred. To use one of your fellow Moonbat's phraseology...you can't even support he "effect" of a CD which makes your argument of "cause" moot.

So, you are admitting that the investigation into the fire and collapse of a skyscraper, which could have led to the deaths of hundreds of people, began, at the outset, with the presumption that the CRIME SCENE was not, in fact, a crime scene. The authorities (police, FBI, CIA, etc.) ruled out a crime had occurred from the outset, prior to conducting any investigations, gathering evidence, and speaking to witnesses could have occurred. From the moment of the CRIME...it was deemed "accidental" in nature, and the authorities subsequently only followed policy and procedures for accidents!

The above is only babble to a disinformation .gov shill.

litus  posted on  2009-04-06   13:12:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: litus (#53)

What does analyzing the steel have to do with how the building fell?

/moron

war  posted on  2009-04-06   13:31:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: war (#54)

What does analyzing the steel have to do with how the building fell?

/moron

So what would be the problem with analyzing the materials that might have been a contributing cause? Or are you saying the buildings were supposed to fail in this fashion? What is YOUR problem with a complete investigation? What are you afraid of?

mininggold  posted on  2009-04-06   14:05:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: war (#55)

To War: What is YOUR problem with a complete investigation? What are you afraid of?

What is your true agenda?

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2009-04-06   14:11:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: war, mininggold (#54) (Edited)

What does analyzing the steel have to do with how the building fell?

Since when, in a criminal investigation involving the collapse of a building, explosions and fire does the investigation not include analyzing the support structures of said building....unless, of course, some kind of presumption was made prior to the investigation, which altered the normal course of investigations normally pursued for arson/criminal investigations.

I happen to know that arson investigations go much further into analyzing the "crime scene" than if it was presumed and believed, upon surface investigation that a crime was not, in fact, involved.

It was obvious to the entire world that a crime occurred on 9/11....except for the U.S. government, ATF, CIA, FBI, I guess.

litus  posted on  2009-04-06   14:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: All (#57)

*crickets*

litus  posted on  2009-04-06   15:43:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: mininggold (#55)

So what would be the problem with analyzing the materials that might have been a contributing cause?

They know what the contributing cause was...a fire that burned out of control for six hours compromised the buuilding's support structure..

Is your case that they set those thermite charges to activate after the building burned for six hours?

war  posted on  2009-04-07   8:31:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: litus (#57)

Since when, in a criminal investigation involving the collapse of a building, explosions and fire does the investigation not include analyzing the support structures of said building....unless, of course, some kind of presumption was made prior to the investigation, which altered the normal course of investigations normally pursued for arson/criminal investigations.

Is it your case that they set those thermite charges to activate after the building burned for six hours?

war  posted on  2009-04-07   8:31:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: litus (#58)

Huh?

war  posted on  2009-04-07   8:32:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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