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Title: Tuskegee Airmen Did Lose Bombers
Source:
AlterMedia.info
URL Source: http://us.altermedia.info/news-of-i ... men-did-lose-bombers_2091.html
Published: Apr 1, 2009
Author: James Buchanan
Post Date: 2009-04-09 15:51:04 by X-15
Keywords: black myths
Views: 266
Comments: 15
A recent news article reports “At least 25 bombers being escorted by the Tuskegee Airmen over Europe during World War II were shot down by enemy aircraft, according to a new Air Force report. The report contradicts the legend that the famed black aviators never lost a plane to fire from enemy aircraft. But historian William Holton said the discovery of lost bombers doesn’t tarnish the unit’s record.” Excuse me. Yes it does tarnish that unit’s record. Only a truly delusional liberal could claim that a perfect record and a flawed record were somehow “equal.” For decades I remember hearing PC propagandists on the History Channel bragging about how the (all Black) Tuskegee Airmen never lost a bomber during World War Two. There was even a movie made with this flawed premise. I always figured that the Germans must have been concentrating their few remaining fighters including the Me262 jet fighters over the most critical industries and the Tuskegee pilots weren’t trusted to fly escort for any really important bombing missions. Still, I was suspicious that they were claiming zero losses. So it finally comes out that they did have losses -at least 25 bombers shot down by enemy fighters. For every bomber shot down, there are usually several badly shot up. It’s probably safe to assume at least 100 bombers were damaged. We had to wait 62 years after the war, but the truth finally came out on this issue. I wonder how long it will take for someone to do an analysis to determine if the Tuskegee airmen did a below average job compared to the White fighter pilots. Don’t hold your breath for the History Channel to admit this. One interesting thing to note is that the Tuskegee airmen lost zero fighter planes even though they lost 25 bombers that they were supposed to be protecting. Usually there will be a few fighter plane losses to go along with the bomber losses –assuming the fighter pilots were making a serious effort to protect the bombers. A loss of zero escort fighters is a little suspicious. The 1,000 Tuskegee airmen claimed a total of 100 enemy planes shot down. Given the high number of poorly trained German teenagers sent up in obsolete fighters at the end of the war, this could be entirely possible. Shooting down a total amateur and fighting it out with the more experienced German pilots are two completely different things. The lack of fighter losses suggests that they ran away when any good German pilots turned up. One German fighter pilot, Erich Hartmann, shot down 352 planes during the war —over three times the total claimed by 1,000 Negro fighter pilots. I’m sure a lot of White people had considerable respect for those Black fighters pilots and thought that they were nice, honest model citizens. How come not one of them ever spoke up in the various war documentaries to admit that they lost some bombers? Seems like they all went right along with the PC lies. The Tuskegee airmen were part of an experiment by the ultra-liberal FDR. It’s no great surprise that a cloud of dishonesty surrounded that experiment long after the war was over.
Poster Comment: Tear down the myths....
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#1. To: X-15 (#0)
Percentage-wise, those guys did a whole bunch better with their planes than did John McCain with his.
Ouch, that'll leave a mark. Oh, wait, the Vietnamese already left their marks on McStain.... ;-)
_________________________________________________________________________ The OP has a bad link as a source. But I always believed the claim of no losses to fighters to be a little suspicious. Especially when the germans blew right through the escorts and didnt fight the mustangs.
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They lost bombers..and fighters: MSNBC Answers.com extensive article Law Enforcement Against Prohibition You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom.~~William Wallace ALAS, BABYLON. It's over. Last one here turn out the lights.
Had they gone up against good German pilots, they would have lost every time.
And you know that how? Because you're a racist pig and assume, falsely, that blacks are innately less competent because they have higher melanin count than you. Racism, of all kinds, ultimately is a materialist philosophy that assumes that man is nothing more than the physical envelope in which the spirit resides. So, it is in the end an Atheist philosophy. Zere Gut Herr Turdle!
""I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
Racist, yes, pig no, pug, yes. Precision is associated with blue eyes, which is why most pitchers and quarterbacks and golfers have blue eyes. It's also why I astonished a friend many years ago when I picked up his rifle and put a round through the head of a target 100 yards away, using an iron sight, while standing. If I was a fighter pilot, I'd go up against a black (all incompetent) and win every time. By the way, it's "sehr gut." I had German in middle school.
"Given the high number of poorly trained German teenagers sent up in obsolete fighters at the end of the war, this could be entirely possible". This author contradicts himself in the article. The airfields that were still remaining operated in a small area by the time they were launched that they could reach about any area in the Third Reich form the remaining airfields. Therefore the statement is not accurate. The targets that were left by that time were few because everything else had been destroyed. The fighter wings over Europe needed every last plane to escort the huge amount of bombers being sent out. So in closing the losses of the Luftwaffe aircraft during the war depleted any outdated fighters. In fact up till the last day of the war Germany was still producing fighters and armament. Many were rolled right off the production line right into battle. They just ran out of pilots to fly them. So the latest developed models were in production in the end. The ME-262 would have turned the tide in the air if Hitler didn't insist that it should be used as a bomber which delayed it's introduction into the war for a year. Do some research
The Hartmann's/Barkhorn's/Galland's of the Luftwaffe were the best fighter pilots in history because they had no choice other than to fly and fight until the war ended.
_________________________________________________________________________ A lack of a rising officer class in the Luftwaffe along with fuel shortages to train new pilots was enough of a problem without Hitler's meddling in the use of the ME-262 as you detailed.
_________________________________________________________________________ One of history's great tragedies, no doubt. Your other points were well-taken. The fuel and maintenance requirements were higher for these early jets and their production line was more susceptible to the overall Allied bomber effort. The key problem was not fuel but the inability to protect the very long runways required. The Allies identified them and targeted them without regard for losses, a common air doctrine the Allies used repeatedly regardless of casualties. This is all quite ordinary historical information.
That certainly seems logical considering the threat that the 262 represented to the allied fighters who would have had to go toe to toe with the zippy Messerschmidt. If I was the Supreme Allied Commander my first order of biz would have been to make sure that those damned jets never got off the ground. The long runways would have been a blessing from a tactical standpoint, and bombing them would have been much simpler (heavy flak notwithstanding) than trying to locate and destroy factories that manufactured critical components.
You would have made a good Supreme Allied Commander. It's not just the jet runways. Things like bombing Dresden to take out the ball bearing factories, these were all things to cut the throat of the Nazi war machine and establish air dominance. Of course, it wasn't so pretty if you were on a bomber crew, especially the American bombers that flew daylight missions.
Allied pilots learned how to shoot down the 262, however it was after its sorte when it slowed down to land. Allied fighters could then overtake its speed and shoot it down.
That is what we Walter Mitty-type of Supreme Allied Commanders call, "too little, too late". Once the ME262 had completed is ass kicking run it was quite likely that some brave souls would never see home again. (And as Dylan sang, "...Well, I don't mind the dyin' but I hate to leave my children cryin'...." I have only sympathy for those pilots of piston engine-powered fighters who engaged that amazing jet powered war plane. Even though the 1980 film THE FINAL COUNTDOWN was science fiction, when Kirk Douglas ordered the F-14 pilots to "splash the Zeros" I couldn't help but feel sorry for those Japanese A6M fighter pilots because they were so tragically mismatched (against the accidentally time warped Tomcats with over the horizon missiles-imagine being killed by a technology that you've never seen) to a point where their skill, courage, loyalty (to the Emperor) and personal valor were irrelevant. Even though there's no really polite way to kill a combatant I'm not particularly proud of the ways we tried to defeat the enemy with technology in Vietnam only to find that "Mr. Charles Nguyen" could live underground like a mole and never waiver from his commitment that "it ain't over until we say it's over!" And, the use of Agent Orange (Dioxen) (which resulted in my brother's untimely death) was proven to be folly because the burned jungle (it was primarily intended to defoliate The Ho Chi Minh trail) was completely regrown within 6 months, but that arrogant reliance on technology caused needless death and misery to countless numbers of innocents and combatants, flora and fauna. And, ironically, there was apparently big bux to be made in supplying the chemical but not much profit in equipping our people with proper protective gear to prevent exposure while handling, loading and spraying the nasty stuff. And, if the shabby treatment of vets is any indication there isn't ever going to be enough money for medical care for Agent Orange (or Depleted Uranium) victims, either.
#2. To: lodwick (#1)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#3. To: X-15 (#0)
#4. To: X-15 (#0)
Tuskegee Airmen Did Lose Bombers
The 83-year-old Ludlum, in a telephone interview Thursday, made clear that he has great respect for the Tuskegee Airmen and liked being escorted by them because of their aggressiveness. He said he knew he was being escorted by the airmen on the day he was shot down because one of the fighter pilots, Starling B. Penn, was shot down at the same time and ended up in the same German prison camp as Ludlum.
It appears the rumor was started by the media (a newspaper) during the war
"Corporation: An entity created for the legal protection of its human parasites, whose sole purpose is profit and self-perpetuation." ~~ IndieTx
#5. To: X-15 (#0)
Dancing Turtles and Bouncing Boobs...that's Turtle Island.
#6. To: Turtle (#5)
#7. To: Original_Intent (#6)
(Edited)
Because you're a racist pig and assume, falsely, that blacks are innately less competent because they have higher melanin count than you.
Dancing Turtles and Bouncing Boobs...that's Turtle Island.
#8. To: X-15 (#0)
"I always figured that the Germans must have been concentrating their few remaining fighters including the Me262 jet fighters over the most critical industries and the Tuskegee pilots weren’t trusted to fly escort for any really important bombing missions."
#9. To: Turtle (#5)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#10. To: MING THE MERCILESS (#8)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#11. To: MING THE MERCILESS, X-15 (#8)
The ME-262 would have turned the tide in the air if Hitler didn't insist that it should be used as a bomber which delayed it's introduction into the war for a year.
#12. To: TooConservative (#11)
The key problem was not fuel but the inability to protect the very long runways required. The Allies identified them and targeted them without regard for losses, a common air doctrine the Allies used repeatedly regardless of casualties. This is all quite ordinary historical information.
#13. To: HOUNDDAWG (#12)
#14. To: TooConservative (#11)
#15. To: MING THE MERCILESS, TooConservative (#14)
Allied pilots learned how to shoot down the 262, however it was after its sorte when it slowed down to land. Allied fighters could then overtake its speed and shoot it down.
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