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Title: Judge Bans Religious Song From School
Source:
UPI
URL Source: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/04 ... rom-school/UPI-40081239944963/
Published: Apr 19, 2009
Author: UPI
Post Date: 2009-04-19 17:51:39 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 2086
Comments: 79
JACKSONVILLE, Fla., April 17 (UPI) -- A federal judge has banned a Florida elementary school from having children sing a country song, "In God We Still Trust," at a school assembly. The lyrics attack the principal of separation of church and state, U.S. District Judge Harvey Schlesinger said. He issued a preliminary injunction Wednesday against the Webster School in St. Augustine, The Jacksonville Times-Union reported. While some religious songs can be sung in public schools, "In God We Still Trust" by Diamond Rio is "patently religious and proselytizing," the judge said. He cited some of the lyrics: "There's no separation. ... We're one nation under Him ... Now there are those among us who want to push Him out and erase His name from everything this country is all about ... Now it's time for all believers to make our voices heard." The parents of two Webster students filed the lawsuit in March, saying their children were being forced to endorse views they do not share.
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#1. To: All (#0)
In other news, "Be a Muslim for a Week" commences tomorrow ! (Noted: Judge Schlesinger)
I wonder which denomination is the right one? Some denominations see God as a ultimate hypocritical terrorist, others see God as a magical genie that wants them to be rich beyond their wildest dreams, others see God as ... and on and on and on... "Now it's time for all believers to make our voices heard." What a cacophony that would be. Like a stadium full of people all stomping on a cats tail at the same time. .
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How can you even defend this song? I can see defending a vague reference but this one is basically, "fuck ya'll we don't need no fucking constamution this is Jebus land." According to this song, that is perfectly OK!
Judging from their geography, Southern Baptists.
Do you support requiring student to recite the Pledge of Allegiance? Other than direct learning materials, what right do government schools have to require students to say anything?
Ah, so they are the "God is an ultimate terrorist" kind of christian. I knew it would be one of the 2 examples I posted. They are so common.
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Assholes ! ;-)
Freedom is tough, isn't it? It doesn't leave the government with much of a role in anything. It damned sure doesn't have a role to play in requiring children to speak or sing about religion. Of course this contradicts our hopes of protecting our "culture." But that too is probably best left to the people. If the government would just defend our borders, we the people will do the rest just fine.
I don't believe good parenting includes government schools for children.
I'm sure we agree if not for different reasons. I guess you and I could hammer out a mutually acceptable curriculum if we worked at it. We might have to skip biology, which is most unfortunate. We could definitely skip the birds and the bees. Damn that was easy.
But the same judge wouldn't bat an eye at Jewish interference via 'holocaust education'.
My Grandpa learned enough to be able to thrive with an 8th grade education - in a one room school house for 40 children; K-12. THAT government school and curriculum would probably be acceptable to me. Time Warp Back Please ;-)
I hope they didn't teach that starlight takes less than 6,000 years to reach us here. But I think I would gladly trade what they were teaching then for what we're getting now. Minus the pledge of allegiance, which at that time did not have the "under God" clause in it even.
"Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated." And if you're a sick, twisted-freak - seek help !!
How did this Pledge of Allegiance to a flag replace the US Constitution and Bill of Rights in the affections of many Americans? Among the nations in the world, only the USA and the Philippines, imitating the USA, have a pledge to their flag. Who institutionalized the Pledge as the cornerstone of American patriotic programs and indoctrination in the public and parochial schools? In 1892, a socialist named Francis Bellamy created the Pledge of Allegiance for *Youth's* *Companion*, a national family magazine for youth published in Boston. The magazine had the largest national circulation of its day with a circulation around 500 thousand. Two liberal businessmen, Daniel Ford and James Upham, his nephew, owned *Youth's* *Companion*. One hundred years ago the American flag was rarely seen in the classroom or in front of the school Upham changed that. In 1888, the magazine began a campaign to sell American flags to the public schools. By 1892, his magazine had sold American flags to about 26 thousands schools(1). In 1891, Upham had the idea of using the celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' discovery of America to promote the use of the flag in the public schools. The same year, the magazine hired Daniel Ford's radical young friend, Baptist minister, Nationalist, and Christian Socialist leader, Francis Bellamy, to help Upham in his public relations work. Bellamy was the first cousin of the famous American socialist, Edward Bellamy. Edward Bellamy's futuristic novel, *Looking* *Backward*, published in 1888, described a utopian Boston in the year 2000. The book spawned an elitist socialist movement in Boston known as "Nationalism," whose members wanted the federal government to national most of the American economy. Francis Bellamy was a member of this movement and a vice president of its auxiliary group, the Society of Christian Socialists(2). He was a baptist minister and he lectured and preached on the virtues of socialism and the evils of capitalism. He gave a speech on "Jesus the Socialist" and a series of sermons on "The Socialism of the Primitive Church." In 1891, he was forced to resign from his Boston church, the Bethany Baptist church, because of his socialist activities. He then joined the staff of the *Youth's* *Companion*(3). By February 1892, Francis Bellamy and Upham had lined up the National Education Association to support the *Youth's* *Companion* as a sponsor of the national public schools' observance of Columbus Day along with the use of the American flag. By June 29, Bellamy and Upham had arranged for Congress and President Benjamin Harrison to announce a national proclamation making the public school flag ceremony the center of the national Columbus Day celebrations for 1892(4). Bellamy, under the supervision of Upham, wrote the program for this celebration, including its flag salute, the Pledge of Allegiance. His version was, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands -- one nation indivisible -- with liberty and justice for all." This program and its pledge appeared in the September 8 issue of *Youth's* *Companion*(5). He considered putting the words "fraternity" and "equality" in the Pledge but decided they were too radical and controversial for public schools(6). The original Pledge was recited while giving a stiff, uplifted right hand salute, criticized and discontinued during WWII. The words "my flag" were changed to "the flag of the United States of America" because it was feared that the children of immigrants might confuse "my flag" for the flag of their homeland. The phrase, "Under God," was added by Congress and President Eisenhower in 1954 at the urging of the Knights of Columbus(7). The American Legion's constitution includes the following goal: "To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism." One of its major standing committees was the "Americanism Commission" and its subsidiary, the "Counter Subversive Activities Committee." To the fear of immigrants, it added the fear of communism(8). Over the years the Legion has worked closely with the NEA and with the US Office of Education. The Legion insisted on "one hundred percent" Americanism in public school courses in American history, civics, geography and English. The Pledge was a part of this Americanism campaign(9) and, in 1950, the Legion adopted the Pledge as an official part of its own ritual(10). In 1922, the Ku Klux Klan, which also had adopted the "one hundred percent Americanism" theme along with the flag ceremonies and the Pledge, became a political power in the state of Oregon and arranged for legislation to be passes requiring all Catholic children to attend public schools. The US Supreme Court later overturned this legislation(11). Perhaps a team of social scientists and historians could explain why over the last century the Pledge of Allegiance has become a major centerpiece in American patriotism programs. A pledge or loyalty oath for children was not built around the Declaration of Independence -- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Or the Gettysburg address -- "a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal..." Apparently, over the last century, Americans have been uncomfortable with the word "equality" as a patriotic theme. In 1992 the nation will begin its second century with the Pledge of Allegiance. Perhaps the time has come to see that this allegiance should be to the US constitution and not to a piece of cloth.
The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama
Please elaborate. What are these ??? ??
What, and raise generation after generation of "live free or die" freedom lovers? That would be unamerican!
In 1892, a socialist named Francis Bellamy... I didn't know this!!
puts a different light on it, doesn't it?
The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama
Yes! And now I feel guilty for posting to what I would "pledge" on that Obama Video Pledging thread, lol!! oops!
LOL
I think the reporter means "principle". ("Principle" is defined as "judges think it's in the law just like the "law" that requires persons to file personal income tax returns") As opposed to an actual written plank of any particular amendment. If it was going to be written anywhere it would be in the 1st amendment. It isn't there. There is a plank that binds govt down from interfering in religion, but not vice versa. OH, how that pisses those tyrants off! And, in 1802 When President Jefferson wrote the Danbury, CT Baptists and said "There ought to be a wall of separation...." he was apparently wishing for something that did not exist under the law, and this was thirteen years after the Constitution took effect! And, this mysterious wall appears with a vengeance in the media when Pat Robertson launches an exploratory for the presidency, but, it's unnecessary when VP candidate Joe Lieberman refuses to ride on The Sabbath because he's an observant practitioner of his religion. In that case the goodly Senator from CT is covered in hushed, quiet, respectful tones on news shows. This "wall" may stop Christians from singing in schools, but it won't prevent tax dollars from being used to mount heat seeking missiles on the roofs of Jewish schools and synagogues.
Great rant !
Thanks. If the law as interpreted for schools was equally enforced then Congress and The Supreme Court would not open sessions with prayer and even the swearing in-oath of office would be discarded upon objection by Muslims or any other "offended non-Christians/atheists." And, why are Christmas creches on public property such a threat to the rule of law when Chanukah bushes and Stars Of David are not? And, should food stamp recipients be permitted to buy Kosher products with tax dollars? Why, yes if Christians are permitted to rip food stamps out of the book and drop them in Christian collection plates!
In God We Still Trust - Diamond Rio I think I see an Alabama courthouse in this video. Coral Ridge ministries, tireless defender of judge Roy Moore, is Zionist, Noahide to the core. This is the kind of tripe that the evangelicals pushed on America after 9/11, all the while saying that our Judeo-Christian culture was obligated to cleanup terrorism in the Mideast to protect Israel. The silly candelabras on Christmas where the creches used to be are justified by the same types, who claim that "religious freedom" is what brought the original colonists here. You know the ones who outlawed Quakers and burned witches. And let's remember that without white, Christian American evangelicals, Israel would be a smoking ruin by now, or might never have come to exist in the first place.
And just who came up with this so-called "principle?" Could it be a lawyer's opinion (legal revisionism/legislation for the communist and jewish causes) or might it be in the Constitution somewhere? Gee I wonder.... The StateInc boogeymen we're told to fear are bearded Muslims named Bin Drinkin and white males with crew cuts and Bibles. Who is missing?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition LOL Your grip on history is lacking. Modern Israel is the creation of Godless-One-Worlders.
William Sheppard, an attorney for the plaintiffs, declined to comment, as did school district Superintendent Joseph Joyner, who said he hadn't heard about the judge's ruling until he was asked to comment on it. In a statement to The St. Augustine Record after the lawsuit was filed, Joyner dismissed the parents as "someone again using the school system (as well as taxpayers' money to defend the lawsuit) for their own personal agenda." A telephone message left for one of the district's attorneys was not returned Wednesday. Schlesinger also wrote that, as third-graders, the younger plaintiffs are "more easily influenced by their teachers" and "extremely sensitive to signs of disapproval and disappointment from the same teachers and their classmates." To that end, the defense -- which includes the school district, Webster Principal George Leidigh and the two teachers in charge of the program, Dawn Caronna and Debbie Moore -- "ostracized the objecting students from their classmates and effectively penalized them for exercising their constitutional right to object," the judge ruled. Also on Wednesday, the judge filed a separate ruling against the defense, and the defense filed two separate motions to throw out the lawsuit. Citing procedural issues, Schlesinger threw out the affidavits signed by the Leidigh and the two teachers in which they denied telling students they had to choose between performing the song and sitting out the recital. www.staugustine.com/stori...609/news_041609_017.shtml I think the case is pretty well made here that the school was trying to require kids to listen to and participate in the singing of this song. Non-religious children or children of other faiths would not feel comfortable with this music.
Americans were told that World War One and World War Two were to make the world safe for democracy, religious freedom, and especially in the Second World War, Jews. Christians did the lion share of the fighting and dying, and their churches told them God was on their side.
Modern Israel is the creation of Godless-One-Worlders.
Without American interference in the two world wars, there would be no Israel. Troops were willing to go because their churches told them it was the right thing to do. Yes, secular people may have been involved, but the Rabbis talking up the wars made a big difference with the masses of religious Americans. Without America's Christian religious beliefs, Zionism would be fairly helpless. We are the force behind them. Of course they're nuclear now, but they still need us. And they get our help through the Christian right.
The supporters of Judeo-Christianity (like John Hagee) are all too anxious to please their Jewish masters, and they will oppose any public display that Jews claim is offensive. Hagee even went so far as to excise the name of Jesus at an "interfaith" gathering of "his Christians" and Jews to avoid offending his oh so intolerant of other religious beliefs Jewish pals. You'll not find any Zionist-Noahide Jews in Roy Moore's "commandments-in-the-courtroom-and-courthouse-entrance" camp. The fact that millions of easily misled Christian Jihadists cannot see that they're bedding with the enemy of their 501 C(3) corporate religions is no excuse to "interpret away" rights that existed prior to adverse court decisions and unconstitutional public education indoctrination. This makes as much sense as supporting blatantly unconstitutional gun laws because you feel they have a positive effect-mandatory punishment for some crimes committed with firearms. The first amendment is adequate to prevent any govt support for religion. But, the same people you mentioned have distorted the Bill Of Rights to permit support for a murderous Jewish state while silencing school choirs and voluntary after school prayer meetings. Properly enforced the constitution is up to the task. If that means that an occasional president has to write letters to religious pressure groups (Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists) and just say "NO!" then so be it. These laws are poor substitutes for political courage and character.
fixed it for ya. ;-)
I disagree because the 10 commandments themselves are a superset of the 7 Noahide laws. By definition, they include them. Coral Ridge was Moore's primary supporter, and they're Zionist to the hilt. I think it's interesting that the while Roy Moore thing happened right when we were going into Iraq. Interesting timing.
LOL Why would I have thought that you would throw out the 10 commandments ! ;-)
Which of the 10 commandments would you have our government enforce?
I agree with that statement. Personally, I think the song lyrics are blatant hypocrisy at best. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition WTH are you talking about ? The government has a clear set of guidelines with which to operate.
The school is acting with governmental authority here. He's obligated to restrain the government's hand. It does not have the power to compel religious expression. I don't know the judge but he made the correct ruling.
What about Father Charles Coughlin? His radio audience was larger than any single church congregation's and people were more aware of the propaganda than you realize, now that history has been sanitized and re-written. The fact is Americans wanted no part of the war in Europe which is why baiting Japan (Germany's ally) into Pearl Harbor was necessary. When Americans died (The Lusitania, Pearl Harbor) we had all the reason we'd ever need to fight in two wars and our men and boys damn sure weren't volunteering to "make the world safe for Israel." ____________________________ (Ezra) "Pound (another influential radio voice-HD) was also frequently visited by his protegé, a Library of Congress researcher named Eustace Mullins. Pound commissioned Mullins to write a book about the history of the Federal Reserve and to tell it like a detective story. Pound believed that the bankers in charge of the Federal Reserve and their associates in the Bank of England were responsible for getting the United States into both World Wars, in an effort to drive up government debt beyond sustainable levels (the national debt indeed rose astronomically because of the wars). The book, Secrets Of The Federal Reserve, charges that bankers hide behind the screen of the central banks and pull political strings to drive countries into the war, creating immense profits for themselves as the principal beneficiaries of wartime debt. Pound advocated an abandonment of the current system of money being created by private bankers. He favored government issued currency[20] with no interest to pay, preventing the need for an income tax and national debt, much like the system used by the Pennsylvania Colony from 1723 to 1764.[citation needed] Pound argued that his views on money aligned with those of Thomas Jefferson, as well as with Benjamin Franklin's Colonial Scrip." And, have you forgotten Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh?
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe lyrics attack the principal of separation of church and state, U.S. District Judge Harvey Schlesinger said.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#2. To: Brian S (#0)
(Edited)
"There's no separation. ... We're one nation under Him ...
#3. To: Rotara (#1)
(Edited)
In other news, "Be a Muslim for a Week" commences tomorrow !
#4. To: PSUSA (#2)
I wonder which denomination is the right one?
#5. To: Rotara (#1)
#6. To: Rhino369 (#4)
#7. To: Deasy, rhino369 (#5)
I believe in freedom of speech.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#8. To: Rotara (#7)
#9. To: Deasy (#8)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#10. To: Rotara (#9)
#11. To: Brian S (#0)
The lyrics attack the principal of separation of church and state, U.S. District Judge Harvey Schlesinger said...
#12. To: Deasy (#10)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#13. To: Rotara (#12)
#14. To: Deasy (#13)
I'd rather they pledge to honor the golden rule..
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#15. To: Deasy, Rotara (#13)
I'm sure y'all have read this~
#16. To: christine (#15)
the US Constitution and Bill of Rights
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#17. To: christine, Rotara (#15)
Perhaps a team of social scientists and historians could explain why over the last century the Pledge of Allegiance has become a major centerpiece in American patriotism programs. A pledge or loyalty oath for children was not built around the Declaration of Independence...
#18. To: christine (#15)
Who institutionalized the Pledge as the cornerstone of American patriotic programs and indoctrination in the public and parochial schools?
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#19. To: litus (#18)
#20. To: christine (#19)
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#21. To: Deasy (#17)
un-a-murriKan I say !
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#22. To: Brian S, Jethro Tull, christine, lodwick, bluegrass, Rotara (#0)
(Edited)
The lyrics attack the principal of separation of church and state, U.S. District Judge Harvey Schlesinger said.
#23. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#24. To: Rotara (#23)
#25. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)
#26. To: Brian S (#0)
(Edited)
the principal of separation of church and state
#27. To: HOUNDDAWG (#24)
Yer killun me tonight DAWG !
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#28. To: Deasy (#25)
And let's remember that without white, Christian American evangelicals, Israel would be a smoking ruin by now, or might never have come to exist in the first place.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#29. To: IndieTX (#26)
"In God We Still Trust" is a "song overtly espousing a specific religious viewpoint and attacking of those who do not share in the same belief," Schlesinger wrote in a 24-page decision.
#30. To: Rotara (#28)
Modern Israel is the creation of Godless-One-Worlders.
#31. To: Deasy (#30)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#32. To: Rotara (#31)
#33. To: Deasy (#25)
#34. To: Deasy (#32)
Without ameriKan interference in the two world wars, there would be no Israel.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#35. To: HOUNDDAWG (#33)
You'll not find any Zionist-Noahide Jews in Roy Moore's "commandments-in-the-courtroom-and-courthouse-entrance" camp.
#36. To: Deasy (#35)
I disagree because the 10 commandments themselves
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#37. To: Rotara (#36)
#38. To: Deasy (#29)
(Edited)
think the case is pretty well made here that the school was trying to require kids to listen to and participate in the singing of this song. Non-religious children or children of other faiths would not feel comfortable with this music.
However, neither the judge or the principle he summons are concerned with altruism or children's welfare.
#39. To: Deasy (#37)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#40. To: IndieTX (#38)
#41. To: Deasy (#32)
Without American interference in the two world wars, there would be no Israel. Troops were willing to go because their churches told them it was the right thing to do.
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