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Title: Judge Bans Religious Song From School
Source:
UPI
URL Source: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/04 ... rom-school/UPI-40081239944963/
Published: Apr 19, 2009
Author: UPI
Post Date: 2009-04-19 17:51:39 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 2052
Comments: 79
JACKSONVILLE, Fla., April 17 (UPI) -- A federal judge has banned a Florida elementary school from having children sing a country song, "In God We Still Trust," at a school assembly. The lyrics attack the principal of separation of church and state, U.S. District Judge Harvey Schlesinger said. He issued a preliminary injunction Wednesday against the Webster School in St. Augustine, The Jacksonville Times-Union reported. While some religious songs can be sung in public schools, "In God We Still Trust" by Diamond Rio is "patently religious and proselytizing," the judge said. He cited some of the lyrics: "There's no separation. ... We're one nation under Him ... Now there are those among us who want to push Him out and erase His name from everything this country is all about ... Now it's time for all believers to make our voices heard." The parents of two Webster students filed the lawsuit in March, saying their children were being forced to endorse views they do not share.
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#22. To: Brian S, Jethro Tull, christine, lodwick, bluegrass, Rotara (#0)
(Edited)
I think the reporter means "principle". ("Principle" is defined as "judges think it's in the law just like the "law" that requires persons to file personal income tax returns") As opposed to an actual written plank of any particular amendment. If it was going to be written anywhere it would be in the 1st amendment. It isn't there. There is a plank that binds govt down from interfering in religion, but not vice versa. OH, how that pisses those tyrants off! And, in 1802 When President Jefferson wrote the Danbury, CT Baptists and said "There ought to be a wall of separation...." he was apparently wishing for something that did not exist under the law, and this was thirteen years after the Constitution took effect! And, this mysterious wall appears with a vengeance in the media when Pat Robertson launches an exploratory for the presidency, but, it's unnecessary when VP candidate Joe Lieberman refuses to ride on The Sabbath because he's an observant practitioner of his religion. In that case the goodly Senator from CT is covered in hushed, quiet, respectful tones on news shows. This "wall" may stop Christians from singing in schools, but it won't prevent tax dollars from being used to mount heat seeking missiles on the roofs of Jewish schools and synagogues.
Great rant !
Thanks. If the law as interpreted for schools was equally enforced then Congress and The Supreme Court would not open sessions with prayer and even the swearing in-oath of office would be discarded upon objection by Muslims or any other "offended non-Christians/atheists." And, why are Christmas creches on public property such a threat to the rule of law when Chanukah bushes and Stars Of David are not? And, should food stamp recipients be permitted to buy Kosher products with tax dollars? Why, yes if Christians are permitted to rip food stamps out of the book and drop them in Christian collection plates!
In God We Still Trust - Diamond Rio I think I see an Alabama courthouse in this video. Coral Ridge ministries, tireless defender of judge Roy Moore, is Zionist, Noahide to the core. This is the kind of tripe that the evangelicals pushed on America after 9/11, all the while saying that our Judeo-Christian culture was obligated to cleanup terrorism in the Mideast to protect Israel. The silly candelabras on Christmas where the creches used to be are justified by the same types, who claim that "religious freedom" is what brought the original colonists here. You know the ones who outlawed Quakers and burned witches. And let's remember that without white, Christian American evangelicals, Israel would be a smoking ruin by now, or might never have come to exist in the first place.
And just who came up with this so-called "principle?" Could it be a lawyer's opinion (legal revisionism/legislation for the communist and jewish causes) or might it be in the Constitution somewhere? Gee I wonder.... The StateInc boogeymen we're told to fear are bearded Muslims named Bin Drinkin and white males with crew cuts and Bibles. Who is missing?
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition LOL Your grip on history is lacking. Modern Israel is the creation of Godless-One-Worlders.
William Sheppard, an attorney for the plaintiffs, declined to comment, as did school district Superintendent Joseph Joyner, who said he hadn't heard about the judge's ruling until he was asked to comment on it. In a statement to The St. Augustine Record after the lawsuit was filed, Joyner dismissed the parents as "someone again using the school system (as well as taxpayers' money to defend the lawsuit) for their own personal agenda." A telephone message left for one of the district's attorneys was not returned Wednesday. Schlesinger also wrote that, as third-graders, the younger plaintiffs are "more easily influenced by their teachers" and "extremely sensitive to signs of disapproval and disappointment from the same teachers and their classmates." To that end, the defense -- which includes the school district, Webster Principal George Leidigh and the two teachers in charge of the program, Dawn Caronna and Debbie Moore -- "ostracized the objecting students from their classmates and effectively penalized them for exercising their constitutional right to object," the judge ruled. Also on Wednesday, the judge filed a separate ruling against the defense, and the defense filed two separate motions to throw out the lawsuit. Citing procedural issues, Schlesinger threw out the affidavits signed by the Leidigh and the two teachers in which they denied telling students they had to choose between performing the song and sitting out the recital. www.staugustine.com/stori...609/news_041609_017.shtml I think the case is pretty well made here that the school was trying to require kids to listen to and participate in the singing of this song. Non-religious children or children of other faiths would not feel comfortable with this music.
Americans were told that World War One and World War Two were to make the world safe for democracy, religious freedom, and especially in the Second World War, Jews. Christians did the lion share of the fighting and dying, and their churches told them God was on their side.
Modern Israel is the creation of Godless-One-Worlders.
Without American interference in the two world wars, there would be no Israel. Troops were willing to go because their churches told them it was the right thing to do. Yes, secular people may have been involved, but the Rabbis talking up the wars made a big difference with the masses of religious Americans. Without America's Christian religious beliefs, Zionism would be fairly helpless. We are the force behind them. Of course they're nuclear now, but they still need us. And they get our help through the Christian right.
The supporters of Judeo-Christianity (like John Hagee) are all too anxious to please their Jewish masters, and they will oppose any public display that Jews claim is offensive. Hagee even went so far as to excise the name of Jesus at an "interfaith" gathering of "his Christians" and Jews to avoid offending his oh so intolerant of other religious beliefs Jewish pals. You'll not find any Zionist-Noahide Jews in Roy Moore's "commandments-in-the-courtroom-and-courthouse-entrance" camp. The fact that millions of easily misled Christian Jihadists cannot see that they're bedding with the enemy of their 501 C(3) corporate religions is no excuse to "interpret away" rights that existed prior to adverse court decisions and unconstitutional public education indoctrination. This makes as much sense as supporting blatantly unconstitutional gun laws because you feel they have a positive effect-mandatory punishment for some crimes committed with firearms. The first amendment is adequate to prevent any govt support for religion. But, the same people you mentioned have distorted the Bill Of Rights to permit support for a murderous Jewish state while silencing school choirs and voluntary after school prayer meetings. Properly enforced the constitution is up to the task. If that means that an occasional president has to write letters to religious pressure groups (Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists) and just say "NO!" then so be it. These laws are poor substitutes for political courage and character.
fixed it for ya. ;-)
I disagree because the 10 commandments themselves are a superset of the 7 Noahide laws. By definition, they include them. Coral Ridge was Moore's primary supporter, and they're Zionist to the hilt. I think it's interesting that the while Roy Moore thing happened right when we were going into Iraq. Interesting timing.
LOL Why would I have thought that you would throw out the 10 commandments ! ;-)
Which of the 10 commandments would you have our government enforce?
I agree with that statement. Personally, I think the song lyrics are blatant hypocrisy at best. Law Enforcement Against Prohibition WTH are you talking about ? The government has a clear set of guidelines with which to operate.
The school is acting with governmental authority here. He's obligated to restrain the government's hand. It does not have the power to compel religious expression. I don't know the judge but he made the correct ruling.
What about Father Charles Coughlin? His radio audience was larger than any single church congregation's and people were more aware of the propaganda than you realize, now that history has been sanitized and re-written. The fact is Americans wanted no part of the war in Europe which is why baiting Japan (Germany's ally) into Pearl Harbor was necessary. When Americans died (The Lusitania, Pearl Harbor) we had all the reason we'd ever need to fight in two wars and our men and boys damn sure weren't volunteering to "make the world safe for Israel." ____________________________ (Ezra) "Pound (another influential radio voice-HD) was also frequently visited by his protegé, a Library of Congress researcher named Eustace Mullins. Pound commissioned Mullins to write a book about the history of the Federal Reserve and to tell it like a detective story. Pound believed that the bankers in charge of the Federal Reserve and their associates in the Bank of England were responsible for getting the United States into both World Wars, in an effort to drive up government debt beyond sustainable levels (the national debt indeed rose astronomically because of the wars). The book, Secrets Of The Federal Reserve, charges that bankers hide behind the screen of the central banks and pull political strings to drive countries into the war, creating immense profits for themselves as the principal beneficiaries of wartime debt. Pound advocated an abandonment of the current system of money being created by private bankers. He favored government issued currency[20] with no interest to pay, preventing the need for an income tax and national debt, much like the system used by the Pennsylvania Colony from 1723 to 1764.[citation needed] Pound argued that his views on money aligned with those of Thomas Jefferson, as well as with Benjamin Franklin's Colonial Scrip." And, have you forgotten Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh?
Far fewer Americans in those days were Catholic, and Coughlin was effectively sidelined for the majority of Americnas in the mainstream media.
And just who came up with this so-called "principle?" Could it be a lawyer's opinion (legal revisionism/legislation for the communist and jewish causes) or might it be in the Constitution somewhere? Gee I wonder.... It was a lawyers opinion, Thomas Jefferson to be exact. The separation of church and state is the first amendment, the prohibition against religious tests in the fifth Article, and the total lack of power granted to Congress to regulate, or be regulated by religion. The separation of church and state is the name for the concept. Just like the Constitution follows the separation of powers, despite not actually having the term in it. The Constitution gives the state no power over religion and the church no power over the state. This is some pretty basic US history guys, its sad seeing so many supposed Constitutionalists so ignorant about its very basic history.
When Americans died (The Lusitania, Pearl Harbor) we had all the reason we'd ever need to fight in two wars and our men and boys damn sure weren't volunteering to "make the world safe for Israel." Thank you. I was going to see if Big Deasy possessed this knowledge; now he/she has no excuses ! ;-)
There's room for debate as to how much restraint the first amendment can place on public servants who are expressing their personal opinions. That's not the case when the school assigns children to sing songs.
Go to Arlington sometime and look at all the crosses there. The same is true for our cemetery at Normandy. These people believed they were doing God's work. A strong appeal to Christian morals was essential in American recruiting efforts.
I think its kind of funny that many claim the US is founded of Christianity when only 2 on the commandments were ever illegal, maybe 2.5 (if you count perjury as being the 9th commandment). And Commandments 1,2 and 3 are specifically granted as our most basic right under the first amendment.
The Myth of Separation of Church and State Posted on November 11, 2004 12:00 AM by Joel Comm Ask the average American which constitution the phrase "separation of church and state" appears in and the majority will look at you as though only a moron wouldn't know the answer to the question. The most common reply will be "The United States Constitution". Imagine the surprise of these same people when they discover that not only does the phrase NOT appear in the U.S. Constitution, but the words DO appear in a version of the Russian communist constitution! David Barton has written an excellent piece explaining how the concept of separation has been totally redefined and turned on its head by those who would seek to supress the place of religion and faith in America. Here is an excerpt of interest... Thomas Jefferson had no intention of allowing the government to limit, restrict, regulate, or interfere with public religious practices. He believed, along with the other Founders, that the First Amendment had been enacted only to prevent the federal establishment of a national denomination-a fact he made clear in a letter to fellow-signer of the Declaration of Independence Benjamin Rush. Jefferson had committed himself as President to pursuing the purpose of the First Amendment: preventing the 'establishment of a particular form of Christianity' by the Episcopalians, Congregationalists, or any other denomination. Since this was Jefferson's view concerning religious expression, in his short and polite reply to the Danbury Baptists on January 1, 1802, he assured them that they need not fear; that the free exercise of religion would never be interfered with by the federal government. As he explained: The article is well-documented and researched, and Barton is an expert in this arena, having dedicated years of studies to understanding the issue. It is well worth your examination.
Hey, I'm not happy about our sheeple doing the NWO's bloody bidding any more than you are. Let's just work with facts and not feelings.
Has the government ever put even a dent in your sin ?
I disagree because the 10 commandments themselves are a superset of the 7 Noahide laws. By definition, they include them. Coral Ridge was Moore's primary supporter, and they're Zionist to the hilt. Dr. D. James Kennedy was only "Zionist-Noahide" to the extent that he was incorporated. He built his popularity as a Puritan in opposition to "Spring break bikini hedonism" in Ft. Lauderdale, and made peace with Mr. ewe gno Hudi in the required ways to go national (Jerry Falwell had to have an "epiphany" and suddenly realize that he was wrong about Segregation.) Both of these successful TV pastors shilled for Israeli resettlement orgs and such, and a strict reading of their beliefs supports the premise that this is a Christian act. (because these Jews will be Christians after the Second Coming.) Now I won't support it and I don't like it (or the special immigration privileges for supposedly poisecuted Russian Jews) but I won't label those who pragmatically decided to do it as "Noahide". Religious hustling is not the sole province of Jews. Christians are quite good at it in fact, and they require no grad school courses from Zionists to perfect their schemes.
Between Kennedy and Steinem, it's no wonder the white population is declining in America.
The dividing line seems clear to me. When they are acting in their official role none is allowed. When they aren't (and are truly exerting no pressure, direct or indirect, and using no powers, or government property) they are allowed total freedom to express personal opinion. The funniest part about the whole thing is the same churches who espouse the lie that there is no separation of church and state owe their entire existence to the separation of church and state. Do they really want an America where Texas and Calfornia are paying pedophile priests because their citizens establish a state Catholic church? What they are really saying is they want the government to preach for them, and to hell with following the US constitution. Though I'm guessing most here are ignorant, and are just parroting bad information they got from other conservatives.
LOL You calling other 4um'ers 'ignorant' is funny. Ha ha !
You maybe too stupid to realize it but you are essentially arguing for a more powerful government. A government that can religiously indoctrinate your children. I'm arguing that the government cannot do so. Go ahead and give big government access to your child's soul. Do you really think they are going teach them the bible? Nope. Go ahead establish an American church and people like me would infest it, then destroy religion in America for ever. Go to Europe and see how countries with no separation of church and state are doing in religiosity. Some of the most atheist nations on earth have state protestant churches.
LOL You calling other 4um'ers 'ignorant' is funny. Ha ha ! The ones arguing that the government has any power to teach religion, yes. They are ignorant or malevolent. Most people here are patriots, if not misguided, so I assume they are ignorant.
Now the idiot savant is calling me stoooopid. LOL
Go jerk off or something. [Edit: Take advantage of that God hating woody you worked up]
Go jerk off or something. [Edit: Take advantage of that God hating woody you worked up] Everyone sees your retreat into indecency for what it is. I take great pleasure that you probably know that.
I take great pleasure in putting punks like you on BOZO and forgetting you exist. Bye !
Great point. In principle, 4um posters say that they want less government. If that principle were strictly followed, such restraints (which I believe exist in the Constitution) would block a lot of secularist and Christian reliance on government to further their social objectives.
Bye ! Cowardly little pricks like you disgust me. You pick a fight then bozo me as you claim victory. Well, have a good life being that guy who is always angry but never speaks out when challenged. If you ever want to debate I'll be here, just expect to be called on your insult and run tactics. Have a good night.
Comments (63 - 79) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe lyrics attack the principal of separation of church and state, U.S. District Judge Harvey Schlesinger said.
#23. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#24. To: Rotara (#23)
#25. To: HOUNDDAWG (#22)
#26. To: Brian S (#0)
(Edited)
the principal of separation of church and state
#27. To: HOUNDDAWG (#24)
Yer killun me tonight DAWG !
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#28. To: Deasy (#25)
And let's remember that without white, Christian American evangelicals, Israel would be a smoking ruin by now, or might never have come to exist in the first place.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#29. To: IndieTX (#26)
"In God We Still Trust" is a "song overtly espousing a specific religious viewpoint and attacking of those who do not share in the same belief," Schlesinger wrote in a 24-page decision.
#30. To: Rotara (#28)
Modern Israel is the creation of Godless-One-Worlders.
#31. To: Deasy (#30)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#32. To: Rotara (#31)
#33. To: Deasy (#25)
#34. To: Deasy (#32)
Without ameriKan interference in the two world wars, there would be no Israel.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#35. To: HOUNDDAWG (#33)
You'll not find any Zionist-Noahide Jews in Roy Moore's "commandments-in-the-courtroom-and-courthouse-entrance" camp.
#36. To: Deasy (#35)
I disagree because the 10 commandments themselves
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#37. To: Rotara (#36)
#38. To: Deasy (#29)
(Edited)
think the case is pretty well made here that the school was trying to require kids to listen to and participate in the singing of this song. Non-religious children or children of other faiths would not feel comfortable with this music.
However, neither the judge or the principle he summons are concerned with altruism or children's welfare.
#39. To: Deasy (#37)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#40. To: IndieTX (#38)
#41. To: Deasy (#32)
Without American interference in the two world wars, there would be no Israel. Troops were willing to go because their churches told them it was the right thing to do.
#42. To: HOUNDDAWG (#41)
#43. To: IndieTX, all (#26)
#44. To: HOUNDDAWG (#41)
The fact is Americans wanted no part of the war in Europe which is why baiting Japan (Germany's ally) into Pearl Harbor was necessary.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#45. To: Rhino369 (#43)
#46. To: Rotara (#44)
I was going to see if Big Deasy possessed this knowledge; now he/she has no excuses ! ;-)
#47. To: Deasy, all (#37)
Which of the 10 commandments would you have our government enforce?
#48. To: Rhino369 (#43)
here kitty kitty
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#49. To: Deasy (#46)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#50. To: Rhino369 (#47)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#51. To: Deasy (#35)
You'll not find any Zionist-Noahide Jews in Roy Moore's "commandments-in-the-courtroom-and-courthouse-entrance" camp.
#52. To: HOUNDDAWG (#51)
#53. To: Deasy (#45)
There's room for debate as to how much restraint the first amendment can place on public servants who are expressing their personal opinions. That's not the case when the school assigns children to sing songs.
#54. To: Rhino369 (#53)
I'm guessing most here are ignorant
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#55. To: Rotara (#50)
Has the government ever put even a dent in your sin ?
#56. To: Rotara (#54)
#57. To: Rhino369 (#55)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#58. To: Rhino369 (#56)
(Edited)
Seriously
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#59. To: Rotara (#58)
#60. To: Rhino369 (#59)
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#61. To: Rhino369 (#55)
...you are essentially arguing for a more powerful government. A government that can religiously indoctrinate your children.
#62. To: Rotara (#60)
I take great pleasure in putting punks like you on BOZO and forgetting you exist.
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