See other 9/11 Articles
Title: Was It NanoTech-Thermite Or Phasers That Took Down TRhe WTC?
Source:
OEN
URL Source: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Wa ... John-R-Moffett-090415-784.html
Published: Apr 15, 2009
Author: John R. Moffett
Post Date: 2009-04-22 15:22:05 by war
Keywords: None
Views: 1011
Comments: 56
A recently published article in an online science journal has come to the conclusion that minute flakes of thermite have been identified in particle samples collected at the site of the World Trade Center collapse. The article entitled “Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe” was recently published in “The Open Chemical Physics Journal,” which is part of the Bentham Open Science Publishers group of journals. Researchers from Denmark, the United States and Australia reported that dust samples collected near the collapsed World Trade Center complex contained iron oxide and aluminum flakes whose chemical composition was consistent with unburned thermite. The researchers used a number of techniques to analyze the chips including scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The researchers used supposed samples of the dust that spread over lower Manhattan after the WTC buildings collapsed. Several samples that had been kept by residents for years as “souvenirs” of the disaster were given to the researchers between 2006 and 2008, many years after the disaster. This raises serious “chain of custody” issues for the evidence which would almost certainly preclude the samples from being used in a court of law. But assuming the samples were valid, there are many more serious issues with the work of this research group. First, with regard to the idea that this work was published in a “peer reviewed scientific journal”, it should be noted that the Open Chemical Physics Journal is a pay-to-publish online-only journal that has published a total of 12 articles in its history. They have no track record, and no impact factor in the field. In essence, they are a vanity publisher for scientists who can’t get their work published anywhere else. To call them a peer-reviewed science journal is a real stretch. Before I get into details about why this work is so poorly done, and why the interpretations of the researchers are so suspect, it is important to state that the thermite argument was put forward by these same researchers years ago, and the idea was fully debunked years ago. See for example here: http://www.911myths.com/WTCTHERM.pdf. The researchers found unusual looking “red/grey chips” that could be collected with magnets in all of the WTC dust samples given to them. One particularly unusual finding in this research article was that the percentage of "red/gray chips" of supposedly "unreacted thermite" amounted to approximately 0.1% of the total mass of the collected dust. Assuming that most of the "thermite" would have burned when set off, and only a fraction remained unreacted, then the amount of 0.1% of the total dust is astounding. It translates to tens or even hundreds of thousands of tons (assuming many millions of tons of building materials total, see page 23, para 3 of the article). It is no small coincidence that the major components that the researchers detected in the red and grey chips include iron, aluminum, oxygen, silica, and carbon, since these relate to the primary building materials that the WTC was constructed from. The girders were steel, which rusts to iron oxide, the façade was aluminum, and the floors were concrete. The traces of calcium and sulfur could easily be from wallboard (calcium sulfate), as the authors themselves conclude. The chips that they analyzed were thin flakes, often only microns thick (a micron is 1/1000 of a millimeter). They all had a grey layer, and a red layer. The grey layers were said to be composed of iron oxide based on the X-ray dispersive spectroscopy, which seems somewhat unusual, since most iron oxide is red in color, not grey (one form of naturally occurring hematite is metallic grey). The red layer of the chips was said to be composed of carbon, with added iron, aluminum, silicon and oxygen, and lesser amounts of sodium, calcium, and potassium. This is not the composition of thermite. X-ray dispersive spectroscopy can tell you what elements are in a sample, but not what molecules those elements are incorporated into. Any sample of dust from the WTC collapse would contain similar amounts of these elements because those are the primary elements that made up the steel superstructure, concrete flooring, aluminum facade and other building materials (not to mention the aluminum fuselage of the aircraft). There is no thermite product on earth that is made up of thin sheets of grey layers of iron oxide and red layers of carbon with iron and aluminum oxides. In fact, to burn at high temperatures, thermite must contain large amounts of unoxidized aluminum, rather than aluminum oxide. The researchers did not determine if the aluminum present in their samples was oxidized aluminum, or unoxidized aluminum. The researchers get around the fact that their samples did not look like thermite under the microscope by suggesting that is was a form of "nanotechnology enhanced super-thermite". How could there have been tens of thousands of tons of "nanotechnology enhanced super-thermite" in these buildings? The researchers also showed that the chips could be ignited, and that they burned at a lower temperature than normal thermite. This is of course not surprising since metals such as aluminum do burn if they are complexed with oxidizing agents, and are heated enough. Rust is an oxidizing agent if heated high enough, and is the oxidizing constituent of many types of thermite. It is also important to note that thermite is not explosive, and it is difficult to ignite. It also often burns relatively slowly, and not uniformly, making it a very poor choice for building demolition. In building demolition, you need high explosive cutting charges that usually are carefully placed in holes drilled deep into the structures to be severed. Putting a thin coat of thermite onto a structural element, as suggested by the fact that all of the red/grey chips found in the dust samples were very thin flakes, would not result in the reliable cutting of support structures that would be required to bring the WTC down. It is also interesting that when the red layer of the chips was analyzed by backscattered electron imaging, that the signals for iron and oxygen did not overlap well. If the material was thermite, the iron would be present almost exclusively as iron oxide, and the images for the iron atoms and oxygen atoms should have overlapped very well. The two things that most Americans can agree on about 9/11 is that the official story is not credible, and that the Bush administration was hiding something. But that’s where agreement ends. Some people believe that explosive cutting charges were planted in the buildings, and detonated in sequence to bring the buildings down in their own footprints. Others believe that nanotechnology enhanced thermite was packed into the buildings, and that it was ignited to weaken the structures until they fell. Still others, like Dr. Judy Wood, believe that the US used directed energy weapons to destabilize the molecular structure of the buildings, thus causing them to collapse into atomic dust.
Poster Comment: Assuming that most of the "thermite" would have burned when set off, and only a fraction remained unreacted, then the amount of 0.1% of the total dust is astounding. It translates to tens or even hundreds of thousands of tons (assuming many millions of tons of building materials total, see page 23, para 3 of the article).
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-16) not displayed.
.
.
.
#17. To: PSUSA (#11)
Their whole Moonbat theory makes no sense...
They didn't "report" the event a reporter nisspoke...FDNY had long evacuated the area around 7 because they feared that it was going to collapse and this information was hardly kept private...that 7 was going to collapse had been reprted several times prior to the BBC...
The crux of the Moonbat bisucit... Blame da Joos...
I've seen thermite in action too...there is no way that it would have been the product of choice...
The debunkers do a better job of debunking the official fairy tale than they do on the demolition hypothesis. Here he openly admits that high explosive cutting charges would be required to take out the WTC: Why use thermite? That makes no sense.
#18. To: Amandil (#15)
the BBC reporting it as an event 20 minutes before it happened is kinda hard to explain as well...
#19. To: RickyJ (#16)
Intelligent people aren't fighting over the truth of 9/11, they know the USA/Israel governments, and their spy agencies, planned and carried out operation terror on 9/11.
#20. To: Turtle (#13)
#21. To: war (#0)
In building demolition, you need high explosive cutting charges that usually are carefully placed in holes drilled deep into the structures to be severed. Putting a thin coat of thermite onto a structural element, as suggested by the fact that all of the red/grey chips found in the dust samples were very thin flakes, would not result in the reliable cutting of support structures that would be required to bring the WTC down.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#22. To: war (#17)
No, the thermite theory makes no sense. You cant extend that into "it's all nonsense" by picking and choosing a particular theory and trashing it. It's not the only theory out there. That's like saying the "holographic plane" or "directed energy weapons" idiocy disproves a conspiracy exists. There's a lot of disinfo to sift through and even then we dont get a complete picture, just a more truthful picture than was spoonfed to us by the 9/11 Commission. .
Their whole Moonbat theory makes no sense...
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
#23. To: PSUSA (#22)
The government theory, or what they want people to believe, is the most ridiculous one of all.
No, the thermite theory makes no sense. You cant extend that into "it's all nonsense" by picking and choosing a particular theory and trashing it. It's not the only theory out there.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#24. To: James Deffenbach (#23) (Edited)
Yeah. It just goes to show how dumbed down 'muricans are if they believe it. Even if we dont know it all we recognize bullshit when we smell it. And that report smells like a Texas feedlot on a hot muggy August day. (For those that have never been to The Great State Of Texas, it smells BAD!) .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
#25. To: war (#19)
Blame da Joos... USA/Israel is translated by you as "Jews"? hmm...
The crux of the Moonbat bisucit...
God is always good!
#26. To: war (#19)
Automatic bozo.
Blame da Joos...
TRAITORS TO AMERICA AND BRAINWASHED IDIOTS SUPPORT AND DEFEND ISRAEL. TO HELL WITH ZIONISTS AND THIER AMERICAN FRONTS: AIPAC/PNAC/ADL/NAACP/CFR/FEDERAL RESERVE/SPLC/JINSA/ACLU/FPI/CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS/AEI/FEDERAL MEDIA/HOLLYWOOD, et. al.
#27. To: Critter (#21)
Someone already posted that up was down...but thanks...
#28. To: RickyJ (#25)
I should have said, "Mohichans"?
USA/Israel is translated by you as "Jews"?
#29. To: wbales (#26)
Thanks for watching!!!
#30. To: war (#27) (Edited)
Thank yourself. You post that all day every day.
Someone already posted that up was down...but thanks...
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
#31. To: war (#18)
~ the BBC lady clearly 'reports' that Building 7 had fallen down due to damage from the planes .... now you say they 'mis-spoke' ~ I've never heard that report before of them 'mis-speaking' ... the anchor man clearly says "indeed it has" (fallen) - then the reporter goes into her speel stating with certainty, the building was down ... 20 minutes before it fell, you can see it over her left shoulder, standing tall They didn't "report" the event a reporter nisspoke...
~ tis better to live as your own man, than as a fool in someone elses dream ~
#32. To: PSUSA (#14)
There is really only one source of energy of which I am aware which could cause the observed phenomena i.e., still molten steel after 6 weeks: Radioactivity. That of course begs the question as to where the radioactivity came from? That would be speculation but two possibilities are: 1. An unlicensed nuclear pile in one of the sub-basements used to generate electricity. 2. Mini-nukes used to undercut the building's foundation. Those are speculations and clearly labeled as such. However, either one would account for enough radioactive material let loose to keep metal molten. There are unproved and unsubstantiated accounts of radioactivity in the air at ground zero. A couple of intriguing articles exploring the idea: 9/11 WTC ""Ground Zero"" Energy Surplus, Analysis and Discussion I'd like to know what caused that pool of molten metal that lasted for weeks.
"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#33. To: Original_Intent (#32)
I never considered that one. But I can see it being possible. I wouldn't say it's unlicensed, but could have been kept secret. Imagine the stink generated if people knew there was a nuclear reactor in there, safe as it might have been. It could have been done under so-called national security. Again, more conjecture on my part too. I remember the following story from a while back. I dont know if it made it into the law books or not, but I find it rather suspicious they wanted to "license" owning NBC detectors. Individuals and companies have increasingly expressed interest in buying detectors to warn them in case of a biological, chemical or radiological attack. But now a City Council committee is considering a proposal that would require New Yorkers to get a permit from the Police Department to buy or use such detectors. /snip/ 1. An unlicensed nuclear pile in one of the sub-basements used to generate electricity.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
#34. To: PSUSA, Disgusted, TwentyTwelve, Rotara, litus, christine, Jethro Tull, Critter, all (#33)
I never considered that one. But I can see it being possible. I wouldn't say it's unlicensed, but could have been kept secret. Imagine the stink generated if people knew there was a nuclear reactor in there, safe as it might have been. It could have been done under so-called national security. Again, more conjecture on my part too. I remember the following story from a while back. I dont know if it made it into the law books or not, but I find it rather suspicious they wanted to "license" owning NBC detectors. Individuals and companies have increasingly expressed interest in buying detectors to warn them in case of a biological, chemical or radiological attack. But now a City Council committee is considering a proposal that would require New Yorkers to get a permit from the Police Department to buy or use such detectors. /snip/ This is a possibility that does have "legs" if you'll pardon the pun. I first became aware of the possibility of such devices from the late Sherman Skolnick. Here's an excerpt from one of his articles: So, the idea that there were hidden mini-nuke generators in the sub-basements is technically feasible. Whether that is the case is an unknown. I had heard about the attempt to outlaw detectors in NYC. That was, to say the least, a suspect proposal. The question of course is why would they want to do that i.e., outlaw private ownership and posession of detection equipment. The only reasonable conclusion is that there was something that someone does not want people to detect of nuclear nature. There is no other sane reason.
1. An unlicensed nuclear pile in one of the sub-basements used to generate electricity.
" One of the great secrets of Chicago, if not the nation, is that 8 downtown buildings do not need Edison. In their sub-basement, carefully hidden by secret entrances from office workers, are atomic "pigs".Called that because the compact mechanisms seem to stand on feet like such an animal and operate much like in a nuclear-powered submarine. Using such cheap, efficient power, such buildings leave their lights on all night. Why? Turning the fluorescent bulbs and electronic devices on and off too much make them "pop". ..."
Source: The Electric Scandal
"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#35. To: Original_Intent (#34)
" One of the great secrets of Chicago, if not the nation, is that 8 downtown buildings do not need Edison. In their sub-basement, carefully hidden by secret entrances from office workers, are atomic "pigs".Called that because the compact mechanisms seem to stand on feet like such an animal and operate much like in a nuclear-powered submarine. Using such cheap, efficient power, such buildings leave their lights on all night. Why? Turning the fluorescent bulbs and electronic devices on and off too much make them "pop". ..." A "pig" is a lead containment device for radioactive material. Such material is typically used in hospitals or testing laboratories. It is not capable of generating electricity, it is not a reactor, and doesn't have water flowing through it which could be used to power turbines. Anything I've ever seen from Skolnick has been BS. I'm pretty certain that he's a certified disinformation source, or was. I first became aware of the possibility of such devices from the late Sherman Skolnick. Here's an excerpt from one of his articles:
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#36. To: Original_Intent (#32)
That is a much more likely scenario.
2. Mini-nukes used to undercut the building's foundation.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#37. To: PSUSA (#24)
Yeah, don't you just hate for government shills and sycophants to piss on your leg and tell you it's raining?
Yeah. It just goes to show how dumbed down 'muricans are if they believe it. Even if we dont know it all we recognize bullshit when we smell it. And that report smells like a Texas feedlot on a hot muggy August day. (For those that have never been to The Great State Of Texas, it smells BAD!)
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton
#38. To: FormerLurker (#35)
I would have to say my experience has been contrary. While Sherman relied on a lot of inside contacts, and thus a lot of his material was unsourced and he could have been fed some disinfo, he was generally in the ballpark. I have never relied on his material but where I can get another data point or two from other sources he generally checks out. In particular his data on Court corruption has checked out to the point of putting at least one Judge behind bars. As well a lot of his reporting on financial shenanigans has corroborating reports from other sources - particularly as goes the CBOE and the Commodities Exchange. As for the terminology on atomic pigs - very often English words and terms have more than one valid meaning. So, one definition does not automatically preclude another valid usage. However, while I have technical training it is not in the Nuclear Field so I make no pretensions to expert knowledge.
Anything I've ever seen from Skolnick has been BS. I'm pretty certain that he's a certified disinformation source, or was.
"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#39. To: Original_Intent, PSUSA, Disgusted, TwentyTwelve, Rotara, christine, Jethro Tull, Critter (#34)
Interesting. Do we know what types of cancers and illness-related deaths have happened to which those brave policemen and women, firemen and women, emergency personnel have succumbed?
the idea that there were hidden mini-nuke generators in the sub-basements is technically feasible. Whether that is the case is an unknown.
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#40. To: litus (#39)
Insufficient data. I'd have to do some research. Just anecdotally - I know that a lot have been dying from respiratory problems. That would be congruent with exposure to radiation - particularly in the form of airborne particulates.
"I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology...It's importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda...Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions were generated." Bertrand Russel, Eugenicist and Logician
#41. To: Original_Intent (#40)
Very possible; OTOH....there was so much white crap that you couldn't see in front of your feet. Let's say, for argument's sake, there was no radiation from this other speculation....wouldn't that amount of thick dust being inhaled also cause as much respiratory problems (and death)?
I know that a lot have been dying from respiratory problems. That would be congruent with exposure to radiation
~ Robert the Brus - "The Declaration of Arbroath"
#42. To: Original_Intent (#40)
Not really. Asbestos though could cause that.
Insufficient data. I'd have to do some research. Just anecdotally - I know that a lot have been dying from respiratory problems. That would be congruent with exposure to radiation - particularly in the form of airborne particulates.
God is always good!
#43. To: Original_Intent (#38)
Look it up on the Internet OI. ANYONE familiar with nuclear terminology knows what a pig is, and it's not a reactor, it's simply a container.
As for the terminology on atomic pigs - very often English words and terms have more than one valid meaning. So, one definition does not automatically preclude another valid usage. However, while I have technical training it is not in the Nuclear Field so I make no pretensions to expert knowledge.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#44. To: Original_Intent (#38)
What did it for me was his "coverage" of the Bush/Cheney indictments, which of course never materialized.
While Sherman relied on a lot of inside contacts, and thus a lot of his material was unsourced and he could have been fed some disinfo, he was generally in the ballpark.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#45. To: Turtle (#13)
Larry Silverstein, Silverstein.
#46. To: Amandil (#31)
You've enver heard of a reporter misspeaking or getting a story wrong? IN what bubble do you live?
~ the BBC lady clearly 'reports' that Building 7 had fallen down due to damage from the planes .... now you say they 'mis-spoke' ~ I've never heard that report before of them 'mis-speaking' ...
#47. To: Amandil (#31)
When someone says something happened that didn't how else COULD you characterize it?
~ the BBC lady clearly 'reports' that Building 7 had fallen down due to damage from the planes .... now you say they 'mis-spoke' ~
#48. To: war (#46)
that's a rather specific mis-speak .... getting a name, date or time wrong makes sense, but reporting an event before it happens? You've enver heard of a reporter misspeaking or getting a story wrong? IN what bubble do you live?
as for my bubble? it includes the daily task of verifying facts before reporting them to the public ... imagine me reporting a murder 30 minutes afore it happened, ya think someone would find that a bit odd? could I just tell the cops I goofed, mis-spoke and the actual murder occuring then was a cooincedence?
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#49. To: PSUSA (#11)
Truthers have no understanding of what it takes to drop a building. First, the building is completely gutted, and the beams are cut. Then the charges are placed. Then, when the explosives go off, it's a big RUMBLE, not explosions. And the building always falls from the bottom up, not the top down. And people wonder why I'm not a Truther. Most have no idea how silly they sound.
But thermite is not used in demolition, shaped charges are.
There's no place better thanTurtle Island.
#50. To: Turtle (#49)
But there were explosions heard. By firemen. Pigs too, but I dont believe a fucking thing a pig snorts. There are vids out there that were recorded as they were heard. Firemen are more trustworthy. IMO this thermite nonsense is a red herring. I know you dont agree that the demo was pre-set, so we will continue to agree to disagree on that point. .
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
Pretend inferiority and encourage his arrogance. -Sun Tzu
#51. To: Turtle (#49)
~ demolition experts are on record affirming that in their professional opinion, building 7 was dropped by design ... controlled demo ... and they weren't wearing tin foil hats either.. Truthers have no understanding of what it takes to drop a building.
here's one of them, this report is in Dutch with English sub titles (one of many to be found) ... you can see the man's expression, hear it in his voice, this is a no brainer to him ...
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#52. To: war (#0)
~ the truth will set ya free, but only after it pisses ya off ~
#53. To: Original_Intent (#32)
Interesting.
"This is suspicious at best. Sounds like a bunch of nutty conspiracy theorists, or, as others have pointed out, a government program to find nutty conspiracy theorists who could be dangerous."
#54. To: Clitora, Original_Intent, all, *9-11* (#53)
Writings of a Finnish Military Expert on 9/11 Nuclear destruction of the WTC
"The trouble with people is not that they don't know but that they know so much that ain't so." ~ Josh Billings
#55. To: PSUSA (#1)
I agree. One turd in to pool and all is contaminated. 9-11 seems to be going the way of JFK's insider murder.
Some of it might be intentional disinfo, some of it is just from stupid people, and some of it is honest mistakes
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#56. To: Turtle (#49)
So it takes all of that to take down a building? Dang, I thought i could just set a few kerosene fires and wipe out a whole city. I guess I have to go back to the drawing board.
First, the building is completely gutted, and the beams are cut. Then the charges are placed. Then, when the explosives go off, it's a big RUMBLE, not explosions.
This guy may be prowling 4um: |
Used Tires Amityville, Babylon, Lindenhurst
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest