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Resistance
See other Resistance Articles

Title: Nick Griffin defends BNP leaflet that says black and Asian Britons 'do not exist'
Source: Daily Mail
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art ... black-Asian-Britons-exist.html
Published: Apr 23, 2009
Author: Daily Mail Reporter
Post Date: 2009-04-24 00:32:46 by X-15
Keywords: None
Views: 1324
Comments: 88

British National Party chairman Nick Griffin spoke today of a 'bloodless genocide' as he defended a party leaflet which says that black Britons and Asian Britons 'do not exist'.

The BNP leader was referring to the party's Language And Concepts Discipline Manual, which says the term used should be 'racial foreigners'.

Mr Griffin said to call such people British was a sort of 'bloodless genocide' because it denied indigenous people their own identity.

The leaflet was leaked to an anti-fascist group.

Commenting on the leaflet's content, Mr Griffin told The Report on Radio 4 that although 'in civic terms they are British, British also has a meaning as an ethnic description'.

'These people are 'black residents' of the UK etc, and are no more British than an Englishman living in Hong Kong is Chinese,' he said.

'Collectively, foreign residents of other races should be referred to as 'racial foreigners', a non-pejorative term... The key in such matters is above all to maintain necessary distinctions while avoiding provocation and insult.'

The manual describes the BNP's 'ultimate aim' as the 'lawful, humane and voluntary repatriation of the resident foreigners of the UK'.

'We don't subscribe to the politically correct fiction that just because they happen to be born in Britain, a Pakistani is a Briton. They're not. They remain of Pakistani stock,' he added.

'You can't say that especially large numbers of people can come from the rest of the world and assume an English identity without denying the English their own identity, and I would say that's wrong.

'In a very subtle way, it's a sort of bloodless genocide.' The Archbishop of York has branded Mr Griffin's comments as being 'beyond belief'. Dr John Sentamu, who was born in Uganda and is a vocal supporter of making today - St George's Day - a public holiday to promote English unity, said it was not up to the BNP to define Englishness.

He said: 'You don't have to be a member of the BNP to be clearly English, and it is quite a mistake to suggest that everybody who wants to affirm Englishness affirms that narrow thinking.

'This "bloodless genocide"? I think that is just language which is beyond belief.'

Mr Griffin is standing in the European Parliament elections in June as a candidate for the North West.


Poster Comment:

"A Pakistani that moves to England is no more an Englishman than an Englishman who moves to Hong Kong is Chinese. This is a fact. But, of course, liberals are often shocked, surprised, and angered by the facts." "You can be sure that nearly all 1.3 billion Chinese consider Britons living in Hong Kong to be foreigners."

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#49. To: Deasy (#48)

Yeah, my people left during a potato famine. You know, one of those little things the English did nothing to about to help keep people from starving in? I know Irish history, and that doesn't make me love he English of the 1500s and 1600s all too well, but so it goes.

I also know that if the French had won the French and Indian War against the British this continent would of been far better off. I know about the opium trade, and all the conquest and exploitation of the world by the British, and know that they are lucky to have the good karma of people from other lands and cultures integrating with them and helping to build a better Great Britain.

I just want everyone to realize how important all humanity is and how much we all have in common with one another. From my perspective your view is myopic and fraught with irrational and unfounded fear.

But in any event, thanks for sharing your views on this. Just because we disagree on this, that does not mean I don't feel you do not have a right to your opinion.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-02   20:37:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Ferret Mike (#49)
(Edited)

From my perspective your view is myopic and fraught with irrational and unfounded fear.

What fear have I expressed? My willingness to defend those who would protect their native lands is driven by sympathy, not fear. It is you who has expressed fear of people who value their territorial sovereignty, and their ethnicity. Somehow this sentiment represents a threat to you, although you have not articulated just how these things could bring you harm. Since you use the word "racist" so easily, I can only assume that you have faced discrimination on account of your mixed heritage. I deplore such attitudes, and I want no part of them. On the contrary, love for one's ethnicity should be a positive thing. By the same token, you can't very well condemn those who would preserve their heritage for what they feel convinced is best for themselves. To do otherwise is to reject individual liberty, for in full freedom, it is only the individual who can define who he is and is not. On a related note, if diversity is the goal, then let those of us who are unique remain such as long as our energies permit. We should respect and honor your unique heritage, as well. And I do.

Part of the problem here is a set of false assumptions. A commitment to one's heritage need not be accompanied by hate or distrust for others. It's not racist to honor one's own people. And having an ethnic identity does not preclude respect for those who don't have any, or those of other ethnicities. Griffin's point is that the Briton is the one who should decide who he is, and no one else. South Indians and Africans from the former British colonies can never be what Britons and their modern day descendants are. To suggest such is beyond ridiculous. To say that a resistance to declaring all comers as 'Britons' is hateful is to ignore the disrespect for the native Britons involved, which is itself hateful. You can't have it both ways, as I've said before: you can't say you're not a racist and condemn those who would protect their territory, language, and identity.

It's like saying that a native American was racist for suggesting that whites could never be Indians just because they visit the tribe's reservation. Races exist, even if they are always changing. Cultures exist, even if they are always changing. To define a race or a culture is to make distinctions. Only in a world where words make no sense could you say that anything goes.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-02   21:05:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Deasy (#50)

The Doctrine of Discovery "It's like saying that a native American was racist for suggesting that whites could never be Indians just because they visit the tribe's reservation. Races exist, even if they are always changing. Cultures exist, even if they are always changing. To define a race or a culture is to make distinctions. Only in a world where words make no sense could you say that anything goes."

Amusing, as much of the conquest of the Americas was done using the Doctrine of Discovery as a guide on how to take over.

Native Americans were never allowed to join our cultures until their cultures were gutted or destroyed, and they were always expected to assume a complete adoption of Western Civilization completely.

They on the other hand, were always willing to respect the humanity of others to a greater degree. Groups like the Lumbee and Seminole Indians were made up of white, red and black people who generally lived in remote places where the intolerance and abhorrence of this sort of thing in our culture could not easily reach out and destroy them.

Now, the Irish have generally been the target of English racism on the home front for about 800 years. Racism and lack of cultural respect has been a major part of the mix that has helped grow British imperialism.

None of this hatred and cultural hegemony has created anything positive nor enduring. The empire is a shadow of what it was, and Ireland is mostly free and independent again.

English cultural heritage and everyday life is not endangered by the presence of new people who have emmigrated there. In fact, despite being a nation of islands, new people have enriched and added to English culture and society for as long as people have lived there.

With all due respect, it is the differences in race and not being from a part of Western Civilization that engenders the racism and intoleration that fuels the BNP, and is why the BNP will always be a splinter group of hate mongers who go nowhere politically.

I respect the English for building a society that allows people from other cultures to blend in. It shows that in that respect, the U.U. and our 'melting pot' ways has been a positive influence on our old imperialist masters.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   14:29:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Ferret Mike (#51)

The empire is a shadow of what it was, and Ireland is mostly free and independent again.

I would dispute that. Look at the Irish economy after it rejected the EU's constitution. How long before international economic pressure makes Ireland cave into pressure to join the larger economic empire? The British empire is not gone, far from it. Mankind never gets tired of building larger and larger political structures. Tyranny lurks inside any political machinery. You know that. In the name of fraternity, the EU has become a force for evil.

The so-called doctrine of discovery is no different from living standard improving and employment-driven migration today. I say that people will do whatever it takes to make a better life for themselves and their children, including taking things that aren't theirs. When the rightful owner (or resident) of a place loses the ability to resist, migration becomes invasion and defeat of the former occupants. This is a fact of history, and it will not change in the future. We haven't had any sort of "end of history" yet!

I respect the English for building a society that allows people from other cultures to blend in.
Every ideal has its limits. No one on this thread is saying that migration, intercultural exchanges, and ethnic dialog are bad in and of themselves.

If you respect the rights of native peoples, you will respect their desire to preserve their own territory, period. White native peoples have the right to their own homelands, as much as Native Americans. It's really no different. Of course there will be exceptions, and of course there will be good and bad results. Crime in the west has certainly gotten worse since the days after WWII when it was decided that open immigration should be the norm. Cultural exchanges can become liabilities when implemented on a massive scale, and enforced by government policy.

I've noticed you accusing several people of bigotry and hate. These are name calling tactics that you say are unhelpful in debate, and I'm calling you on it. I don't respect that tactic on your part. It's not useful in the discussion at all. We're talking about issues here, not necessarily the BNP and its other motivations. Issues are the only things worth discussing.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   14:49:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Deasy (#52)

You obviously do not know the Doctrine of Discovery very well, or you would not say that the Doctrine of Discovery no different from living standard improving and employment-driven migration today.

Now, as far as your contention that saying people might have a bigotted or hateful position or opinion, that is a far cry from an attack on the person; it is a labelling of an aspect of an opinion or thinking. Now, if I called someone directly a hateful moron that is a bigoted piece if shit, that would be a personal insult and would not add to any discussion on an issue.

I criticize opinions and thinking, not the people. I am not a perfect human, fortunately, no one is. But I have been a forum poster all over the Internet since the early 1990s, and I know how to do this with no personal attacks as you contend I am doing.

To the contrary, I have been the recipient of many a very personal insult and attack here more aimed at me then my world view or belief system in here, and did nothing to warrant that behavior by those doing this.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   15:25:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Ferret Mike (#53)

You obviously do not know the Doctrine of Discovery very well, or you would not say that the Doctrine of Discovery no different from living standard improving and employment-driven migration today.

I'm just saying that people make up all kinds of excuses and justifications for migrating to other places and taking things by force. Mass migration into traditionally white homelands, abetted by those possessed by false noblesse oblige, is no different. I'd do the same thing if I could. It's just a fact that the entire planet would like to live in the developed countries if they could. You wouldn't limit them, or balk at limiting them at this point. I would, and other native westerners are anything but hateful simply for calling for immigration limits.

What are you afraid of?

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   15:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Deasy (#54)

When I was on Saipan, learned that the Spanish in conquering the Marianas killed all male Chimorros. But the culture, and language is largely intact.

The Japanese invaded and colonized it imperialistically, then we Americans took the place from them.

On Guam, an American possession, we tortured Chimorros to force them to assume the sort of government we like. We also refused to return a single hectare of land to the people who lost it due to siezure by the Japanese.

Sadly, this example is typical of how much of the world has worked in human history.

Thus I consider a moderate amount of emmigration into England to be a tempest in a teapot, and likely to produce far more good then bad. In fact, I faiil to see why you are so afraid, because nothing has happened in terms of population influx that endangers the culture there at all.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   15:39:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Ferret Mike (#55)

You feign an equal amount of concern for whites and non-whites, yet here you are talking about how tragic is is for third world human beings to lose their lives and homelands, but ridiculing whites who want to preserve their territories.

I get it.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   15:42:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Deasy (#56)

Nope, you don't. England is in no danger of losing it's culture. And people are people, no one is better than anyone else merely for a triviality such as race.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   15:46:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Ferret Mike (#57)

Did it ever occur to you that by the time real trouble starts from migration, it's too late to complain? You're saying things are fine. People who live in these places disagree. Maybe you should let them decide for themselves instead of calling them names.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   15:48:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Deasy (#58)

Some disagree, most there are more aligned with my view on this. The BNP is no major force in English politics and will not achieve power.

And I do support their right to express their opinion. I merely chose to take exception to it.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   15:54:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Ferret Mike (#59)

You'll be first to admit that the press is controlled, and therefore we have no idea what the informed opinions of the average British citizen would be if he could know the truth about a given subject. Even if the average British citizen wanted to limit immigration, something tells me you would consider it racist and wish to override their opinions.

I appreciate your continual reminders that you support my right to express myself but it's unhelpful in this context.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   16:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Ferret Mike, Deasy, all (#57)

Immigration 'out of control and harming our culture'

Article from:Yorkshire Post

Article date:January 15, 2007

Call for EU to give us back power over our borders

Lizzie Murphy

THE influx of immigrants into Britain is damaging its culture and corroding community relations, a damning new survey warns.

Exclusively revealed by the Yorkshire Post, the YouGov poll of more than 1,000 people across the region shows that politicians have lost voters' trust on immigration and an overwhelming number believe the recent rush of foreigners is having a detrimental effect on our already overcrowded country.

MPs say the survey, commissioned by the Speakout Campaign, which is calling for a referendum on returning key powers from Brussels to Britain, shows the strength of feeling in the region and should be "an absolute wake-up call" to politicians.

An alarming 72 per cent of the 1,225 people surveyed think Britain is losing its identity, while 72 per cent believe current levels of immigration are making community relations more difficult.

The poll comes a week after the Yorkshire Post revealed more than 35,860 immigrants had been given national insurance numbers to work in the region in 12 months, with the largest number coming from Poland.

The YouGov poll found only 24 per cent agree the recent arrival of immigrants from Eastern Europe has helped Britain's economy to grow.

Although most people (58 per cent) believe many immigrants have contributed positively to the quality of life in Britain, 57 per cent said immigrants keep wages low and make it harder for Britain's unemployed and unskilled to find work.

An overwhelming 89 per cent said Britain should be able to control who comes in from new EU member states, including Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Bulgaria and Hungary.

Seventy two per cent said a referendum should be held to scrap the principle of free movement and restore Britain's control of its own borders.

The Government was criticised for not listening to people on the issue of immigration by 66 per cent of people and just one per cent believe the Government's statistics on immigration from eastern European countries are accurate and tell the full story.

Just 16 per cent believe the Conservatives are listening to people on immigration. Sixty two per cent said they would like the Tories to

take a tougher stance on the issue.

John Yates, director of Speakout, which is backed by Yorkshire business tycoon Paul Sykes, said: "The politicians told us that between 5,000 and 13,000 immigrants would come.

"The Yorkshire Post, to its great credit, revealed last week that 35,000 had signed up to work in this county alone - and that figure

doesn't include the many thousands who have not bothered to register, who are working in the black economy or just claiming benefits."

He added: "John Reid says he is getting tough on immigration, but the truth is there is nothing that the Home Secretary can do to stop people from the former communist bloc countries coming to Britain.

"We have handed over control of our borders to Brussels and are paying the price. It is time the politicians gave the people a referendum on returning these powers from Brussels to Britain."

Philip Davies, Conservative MP for Shipley, said politicians now needed to wake up to the reality of immigration.

"It shows the strength of feeling that is out there," he said. "For lots of people this is of overriding importance because of the impact it has had on social cohesion.

"It has had an impact on public services, on housing, education, and we are having to build more schools as a result. This survey should be an absolute wake-up call to politicians."

Patrick Mercer, Shadow Home Office Minister and MP for Newark and Retford, said: "If you talk to both Britons and immigrants they all express great concerns about the level of immigration and the level of control you have to impose on immigration in the future.

"We must have quotas and on top of that we must have effective border controls."

Disgusted  posted on  2009-05-03   16:09:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Deasy (#60) (Edited)

Actually, if the government there changed the policy I would have no major stake in what they do and would not feel strongly about it. Regardless of which way the change was made.

I am far more interested in immigration policy here in the United States. I was banned from Liberty Post for not being anti-immigrant, but so it goes. That place is hardly a bastion of free speech.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   16:10:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Ferret Mike (#62)

Freedom forum it is.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   16:15:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: All (#61)

February 24, 2008

Islamist terrorism is where people tend to begin...

Islamist terrorism is where people tend to begin. The United Kingdom presents itself as a target, as a fragmenting, post- Christian society, increasingly divided about interpretations of its history, about its national aims, its values and in its political identity. <Full Report>>

October 29, 2007

Britain's a winner in racer relations

Brian Reade reports:

If the estimates are to be believed, our tiny island will soon be packed tighter than the crotch in Terry Wogan's slacks. Seventy-seven million of us by 2051 apparently. Time to buy shares in loft conversion firms. Or at least buy a hard-hat for all the flak this scenario will unleash.

Forget the fact that this is just guesswork based on the freakish immigration-flow from Eastern Europe over the past few years.

That medical advances will make us live much longer and be fertile much later. Or that if people are still leaving their homeland to graft here in 30 years, it's good news because it means our economy will still be expanding, and those new workers will be paying taxes to keep all of us 110-year-olds in pensions. Forget that, because we know how these figures will be used...

As vindication by right-wing doom-mongers for their claims that immigration is an evil which has dragged us to our knees. That we have enough foreign parasites swamping our green and pleasant land, and leeching off our welfare state. And more of them, on the scale predicted will sink the British nation into oblivion.

They're right in one respect. Immigration has to be controlled. Too many communities feel their traditional culture is being stolen by too many new arrivals.

Chief Rabbi: Multiculturalism has run its course

''Multiculturalism has run its course and it is time to move on." So begins Jonathan Sacks' new book on the future of British society and the dangers facing liberal democracy.

Arguing that global communications have fragmented national cultures and that multiculturalism, intended to reduce social frictions, is today reinforcing them, Sacks argues for a new approach to national identity. We cannot stay with current policies that are producing a society of conflicting ghettoes and non-intersecting lives, turning religious bodies into pressure groups rather than society- building forces.

Sacks maintains that we will have to construct a national narrative as a basis for identity, reinvigorate the concept of the common good, and identify shared interests among currently conflicting groups. It must restore a culture of civility, protect "neutral spaces" from politicization, and find ways of moving beyond an adversarial culture in which the loudest voice wins. He proposes a responsibility-based, rather than rights- based, model of citizenship that connects the ideas of giving and belonging.

Offering a new paradigm to replace previous models of assimilation on the one hand, multiculturalism on the other, he argues that we should see society as "the home we build together," bringing the distinctive gifts of different goups to society as a whole, and not only to our particular subsection of it.

Sacks warns of the hazards free and open societies face in the twenty-first century, and offers an unusual religious defense of liberal democracy and the nation state. A counterweight to his earlier The Dignity of Difference, Sacks makes the case for "integrated diversity" within a framework of shared political views.''

mesopotami west on LIBERAL MAN:

One should always know one's opponent and so, in that vein, I give you today, The Liberal Man, a brief description of the views, prejudices and fantasies of Canadian liberals of all stripes, shapes and sexes.

Nationalism
The Liberal Man is a post- nationalist. He doesn't really believe in the nation state, preferring the United Nations and the EU as more congenial conglomerations. If you ask him why; he will say he finds nationalism somewhat distasteful, too boastful, even fascist in origin. The whole idea that one country is better or more deserving of praise than another makes him uneasy.

Multiculturalism
The Liberal Man is proudly multicultural. He believes that all cultures are equal -- he is a cultural relativist -- and that none has any right to special status over another. Because of this, he finds excuses for such 'cultural' abnormalities as genital mutilation, honour killings, arranged marriages, stonings and second class status for women. 'Who are we to judge,' says The Liberal Man.

Western Guilt
The Liberal Man has intense feelings of guilt. Despite the fact the West ended slavery on the high seas (Britain) and in North America (the Union) and in practice (The Civil Rights Act), he still feels the burden of all those years when Western nations peopled their sugar islands with blacks brought over in chains. As a result, he is inclined to take the side of every tin pot dictator in black Africa and elsewhere over that of any Western nation. The many virtues of British Colonialism are ignored; the many vices of current African dictators likewise. When it comes to race, the West can do no right, the rest, no wrong.

Military Force
The Liberal Man is horrified at military force and does everything to avoid paying for it, using it or thinking about it. This is one reason why The Liberal Man is anti-American; Americans are prepared to use force to overthrow dictators, and force is bad, bad, bad. When Canada uses force The Liberal Man has regrets, second-thoughts, night sweats.

Weapons
Because he is against force, The Liberal Man is also against guns. Guns, he says, cause crime! And they're noisy. Ban them. Secretly, the Liberal Man thinks guns are symbolic of male aggression. He thinks banning guns will end male aggression. This makes sense since it's the guns that cause the aggression, not the males.

Religion
The Liberal Man is post-religious. It's not that he's an atheist, it's that he's too busy buying MP3 players, SUV's and flat-panel TV's to consider the possibility of another life, or an after life, or indeed death. The Liberal Man has never seen a dead person in the flesh and has no inkling of his own mortality. Because he is not religious, he has no concept of good and evil.

Disgusted  posted on  2009-05-03   16:16:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Disgusted, Jethro Tull (#64)

Nationalism The Liberal Man is a post- nationalist. He doesn't really believe in the nation state, preferring the United Nations and the EU as more congenial conglomerations. If you ask him why; he will say he finds nationalism somewhat distasteful, too boastful, even fascist in origin. The whole idea that one country is better or more deserving of praise than another makes him uneasy.

The (phony) conservative man is for spreading his nationality world-wide. He's for a one-world, global economic system where he can buy anything, from anywhere, made by anybody, on anyone's terms, without regard to environmental or labor issues. If you ask him, he finds country-first nationalism very distasteful. He'll say that his country's obligation is to the world and to the future of making the world just like his country. He accuses country-firstism of being fascistic in origin. The whole idea that others shouldn't adopt his country's way of existence makes him uneasy. He wants to send missionaries out to other countries to convert them to his religion so that things may be easier for him to establish positive relations with the foriegners. If you're not willing to pay taxes and send your children off to fight for this conservative's viewpoints, he'll accuse you of treason or worse.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   16:21:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Deasy (#65)

I was at the anti World Trade riots in Seattle some years ago. I oppose the current model of global trade. One reason is that it is so harmful and destructive to local cultures worldwide.

Immigration is changing rural England life

Above is an interesting article I just Googled. I am fasinated to see that much of the race issue has been said to have been neutralized by a large Eastern European influx after the expantion of the EU.

I am amused you fine me so two dimentional, I am not. I learn in here as well as share my views. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   16:29:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Ferret Mike (#66)

I am amused you fine me so two dimentional, I am not.

I'm sure that you have complex views on a variety of topics, but something about race and ethnicity has you stuck in a dimension of space and time where whites can't have their own claims to ethnicity and territory. Based on what you've said about your mixed heritage I can only assume that it's related to your singular opinions in that regard. All I can say is that race does matter. When people start trivializing it, I see something wrong in that view. We can have the beautiful world you envision and race consciousness. They're not mutually exclusive by any means.

The biggest winners, apart from the migrants themselves, are the farmers and hoteliers who employ them at minimum-wage rates. The losers are the British craftsmen and cleaners, farm labourers and semi-skilled workers whose wages have been forced down as they compete in the labour market.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/...g-rural-England-life.html Could have been written by a Republican American.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   17:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Disgusted (#61)

sounds like this country. you have the majority of the people who want immigration and border control for their protection and economic survival and a wholely unresponsive government.

The smooth criminal transition from Bush/Cheney to Obama

christine  posted on  2009-05-03   18:11:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Deasy (#67)

==

Playing For Change: Song Around the World "One Love"


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   21:50:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Ferret Mike (#69)

In my mind, one love does not mean one people. That would be the biggest tragedy in the history of the human race. Mutual respect requires us to honor our differences and respect territorial boundaries. There are exceptions to those rules, but you can't have it both ways. You can't say that you're for one love when you're talking about eliminating differences through mass migration. I know you don't agree, but that's the historical view -- that mass migration or invasions lead to elimination or wholesale transformation of cultures. Don't talk to me about "one love" until you can show that respect.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   21:54:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Deasy (#70)

Despite our differences, we are bound by a common thread of humanity. Differences are minor things compared to the truth all our blood runs red, we are born, we live and then we die, we all have fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters, and we all have an obligation to promote peace and understanding first and foremost. War, hatred and intolerance is never a good thing, and differences should never be used to justify such evils, which is the only way such things bother me.

I would rather be inspired by how we all resonate with commonalities then to obsess on what separates us. That is a central notion I live by, and that will never change.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   22:15:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Ferret Mike (#71)

It takes force to require people to surrender their territory, their language, and their democratic influence over their culture. You must use government. You must use shock troops. You must use abridgments of their civil rights to free speech.

If you want to emphasize what is common between peoples, do not start by asking them to surrender control over their culture.

In your mind, one race is all we have. That's not the case for everyone. You'll require incalculable amounts of force to achieve your dream.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   22:21:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Deasy (#72)

Absolutely not so. Force is not required to respect the rights and humanity of others.

Force is the worst way to effect change that is deep and enduring in any event. Surrender your fear and dread, because it is your worst enemy, not people.

In my mind, racial difference is a minor thing and one's authenticity should be valued, however it is the commonalities of our species worldwide that should be what we most care about on this fragile blue bubble of a planet.

I know all to well how insular and NIMBY minded many Americans are because we are so isolated geographically. People should get out and see the world, and learn about and share differences as well as to discover similarities.

Not enough here do so, which is a component of the problem that engenders the feelings of fear and intolerance that poison so many in ways that help no one, especially the sufferers of these afflictions.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   22:38:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Ferret Mike (#73)

Force is not required to respect the rights and humanity of others.

You can't respect the rights of others while trampling their territorial and cultural boundaries. You're the one living in apparent fear. Could you please articulate what makes you afraid of inborn human nature?

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   22:46:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Deasy (#74)

Racism is a groundless fear, one I don't suffer from. The only fear I see here is that which you project.

And regardles of your hand wringing, England can take care of England, it always has. And I would note that the English can also be as narrow minded, pushy and as greedy as people such as the mainland Chinese or Robert Mugabe and company in Zimbabwe.

They should not just worry about the state of their culture, but the historic content of their collective hearts and souls as well.

I care far more for the memories of men like Steve Biko or Bobby Sands then I do for say a Winston Churchill. And in part, that is the Irish in me talking. ;-)


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-03   23:03:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Ferret Mike (#75)

Racism is a groundless fear, one I don't suffer from. The only fear I see here is that which you project.

We're both accusing the other of having fear. You fear "racism," and you're accusing me of it. You apparently define racism as an "accute awareness of, and deep value for one's own race or ethnicity." Is that true?

Here's another problem with your argument: you're claiming to have the superior interpretation of what other individuals believe and feel. Do you grasp that? Do you take ownership of that conviction? What you're doing is claiming that you can impose your beliefs on others because you are superior in a moral and ethical sense. This is actually quite disturbing.

Let me be clear. You may not tell me what is morally superior for myself. In the same way, you may not tell another person how to think about his own ethnicity. You may wish that he would think a different way, but you must accept that he has his own opinions and sensibilities. To do otherwise is the ultimate usurpation of human rights.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-03   23:16:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Deasy, Ferret Mike (#76)

Every once in a blue moon, one comes across a thread that is an joy to read. This is one of them.. you both have articulated your beliefs in such a manner, that I say Thank You. I will sit back and enjoy the ride.. carry on.. :-)

Truth is Treason in the Empire of Lies

"Don't Tread on Me", originally a war cry of Benjamin Franklin during America's fight for independence, has come to symbolize the American spirit. It first appeared on the Gadsen flag (named for and by General Christopher Gadsen) which featured the slogan below a coiled rattlesnake that was ready to attack. The snake (along with the slogan) came to symbolize America as an animal that would never strike first, but when provoked, would never give in. Today, it also symbolizes and celebrates personal independence and perseverance.

Refinersfire  posted on  2009-05-03   23:43:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Deasy (#76)

I accused you of nothing of the sort. Don't get so defensive, that's lame. I don't even know your gender, so how could I know you well enough to know if you are a racist.

Conversely, you try to peg me way too quickly and with no mercy. Back off and stop this who will post last pissing contest please. This makes me believe you are a guy, but that in and of itself is no proof of anything either.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-04   9:52:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Ferret Mike (#71)

I would rather be inspired by how we all resonate with commonalities then to obsess on what separates us.

So what say you to the existence of the NAACP/LULAC/National Council of La Raza/et al?? If a white Briton moves to Hong Kong, does he become Chinese the second his foot hits the tarmac at HKG airport???

_________________________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?”

“The best and first guarantor of our neutrality and our independent existence is the defensive will of the people…and the proverbial marksmanship of the Swiss shooter. Each soldier a good marksman! Each shot a hit!”
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941

X-15  posted on  2009-05-04   15:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: X-15 (#79)

Their existence? What of it? They have the right to exist and to put into practice their political efficacy. As for the immigration policies of China, I doubt they allow many to emigrate there.

In any event, China loves their citizens to pieces. And they show that with concentration camps that specialize in the 'harvest' of human organs from live people.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-04   15:51:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Ferret Mike, X-15, Deasy (#80)

They [NAACP/LULAC/National Council of La Raza/et al] have the right to exist and to put into practice their political efficacy.

Yet BNP doesn't and is racist for existing?

It's quite obvious that Mikey's the racist here, not us.

Eff the Bankers

bluegrass  posted on  2009-05-04   19:32:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: bluegrass (#81)

They [NAACP/LULAC/National Council of La Raza/et al] have the right to exist and to put into practice their political efficacy.

No, they don't, and anyone who supports them in any way is a traitor.

Dancing Turtles and Bouncing Boobs...that's Turtle Island.

Turtle  posted on  2009-05-04   20:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Ferret Mike (#78)

Conversely, you try to peg me way too quickly and with no mercy.

I'm just pointing out that in a subjective world, you must concede the other's subjective prerogative.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-04   20:51:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Ferret Mike (#78)

It seems you've lost interest in the dialog now that I've pressed you on some more substantive issues.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-06   20:31:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Deasy (#84)

Actually, I am very busy and lately have been using my laptop where I normally stayed at one of my servers in the office to post in here with. I will answer when I can as best I can.

I am working on local political issues and I'm afraid they are on my front burner, not posting on forums. For example, I do anti-recruiting at lane Community College and the University of Oregon giving those thinking of enlisting or becoming an officer more truthful answers about the military then recruiters do.

I do this through an organization known as Oregon Peaceworks.


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-06   20:59:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: Ferret Mike (#85)

Should I assume that you're too busy to have a serious discussion about race?

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-06   21:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Deasy (#86)

Dude, I am very willing to post to you. I am here right now posting, what the heck more can I say?


Ferret Mike  posted on  2009-05-06   21:20:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Ferret Mike (#87)

Carry on. I'm reading your comments. I was hoping you'd respond to these questions.

Deasy  posted on  2009-05-06   21:21:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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