I think crypto is a trap.

As do I, at this point. Once the banksters got involved, I'm out for now.

I think crypto is a trap.

More, or less of a trap than bank accounts & credit cards?

More, or less of a trap than bank accounts & credit cards?

Equal ! Once the bankers have their "nose" in the tent ... it's O.V.E.R.

Same trap, I think.

Crypto requires no middle man to do transactions, as is the case with the vast majority of dollar transactions (all non-cash transactions). With crypto, banks become obsolete. That is a massive advantage. There is no central bank that can adjust the value of the currency or print more into the economy, and if the gov had to budget with free market, decentralized crypto, it couldn't run budget deficits. Trade deficits with crypto couldn't be done either as the deficit country couldn't continuously print fiat to send to other countries hungry for the world reserve currency.

Crypto can end a lot of the world's problems by putting an end to the privileged handling of centralized fiat, which I see as the single biggest reason for the enormous economic divide we see in this country.

No, free-market, decentralized crypto is not a trap. Centralized crypto is a horrible thing, however, far more than fiat. China is seeing to that with their version. They can not only decide remotely who can spend their digital yuan and who can be paid in it, but they can put expiration timestamps on it, making it impossible to save anything at all.

Crypto is the future. It's coming, and we can either have the free market, decentralized crypto, or accept the crypto issued by central banks of whatever country.

But more than that, it's an opportunity right now as so many, such as yourselves, are reluctant to get into it. The reasons are often understandable when it comes to security and confidence, but I must say not understandable when it comes to a fear that all crypto is a path to centralized control and economic perdition.

Free market crypto has the power to set the world free from the power of central banks that have done an incredible job of instituting economic enslavement. The success of their activity is underestimated even by those who acknowledge their power (us).

I hope all that's true, Ping -- but crypto works only as long as it's high, right? Can any of 'em be counted on for stability -- at least an even-steven return on investment?

Cryptos market cap, in dollars, was at its high a couple weeks back only about $2 trillion, which is a drop in the bucket compared to all net worth globally, so it can grow enormously.

Not sure what you mean by "crypto works". It has no stability in part because it's not tied to (aka backed by) any commodity that can ascribe a value to it. Many complain crypto is not backed by anything, which would give a fixed value to it, but there are 2 reasons why backing is important for a currency. Ascribing a fixed vaule is one reason, but the other is to ensure there is a limited supply of that currency and free market cyrpto like bitcoin already has limited supply built in, so backing is not required for that reason.

Bitcoin was designed in the aftermath of the 2008 finance crises as a direct response to the abuses by the gov in dealing with that crisis, which were the massive TARP bailouts for the very institutions that carried out home mortgage fraud. So to me, rejecting crypto is simply walking away from a solution to a massive problem.

But your question comes with an obvious premise that the dollar is a stable unit of currency and always will be. If that is the case, then one has no use for crypto. Most people, even people in the crypto world, do that and I no longer do, so much, except when considering converting crypto to cash for short term spending.

Bitcoin dollar pricing has followed a series of new highs and pullbacks and the most recent high of almost $65K is right in line with historic moves. If that follows through, BTC can be expected to retrace back down to about $23k after which the next high should be about 2.5x to 4x higher than that $65k high, or about 160k to 260k.

Though there is the factor of institutional investment which we have now and didn't have before, and the question now of dollar stability is very high with inflation/hyper inflation concerns, both of which bode well for cyrpto, and the latter concern makes crypto not just a place & way to increase wealth but to preserve it.

All aspects of life have been or will be transformed by the digital age, and as I see it, finance will not be an exception as is implied by crypto naysayers. Cyrpto is here to stay for the long haul, and I believe it will only grow over the long term. Gold and silver are great investments, but will never be used as a currency again, as it was in the days of old, so whenever the dollar does collapse, and the sooner the better for all that it does, it won't be silver or gold replacing it. It will either be some kind of decentralized crypto or a brand new fiat issued by some king somewhere, even if that new fiat is a centralized crypto, which will be far worse for economic freedom that the paper versions we've had up to this point.

So those are the choices going forward.

You're the only knowledgeable resource I know of.

your question comes with an obvious premise that the dollar is a stable unit of currency

No, I'm thinking of crypto on its own terms. I love the idea of it and its short history is extremely impressive, but what happens to BTC for instance if the feds just ban it during some even more tyrannical period in the near future? Any idea how it's faring in China?

What's the most private way to buy a good crypto these days?

Any idea how it's faring in China?

China (and Brazil) put controls on Bitcoin and it took an overnight drop of 20%. ;)

No, I'm thinking of crypto on its own terms.

Well, I would double down say you actually are thinking of crypto in terms of dollars, but doing so without realizing it, because you asked this:

but crypto works only as long as it's high, right? Can any of 'em be counted on for stability -- at least an even-steven return on investment?

Only if it's "high", you asked? If you don't mean "high" in terms of dollars, then in comparison to what else would it be "high"?

You mentioned stability. Stability in terms of, if not dollars, what?

Finally you mention a "return on investment". Is there a return in something other than dollars you were referring to?

I'm laughing a little typing this because I think it's something about everyone does. I'm in fact about the only exception I know of at this point. We all have grown up and lived our full adult lives with the ideas that the dollar is a reasonably fixed form of value, excepting 1- 1.5% inflation each year, and if something goes up in price by a fair amount more than that, it's never because the dollar is devaluing, it's instead because something happened to that thing that is now more expensive.

... being exchanged over the internet - I don’t trust the encryption. I think it could all be confiscated by the five Is and we’re done.

If you don't trust encryption then crypto isn't for you, as without encryption, crypto doesn't exist, as per the name. In theory it is possible for some mathematical breakthrough to be made that could render at least some forms of crypto currency completely accessible. We'd know pretty fast if that happens as that crypto would go to zero.

But it's pretty safe to say that if the gov were to discover such a mathematical counter-crypto solution, assuming such a solution even exists which it may not, they would never blow the secret by messing with crypto currency. They'd instead use it quite covertly on a case by case basis to accomplish their nefarious special interests, provided it could be used without their opposition realizing they have cracked the code. Think of the Turing computer built by Alan Turing during WW2 which cracked the German code. They were careful not to blow the secret of the cracking on Germany not just until war's end, but for many years after.

No, the gov, if it could crack the encryption cryptocurrency is based on, won't waste the secret on wrecking crypto currency.

For my part, I believe the encryption is sound.

You will own nothing and be happy.

My Mom told me that during the Great Depression in the 30s, at Christmas all the kids got coal in their stockings since the family had no money to buy gifts.

And their father cobbled shoe repairs in the basement to save money on the professional cobbler. ;)

Crypto

I know a young lady who has made a profit from dealings with Coinbase. They handle several types of cryptocurrencies. ;)

I know a young lady who has made a profit from dealings with Coinbase. They handle several types of cryptocurrencies. ;)

They should certainly be handling LOTS of crypto currencies. There are really too many in the market place, but hey, it's a free market thing so... lots of competition.

it's a free market thing so... lots of competition.

I just changed the password for Coinbase. Then it was changed again. So I was forced to lock the account. Everything is screwed up. Not sure yet how this is going to be resolved.

BTW, I was finally able to post that one article about how electronic voting systems are hooked up to the internet.

David Orr was Cook County Clerk for last 15 years. He switched all voting machines in the County over to ES&S machines. ES&S and Dominion are two of the biggest players. ;)

Only if it's "high", you asked? If you don't mean "high" in terms of dollars, then in comparison to what else would it be "high"?

You mentioned stability. Stability in terms of, if not dollars, what?

Well, goods and services -- the same stuff dollar value is measured by. Gold and silver ounces if nothing else.

But I guess bitcoin also, in effect, could be considered based on the difficulty of mining new bitcoin. Bitcoin must be valuable enough to cover the cost of the electricity required to mine it. Obviously one cannot convert a bitcoin back to electricity as a silver coin could be melted down to serve some industrial use, but the cost of bitcoin production is still there.

The dollar is not the only financial measure out there

en.wikipedia.org/wik i/Big_Mac_Index