4um: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11

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Title: Pilots Analyze the Government Provided Radar Data of the Planes of 9-11
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Published: Sep 24, 2012
Author: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-inter
Post Date: 2012-09-24 19:34:06 by tom007
Keywords: None
Views: 2732
Comments: 145

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-intercepted/
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#1. To: tom007 (#0)
topdocumentaryfilms.com/911-intercepted/
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2012-09-24 19:48:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#2. To: tom007 (#0)
Alleged aircraft hit the buildings????
One can see where this is going. Another waste of time.
Another review by "EXPERTS" that cannot..."AUTHENTICATE"... the government provided material, well then the inference is it may all be LIES, all BOGUS, BECAUSE WE CANNOT PROVE ANYTHING, WHY WASTE YOUR TIME.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-24 20:38:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#3. To: Cynicom, tom007 (#2)
Alleged aircraft hit the buildings????

Are you trying to say that it is 100% certain that the aircraft which struck the towers are the ones reported as being hijacked? If you bothered watching the video, you'd more than likely understand why and how that is highly unlikely.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-24 21:16:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#4. To: tom007, *9-11* (#0)

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-24 21:17:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#5. To: FormerLurker (#3)
Are you trying to say that it is 100% certain that the aircraft which struck the towers are the ones reported as being hijacked? If you bothered watching the video, you'd more than likely understand why and how that is highly unlikely.

I dont think so.
I'll stand with my flying telephone poles. Am organizing a panel of "pole" experts as we speak, to address the "alleged" 9/11 event that never happened.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-24 21:59:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#6. To: Cynicom (#5)
Cyni, 9/11 happened alright, just not the way the talking heads and the politicians claim it did.
What do you make of that van on the George Washington Bridge pulled over on 9/11 after the attacks, you know, the one that was filled with tons of explosives and driven by Israelis?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-24 22:31:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#7. To: FormerLurker (#6)
What do you make of that van on the George Washington Bridge pulled over on 9/11 after the attacks, you know, the one that was filled with tons of explosives and driven by Israelis?

Good starting point.
Ever notice however there are no panels of experts to prove or disprove they ever existed?

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-24 22:46:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#8. To: Cynicom (#7)
Ever notice however there are no panels of experts to prove or disprove they ever existed?

News reports from that day, along with FBI documents, indicate they did in fact exist.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-24 23:10:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#9. To: FormerLurker (#3)
Are you trying to say that it is 100% certain that the aircraft which struck the towers are the ones reported as being hijacked? If you bothered watching the video, you'd more than likely understand why and how that is highly unlikely.

Is there ever a time you are not setting someone up?
Are you 100% sure your not locked into a misguided thought loop of continual argument and repetition???
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-24 23:38:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#10. To: FormerLurker (#8)
News reports from that day, along with FBI documents, indicate they did in fact exist.

However, there has never been any independent panel of "experts" that can "prove" the government is lying.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 5:21:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#11. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#4)
At the 10:14 mark: "At approximately 08:35, a call to scramble fighters is made by Boston Center directly to Cape Approach, trying to get in touch with Otis Air Force Base."
[sic]
Cape: "Cape TRACON."
BOS Center: "Yeah, hi, uh...Are you uh able to...are you able to talk to Otis on this line?"
Cape: "Um, I'm not sure..."

What? Cape TRACON is Otis. Even stranger is that an Air Traffic Controller at Boston Center tried to scramble fighter jets. That amounts to a huge breach of national security.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 5:24:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#12. To: Cynicom (#10)
However, there has never been any independent panel of "experts" that can "prove" the government is lying.

Ever hear of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, or the producers of this video Pilots for 9/11 Truth?
The government story of the WTC collapse is physically impossible. The Israelis who were arrested on 9/11 with tons of explosives were released with charges.
How much more factual evidence is necessary? Would it take Sean Hannity to report that the government lied on 9/11 to make it so?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 9:25:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#13. To: titorite (#9)
It is becoming more obvious each passing day that you are not interested in 9/11 truth, you are here to attack those who try to speak about it.
Screw off shill.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 9:27:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#14. To: FormerLurker (#12)
How much more factual evidence is necessary? Would it take Sean Hannity to report that the government lied on 9/11 to make it so?

This is what I spoke of...
"What do you make of that van on the George Washington Bridge pulled over on 9/11 after the attacks, you know, the one that was filled with tons of explosives and driven by Israelis?"
I would like to see a panel of experts or anyone to revisit that.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 9:36:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#15. To: FormerLurker (#12)
Would it take Sean Hannity to report that the government lied on 9/11 to make it so?

Snarky, but funny.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 9:48:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#16. To: tom007 (#15)
In my opinion, Fox is the paid opposition, so their take, slant or spin is always suspect.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 10:15:06 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#17. To: Cynicom (#14)
I would like to see a panel of experts or anyone to revisit that.

All matters pertaining to Israeli involvement in 9/11 is classified.
Here's an interesting video you might want to watch.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 10:43:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#18. To: FormerLurker (#4)
Thanks FL.There's a lot of material there. I thought the salient fact was that one of the jets performance perimeters were entirely consistent with a 757 until shortly after it passed over a military base, then it's performance became impossible for a 757 to perform. The "Magic Airplane" of our time, it would seem.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 10:49:32 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#19. To: Cynicom (#14)
And here's a few more...

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 10:49:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#20. To: FormerLurker (#17)
All matters pertaining to Israeli involvement in 9/11 is classified.

The dog that didn't bark.
Tells ya all ya need to know.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 10:51:16 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#21. To: tom007 (#20)
I wonder how many other people would have gotten away with being caught with tons of explosives in a van on the George Washington Bridge on 9/11, or would have gotten away with blowing up a truck on King St. NYC that morning...
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 10:54:49 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#22. To: Cynicom (#14)
I would like to see a panel of experts or anyone to revisit that.

Who needs a panel of experts when you got the cops on their radio?

Now you can empanel a jury of pointy heads, Cyni. ; ]
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-09-25 10:57:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#23. To: FormerLurker (#17)
Remember it all far too well.
Makes me sick.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 10:57:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#24. To: Cynicom (#10)
it's been proven to me! so has the fact that the government lied about Kennedy's assassination in the Warren Commission Report.

christine posted on 2012-09-25 10:58:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#25. To: tom007 (#18)
I thought the salient fact was that one of the jets performance perimeters were entirely consistent with a 757 until shortly after it passed over a military base

Might it be Stewart AFB?
9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base
PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's, not 757's. It was Flight 77 which allegedly struck the Pentagon which was a 757.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 11:13:15 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#26. To: Cynicom (#23)
Makes me sick.

Here's some further info.
The "Dancing Israelis" FBI Report - Debunked
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 11:14:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#27. To: christine (#24)
it's been proven to me!

There was tad of tongue in cheek there.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 11:56:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#28. To: randge (#22)
Having been involved with lesser events with the government and military, over many years, I can safely say that, things get screwed up, people misspeak, misunderstand, and it takes great effort to untangle things.
Recall that no one of responsibility ever stood up and called a halt to the madness. It was a lowly FAA person that finally took the bull by the horns and ordered everyone down until it could be sorted out.
Cheney and Bush did nothing,none of their boot lickers did anything, the world was gone mad.
A peon stepped up, called a halt to everything. The VP was as useless as tits on a rain barrel and Bush was hiding in Louisiana.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 12:05:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#29. To: Cynicom, tom007, christine, All (#23)
And here's a full blown expose. The video is rather long, but well worth the time.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 12:13:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#30. To: Cynicom (#27)
ahhhh ;)

christine posted on 2012-09-25 12:45:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#31. To: Cynicom (#28)
The VP was as useless as tits on a rain barrel and Bush was hiding in Louisiana.

Bush was hiding in Louisiana. That's for sure.
But the VP was useful to someone that morning.
Do you remember "Do the orders still stand Mr. Vice President?"
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-09-25 12:51:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#32. To: FormerLurker (#4)
What an excellent report on this MIHOP event.
Thanks much.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2012-09-25 13:01:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#33. To: FormerLurker (#21)
I wonder how many other people would have gotten away with being caught with tons of explosives in a van on the George Washington Bridge on 9/11, or would have gotten away with blowing up a truck on King St. NYC that morning...

You bet = if they were a gang of Navajos they all would have been executed NOT released before an investigation into the event started.
What a farce 9-11 has become.
The government has abdicated it's contract with the governed.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 13:22:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#34. To: tom007 (#33)
More like they blew up (just like the towers) the imaginary contract with us.
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2012-09-25 13:30:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#35. To: randge (#31)
Do you remember "Do the orders still stand Mr. Vice President?"

Yes I do.
After I retired, a friend of mine was very near the top of FAA in Washington. From him working in the FAA control center as boss, I had a good background as to what could or could not have happened.
He was as anti government as me and never entertained yes men, boot lickers or government toadies.
So when some suggest that FAA people were in on it, I would gamble my life they were not. It would probably astound some as to how many employees despise the government. There were but two employers of such professionals, military and government. Not much choice.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 13:32:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#36. To: christine (#30)
See #35.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 13:34:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#37. To: Cynicom (#10) (Edited)
However, there has never been any independent panel of "experts" that can "prove" the government is lying.

The 9/11 Commission Rejects own Report as Based on Government Lies
In John Farmer’s book: “The Ground Truth: The Story Behind America’s Defense on 9/11;, the author builds the inescapably convincing case that the official version... is almost entirely untrue...

The 9/11 Commission now tells us that the official version of 9/11 was based on false testimony and documents and is almost entirely untrue. The details of this massive cover-up are carefully outlined in a book by John Farmer, who was the Senior Counsel for the 9/11 Commission.

Farmer, Dean of Rutger Universities' School of Law and former Attorney General of New Jersey, was responsible for drafting the original flawed 9/11 report.

Does Farmer have cooperation and agreement from other members of the Commission? Yes. Did they say Bush ordered 9/11? No. Do they say that the 9/11 Commission was lied to by the FBI, CIA, Whitehouse and NORAD? Yes. Is there full documentary proof of this? Yes.

Farmer states...“at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened... I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”
The 9/11 Commission head, Thomas Kean, was the Republican governor of New Jersey. He had the following to say... “We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth.
9/11 Commission member and former US Senator, Bob Kerrey, says, "No one is more qualified to write the definitive book about the tragedy of 9/11 than John Farmer. Fortunately, he has done so. Even more fortunately the language is clear, alive and instructive for anyone who wants to make certain this never happens again."
9/11 Commissioners say "Official Story" a Lie
9/11 COMMISSIONERS
The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission (Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton) said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”.
The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission also said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements, yet didn’t bother to tell the American people (free subscription required).
Indeed, the co-chairs of the Commission now admit that the Commission largely operated based upon political considerations.
9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only “the first draft” of history.
9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .”
9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”
Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”.
9/11 Commissioner John Lehman said that “We purposely put together a staff that had - in a way - conflicts of interest“.
The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry, said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.”
However, there has never been any independent panel of "experts" that can "prove" the government is lying.
9/11 Commission Report: The Most Ridiculous Conspiracy Theory Of All Time
******
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
Bill D Berger posted on 2012-09-25 13:56:22 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#38. To: tom007, *9-11* (#18)
Concerning Stewart AFB and Flights 11 and 175 passing over it simultaneously...

Well here's something interesting about the "push for privatization of the WTC and Stewart AFB"...
From Mossad - The Israeli Connection To 911

The IDC, a private, non-profit university, is closely tied to the Mossad. The IDC has a "research institute" headed by Shabtai Shavit, former head of the Mossad from 1989 to 1996, called the International Policy Institute for Counter- Terrorism.
The IDC also has a "Marc Rich Center for the Study of Commodities, Trading and Financial Markets" and a "Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy and Strategy." The cosmetics magnate Ronald S. Lauder, who is a supporter of Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his far-right Likud Party, founded the Lauder school.
Lauder, president of the Jewish National Fund and former chairman of New York Governor George Pataki's Commission on Privatization, is the key individual who pushed the privatization of the WTC and former Stewart AFB, where the flight paths of the two planes that hit the twin towers oddly converged. Ronald Lauder played a significant, albeit unreported, role in the preparation for 9/11.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 16:08:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#39. To: All (#38)
More on Lauder...
From 9/11:Israel did it
Ronald Lauder - Billionaire Estée Lauder Cosmetics magnate. He was the chairman of NY Governor George Pataki's commission on privatization. He is the key individual who lobbied for the privatization of the WTC [12] -- but he was also instrumental in the successful privatisation of the former Stewart Air Force Base. Oddly, the flight paths of flight 175 and flight 11 converged directly over this airport. Map
Lauder is active in the following organizations:
Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations
Jewish National Fund
World Jewish Congress
American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee
Anti-Defamation League
Jewish Theological Seminary.
Lauder was elected president of the World Jewish Congress on 10 June, 2007.
Lauder founded a school for the Mossad in Herzliya, Israel called the Lauder School of Government Diplomacy and Strategy. He is arguably the key Sayan in the preparation of 9/11.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 16:11:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#40. To: FormerLurker, tom007 (#25)
tom007: I thought the salient fact was that one of the jets performance perimeters were entirely consistent with a 757 until shortly after it passed over a military base

FL: Might it be Stewart AFB?
9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base

That link doesn't work.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 18:02:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#41. To: Cynicom (#28)
Having been involved with lesser events with the government and military, over many years, I can safely say that, things get screwed up, people misspeak, misunderstand, and it takes great effort to untangle things.
Recall that no one of responsibility ever stood up and called a halt to the madness. It was a lowly FAA person that finally took the bull by the horns and ordered everyone down until it could be sorted out.
Cheney and Bush did nothing,none of their boot lickers did anything, the world was gone mad.
A peon stepped up, called a halt to everything.

What? Where did you get the impression that an FAA person ordered SCATANA implemented rather than the Military?
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 18:14:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#42. To: randge (#31)
Bush was hiding in Louisiana. That's for sure.
But the VP was useful to someone that morning.
Do you remember "Do the orders still stand Mr. Vice President?"

Useful for confusing the public into thinking that as VP he had authority to issue Defense orders but he didn't.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 18:20:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#43. To: FormerLurker (#21) (Edited)
I wonder how many other people would have gotten away with being caught with tons of explosives in a van on the George Washington Bridge on 9/11, or would have gotten away with blowing up a truck on King St. NYC that morning...

Three Comments at Why Were U.S. Intelligence Facilities in an 'Information Void' During the 9-11 Attacks:
1. *all* of the van bombers were *Israelis*.... not a single Arab or Muslim there. Hence the silence.
2. Perhaps by getting "caught" up front and then being summarily dismissed it would end any kind of speculation or investigation of whoever this faction is. You know how people say: "if their was a story there the press would do anything to go after it." So if the topic came up people would think: "oh, they looked into that early on and there was nothing there, otherwise why would they just let those people go."
3. FYI about murals on vans: I had a job in the automotive industry for a while. A friend with a fine arts degree from a top university was making good money painting murals on vans but the work dried up. I asked him why and he said that insurance companies won't cover expensive artwork on vans anymore. Just a little factoid: so you would have to be pretty motivated to put any artwork on a van, depending on how detailed it is.
Edited numbering sequence.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 18:36:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#44. To: GreyLmist (#43)
Guessing that the very least of the mossad's worries was the cost of the murals on the van.
(It was probably self-insured anyway.)
“The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out... without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane, intolerable.” ~ H. L. Mencken
Lod posted on 2012-09-25 18:48:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#45. To: Lod (#44)
Guessing that the very least of the mossad's worries was the cost of the murals on the van.
(It was probably self-insured anyway.)

It's almost like they wanted to get caught -- in-line with the 2nd comment:

Perhaps by getting "caught" up front and then being summarily dismissed it would end any kind of speculation or investigation of whoever this faction is. You know how people say: "if their was a story there the press would do anything to go after it." So if the topic came up people would think: "oh, they looked into that early on and there was nothing there, otherwise why would they just let those people go."

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 19:04:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#46. To: All (#40) (Edited)
Stewart Air Force Base [My note: Home of the 105th Airlift Wing, New York Air National Guard]

Stewart Air Force Base: 1940s, Orange County, Newburgh. Stewart International Airport is located almost entirely in the Town of New Windsor, Orange County, New York. The "Stewart Newburgh" designation used by the airlines is that the Stewart family gave the land to the City of Newburgh for a city airport in the 1930's. Stewart is named after Capt. Lachlan Stewart, who skippered schooners and other sailing vessels about 1850-1870. During World War II the City of Newburgh turned the airport over to the United States Government for the purposes of training West Point cadets to fly. The field grew and at the end of World War II it became Stewart Air Force Base. Stewart was used for North American Air Defense (Headquarters US Army Air Defense Command Region I) until 1972, when the Air Force determined that the base was excess, and deeded Stewart Air Force Base to the State of New York. See also SAGE for information on Air Defense Control Center, control for Suffolk BOMARCs. Now Stewart Army Sub Post of West Point, Stewart International Airport, and the New York Air National Guard has the largest C-5 Unit at Stewart. The Marine Corps also maintains a wing of C-130 aircraft at Stewart. The two military organizations occupy brand new state of the art military facilites. Stewart International Airport has 15,000 ft runway, the longest on the eastern seaboard.

Excerpts from Pilots For 9-11 Truth Forum > Stewart Afb

"At the end of the 20th century it became the first U.S. commercial airport to be privatized when United Kingdom-based National Express Group was awarded a 99-year lease on the airport."
Another Source Says:
"Stewart International Airport is the nation's first privatized commercial airport and operates under a 99-year lease agreement with the New York State Department of Transportation. National Express Group operates Stewart International Airport and is the United State's subsidiary of the National Express Group, PLC, in the United Kingdom."

Comment at the site: Who said another aircraft took off from Stewart? Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.
Unanswered Comment at the site: Something just occurred to me. Wasn't the pilot of Flight 175 asked to look to see if he could sight Flight 11? From what I remember, it was within the next few minutes that Flight 175 was "hijacked". Hmmmmm. Could there be something to that?
Edited for spelling at the bracketed insert of first Comment.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 19:18:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#47. To: GreyLmist (#41)
Where did you get the impression that an FAA person ordered SCATANA implemented rather than the Military?

Careful now, that YOU finger pointing is not nice.
Not a clue young man. Mental or written notes to satisfy others, would clutter up my mind.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 19:22:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#48. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000, All (#41)
After this young man, before pointing negative fingers, do a check on the subject.
Here is the mans name and the story.
ANYONE THAT HAD ANY INTEREST IN 911 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS GENTLEMAN FROM DAY ONE, NOT YEARS LATER.

"Man who grounded 4,000 planes on 9/11 was on first day of his job
As terrorists seized control of four airplanes on Sept. 11th, 2001, Ben Sliney, chief of air-traffic-control operations at the FAA's command center in Herndon, Va., gave the unprecedented order to ground 4,000-plus planes across the nation and redirect any in the sky to the nearest airport. It was his first day on the job.
On Sept. 11th, 2001, terrorists hijacked four American commercial jets with the intention of crashing them into the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, and the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C. The terrorists were successful in three of their four targets with the fourth plane's assault on the Capitol building was thwarted by heroic passengers on board. While we now know no other planes were hijacked, at the time, each of the 4,000-plus flights in American air space were potential risks.
But due to Ben Sliney, the Federal Aviation Administration's National Operations Manager on duty that fateful morning, possible harm, at least by the thinking at the time, was averted. Sliney made the gutsy — and completely unprecedented — call to ground every single commercial airplane in the country.
Man who grounded 4,000 planes on 9/11 was on first day of his jobWhat makes the call — which, without direct order from the President and the bureaucracy above him, was his and his alone to make — all the more gutsy is that Sept. 11th, 2001, was Ben Sliney's first day on the job as an FAA National Operations Manager.
Although that's not to say Sliney was some neophyte making a cowboy-like call. He had 25 years of experience in air traffic control as part of FAA management, including a leadership position at New York TRACON, which has responsibility over all air traffic for New York City's three major airports and the smaller, regional airports in the New York City area. But the decision to ground the planes — that was entirely Sliney's.
In fact, it's such a great story that when Universal Pictures decided to turn the heroism of the passengers of United Flight 93 into a movie, they not only didn't overlook Sliney's role — they asked him to play himself in the movie. Which he did.
Sliney's decision is a great testament to the belief that doing the right thing sometimes requires a risky choice. Sliney made the right one."
Cyni...

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 19:39:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#49. To: Cynicom (#47)
Careful now, that YOU finger pointing is not nice.

Don't be absurd. It was your posted impression of SCATANA implementation by an FAA "peon" (as you said) that was being questioned -- not someone else's and not "finger pointing".

Not a clue ~~young man~~. Mental or written notes to satisfy others, would clutter up my mind.

You not only expect (as Jews do similarly) to be exempt from direct questioning but now claim to be exempt above all others here from request for a reference, as if you shouldn't be bothered with "notes to satisfy others" regarding your baloney statement?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 19:49:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#50. To: tom007, GreyLMist, *9-11* (#18)
Thanks FL.There's a lot of material there. I thought the salient fact was that one of the jets performance perimeters were entirely consistent with a 757 until shortly after it passed over a military base, then it's performance became impossible for a 757 to perform. The "Magic Airplane" of our time, it would seem.

Might it be Stewart AFB?
9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base
Sorry about the bad link on the last try in post 25, this time the link should work.
PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's, not 757's. It was Flight 77 which allegedly struck the Pentagon which was a 757.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 20:01:11 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#51. To: GreyLmist (#40)
9/11 Flight Paths & Stewart Air Base
That link doesn't work.

Thanks for the heads up. Couldn't edit the original post since too much time has gone by, but I've reposted it in post 50.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 20:01:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#52. To: GreyLmist (#46)
Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.

It could have already been airborne with its transponder turned off.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 20:05:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#53. To: GreyLmist (#49)
My friend preceded Mr. Sliney from out of the NYC common IFR room and preceded him as a manager at the control center.
It was well known that it was he that took action, not VP Cheney. He risked everything, Cheney risked nothing.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 20:11:03 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#54. To: GreyLmist, All (#49)
regarding your baloney statement?

What say you now sir?????

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 20:13:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#55. To: Cynicom (#48)
ANYONE THAT HAD ANY INTEREST IN 911 SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS GENTLEMAN FROM DAY ONE ...

Maybe a video would be more convincing? See http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/295417-1

Phant2000 posted on 2012-09-25 20:20:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#56. To: Phant2000 (#55)
Thanks...
Friend of mine had that job a few years ago after I retired.
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
That is what we have here. There is no excuse for being obtuse about something when it is obvious to others that an enlightened background is missing.
Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 20:27:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#57. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.

Unfortunately its a human trait that just keeps giving ... giving me a headache.

Phant2000 posted on 2012-09-25 20:34:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#58. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.
That is what we have here. There is no excuse for being obtuse about something when it is obvious to others that an enlightened background is missing.
Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.

I love you C

But that post was marvelous nonsense.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 20:46:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#59. To: Cynicom (#56)
Many people are afraid of or are unable to recognize reality.

Good thing you and I can.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 20:47:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#60. To: Cynicom (#56)
Failure to avail oneself of what is available is basis for forming wrong opinions that defy gravity.

I've heard of Sliney and am reposting this article (which I linked here Dec. of last year) that mentions him:
Why the Planes Were Not Intercepted on 9-11 The Wall Street Lawyer and the Special Ops Hijack Coordinator

Benedict Sliney was an ATC in the US Air Force during the Vietnam War and, after that, worked at the FAA for the first half of his professional career. In the 1980s, Sliney went on from the FAA to work as an attorney and continued in that career throughout the 1990s. He worked for several law firms during this time, handling various kinds of cases, and he was a partner in some of those firms.
Sliney’s clients included financial investors who were accused of Securities and Exchange violations. In one 1998 case, he represented Steven K. Gourlay, Jr., an employee of Sterling Foster. It was reported that Sterling Foster was “secretly controlled” by Randolph Pace and was at the center of "one of the most notorious scams ever.”[5] Sliney got Gourlay’s charges dropped in 1998 but, in a related 2002 case, Gourlay pled guilty to conspiracy to commit securities fraud, mail fraud and wire fraud, and was sentenced to six months in prison.[6,7]
In the summer of 2000, Sliney represented Merrill Lynch in a case in which the delay of the transfer of clients’ funds to Smith Barney was said to have “caused their investments with Merrill, Lynch to lose some $638,000 in value.” Sliney was able to get Merrill Lynch off the hook.[8]
For whatever reasons, Sliney decided to leave his lucrative law career behind just months before 9/11 in order to return to the FAA. It was reported that Jack Kies, FAA’s manager of tactical operations, offered Sliney the job of Command Center national operations manager. Instead, Sliney asked to work as a specialist and he started in that role. Kies offered Sliney the national operations manager position again six months later and Sliney accepted.[9] His first day on the job was 9/11/01.
[sic]
Several of the FAA’s top people confirmed that the military was engaged and knew about the hijackings early on. This included Jeff Griffith at the Command Center and Monte Belger, the FAA’s acting Deputy Administrator, who was present at FAA Headquarters. Belger stated that -- “[T]here were military people on duty at the FAA Command Center, as Mr. Sliney said. They were participating in what was going on. There were military people in the FAA’s Air Traffic Organization in a situation room. They were participating in what was going on.”[13]
When a new, honest investigation is finally convened, it should look into why a lawyer, who knew how to handle evidence and get financiers off the hook, was experiencing his first day on the job as national operation manager at the FAA.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 21:08:47 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#61. To: GreyLmist (#60)
Several of the FAA’s top people confirmed that the military was engaged and knew about the hijackings early on.

I believe the Kene (sp) report supports this.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-25 21:18:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#62. To: GreyLmist (#60)
Grey, verbiage will not paper over rudeness and a lack of self enlightenment.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 21:51:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#63. To: Cynicom (#62)
Grey, verbiage will not paper over rudeness and a lack of self enlightenment.

Return to sender.
You are assisting in the propagation of myths that can jeopardize national security. Since 9/11, people have been conditioned to think there's nothing unusual about a VP hijacking control of our Military by issuing Defense orders - - or, as you've suggested, that they are lax if they don't; that the FAA has the power, if it so chooses, to scramble our Military fighter jets and bypass Military steps in order to enforce the wishes of whoever at the FAA; that someone like Sliney can overrule Military authority if they want to regarding SCATANA procedures.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 22:32:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#64. To: GreyLmist (#63)
Grey...
Again, rudeness and gross verbosity does not paper over the lack of intelligent discourse.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 22:33:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#65. To: tom007 (#61)
Thanks for your input, tom.
transcript 9-11 Commission Hearings for June 17, 2004 (washingtonpost.com)

General Eberhart: our SCATANA said, "Leave the nav aids on." Our SCATANA said, "FAA, you still control the traffic that's flying." Our SCATANA said, "Law enforcement and Flight For Life can continue to fly." We don't want to ground them during this terrible tragedy. And then procedures for getting waivers to fly.

History Commons -- SCATANA
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 22:39:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#66. To: Cynicom (#64)
Again, rudeness and gross verbosity does not paper over the lack of intelligent discourse.

Again, return to sender.
In other words, you have nothing but redundant and demeaning barbs in reply to the issue of jeopardizing national security with baseless myth conditioning.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 22:45:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#67. To: FormerLurker (#52) (Edited)
Again.. if a switch took place with an aircraft departing [Stewart].. that aircraft would have to have incredible power in order to climb and intercept at cruising speed directly over or near Stewart.

It could have already been airborne with its transponder turned off.

But transponder off wouldn't mean invisible until then, as you know.
Thanks for correcting the link.
Edited last sentence.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-25 22:53:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#68. To: GreyLmist (#66)
Grey...
I refuse to write you off as a hopeless case.
Open your mind, drop the personal negativity, there is a world of knowledge out there to be absorbed for free.
Example...Ten years after the fact, someone has to educate you with what everyone else has long known.
That is very telling and my last word until you open your mind, and LISTEN.
Cyni...

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-25 23:11:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#69. To: GreyLmist (#67)
But transponder off wouldn't mean invisible until then, as you know.

In terms of primary radar, blips can be merged tranparently by a lower altitude plane climbing from below radar altitude, while maintaining the same geographical position as the other aircraft. A swap could be made by both aircraft flying side by side momentarily, then the original aircraft descends at such a rate and airspeed to match the position of the upper aircraft, till it is below radar altitude.
It's probably one good reason why the FAA destroyed the statements of the controllers that day which may have included an observation that for a moment, the primary blip for Flight 77 and 175 got a little bigger.
But then again, if the transponders hadn't been turned off yet, would they had even been tracking them on primary radar at that point?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 23:19:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#70. To: GreyLmist, tom007, Cynicom, randge, All (#67)
In reference to the destroyed FAA tape...
F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements

WASHINGTON, May 6 — At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that same day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said in a report today.
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, where about 16 people met in a basement conference room known as "the Bat Cave" and passed around a microphone, each recalling his or her version of the events a few hours earlier.
But officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, and it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. official described in the report as a quality-assurance manager there. That manager crushed the cassette in his hand, shredded the tape and dropped the pieces into different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department.

"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-25 23:46:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#71. To: Cynicom (#68) (Edited)
Grey...
I refuse to write you off as a hopeless case.
Open your mind, drop the personal negativity, there is a world of knowledge out there to be absorbed for free.
Example...Ten years after the fact, someone has to educate you with what everyone else has long known.
That is very telling and my last word until you open your mind, and LISTEN.
Cyni...

I don't know what you're talking about. Sliney wasn't news to me. I reposted a link by me from last year with excerpts as evidence of that and for your perusal regarding your vague "peon" statement. Apparently, that abbreviated info was too much for you to absorb, like other research that conflicts much with the official and popular mantras. [Edit to add: You assessed it as "verbiage".] Perhaps you think that you should be exempt from studying the situation while directing others to do that -- Do as you say, not as you do. Drop your personal negativity. I could remove the word "baloney" at post #49 (in reply to your dismissive refusal of an explanatory reference at that point) and the issue of jeopardizing national security by misleading the public into conditioned mythos-acceptance of national security breaches at various levels would be the same. Evidently, you still have nothing to say about that other than to degrade my knowledge of this matter.
Edited for hyphenation, punctuation and bracketed insert.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 0:04:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#72. To: FormerLurker (#69)
But then again, if the transponders hadn't been turned off yet, would they had even been tracking them on primary radar at that point?

Good question.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 0:09:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#73. To: FormerLurker, *9-11* (#25)
PS: Flights 11 and 175 were 767's,

911Timeline.net - The Most Comprehensive Minute By Minute Timeline On 911

7) 7:45 a.m.: Mohammed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari board American Airlines Flight 11.
8) 7:59 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11 a Boeing 767-223ER with a maximum capacity of 181 passengers and 23,980 gallons of fuel, lifts off from Logan International Airport in Boston, Massachusetts, bound for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. Take-off was scheduled for 7:45.

I've learned the hard way that being at the airport to board by departure time wasn't early enough to be seated, due to the door being closed for pre-flight steps that had to be conducted prior to scheduled lift-off. Am wondering if the official story indicates that some sort of special boarding arrangement was made for the alleged hijackers.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 0:50:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#74. To: tom007 (#58)
But that post was marvelous nonsense.

I was taught civility, long ago.
The first example drummed into my thick head was this:
"Winston Churchill once said..."It costs me nothing to be civil to a man, even though I intend to hang him tomorrow".
ON this forum, I am very often labeled as dumb, stupid, ignorant and those are the kind and generous ones. At times posters use language that describes what they really think.
At the end of the day, I will have proven myself ignorant at best, but I did try to be civil doing it.
Did not cost me a cent.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 3:33:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#75. To: FormerLurker (#70)
No knowledge of this.
I do know years ago, people at the olde CAA had no protection from liability while doing their job as directed. Every word was taped, stamped, filed and stored. It finally took an act of Congress to relieve workers from liability. Anytime there was an event, lawyers descended like locusts, suing everyone in sight, the man at the bottom could end up penniless trying to protect himself.
Once the government accepted the legal burden, the lawyers looked elsewhere for money.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 3:50:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#76. To: Cynicom (#74) (Edited)
I did try to be civil doing it.

Malarkey. What you tried to do here in your responses to me is exempt yourself from civility with an autocratic double standard equating any attempt to debate you as finger-pointing, rudeness, verbiage, gross verbiage, lack of self- enlightenment and intelligent discourse, negativity and so on.
Edited for spelling.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 4:08:09 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#77. To: Cynicom (#74) (Edited)
I was taught civility, long ago.

And most of us find it salutary to actually practice important lessons we were taught.
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken
randge posted on 2012-09-26 6:40:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#78. To: GreyLmist, Cynicom (#76)
What you tried to do here in your responses to me is exempt yourself from civility with an autocratic double standard equating any attempt to debate you as finger-pointing, rudeness, verbiage, gross verbiage, lack of self- enlightenment and intelligent discourse, negativity and so on.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who knows he's full of shit. He pulls out the "civility" canard when he's had his ass handed to him on a plate an can no longer defend his position. Then he runs away.
Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown

I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT!
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2012-09-26 7:50:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#79. To: FormerLurker (#69)
In terms of primary radar, blips can be merged tranparently by a lower altitude plane climbing from below radar altitude, while maintaining the same geographical position as the other aircraft. A swap could be made by both aircraft flying side by side momentarily, then the original aircraft descends at such a rate and airspeed to match the position of the upper aircraft, till it is below radar altitude.

This tactic is well described in "Compromised" by Terry Reed (I think) detailing how drug shipments were dropped into the US by Barry Seal et al.
I asked an AF fighter pilot, my neighbor, if it would work, and he answered affirmative.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-26 9:03:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#80. To: FormerLurker (#70)
But officials at the center never told higher-ups of the tape's existence, and it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. official described in the report as a quality-assurance manager there. That manager crushed the cassette in his hand, shredded the tape and dropped the pieces into different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department

Yeh that's what I do with unimportant tapes that I know nobody will ever be interested and deal with unimportant issues.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-26 9:06:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#81. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#78)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who knows he's full of shit. He pulls out the "civility" canard when he's had his ass handed to him on a plate an can no longer defend his position. Then he runs away.

Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 9:35:59 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#82. To: Cynicom, F.A. Hayek Fan (#81)
Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful.

Because...they're not functioning well or they'd know better than to take a class in civility from you, Mr. Double Standards Autocrat?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 9:53:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#83. To: GreyLmist (#82)
Because...they're not functioning well or they'd know better than to take a class in civility from you, Mr. Double Standards Autocrat?

Fan would feel much better if he were a Fan of Salma Hayek.
She has a calming effect on men that are troubled.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 9:56:37 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#84. To: Cynicom (#81)
Perhaps my civility classes would be beneficial?????
People that do not function well in open society find such very helpful.

Cowards like to make see-through excuses and run away when they've been cornered instead of manning up and admitting they were wrong or admitting defeat or just outright saying that they no longer want to argue the issue.
You fool no one.
Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown

I WITHDRAW MY CONSENT!
Any perceived compliance with unconstitutional “laws” or orders put forth by government employees is NOT recognition of their authority; it is simply the result of carefully calculated submission to an entity exhibiting superior firepower.
F.A. Hayek Fan posted on 2012-09-26 10:27:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#85. To: Cynicom (#83)
The comments coming from so many on all the forums on the internet sure do lend insight to the whys and wherefores of this country's status.
So many attack when opinions differ, yet few offer up anything worth considering for solving today's problems. Insults and name calling come fast and furious, but too few have, can or will hold rational discussions.
There is so much to be learned from history as well as from the views and opinions of those we share space with on this earth. There is little to be gained from challenging the rights of others to differ.
Rational and respectful discussion can bring not only enlightening knowledge, but acceptable compromise. Irrational and disrespectful communication not only encourages silence, but also limits ideas, views and suggestions that could well lead to excellent solutions, not just mediocre attempts at "putting out fires".
I hope the day comes when the majority of people on this world show respect to others.

Phant2000 posted on 2012-09-26 10:45:07 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#86. To: F.A. Hayek Fan, All (#84)
Fan...
If you do not have affinity for Salma Hayek, we can never be friends.
Of course, if you are female, I could understand a dislike for Salma.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 11:31:29 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#87. To: Phant2000, Cynicom (#85)
I hope the day comes when the majority of people on this world show respect to others.

How to phrase this question for Cynicom without rankling him by using the word "you"...I'm gonna venture going with this: Is Kissinger an alumni of the Cynicom Class of Civility?
Henry Kissinger Says Luke Rudkowski Is A Sick Person for Questioning Him on NSM 200
video

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 11:38:35 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#88. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000 (#87)
Henry...
I recall in real time the appearance of this evil person.
Henry like von Mises, Hayeks and others were the offspring of the Rockefeller money.

Henry was a nobody,enlisted person in the military, suspected Russian spy with the code name of Bor. He was a nobody, going nowhere until Nelson Rockefeller bought and paid for him.
When Henry was turned loose into the political arena, Rockefeller gave him $50,000 cash to tide him over until a "position" was found for him.
Anyone that read his """best seller""""" Nuclear weapons and Foreign Policy"""" knew he was another Ayn Rand in the making.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 11:55:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#89. To: Cynicom (#88)
There is a picture of Kissinger eating his own boogers.
That's the least of his problems, the mass-murdering bastid.
I sense a disturbance in the farce. Much gnashing will ensue.
Turtle posted on 2012-09-26 12:00:02 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#90. To: Turtle (#89)
There is a picture of Kissinger eating his own boogers.

I recall that also.
A friend of mine referred to Henry as, "a dirty bag of money sitting in a chair".
Like Rand, Henry could babble on for hours and say nothing.
Another Rockefeller Jew lackey foisted upon the citizens of this country.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 12:06:28 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#91. To: Cynicom (#88)
suspected Russian spy with the code name of Bor.

That says something treasonous about G.W. Bush's selection of Kissinger to commandeer the 9/11 Commission.
9-11 Commission - Wikipedia

The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, also known as the 9/11 Commission, was set up on November 27, 2002, "to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11 attacks", including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks.
[sic]
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States was established on November 27, 2002, by President George W. Bush and the United States Congress, with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger initially appointed to head the commission.[2] However, Kissinger resigned only weeks after being appointed, because he would have been obliged to disclose the clients of his private consulting business.[3]

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 12:23:38 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#92. To: GreyLmist (#91)
Grey...
If you have time to waste, read Kissingers book. I read it when very young and came away with one thought in mind. What did he say and what in hell is he talking about.
Henry can babble on endlessly and say nothing.
Turtle reminded us of one of his bad habits, I seem to recall from somewhere in the past that Henry also had body odor.
I am gonna look up Salma Hayek and forget you and Fan even exist.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-26 12:40:00 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#93. To: Cynicom, All (#88)
... Nelson Rockefeller bought and paid for him.

I can vouch for the truth of the Rockefeller/Kissinger relationship ... like "up close and personal"!!!
Personal observation: Birds of a feather stick together ... and stink always follows stink!!!

Phant2000 posted on 2012-09-26 12:59:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#94. To: Cynicom (#92)
and forget you and Fan even exist.

Is that so? Well then, just don't go forgetting that in reality holograms do exist.
John Lear - 9/11 & Strategic Perception Management

Until we meet again here...
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 15:32:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#95. To: GreyLmist (#94)
Lear mixes truth with fiction. Those impacts at the WTC most certainly weren't holograms, and to my knowledge, holograms appear transparent, not as solid objects.
It would be especially difficult if not impossible for a hologram to be visible in bright daylight from miles away, and then there's the matter of the impact damage itself.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-26 15:44:27 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#96. To: FormerLurker, *9-11*, *No Planers* (#95)
to my knowledge, holograms appear transparent, not as solid objects.

CNN Shows Off Hologram Technology - Presidential Election 2008
Uploaded by ArchangelSandalphon on Nov 4, 2008
Jessica Yellin shows up on CNN New York from Chigago in a hologram

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 15:49:56 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#97. To: GreyLmist (#96)
What can be done in a darkened TV studio is not the same as what can be done in daylit skies over Manhatten, visible from tens of miles away.
That and I doubt that CNN video was made without a bit of video enhancement, yet the image is still fuzzy on the edges and appears two dimensional.
But the primary factor is that the image is stationary, it is not moving across miles of sky, and if anything, it appears fake. In other words, I question whether it was just a video superimposition rather than a bonafide hologram.
IF it were real, the technology required to project a hologram in a stationary location within a darkened studio isn't super sophisticated compared to what would be required for a daylight projection in the skies of Manhatten moving at a speed identical to that of an airliner.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-26 16:29:45 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#98. To: GreyLmist (#96)
One other thing GL, since when do you trust CNN to be giving you truthful information?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-26 16:37:30 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#99. To: FormerLurker (#98)
One other thing GL, since when do you trust CNN to be giving you truthful information?

Since when don't you trust CNN/MSM video on 9/11 imagery issues?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 17:02:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#100. To: FormerLurker (#97)
I know you dislike John Lear but give him a fair hearing through his History and Future of Television testimonial:
John Lear - Vanishing Planes & Holographs
Uploaded by graflok on May 29, 2008

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 17:16:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#101. To: GreyLmist (#99)
Since when don't you trust CNN/MSM video on 9/11 imagery issues?

Thing is, it wasn't just CNN which had live video from 9/11, it was all the other networks airing simultaneously, including international networks such as the BBC.
Besides, for the reasons mentioned it is pretty much impossible that the flight of the aircraft could be faked with a hologram.
It borders on science fiction, whereas the remote controlled plane theory isn't within that realm, it is actually quite possible and plausible.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-26 17:47:58 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#102. To: FormerLurker (#101)
Cross-referencing Post #59 at 4um Title: Let US start a thread on WHO Did 911
Excerpts:

Remote control could not ensure that a plane (civilian, military, or drone) wouldn't break apart outside of the buildings on impact (endangering people on the street, leaving contradictory evidence behind, and messing up the cover story for the destruction of the Towers) but CGI could.
EXERCISES INCLUDED MOCK TV NEWS REPORTS
It is known that simulated television news reports had been used in training exercises before 9/11. For example, a two-day exercise was held at Andrews Air Force Base, Maryland, in June 2001, called "Dark Winter," based on the scenario of a smallpox attack on the United States. This exercise, according to New York magazine, included "simulated news clips from an imaginary cable news network called NCN."

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 18:02:39 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#103. To: GreyLmist (#102) (Edited)
Remote control could not ensure that a plane (civilian, military, or drone) wouldn't break apart outside of the buildings on impact (endangering people on the street, leaving contradictory evidence behind, and messing up the cover story for the destruction of the Towers) but CGI could.

And the Starship Enterprise could have just blasted away with its phasers.
Thing is, a remote controlled missile (which the aircraft would have been) has a very damn good chance of hitting its target.
For CGI to have faked EVERYTHING seen on network TV, ALL of the on scene reporters and camera crews would had to have been in on the grand conspiracy, ALL of the first responders who witnessed the 2nd impact would had to have been in on it, and ALL of the NYC inhabitants who witnessed the event would had to have been in on it.
There is just WAY too much chance of something going wrong, where if people saw a blast without an aircraft striking the tower, it would have drawn INSTANT attention. Besides that, there would have been SOME video of that occuring, being that MANY people were recording the smoke coming from the North Tower by that point in time.
That's besides the fact all of the news stations would have had to simultaneously blend CGI into live video, and had the explosives go off in the towers at the precise time to make it appear the CGI aircraft actually impacted the South Tower at the correct moment.
Not only would thousands, if not tens of thousands of people been involved, the technical feasibilty of such a hoax is pretty farfetched. CGI is good these days, but not THAT good. There is no evidence of fakery in the live videos, although no planers HAVE faked their own later videos to "make their point".
Why do you keep falling back with this science fantasy scenario GL? Aren't actual documented facts and scientific evidence enough to prove 9/11 was an inside job, carried out with the help of the Mossad?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-26 20:15:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#104. To: GreyLmist (#102)
Besides GL, do you truly think that the news production teams, newscasters, reporters, and camera crews, along with firemen, police, and NYC inhabitants would have taken part in a false flag operation where thousands of people would have been killed?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-26 20:22:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#105. To: FormerLurker (#104)
Besides GL, do you truly think that the news production teams, newscasters, reporters, and camera crews, along with firemen, police, and NYC inhabitants would have taken part in a false flag operation where thousands of people would have been killed?

I do think that some would willingly participate in such a flase flag op, that some might have believed they were participating in a Military excercise and could have been sworn to secrecy about it as a national security necessity, and that most were probably swept into the operation believing it was actually happening, similar to the War of the Worlds broadcast.
You've probably seen CNN's staged newscast with Charles Jaco of the first war in Iraq. Syria is currently being similarly propagandized with fakery only worse.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 21:12:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#106. To: FormerLurker (#103) (Edited)
Thing is, a remote controlled missile (which the aircraft would have been) has a very damn good chance of hitting its target.

But in the post I replied to, you said remote control planes -- not missiles. The issue isn't about whether remote control missiles can hit their target. Surely they can with a high degree of accuracy but with more risk of error and discovery than CGI. I don't know which videos you're referring to as being faked by No Planers. Initially, there were about 40 videos that were in evidence and what's unusual is that there weren't many more if many people in the area were recording. I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished. No Planes research doesn't threaten investigations of 9/11 as an inside job carried out with the help of the Mossad, or controlled demolition determination.
Edited for grammar and bracketed insert.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 21:36:26 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#107. To: All (#106)
P.S. As a flase flag op, the perps would likely want a certain amount of visual evidence backed by the MSM to sell their war objectives, etc. What they wouldn't want is for it to be closely examined for flaws that point to them rather than their designated target of "Al Qaeda".
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-26 21:40:50 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#108. To: GreyLmist (#105)
I do think that some would willingly participate in such a flase flag op, that some might have believed they were participating in a Military excercise and could have been sworn to secrecy about it as a national security necessity, and that most were probably swept into the operation believing it was actually happening, similar to the War of the Worlds broadcast.

A HANDFUL might be plausible, if we were talking about some remote site out in North Dakota or something. BUT, we are not talking about North Dakota, we are talking about the World Trade Center in NYC, where not only were there hundreds if not thousands of first responders already on the scene when the 2nd plane hit, there were news crews with cameras rolling all over Manhatten, along with many private individuals.
So no, nobody could convince all those people to "go along", especially with the deaths of 3000 Americans that day. Anyone who would have been approached to do so would have spilled the beans, and the police would have arrested anyone canvassing them to "join the conspiracy".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 0:04:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#109. To: GreyLmist (#106) (Edited)
But in the post I replied to, you said remote control planes -- not missiles.
I explicity said aircraft that were USED as missiles. We DO have drone technology in case you've somehow been asleep for the past decade or so.
Surely they can with a high degree of accuracy but with more risk of error and discovery than CGI.
And I'm sure if Captain Kirk was in on this conspiracy, he could have fired phasers at the towers to make them collapse. That'd be a sure fire way to do it wouldn't it.
Thing is, not only would it have been impossible to hide such an blatent fabrication in real time in front of millions of people, it would be technically infeasible if not impossible to coordinate a real time explosion that would perfectly mimic an aircraft impact, and superimpose an imaginary aircraft into the video in sync across ALL television networks, from different viewpoints, distances, elevations, and with helicopters flying in the vicinity recording the live events.
The debris ejected from the tower is ALSO consistant with an aircraft impact, so what do you think they did, had explosives with debris installed inside the building around the perimeter walls where people were sitting and working?
Demolition charges between floors or in the elevator shafts is one thing, but placing them on the outside or inside the perimeter in order to mimic an aircraft impact is something altogether different.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 0:14:18 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#110. To: GreyLmist (#106)
I don't know which videos you're referring to as being faked by No Planers.

Yeah OK GL. We had discussed the "Smoke and Mirrors" video in length on the last 9/11 thread. It was blatently obvious that the video was a collection of fraudulent clips which were actually doctored from the original CBS live video.
THAT is what I mean by faked video, and you should know that. It doesn't sit well with me that you pretend not to know what I'm talking about here. It's quite obvious that "no planers" view it as their "smoking gun" where in reality it's an obvious fake designed to propel their theory into the limelight.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 0:18:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#111. To: GreyLmist (#106) (Edited)
I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.

Are you high? "Little to no smoke damage"? Are you trying to say there were no fires at all, and THAT was faked too?
Do you truly believe what you write?
As far as WTC 1, WTF are you talking about in terms of "insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles"? Are you trying to say neither building really collapsed now, that was fake too?
In your mind, did the WTC towers ever exist at all?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 0:22:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#112. To: GreyLmist (#106)
Just so that we can all grasp exactly what it is you DO believe in, care to tell me what part of the WTC attacks you believe did NOT happen?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 0:24:53 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#113. To: FormerLurker (#109) (Edited)
Me: But in the post I replied to, you said remote control planes -- not missiles.
FL: I explicity said aircraft that were USED as missiles. We DO have drone technology in case you've somehow been asleep for the past decade or so.

FL at Post #101: It borders on science fiction, whereas the remote controlled plane theory isn't within that realm, it is actually quite possible and plausible.
Me at Post #102: Remote control could not ensure that a plane (civilian, military, or drone) wouldn't break apart outside of the buildings on impact (endangering people on the street, leaving contradictory evidence behind, and messing up the cover story for the destruction of the Towers) but CGI could.
FL at Post #103: Thing is, a remote controlled missile (which the aircraft would have been) has a very damn good chance of hitting its target.
Me at Post #106: But in the post I replied to [note: #101], you said remote control planes -- not missiles. The issue isn't about whether remote control missiles can hit their target. Surely they can with a high degree of accuracy but with more risk of error and discovery than CGI.
FL at Post #109: I explicity said aircraft that were USED as missiles. We DO have drone technology in case you've somehow been asleep for the past decade or so.
----------
I already addressed the issue of drones in Post #102, as well as civilian and military aircraft:
Remote control could not ensure that a plane (civilian, military, or drone) wouldn't break apart outside of the buildings on impact (endangering people on the street, leaving contradictory evidence behind, and messing up the cover story for the destruction of the Towers) but CGI could.

Edited for spelling.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-28 2:12:08 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#114. To: FormerLurker (#110)
Me: I don't know which videos you're referring to as being faked by No Planers.
FL: Yeah OK GL. We had discussed the "Smoke and Mirrors" video in length on the last 9/11 thread. It was blatently obvious that the video was a collection of fraudulent clips which were actually doctored from the original CBS live video.
THAT is what I mean by faked video, and you should know that. It doesn't sit well with me that you pretend not to know what I'm talking about here. It's quite obvious that "no planers" view it as their "smoking gun" where in reality it's an obvious fake designed to propel their theory into the limelight.

It doesn't sit well with me that you pretend not to know that video was a Media alteration. I thought you finally understood that the last time we discussed it.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-28 2:23:23 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#115. To: FormerLurker (#112) (Edited)
Just so that we can all grasp exactly what it is you DO believe in, care to tell me what part of the WTC attacks you believe did NOT happen?

You were requested in one sentence to explain what I've asked you about more than once before and you still haven't:

Post #106, Me to FL: I've spent a lot of time addressing your concerns and would like to hear your explanation for why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.

Instead of an answer, you made 5 posts ridiculing mine and interrogating me but can't even keep track of your own sequentially. So, I don't care to tell you anything else. I don't claim to have all the answers. You do. You believe remote control technology was used because it existed at the time and Zakheim would somehow profit more in war contracts if it was wasted in plane crash demonstrations on 9/11. You don't believe hologram technology was used even though it existed at the time and for decades prior. You call that the realm of science fiction. That's not been integral to the No Planes investigations anyway. I'm not sure what else you think -- that drone operators did it from Israel? 9/11 was War on America. Obviously, [Edit: the perps] involved in whatever roles here weren't thinking in terms of New Yorkers or any other Americans as "their people" but enemy "collateral damage". You seem to forget that what was seen at first was simply an image that looked like a plane going behind a building and then an explosion. You seem to want your version of what you believe happened to be in the realm of Holocaust Denial if there's any dissent. That's your gatekeeper problem, not mine.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-28 3:19:40 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#116. To: GreyLmist (#113)
Remote control could not ensure that a plane (civilian, military, or drone) wouldn't break apart outside of the buildings on impact (endangering people on the street, leaving contradictory evidence behind, and messing up the cover story for the destruction of the Towers) but CGI could.

And perfect insurance was the order of the day.

Police / FBI / mossad fakes , clear a street... plant evidence, leave on lookers return to a no longer blocked off street. .. real police and agents take over from there....
This is not an un logical operation... I fail to see how folks like lurker can not get it.. unless it really was to much propaganda in one concentrated dose. Which is what I suspect.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-28 6:35:51 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#117. To: titorite, FormerLurker (#116) (Edited)
There were Art Students in-residence at the WTC in the strike- zone in the months leading up to the attacks -- lived there, day and night. Entire floors were empty in the Towers that they had access to and could have rigged. They even removed a window for their balcony stunt that involved a helicopter, which I suspect might have been a rehearsal for getting out and getting away under cover of the smoke effects on 9/11 but that plan may have been discarded as too risky. I dunno but someone who claims to want to round up who did it for prosecutions, yet thinks nothing of any of that and would rather argue about No Planers -- it tells me they aren't really serious.
Edited for spelling.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-28 7:18:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#118. To: GreyLmist (#114)
It doesn't sit well with me that you pretend not to know that video was a Media alteration. I thought you finally understood that the last time we discussed it.

The author of the video, and titorite were trying to pass it off as original footage from the morning of 9/11. You were playing the "media made it" angle, yet you say there's some ORIGINAL video which shows the same thing, or similar "abnormalities". That is pure BS.
This is getting tiring, and I have better things to do with my time than to play this game for another 7 days straight.
Is it your mission in life to bog down every 9/11 discussion with this crap?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 8:34:57 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#119. To: FormerLurker (#118)
No, I said it was a Media alteration -- about umpteen times -- and that there are smoke anomalies in other MSM videos. The poster of the video stated in the Description section that it was posted as it was found. I linked to the webarchived-site where it was found for comparison, as well as the NIST video of the PBS documentary that the Smoke and Mirrors video referenced. titorite simply submitted it here as a smoke anomaly and didn't know the details about it. You are bogging down discussions by having to repeat things over and over and it still doesn't get through to you or doesn't stick with you. I do think this is a game for you and I have better things to do too.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-28 9:04:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#120. To: GreyLmist, FormerLurker (#119)
I still maintain it was all flying telephone poles.
During the Viet thing, I had friends flying B-52s over North Vietnam. They could see the SAMS being fired off both visually and on ground scanning radar.
They attached the name of telephone poles because that is what they looked like.
Carry on.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-28 9:21:55 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#121. To: GreyLmist, titorite (#119) (Edited)
No, I said it was a Media alteration -- about umpteen times -- and that there are smoke anomalies in other MSM videos. The poster of the video stated in the Description section that it was posted as it was found.
But the author of the Smoke & Mirrors video presents it as if it were actual live footage. In terms of the description on YouTube, the uploader said he obtained it from the terrorist.dk site which is no longer online. In reality, the terrorist.dk site video was from Detroit Public TV. The author of the terrorist.dk site analyzed it and demonstrated how the video had been doctored to make it appear that the plane came out of nowhere, as well as asking why the smoke plumes were doctored, wondering why the REAL footage wasn't impressive enough.
So the author of the "Smoke and Mirrors" video was fraudulently claiming that the Detroit Public TV video was actual live footage, even though the site he claimed to have obtained it from was explicity speaking about how it was DOCTORED footage. The "Smoke & Mirrors" author was even disingenious enough to include the ORIGINAL CBS footage at the end of his video, claiming it was DIFFERENT footage than what he had just spent the rest of his time "analyzing", where in fact it was the source of what he had just got done "analyzing".
Yep, "Smoke & Mirrors" was certainly an appropriate choice of names for his video, where HE'S the one trying to pull a fast one on his audience. Apparently it's suckered in titorite and yourself.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 15:45:34 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#122. To: GreyLmist (#119)
You are bogging down discussions by having to repeat things over and over and it still doesn't get through to you or doesn't stick with you. I do think this is a game for you and I have better things to do too.

To me at least, someone who constantly posts disproven BS as if it were going to become true if it's repeated often enough, is doing more than just "bogging down" a thread.
It's more like disrupting the discussion with ridiculous fiction which has no basis in fact.
I'd say the chances of your "no plane" theory being true are 0%. I wouldn't even give it a fractional percentage.
You're ignoring the improbablities and impossibilities, and hopping on things which aren't even there to begin with.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
FormerLurker posted on 2012-09-28 15:50:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#123. To: FormerLurker (#121) (Edited)
Um no you just lie about what is right in front of your face because you dislike what you see.

I mean that planes comes in from UP high, from down low, from a strait horizontal shot , and still you sing and dance and pretend

Edited for civility.
____________________________________________________________ . . . The US government has declared civil war on itself. Its lust for war grew so great... Liberty before death. We run , we live, We fight again, till we win. We did not start this fight. We damn sure did not willingly pay our taxes to buy the bullets and drones that shall be used to kill us. We will correct the violations of this rogue nation....our rogue nation. We will fix this because nobody else can. You will work to help me help us all to fix this failure. After you're done educating yourself, Action!!!
titorite posted on 2012-09-28 22:43:01 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#124. To: FormerLurker, All, , *9-11*, *No Planers* (#122)
more than just "bogging down" a thread.
It's more like disrupting the discussion

As a convenience and PC-functionality courtesy, please use this link for any continuing discussions on the Smoke and Mirrors videos-controversy topic.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-29 1:40:36 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#125. To: FormerLurker (#122) (Edited)
To me at least, someone who constantly posts disproven BS as if it were going to become true if it's repeated often enough, is doing more than just "bogging down" a thread.
It's more like disrupting the discussion with ridiculous fiction which has no basis in fact.
I'd say the chances of your "no plane" theory being true are 0%. I wouldn't even give it a fractional percentage.
You're ignoring the improbablities and impossibilities, and hopping on things which aren't even there to begin with.

No comment on your opening two paragraphs other than they read somewhat differently with that 2nd comma in the 1st than you probably intended.
After 11 years, the remote control theory still has Zero actual evidence supporting it -- just speculation. You might disagree with No Planes analyses but, like it or not, it is checkable evidence submitted for open review.
As for disrupting the discussion, I posted a link to more effeciently address your concerns on the video subject that you inserted here as a rerun, so as not to bog down this thread with that as an off-topic distraction. This is a list of the issues that I've posted about here, which I think are more topically relevant but that you didn't choose to comment on, as you have so about No Planers:
1. The confusion noted in the opening video over Cape TRACON's ability to contact Otis AFB when Cape TRACON is Otis AFB.
2. SCATANA procedures
3. Non-authority of Vice Presidents to issue Defense orders
4. The Israeli vans issues
5. The propagation of 9/11 myths that can jeopardize national security
6. Post #73 on the boarding time of alleged hijackers of alleged Flt. 11 being the same as the scheduled take-off time and the possibility that the official story indicates that some sort of special arrangements were made to accomodate seating them.
7. G.W. Bush treasonsously appointing suspected Russian spy, Henry Kissinger, to commandeer the 9/11 Commission.
8. Another request for your explanation as to why there was little to no smoke damage at the WTC [Towers and Bldg. 7 too] as well as how WTC 1 was insignificantly impacted by flying projectiles when WTC 2 was demolished.
9. Art Students in-residence at the WTC in the strike-zone during the months leading up to 9/11 attacks.
On the issue you mentioned at Post #70 in reference to the destroyed FAA tape, I find it hard to believe that the pieces were dropped into different trash cans around the building if the intent was really to destroy the tape without trace-evidence of its contents. Just my opinion. If you'd like to select a topic from the above list to talk about or would like to discuss something else relevant to the Pilot's for 9/11 Truth subject of this thread, fine by me. Also fine by me if you don't want to chat again about anything else here.
Edited to expand the numbered list.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-29 3:17:21 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#126. To: Phant2000 (#85)
Rational and respectful discussion can bring not only enlightening knowledge, but acceptable compromise. Irrational and disrespectful communication not only encourages silence, but also limits ideas, views and suggestions that could well lead to excellent solutions, not just mediocre attempts at "putting out fires".
I hope the day comes when the majority of people on this world show respect to others.

What in the hell is the matter with you?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
tom007 posted on 2012-09-29 9:51:33 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#127. To: tom007 (#126)
What in the hell is the matter with you?

I live in a bubble!!!

Phant2000 posted on 2012-09-30 7:33:19 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#128. To: Phant2000 (#127)
I was taught at a young age, keep my mouth shut and my ears open and I MIGHT learn something.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 8:54:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#129. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#120)
I still maintain it was all flying telephone poles.
During the Viet thing, I had friends flying B-52s over North Vietnam. They could see the SAMS being fired off both visually and on ground scanning radar.
They attached the name of telephone poles because that is what they looked like.
Carry on.

I was surprised to find a godlikeproductions post today from a Canadian who seems to sort of agree with you but thinks they were British cruise missiles. Am going to post an abbreviated version of it here (and some related info in another post) but first I want to set this link for the thread's 9/11: INTERCEPTED video by Pilots for 9/11 Truth to start at 22:25, which says:

"Say again where you want 'em?"
"Uh, we want 'em in the Whiskey 386 area."

Excerpt from: www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1978389/pg1#33334085
User ID: 23403601 Canada 09/10/2012 06:49 PM
Whereas the US NAvy loads, paints and maintains the cruise missiles for the US Navy, after becoming Prime Minister, of Britain, Tony Blair, despite being a "socialist", hence against privatisation, contracted out the maintenance, including painting of Britain's nuclear subs, their cruise missiels (the same as the USA ones) and their fire control systems to... Kellogg, Brown and Root, a subsidiaruy of Halliburton. As each missile resides in a separate silo onboard, no sailor, not even the captain would have seen what his own missiles would have looked like in terms of paintwork once loaded by KBR. in terms of fire control, it would have been easy for KBR to have had a technitian replace a circuit board or two to allow the cruise missiles to be electronically hijacked and for the fire control systems to report that the missiles on a test launch had been destroyed rather than flying on to the Eastern Seaboard of the USA.
The next question is one of how missiles actually beat the US Radar defence systems to hit the Pentagon which is supremely defended. The answer lies in the Falklands War. During this, the Exocet and no other Argentine missile did catastrophic damage to the British fleet. The reason for this was revealed at the time. NATO planners long ago realized that a NATO/WARSAW PACT sea battle would last seconds due to the staggering destructive firepower. Radar and missile technicians would have split seconds to respond, so in order to simplify NATO radar systems, a new standard was adopted in which NATO radar systems, including those of the Pentgon, only show…
- potential enemy missiles and aircraft
- your own country’s missiles and aircraft
- civilian and neutral country missiles asd aircraft.

In short, NATO systems as blind to missiles and aircraft belonging to missiles and aircraft of your allies. Hence, a cruise missile launched from a British or French sub would be ENTIRELY INVISIBLE to all of the Pentagon’s radar systems. However, not all systems meet this code and indeed, the base scrambling the jets to head to Whiskey 386 patch of ocean were still fitted with OLD equipment wupon which such missiles would have been clear.
So who had the access to these Norad systems? Not just the USA, but also her allies, such as Britain who had contracted their own work out to…KBR, the subsidiary of Halliburton.
So, where do British subs test fire their missiles? At a place in the atlantic called… Whiskey 386. So were there any British subs in the region? Records on line that I have seen, submitted by one peace grouop in the UK clearly established that HMS Trafalgar left port in the UK on 1st September 2001 to travel via the Americas to the Far East which would have put it in Whiskey 386 or so on 11th September 2001. This peace group who incidentally have nothing to do with the 9/11 movement, established that when HMS Trafalgar reached port in the Far East, her inventory of cruise missiles were down by EIGHT,, indicating a test firing in Whiskey 386 of 8 Cruise missiles on about 11th September 2001. Had this occurred, and they been compromised and electronically hijacked without the sub knowing, they could have been flown straight to the Pentagon and the WTC without a glitch on any NATO radar.
Finally, how did they get a dunce like George W Bush to lie? Simple. he didn't. What he said was LITERALLY TRUE, but open to the wrong interprestation, for the WTC WAS hit by hijacked aircraft, but not jetliners, British cruise missiles.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 11:22:42 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#130. To: GreyLmist (#129)
Grey...
I give you an A+ for tenacity.
Also yall been discussing smoke etc at NYC.
There is a photo taken by an astronaut from space station that shows the smoke plume.
Perhaps you have seen it?

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 11:39:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#131. To: All, *9-11* (#129) (Edited)
Whiskey 386

amazon.com: The Untold Story of the Drama That Unfolded in the Skies over America on 9/11 by Lynn Spencer

2 results for Whiskey 386
Page 149: They appear to be flying to military training area Whiskey 386.
Page 151: They're in [Whiskey] 386 and going up north, Foxy responds.

Excerpts from historycommons.org | Fleet Area Control and Surveillance Facility (FACSFAC VACAPES) was a participant or observer in the following events:

9:34 a.m. September 11, 2001: NEADS Notices Langley Jets Are off Course, but Navy Controller Seems Unconcerned
Jets Heading to Training Airspace - Huckabone has spotted the radar returns for the Langley F-16s and notices that, instead of flying north toward the Baltimore area as instructed, the fighters are going east, out over the Atlantic Ocean, apparently toward a military training airspace called Whiskey 386 (see 9:30 a.m.-9:37 a.m. September 11, 2001).
Navy Controller Unconcerned - Citino and Huckabone speak to the Navy air traffic controller who is handling the three Langley fighters, but the controller appears not to grasp the urgency of the situation. Huckabone says, “Those fighters need to go north toward Baltimore, and now!” The Navy controller asks: “You’ve got [the Langley F-16s] moving east in airspace. Now you want ‘em to go to Baltimore?” Huckabone says yes, and adds, “We’re not gonna take ‘em in Whiskey 386.”
Edit to add another excerpt from the historycommons.org page:
(10:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001: Boston Center Controller Notices Unidentified Aircraft Approaching from East
An air traffic controller at the FAA’s Boston Center is concerned about an unidentified aircraft flying in from the east, approaching Cape Cod. Colin Scoggins, the military liaison at the Boston Center in Nashua, New Hampshire, has noticed the large, slow-moving target on his radar screen. It is just off the coast and heading directly for Boston. Concerned as to what the aircraft is, he phones the Fleet Area Control and Surveillance Facility in Virginia Beach, Virginia. [Spencer, 2008, pp. 242] The facility, known by its call sign, “Giant Killer,” is the Navy air traffic control agency that handles all over-water military operations. [New York Times, 2/10/1997; Spencer, 2008, pp. 143] Scoggins says: “We have a large, slow-moving target approaching Cape Cod and heading for Boston. Do you have it? What is it?” The person at Giant Killer only replies, “We’re looking,” and then mentions, “We’ve got a fleet of ships heading toward the northeast and an Aegis cruiser [a high-tech warship] on the way.” Scoggins is worried that Giant Killer is unable to specifically identify the target he is seeing on his radar screen. It appears to be flying straight toward the Boston Center. He thinks to himself, “If I wanted to use airliners to attack a country, I would take out their air traffic control facilities!” Scoggins continues watching the suspicious aircraft on his radar screen. Shortly afterward, the Boston Center will be evacuated after the FAA’s New England regional office calls it and reports an unidentified aircraft heading toward the facility (see (Shortly After 10:20 a.m.) September 11, 2001). [Spencer, 2008, pp. 242-243] This is apparently a different aircraft to the one Scoggins is tracking. [Federal Aviation Administration, 9/20/2001; Federal Aviation Administration, 3/21/2002 ] Whether the plane Scoggins is tracking is ever identified is unclear.

Edited for formatting and to include the historycommons section at 10:20 a.m.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 12:04:43 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#132. To: Cynicom (#130)
yall been discussing smoke etc at NYC.
There is a photo taken by an astronaut from space station that shows the smoke plume.
Perhaps you have seen it?

Can you post a link for it?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 12:08:52 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#133. To: GreyLmist (#132)
Can you post a link for it?

Good heavens, no.
It has been on internet for years.
If I can find it will send along.
If I recall was by American astronaut.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 12:17:48 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#134. To: Cynicom (#133)
If I can find it will send along.

Ok, that would be swell.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 12:52:25 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#135. To: Cynicom (#130) (Edited)
So, what's your opinion of the radar info and such in the godlikeproductions post [Edit to add: at #129]?
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 12:58:20 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#136. To: GreyLmist (#135)
Grey...
Several can be found here.
Should charge you.
images.search.yahoo.com/i...r2d6th&.crumb=kqrva0lOWXM

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 13:00:44 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#137. To: Cynicom, *9-11* (#136)
Several can be found here.
Should charge you.
images.search.yahoo.com-i...r2d6th&.crumb=kqrva0lOWXM

Interesting but maybe I should charge you too for the insepections -- per slide. There's a bunch scattered about there and the smoke is like all over the map, as they say. This one looks like the space station took it from the ground looking up:

Pic link: World Trade Center-911-View from space station
All those projectiles flying at WTC 1 and nary a scratch on it! When I see films like that and the clips below at 1:27 and 6:30, I wonder why it even fell at all, durable as it was:
WCBS 9/11 9:50 - 10:00

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 13:40:24 ET (1 image) Reply Trace Private Reply
#138. To: GreyLmist (#137)
The space shot is within the ground photos display.
Hereafter all urls are fifty cents.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 13:46:31 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#139. To: Cynicom (#138) (Edited)
The space shot is within the ground photos display.
Hereafter all urls are fifty cents.

Too pricey for me. I saw many space shots there. The one I posted [Edit to add: at #137] was #32 -- 31 clicks to the right from the first and the caption said: World Trade Center-911- View from space station:

images.search.yahoo.com- i...r2d6th&.crumb=kqrva0lOWXM

If you'd care to freely give your assessment of the radar info and such that I asked about at Post #135 regarding the godlikeproductions posting at #129, I'd be interested in hearing it.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 16:09:41 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#140. To: GreyLmist (#139)
If you'd care to freely give your assessment of the radar info and such that I asked about at Post #135 regarding the godlikeproductions posting at #129, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Grey...
Bet you think I could be taken snipe hunting voluntarily????

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 18:20:46 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#141. To: Cynicom (#140)
Bet you think I could be taken snipe hunting voluntarily????

No, I really wanted your input on it as a flyer, not a hunting sniper.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 20:33:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#142. To: GreyLmist (#141)
You ever been snipe hunting?.
Most states have open seasons on snipes.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 20:53:24 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#143. To: Cynicom (#142) (Edited)
No, I haven't. If you were thinking about going snipe hunting and would rather not evaluate the radar posting at #129, no problem. Suit yourself.
Edited for grammar.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 21:26:04 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#144. To: GreyLmist (#143)
Suit yourself.

I was in the radar antique days, would never attempt to second guess something I am not qualified to do.
We had the first IFF transponders which were very crude, compared to today.
Second guessing the people on duty at the time is wading in deep water.

Cynicom posted on 2012-09-30 21:51:10 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
#145. To: Cynicom (#144)
I'd never heard of a British cruise missile theory about 9/11, so thought it would be best to run the "allied" stealth readings by your radar bearings to see what you thought of it. Believe it or not, that was a time that I would have been glad to see one your "Nonsense" remarks.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
GreyLmist posted on 2012-09-30 23:30:54 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
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